I'm prepared and live in a suburb. Wish I was in the country, but I'm not.

I don't know what will happen; I'm probably a 4 to 8 on the "how bad will it be?" scale.

Let's assume there is some combination of loss of power, water, and/or gas that forces many people to shelters. That makes me - as I hauntingly read on another post - "alone on my street."

That's not a fun thought. I'd rather be home than in a shelter, course...but it's still not a fun thought.

Here's my question. Assuming people do need to go to shelters, what then? I realize it depends on the length of outages. But there's no way that there will be enough shelters to hold any sizeable percent of the population.

Mad max? "Prepped homes" take in as many people as they can? Either voluntarily or by mandate?

Personally, I've decided on an "open door" policy, though I realize that can only go "so far," and that my first obligation is to my family. The problem, of course, is that no matter what happens, we probably won't know "how long it will last," making decisions about sharing even more difficult.

I agree that "your best security is a prepped neighbor," but even up-prepped neighbors may have "assets" that can help the community. I may have extra food; they may have skills, etc.

Sorry about the lack of focus in this post. Look forward to your comments. And thanks, most of you (grin) for an excellent forum.

-- joe (joe@softwaredeveloper.net), November 25, 1999

Answers

Joe,

The other day I talked with a co-worker who is a city commission member and former mayor. Co-worker said if power goes they can invite folks to the water plant for warm coffee. Water plant has a backup generator but don't know if they have secured a tanker truck of deisel fuel per my advise last year. I suppressed my laughter about the coffee thing.

Co-worker was told some time back that water plant is Y2K ok. I suspect this means that they did the CYA and got complience statements so come 01/01/00 water is a ???. There is so much they could have done w/o a great amount of expense such as set up civic center and schools for use as shelters, made plans with local sources of food (farmers & Coop's), etc. but to my knowledge little has been done. This is a rural toen of 8K in a county of 16K. I suspect this is the case for 99% of towns.

-- Ed (ed@lizzardranch.com), November 25, 1999.

Doubt if suburbs will have shelters for people in houses unless it is very cold. They might send out trucks with water.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), November 25, 1999.

I don't think that anybody that is prepared is planning on staying in a shelter. The tales that have been told, by those who experienced staying in shelters during local disasters, motivate me to continue prepping.

It doesn't take much imagination on my part to picture the children crying, the smells and the general discomfort.

The NBC movie did not show a real life situation when the Guard told Tinfoil to move out.

I hope I can get to Plan B before the shelter patrol come. If not I will not answer the door. If they break in, then they will have to pull me out kicking and screaming. :-O

Can't believe I'm posting on this topic as I wait for my kids to arrive for our Thanksgiving meal.

-- tc (trashcan-man@webtv.net), November 25, 1999.

Dear Joe,

Happy Thanksgiving.

I suspect that we've all given this one a lot of thought.

I have 2 homes, one in Seattle and one in rural eastern Washington. You can probably guess were my family will be staying.

We're so rural, that the population density is less than one person per square mile for the entire county. We're 3 miles up a dirt road with only 12 people inhabiting a mountian of 8,000 acres and we'll probably be snow-bound for a few weeks-no cars, only foot traffic.

In other words, I don't expect many visitors.

There's two parts to your question. First-how to develop support and strengthen your potential survival:

If I do get visitors, my response will be to have "hand-out" packs of a day's food for anyone-no strings attached, one-time only. I'd rather not make enemies that could come back and surprise us with a not-so-friendly visit. For a couple of bucks you could avoid a potentially lethal situation.

Beyond one day, my plan is to offer food and shelter in exchange for work, say an hour for each meal, bed or shower. I'd wanna get these neighbors thinking positivly towards me and my family. Cooking, security patrol, washing bedding, all these tasks bond the group and staying busy keeps the frustration level down. Assigned tasks & clear contracts lead to better relations here.

Desperation can lead us to (otherwise) irrational acts. If you can surround yourself with like-minded folks all looking out for a common goal of safety for themselves and their families, you've eliminated a big source of potential problems.

There's one final important aspect to this method. You can observe these potential friends or foes up close. "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer."

On the defensive side. You need to consider past populations that delt with adverse situation for understanding.

The Puritians were severe since any selfish actions could theaten the whole group. Cattle or horse rustlers were hung because to steal a cow or horse could be deadly to the owners. Captains of ships and airplanes have ultimate authority because they have responsibility for all aboard.

Food theft in today's world is nothing. In a post-2000 world, you, as head of your household, may very well have the sigular responsibility of deciding if it's a capital crime committed against your loved ones.

Scary thought, huh?

Best of luck,

-- Randers (coyotecanyon@hotmail.com), November 25, 1999.

Good questions and thoughts, Joe.

I was reading how folks dealt with the Great Ice Storm in Canada that left hundreds of thousands of people without power, some for weeks.

What one writer reported was that people in his neighborhood didn't want to go to the local (crowded, unsanitary) shelter and stayed home. What happened was neighbors spent a few hours a day at the warmest house. Those people brought water and food to the person with the heat. Also batteries, etc. Every body pitched in. People checked in on each other and went home to shower or take care of personal business before they came back to stay at the "warm house."

No one was freeloading and was expected to help chop wood, empty ashes, keep the place clean, etc. etc. There weren't that many, either, so the numbers were managable.

Sounds like a good plan to me. If my neighbors are cool and not insane. I'd rather have their help than their anger or suspicion.

-- lara (nprbuff@hotmail.com), November 25, 1999.

My neighbors are not "cool" and at least one is a certified nutcase. With that in mind, my policy will be "Go Away and Stay Away".

As for shelters, forget it! I will not voluntarily go to one and will resist any attempt to have outsiders quartered in my house. At the risk of sounding selfish, I have no interest in contributing my food, water and fuel to assist anyone who was foolish or ignorant enough not to prepare for themselves.

-- Irving (irvingf@myremarq.com), November 25, 1999.

Look as poor and miserable as possible if someone knocks on your door. If they are authorities asking you to go to a shelter tell them you have enough supplies to last a few days and ask them to check up on you in a few days. (Believe me, if things are getting bad you probably will never see them again.)

As for visitors seeking help tell them you are barely surviving as it is but give them a little food or water and send them on their way.

For neighbors at first I would encourage them to go to the nearest shelter. If they stuck around I would give them the visitor treatment at first, then eventually I would put them to work on outside guard duty (eyes and ears only, no weapons) in exchange for a small amount of food and water. With our northern climes hopefully they will decide (sooner or later) a shelter is preferable to that duty!

If they have the toughness to survive a week or so of that then they are probably an asset that I would take in with tough house rules.

-- cgbg jr (cgbgjr@webtv.net), November 25, 1999.

From the shelter to the camp.........

"So, folks, the stuff* is here. They've got the camps set up. But you Christians out there, don't think you are going to the camps to work it out, work out your penalty until the Lord comes. OK? You're not going to get to go to a camp because you are a useless eater. The camp (is a deception). You're going to be wasted along the way."

*stuff = U.N. troops, U.N. military equipment in the U.S.

Quote from Al Cuppet on Franklin Frith radio show, Nov. 23,1999, former adviser to Joint Chiefs of Staff (6 years), 21 years in the military, speaks 5 languages, received Bronze Star.

For a complete transcript of the interview, go to www.freerepublic.com Search on Cuppet or Y2k End Game, Interview with Al Cuppet.

-- r.u.ready (don'tgothere@fr.com), November 25, 1999.

Feed the starving masses,and you will become the starving masses.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), November 26, 1999.

Joe,

I was just discussing this same subject yesterday. It's going to be interesting. We live in the suberbs about 10 miles from a rather large City and perhaps 30 miles from NY City. We decided to stay in our home, after some thought, the idea of packing up and relocating to an isolated area, not knowing anyone... you get the idea.

Out of our entire family, I appear to be the one who is pushing everyone else, because I believe this will be between a 5-7 on the scale, but dragged out over perhaps several months in several key area's. My concern is protection for the home, my wife will not allow even a 12 guage in the house. If things get crazy, we will be forced to either group together as a nieghborhood (we have generator and supplies) or relocate to a shelter. If things become extreme, I think military will step in. Good luck.

-- Rich (Rluck@aol.com), November 26, 1999.

Rich:

If you don't have the stones to stand up to your wife, what makes you think that you will survive a serious situation anyways? Say a dozen outlaw bikers are prowling down your street looking for loot. What will you do if you have no guns?

I guess you could tell your wife that since she didn't want you to have the means to defend her, that she is on her own, and that you're bugging out. Let HER talk the bikers out of assaulting/raping her.

Me, I have a semi auto rifle, and lots of loaded mags. Most of the bikers won't make it out of range.

Or you could get some guns, and not let her know about them. After she has the sh*t scared out of her a couple times, she might be willing to let you have a gun, and glad that you already do have it.

-- Bill (billclo@msgbox.com), November 26, 1999.