Partial OT: US gasoline prices are way too low.greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Anticipating all the bitching that's gonna unfold when gasoline prices head up toward $2 / gallon, allow me to present another very pertinent perspective:
US gasoline prices are subsidized and should be about $1.50 higher.
The US insists on policing the world and the Mideast oil fields to protect our 20 million barrels / day of consumption. (so we have 4% of the world's population and we consume over 26% of the worl'd oil and about a third of the world's gasoline).
Its tough to differentiate how much of our +$300 billion defence budget goes into the Mideast. Many say as much as $100 billion. For arguement sake let's take a conservative $50 billion. If Americans are gonna spend $50 billion protecting Mideast oil flows and playing these intermittent Mideast games, this expense should be reflected in the price of our gasoline. How are alternative fuels gonna compete if it isn't?
Hence I recommend we either drop our futile attempt to control and protect Mideast oil flows (and economics), or we tack on $1 /gallon tax onto gasoline to cover our 'Defense' expenses over there.
I'm not even going into greenhouse gasses and other pollution 'costs' that aren't covered by these subsidized US gasoline economics.
-- Downstreamer (email@example.com), November 24, 1999
If it will make you happy, why don't you just send an extra $1/gallon every time you fill er up. Then we can both be happy. Better yet, pay $2 extra and I'll deduct just half, say .50 / gallon. GO pound sand.
-- enough is (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 24, 1999.
How about spending that 50bil. on developing arctic oil and offshore reserves right here in USA so we can supply our own fuels. We have ample reserves to be self sufficient if we can get the enviro-hysterics under control. Cheap gas is essential to preserve any semblance of prosperity and a decent lifestyle in this country.
-- doktorbob (email@example.com), November 24, 1999.
"I'm not even going into greenhouse gasses and other pollution 'costs' that aren't covered by these subsidized US gasoline economics."
You might as well go on into it. We in America are terrible people. We are all environmental criminals. We are all consumptuous criminals. In fact, we should all be killed and taken off the planet so that the land of American can return to its natural state.
If we are not killed for our crimes then we should stop the sale of petro products for 6 months.
At the very least, we the People of the United States of America should:
1. Elect Al Gore President so the screaming green meemies are always in our face working to make us feel like twits until they can destroy us all. 2. Bend the knee to the Volcano gods. Mount Pinatubo spewed forth more noxious venom into the atmosphere than all of mankind since the industrial revolution. (And in a very short period of time) We must plead to the Volcano gods to stop this sort of activity.
I got to go for now..... darn the luck, I was just getting started!
Maybe Y2K will get the price up to where you want it Downstreamer.
-- the Virginian (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 24, 1999.
Perhaps you're right. I've always wanted to see us less dependent on foreign oil, because the lives of American soldiers are on the line here. If we got our energy and fuel through other means, the crazies out there in the middle east could murder each other to their heart's content while we kick back and mind our own business at a safe distance!
I do think that some of our current environmental policy is a little looney but by golly REDUCTION OF OUR DEPENDENCE ON MIDEAST OIL IS A NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE. We can do it with more efficient cars and through some of the exotic new experimental sono-accoustic-electric power generation systems. We can do it with solar devices. We can do it using new hydrogen technologies. Nearly unlimited power from cheap, renewable energy sources should be the Apollo Project of our generation. Too bad the Big Bad Boys in the oil industry would do everything in their power to stop such a move...
-- coprolith (email@example.com), November 24, 1999.
Downstreamer, I think you're right. I was just thinking about rationing--we will need to do it both for oil and electricity. Doing it by adding price is one way, although it hurts the poor a lot. But really, it's no good that we keep using all the resources as if there's no tomorrow. Unless we provide a way to make tomorrow work-- like a new means of producing electricity and so on. Of course it's too late to discuss this.
-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), November 24, 1999.
Oh, maann! After all the ribbing we have given to Colin in the U.K. and then you have to go and admit we are probably $1.50 lower than we should be. If/when he reads this prepare for merciless ribbing!
(I expect you are probably right, just teasing)
-- Nancy (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 25, 1999.
DAMN right. ;) Gas? GAS? FIVE DOLLARS THIRTY FIVE A GALLON! A US gas hike is the only thing I'm looking forward to! ;p
-- Colin MacDonald (email@example.com), November 25, 1999.
Well I hope you all get your $5.00 a gallon. 1930's would look like a picnic.
-- the Virginian (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 25, 1999.
I think we need to think long-term for our nation, our children, and our world. Short-term greed isn't going to help any of us. We need to find other forms of fuel and resources, and use them more wisely.
People complain about the policies of big business, yet these same people go about their daily lives with the same amount of indifference and create an incredible amount of waste. It's time we all woke up (myself included) and see what we're doing to ourselves and the rest of the world. We've had it too darn easy for too long, and it's no wonder the rest of the world complains about us.
Greed, in any form, will be our downfall. I'd rather that I pay a price now (by choice) than have my children pay it, by need. Think about it please.
-- Deb M. (email@example.com), November 25, 1999.
In search of an alternate energy source for our farm, I came across quite a bit of info on fuel cell technology. I talked to my local electric coop about it. It is their opinion (and mine) that this will be, without doubt, the wave of the future.
General Electric recently bought out Plug Power, one of the leaders in fuel cell development. If I were into the stock market, I would be buying General Electric. This stuff is truly amazing folks - home sized units, commercial units - and even for autos. The upcoming shortages on fossil fuels will really (I hope) bring on the fuel cell development to the masses. Plug Power did have a web site with pictures.
-- jeanne (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 25, 1999.
I say screw Y2K, pull the plug now on the whole grid system. Close all U.S. ports to foreign goods. Ships are just bringing in goods which spoil us anyway. Give the finger to the oil exporting nations of the world. Let them eat and drink their black gold.
We should use the Social Security trust fund to buy all automobile manufacturing plants and then shut em down.
Heck, while we're at it, we should close down any corporation that makes a physical product. Send those nasty corporate executives to till the farms. And speaking of farms, the nasty greedy U.S. should condemn and takeover all farmland and turn them into plantations for the newly unemployed to work on so that we can feed those who provide non-polluting services. Oh but wait....
Without oil, the tourism industry shutsdown and those newly unemployed will come from the ranks of Travel Agencies, Insurance Salesman, Airline Pilots, motel/hotel service personnel ... well the list could go on and on. Oh my goodness, it's a trickle down affect! Blasted! I hate trickle down theories.
There are now so many unemployed that there is no longer a need for many hundreds of other services.
We can merrily raise our children to join the ranks of the unemployed.
But maybe, just maybe, Y2K will take care of all this for us. Let's cross our fingers and hope that we all die so that the gods can have earth back.
Or, maybe developing alternative forms of energy will save the day.
P.S. Being the diplomat that I am, I say screw the stuffy limeys in England anyway.
-- the Virginian (email@example.com), November 25, 1999.
I think that "rationing" of gasoline/petroleum or simple high prices are both optimistic. When the refineries can't refine because the trains can't run, everybody is going to be on foot.
-- Liz Pavek (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 25, 1999.