Has anybody had a NDE and if so, how has it changed your religious life?

-- Ellen K. Hornby (dkh@canada.com), November 30, 1999

Answers

Ellen, would you please explain what is a NDE?

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), December 01, 1999.

An NDE is a Near Death Experience.

There are lots of explanations for the phenomena associated with them, ranging from the usual glimpes of God/Heaven/Afterlife ones to more sceptical material explanations such as massive releases of neuro-transmitters and bursts of bio-electrical energy(nervous system) that occur when our bodies are subjected to very near-fatal injury.

I have not had one luckily, but I hope I have clarified Ellen's question.

Knowing my luck, she is probably referring to something else...

Regards

-- Matthew (matthewpope@aol.com), December 01, 1999.

I am surprised that Ellen would ask such a question, since this is a Catholic forum, nothing else..(according to her). Ellen, what does this have to do with Catholics? (Not being sarcastic, just curious)

-- Yolanda Duarte (yondelac@nmda-bubba.nmsu.edu), December 03, 1999.

I for one am not all surprised at Ellen's question as I myself have experienced and NDE on December 17th 1992. I had attempted suicide via Rx overdose. Went into a coma for three full days awakening on the third. All life units had been turned off and I flat-lined five times.

Upon awakening at one point I felt a warmth like a trikleof light electicity on my left should which ran through my body and out my feet. SNAP SNAP and I felt totally relaxed and knew Ihad been forgiven.

A male voice gently said to me " Do good things. " I turned to my left and saw five globes of light which emmited a soft glow on my eyes. I have never been the same since and have never looked back.

Recently I finished a Pastoral Councilling Course and will in January of 2000 begin to work in that same hospital in the same psyche ward. God is more then good He is all loving and all gentle.

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), December 04, 1999.

Doesn't anything that happens to one of our brothers and sisters be of concern to believers? Then it seems to me that if Ellen asks a question like the one she posted she is only showing her concern for her neighbours and she is along Gospel's lines. Good for you Ellen.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), December 05, 1999.

Enrique - What I like about you is you show a heart. You are a good man and must be loved by many. +Peace+

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), December 05, 1999.

Thank you Matthew for clearing up what a NDE is. Yolanda, I am interested in a lot of things, NDE's being one of them. I'm Catholic and there have been a lot of Catholics who have experienced NDE's and I just wondered how it affected them religiously and spiritually. I am very curious as to what heaven is like or could be like other than the usual picture that is painted. Also, I guess I'm more curious because my very best friend died and since then, there have been a lot of weird things happening around here. Also, when I was 6, I had an inner ear operation and remember a funnel shape and the awful noise it made while I was supposed to be under sedation. I am not afraid of tornadoes or anything, but that similar shaped thing has haunted me for years. Anything I've read about NDE's suggests that when the people involved return to their daily lives, they're changed for the better and their lives no longer revolve around the materialistic side of life. Maybe, I'm just jealous of their newfound ability while I'm still battling the old grind. At any rate, since NDE's affect all races and religions around the world, I was just wondering if any Catholics here had anything to say. Thanks Jean for your input. Ellen

-- Ellen K. Hornby (dkh@canada.com), December 05, 1999.

This is more an observation than an answer. I think that Ellen is doing something very commendable which I would call searching deeper than the surface of this materialistic society. NDE's in fact overlaps into the spiritual / supernatural realm and matured individuals ultimately realise that the buzz / happenings in society are not sufficient in keeping them maticulously interested / occupied during their stay on earth. There are many adults who go through their entire lives not making the shift from physical things to spiritual things. Human beings are spirits occupying a body, the body dies but the spirit lives on. The question is: since our identity and personalities eminates from our spirits rather than our bodies, are we making provision for spirits when the body ceases to live? All the preparations and securities we indulge or engage with here on earth are to provide for the body BUT what are we doing for the spirit? Will we face a dalemma when are bodies finally die and the our spirits are left destitute in the universe? Question: Why is it that spirits always seek to possess / occupy a body? Is it that they are destitute when they are outside of a body?

I have an experience (not a NDE but one where supernatural intervention was experienced in my life). A few years ago I suffered domestic dalemma and found that the support sysem that the state / society offered was not sufficient to console me during the tormenting state I found myself in. This was when I persued becoming a Christian (the born again type). Long story short: Six months later I became weak in my faith and experienced some negative thoughts where I for a while during one morning entertained the thought of quitting my christian walk. Just then in my room while I was wide awake, lying on my back, a loud voice from the lord sounded in my room saying, "I WILL COME AGAIN!". This voice although it was loud and penetrated my body that I could feel the vibrations of it on my chest, strange, but I think that had anybody else been in the room they might not have hear it. I was immediately up against my head board screaming back at the Lord, "sorry Jesus, sorrry Jesus..." repeatedly in tears. This I did without thinking, it was a spontaneous response. I was weeping profusely while screaming. Experiencing a combination of fear and ungratfulness at God love for me. I later realisted that God had not only spoken those words to me but He also strongly convicted me of my ungratfulness.

Do with this info what you like. May your search be fruitful. May you be found walking this earth with God agenda (not yours/ not a politicians / not your parent's / not necessarily your church's BUT Gods) READ YOUR BIBLE!!

Christianity holds the truth, the truth is not negotiable. Trust it and it will give you righteousness, peace and joy.

This experience caused me to live out my Christian experience with conviction, knowing that I have the truth.

-- gavin adams (ggadams@pawc.wcape.gov.za), January 30, 2001.

Well, I don't know if this counts as an NDE, because I wasn't hurt at all, but I was in a one-car roll over accident with my family. We all survived with minor injuries. I didn't see a bright light or anything like that, but the accident showed me how precious life was. Everything that I saw after the accident, I would not have seen if I had died then. Everything person I met I would not have met. Oh, and also, I almost choked to death on a glob of pizza cheese when I was 8, but my dad did the Heimlich maneuver on me. I'm afraid there weren't any major spiritual revelations, and I am definitely still too concerned with the material side of life. Ellen, I don't think you have to regret not having had an NDE. SUre, they can really inspire you, but you can find inspiration elsewhere. Everyone has to do that (we can be nearly dying all the time) because whatever emotions are awakened by the NDE will fade in time if we do not continually strive to be close to God.

-Hannah

-- Hannah (archiegoodwin_and_nerowolfe@hotmail.com), January 30, 2001.

SEEK GOD's FACE !

-- SSM (non-catholic follower of Jesus Christ) (heartwjesus@yahoo.com), January 30, 2001.

Dear Friends,
A few years ago in San Diego I attended a Lenten Mission series, given our parish by a very good Passionist priest, Father Tobin. A man of extraordinary charisma, he was terrific; if he is ever in your neighborhoods, don't miss him.

He told us all that he'd experienced a near-death experience, and didn't elaborate much on it. Later, I asked him about it in private. ''Lights, beautiful lights, I saw them and then returned to consciousness.'' He said no more. I believed him.

Some investigators have cautioned the credulous about these; because they may only be subconscious memory, dredged up in some kind of hypnotic coma. One common thing in a NDE is the rushing upward or downward through some kind of dark tunnel; toward these ''lights'' that Father Tobin said he saw. But it could be this is just a long-forgotten memory of our own birth-experiences, when the birth canal is expelling us out of the womb, and into the lighted exterior of the delivery room. This might explain the commonly felt sounds and ''emergence'' into another sphere. Also, in some cases shapes, figures of parents, etc., may be seen in a dream state. That would be natural, wouldn't it? A new-born could see its first human beings; in a dazed state, barely conscious in the first minutes of life. The memory could lay in a person's unconscious throughout his/her life, and then come back to them during a coma; making it seem like something just occurred. Maybe I'm way off.

Mother Mary, we ask your Holy Intercession, Amen. --St. James, Pray for this forum! Amen.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 30, 2001.

Jmj

Your thought seems plausible to me, Eugene -- not "way off."

I would like to post a few comments about some things our South African friend, Gavin Adams, stated:

(1) "Human beings are spirits occupying a body, the body dies but the spirit lives on ... our identity and personalities eminates from our spirits rather than our bodies ..."
I believe that this way of thinking is referred to as a "dualism" that is not accepted in Catholic theology. We instead believe that a human person, prior to death and after the resurrection (at the end of time), is an "ensouled body" or an "embodied soul" -- rather than one being more important than the other or "carrying" the other. To think of a living human being as being just spiritual with just a disposable/interchangeable casing is not valid. Our bodies are our only bodies, and they are ours forever -- though temporarily separated from our souls. There is no reincarnation in another body.

(2) "Will we face a dalemma when are bodies finally die and the our spirits are left destitute in the universe?"
Our spirits are never "left destitute" -- unless we freely choose that they should spend eternity in hell (joined by our bodies at the resurrection). Our spirits are cared for by God's providence from the moment he creates them, through death, and into eternity -- in heaven, we should hope.

(3) "Why is it that spirits always seek to possess / occupy a body? Is it that they are destitute when they are outside of a body?"
I don't believe that there is any evidence (or divine revelation) that human spirits do seek to possess bodies after death. Wherever they are (heaven, hell, or purgatory), they simply await their reunification with their glorified bodies at the resurrection. The only spirits that seek to possess bodies are some demons (evil spirits -- fallen angels, not humans) that would like to "possess" (take control of) certain human beings' bodies.

God bless you.
St. James, pray for us.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), January 31, 2001.

This is maybe not an NDE but kind of.

I was raised in a somewhat "religous" household but never really cared or was interested in religion. I was made to got to church but never got any kind of enjoyment or spiritualism out of it. I have always believed that there is a God but never really knowing why or trying to understand why or what he was all about. In other words a nonrepentant sinner for about 30 years. About two years ago I finally got interested in learning about God so I started reading the bible. I didn't really understand it and it seemed confusing to me. I finally was able to get the idea that I needed to repent for my sins. It always tossed around in my head a verse that said something like "go into thy closet and repent of your sins". I considered this many times but kept fighting against it. I would tell myself that I didn't have a closet big enough in my appartment to get in and repent. Then one day, I got the nerve up and felt a real strong desire that I needed to repent. So, I went in to my small bathroom and shut the door and turned off the lights and got down on my hands and knees and asked God to forgive me of my sins. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be and I felt a real pressure seem to be lifted off my shoulders. I felt relieved. And then is where the wierd thing happened. I saw my self accross the room lying in the bath tub as if I were dead. It didn't freak me out or anything , it was as if I expected it and it just made me wonder what it meant. I now know what it meant, I didn't have an NDE, I had a DE. Thank you Lord!

-- Israel (notofthis@world.com), February 01, 2001.