Stan Faryna: Cooperative prep deal on NATO, 40 mm, gas mask filters?

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Stan:

Can gaskmasks.com offer a cooperative prep deal on the 40 mm threaded canisters?

Thanks for all your prep information! It's very helpful and informative.

Regards,

Tom

-- Tom (Y2KOhNo!@Yikes!.com), November 30, 1999

Answers

In looking at the page at http://www.gasmask.com/nmcu-2p.html I see they want $45 per filter if you buy 6 of them. Yikes!

Since all the info I have says the Israeli 40mm filters meet spec and cost me around $3 per delivered from www.sportsmansguide.com I couldn't see buying the pricey filters and bought 3 dozen Israeli filters. A dozen were for a friend but I still couldn't afford to buy the 24 I got if they were $45 per ($1080!). Specs on the Israeli filters as follows:

Israeli Gas Mask Filter Design Specifications as provided by anufacturer. Meets and/or exceeds Israeli Army and U.S. Army C2 filter equirements. Typical Performance Characteristics: Air Flow Resistance: 14mm water gauge at a flow of 30 lpm. Aerosol Penetration: less than 0.01% CK gas life: 100 minutes at flow of 30 lpm and inlet concentration of 2.4 mg/lt DMMP gas life: 205 minutes at flow of 30 lpm and inlet concentration of 3.0 mg/lt Charcoal: ASC 12x30 Filter Medium: Flass fibre HEPA media. (Sample tests are done against Cyanogen Chloride, DMMP, Chloroplarin, Phosegene, and HCN.)

-- Don Kulha (dkulha@vom.com), November 30, 1999.


Don K.,

Thanks for your response!

I'm concerned about Gasmask.com's scare tactics regarding the quality of gas mask replacement filters.

Gasmask.com says on its website:

"There will always be inexpensive, poorly constructed, unreliable masks and filters available through various sources on the Internet and through specialty magazines and catalogs. For your welfare and that of your family, please keep in mind that whenever you see a mask or filter on sale - far below its normal replacement cost - the company offering it is either selling it as a "novelty" item or is risking your life by selling you a potentially worthless piece of "life-saving" equipment." ... "As an example, the Israeli government, aware that Syria, their enemy to the north, has stockpiled a large amount of VX Gas, a deadly chemical agent which their older filters would not protect against, has begun issuing new filters that will fully protect their citizens. Where are the old, surplus masks and filters? Watch out for all the ads that will pop up on the Internet in the months to come, advertising Israeli gas masks and filters." ... "Please be aware that there are several types of ineffective military masks being sold to unsuspecting consumers. Many of these are replicas of some of the quality, North American or Western European made masks sold by Gas Masks, Inc., but they are manufactured in the Far East, Pakistan, etc. Be advised that they are JUNK. They are absolutely useless. hey cannot be sold to any military organization, so they are being unloaded on unsuspecting civilians. These masks will no more protect you against NBC hazards than will a paper towel taped across your face." ... "In addition, you should never buy a used gas mask or filter from a surplus supplier. Used gas masks, even when they were previously used only for practice, have lost their integrity. They are sold very cheaply because there is no guarantee that they will protect you from nuclear, biological or chemical agents. [We mention this fact again and again on this Web site. If we believed that used or surplus gas masks and filters would protect you, we would sell them. We would sell a lot of them because of their low price. The reason we don't sell them is because they do not work. There is no guarantee that they will protect you.]" ... "All masks and filters sold by Gas Masks, Inc. are brand new, in their original packaging, and sterile. Gas masks have a shelf life of 20 years or longer, and filters have a 10-year shelf life. If you have a mask and filter that was purchased from a swap meet, gun show or surplus store and is not in its original packaging, assume it is useless. This is one chance not worth taking."

Don,

The filters from Sportsman's Guide do not indicate the date of manufacture or the manufacturer. In addition, these filters do not come sealed in individual bags, so there's no way to tell if someone has unscrewed the metal cap or removed the rubber seal and then at a later date resealed them.

Are you concerned about the above? What do you think? Do you have a different source for brand-new filters? I'm interested in your response.

Regards,

Tom

-- Tom (Y2KOhNo!@Yikes!.com), December 01, 1999.


The Coop Preps with www.watertanks.com and www.gas-masks.com includes a brand new filter for $28.00. 

You all bring up some interesting points and I hope you can help me get some good answers.

Click the link below to review the various things offered in this cooper deal:
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001t 8E

Sincerely,
Stan Faryna

Cooperative Preps: Inexpensive Grain Mill
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001p JH

Cooperative Preps: Katadyn Water Filters
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001r WM

Got 14 days of preps? If not, get started now. Click here.

Click here and check out the TB2000 preparation forum.



-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), December 01, 1999.

I'm sure there's at least some grain of truth to what they say. Some of the Russian/German clone masks (M-17 clones) I'm told are pretty useless (as if the original U.S. M-17 wasn't bad enough to begion with). That's one of the reasons I bought MCU-2/P masks for our group. I bought these used but on inspection and cleaning can find no fault with these though some are 9 years old. I've checked the valves, seals, straps and mask integrity (per the instructions in the manual TO14P4-15-1)...everything is just fine. I paid prices ranging from $35 to $90 per including carry bags and a new C-2 filter with each. I think their price of $190 for new masks (manufactured in the U.S. by MSA, BTW) is very good.

Per the filters....If money were no object I'd buy the U.S. C-2A filters (I have a few). I can't quantify any real advantage with them though. I believe their statement about Syrian VX necessitating a change is bullstuff...if it weren't I would not trust the U.S. C-2 filters built to meet the same spec (there is a C-2A spec which the newest U.S. filters meet). Don't know what the difference is though I put in an e-mail to my favorite jarhead logistics officer who's supposed to look into that (...and a dozen "other things").

I feel pretty confident with the Israeli filters. Very close inspection of the intake side filter media shows no particulate or other signs of contamination. The filters are 80's vintage so a bit dated but I don't think the HEPA media or charcoal layer is going to break down anytime soon. Let's make something clear here too; my primary concern where I live is secondary exposure to infectious disease or fallout. I expect the HEPA media alone to do just fine. If I lived too near a chemical plant I might be concerned about other things and looking at other MSA masks and media.

-- Don Kulha (dkulha@vom.com), December 01, 1999.


Don K., Thanks for your comments and opinions.

IF, and I repeat IF, Gasmasks.com is accurate about the following quotes, then the unwrapped filters (1980s according to you) from Sportsman's Guide are not adequate for NBC protection and are "useless."

Gasmasks.com says:

"For your welfare and that of your family, please keep in mind that whenever you see a mask or filter on sale - far below its normal replacement cost - the company offering it is either selling it as a "novelty" item or is risking your life by selling you a potentially worthless piece of "life-saving" equipment."

...

"Gas masks have a shelf life of 20 years or longer, and filters have a 10-year shelf life. If you have a mask and filter that was purchased from a swap meet, gun show or surplus store and is not in its original packaging, assume it is useless."

Don,

I have some questions for you:

* How can you tell for sure the date of manufacture of the filters?

* What code do you see on your Israeli filters from S. G.?

* If you unscrew the metal cap or remove the rubber seal and then at a later date reseal them, is the effectiveness of the filters decreased?

* Are the $28.00 filters that Stan F. has mentioned compatible with the Israeli military M15 and civilian masks?

Thanks very much for your help and response!

Regards,

Tom

-- Tom (Y2KOhNo!@Yikes!.com), December 01, 1999.



Major Surplus and Survival out of Gardena, Calif www.MajorSurplusNSurvival.com has new M-15 mask and canister with drink tubes at 29.95. New filters are 4.95 ea or 10 pack for 39.95. I have no affiliation with them and have not purchased masks - just providing for comparison.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), December 02, 1999.

Don, I have some questions for you:

* How can you tell for sure the date of manufacture of the filters? * What code do you see on your Israeli filters from S. G.?

I don't have them handy and hadn't opened the cases. However the date on the one sample filter I bought was 85 as I decipher it. I'll check on this.

* If you unscrew the metal cap or remove the rubber seal and then at a later date reseal them, is the effectiveness of the filters decreased?

Doubt it unless you leave the filter open long enough in a humid environment to soak up water. The working components of the filter are charcoal, and fiberglass HEPA media which I expect would work fine. My jarhead logistics officer friend told me that during desert storm they used outdated filters in the M-17 masks (nowhere close to as good as the 40mm filter) routinely. BTW, someone needs to ask gasmask inc. what the date on their filters are (heard from someone they were 89's) and if they are C-2's or C-2A's.

* Are the $28.00 filters that Stan F. has mentioned compatible with the Israeli military M15 and civilian masks?

Yes, any 40mm NATO/U.S. spec C-2 filter should be interchangable.

-- Don Kulha (dkulha@vom.com), December 03, 1999.


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