A wild edible most have nearby, but few know about...

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Eat your Quack-Grass roots! (Agropyron repens)

The British botanist Withering, wrote: "The roots dried and ground to meal, have been used to make bread in years of scarcity."

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 24, 1999

Answers

Cool, If it wasn't for quack grass, I wouldn't no grass at all.... Thanks.

jh

-- john hebert (jt_hebert@hotmail.com), November 24, 1999.


Sounds interesting but I have no idea what quack grass is.

-- Carol (glear@usa.net), November 24, 1999.

You can download my demo program that
has a lot of info on edible plants of
the pacific northwest. A lot of the
plants are found throughout the US.

Flora

-- spider (spider0@usa.net), November 24, 1999.


Carol,

Quack-grass is a flat-leaved, dark-green grass. Most people think of it as a weed. Look for slender, wiry, white rootstocks; also, it has slender, erect stalks terminated by an erect, finger-like spike made up of smaller spikes (spikelets) about a half inch long.

It is known by many other names, e.g., Couch-grass, Witch-grass, Dog- grass, Quick-grass.

If this is still unclear, you may find photos in one of the Ortho books, as it is viewed as a hard-to-eradicate weed.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 24, 1999.


Also, central california residents will want to look up "Miner's Lettuce" - a sort of groundcover-looking plant that grows all over the coast range. Yummy in salads, it's kind of spinachy with smaller round leaves.

As always, find a reputable book with pictures before you go chomping on any old plant. Hemlock also grows everywhere in the coast range, as does poison oak.

JZ

-- Jeff Zurschmeide (zursch@cyberhighway.net), November 24, 1999.



John Hebert,

LOL! Great allusion to "Born Under a Bad Sign"!(but should read, "...I wouldn't have no grass at all").

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 24, 1999.


See the thread, "How do you know you have enough stocked" by "Familyman" on the top level forum. On it I've posted many possibilities of obtaining wild edibles in cold winter climates.

Bottom line: Get as many books on wild edibles as you can. There's definitely overlap, but you'll find much material that is complimentary, plus photos and drawings of the same plant at different stages and angles.

And don't start until you're familiar with poisonous lookalikes as well!

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 24, 1999.


eve,

Grandpappy had a terrific thread on wild edibles on this forum. I'm sorry to have forgotten the title. Can some kind soul out there help with title or link? Thanks.

-- flora (***@__._), November 24, 1999.


flora,

You know, I remember it (weren't there two or three posts?), and he really impressed me. I remember printing it out at the time, but I think I misplaced it. But if you or anyone could link it, I would appreciate it; I'd love to see it again and print it out. Actually, everybody should see it.

Thanks,

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 24, 1999.


It sounds like broadleaf weed aka plantain. Any relation? Plantain is common in the NE, and edible, root seed and leaf Sue

-- Sue Landress (Sulandherb@aol.com), November 24, 1999.


eve:

Cool suggestion, but what is you opinion on endophyts in such grasses.

Best wishes,,,,

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 24, 1999.


As you know that should have been endophytes. e-mail has destroyed my spelling.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 24, 1999.


another interesting source of info on edible lawns and such is the Plants for a Future site. They have a 7,000 entry database of plants of use to man and brochures covering specific topics like edible lawns, woodland food gardening, edible hedges, etc. It is based in England or something, so there may not be as many cold climate plants.

http://www.scs.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/index.html

There are many "weed" plants that require very little "gardening" like sunchokes, dandilions (introduced by english settlers as an essential green), chicory (almost got Ben Franklin charged with treason), daylillies, certain amaranth types, purslane and the list can go on. Not only are several of these more nutritious than almost every veggy in the modern grocers and easier to grow to boot, Most of these foods can not be taken from you because they are not seen as food.

Another related thought is to raise "odd" heirloom vegetables that people are not used to. If you can grow a variety that never "looks ripe" to the uninitiated, losses may be substantially reduced.

A "meaner" thought is to grow "look alike" non-edible plants. This would reduce the amount of foraging in the long run. Take care, this could backfire in a numer of ways.

-- tree (thetrees@bigfoot.com), November 24, 1999.


Z1X4Y7,

I'm aware of no common endophytic fungi that might infect Agropyron repens. But even if there were, the fungi would be expected to infect the flowers and proliferate in the seeds; from there, we might see a mass develop in the stems and leaves. Here we're talking about eating the roots.

In any case, though, I would not plan to eat any grass (except certain cereals, etc.) unless practically nothing else was left to eat. Thus, in a survival situation, I would most likely assess the risk as worth it, and that was really what I tried to imply in my post.

I hope this helps. Good question, though.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 25, 1999.


Sue,

Plantain is quite different from the grasses. Most obviously, plantains almost always have a basal rosette of leaves; grasses don't. Beyond this, there is no simple way I can describe grasses for you in a post; their structure is quite complex. But a fantastic book for the beginner is "First Book of Grasses" by Agnes Chase.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 25, 1999.



Tree,

All good and interesting points. I've seen part of the Plants for a Future site. In general I'm impressed, but I remember that when reading some of the descriptions I was disappointed to see many phrases and sentences repeated word for word across species. This shows some laziness. When I realized this, I gave the site a lower priority in my studies.

Thanks for your input.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 25, 1999.


Eve:

I'm not attempting to be rude, but you evidently don't know a lot about endophytes. Everything you said is untrue. It is present in the leaves, leaf sheaths and sometimes the roots. In general, reproduction is obligate, with no fruiting bodies. Well enough of that lecture.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 25, 1999.


I am familiar with the Plants for a Future site and it is indeed "in England or something." There is a mind-boggling amount of information at the site and, with over 7000 plants described, PFAF might be forgiven for using a standard descriptive phrase over and over. Here is a short description of the organization:

"Plants For A Future is a resource centre for rare and unusual plants, particularly those which have edible, medicinal or other uses. We practice vegan-organic permaculture with emphasis on creating an ecologically sustainable environment and Perennial plants. We have two pieces of land, in Devon and Cornwall, where we demonstrate our agricultural

Devon and Cornwall constitute the long leg sticking out into the Atlantic on the SW corner of England.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), November 25, 1999.


Z1X4Y7,

"In many species of grasses, endophytic fungi infect the flowers of the host and proliferate in the seeds. Eventually, a substantial mass develops throughout the stems and leaves of the mature grass plant, with the fungal hyphae growing between the fungal hyphae growing between the host cells." (Biology of Plants, p. 335, 6th ed., Raven, Evert, Eichhorn).

So, what's the problem?

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 25, 1999.


Tree,

An addendum to my response to you: to the end of the second sentence, add: "...and genera".

Further, I didn't intend my response to be deprecatory about the site as a whole; there's certainly a lot of great information there. It's just that the one aspect I discussed kind of soured me on it.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 25, 1999.


eve:

I have more than a decade of research experience in this area. My present project involves 3 states and another country. Scientists from two UE countries want to get involved in cooperation with us. We have multiple patents for combinations which are beginning to solve the problem in agriculturally important plants. I have been to 10 weeks of scientific meetings on endophytes this year. We are presently selecting varients of fungi which are segregating for regulation of plant genes. I could go on and on; but I think that your reference is somewhat pathetic.

Best wishes,,,

z (little z means I am being forceful bu

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 25, 1999.


Cut off again eve:

It should have said z (little z means I am being forceful but nice)...

Best wishes.....

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 25, 1999.


eve:

By the way, it is nice to have this discussion about endophytes in grasses [excluding those in dicots], but I must leave for a meeting in which we will discuss this subject, including, infection in Agropyron.

Best wishes,,,,

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), November 25, 1999.


Z1X4Y7,

Given the purpose of the prep forum and the intent of my post, your comments are, for the most part, irrelevant.

If our food is running out, and the expenditure of calories in obtaining the food is reasonable in the context, unless the problem is obvious (e.g., ergot, etc.), I doubt very many of us will be standing next to a clump of grass along with you, wringing our hands and sweating over what mycotoxins (or whatever) might possibly be in the plant.

So, I'm really not interested in continuing this discussion unless you get back on topic.

I will admit though, I have no doubt that you probably know more fungi than I do.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 26, 1999.


Z -- it sounds as if you have a lot of expertise to contribute but it also sounded like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder here, for reasons I don't understand. The reason for the prep forum is to enable us all to help one another -- ESPECIALLY by the input of ADDITIONAL expertise on a thread where someone has sincerely posted a question OR their experience and knowledge to date.

Eve did that and has been pretty temperate in response to your posts.

What are your thoughts on wild edibles that are useful in survival situations? How can fungi and other problems be taken care of? What am I not "smart enough" to know even to ask about?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), November 26, 1999.


To all:

Some Quack-grass (Agropyron repens) references:

"Edible Wild Plants of Eastern North America" (by Merritt Fernald & Alfred Kinsey), p. 95

"Grasses, an Identification Guide" (by Lauren Brown), p. 93

"Field Guide to the Grasses, Sedges and Rushes" (by Edward Knobel), p. 10-11

"Controlling Weeds" (Rodale), P. 86

"All About Lawns" (Ortho), p. 66, 74

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 27, 1999.


To all,

If you're interested in a good description w/color photos, and would like a book that is somewhat less technical and easily obtainable, I highly recommend the Rodale book, above. With it, you will be able to compare the Quack-grass to Crabgrass and other similar grasses as well.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 27, 1999.


I believe the ditty goes thus... "sedges have edges, and rushes are round, and grasses are hollow right down to the ground"

Brooks, who never could identify grasses...

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), November 27, 1999.


"Sedges have edges, rushes are round;

and grasses have nodes all the way to the ground."

Be careful, mindful, and responsible.

OT - anyone read the 'new' Henry David Thoureau book? I understand it's a good one about the natives.

-- flora (***@__._), November 27, 1999.


eve,

Old Git unearthed the thread I was thinking about:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0015Kn

-- flora (***@__._), November 28, 1999.


flora,

Thanks for the website. I haven't looked at it yet, but if it's Grandpappy's I know it's a keeper. And I just read about the new Thoreau book -- it sounds great!

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 29, 1999.


eve,

re: the 'have' in 'I wouldn't have...' It was there when I sent the reply - honest, I saw it... must have been hallucinating maybe I'm Y2K toxic....

re: Quackgrass in compost rich organic gardens - a piece of cake to harvest. I effortlessly pull it by the yard (or meter depending on your preference). Almost is fun to weed where the soil is loose.

re: other root topics. Mild fall has meant that my late carrot crop is comfortably resting, still waiting to be harvested (this late is unusual for Milwuakee area). Bales of hay are waiting to cover the bunches I'll harvest and 'replant' in a confined area once the ground starts to set frost. Have done that before and harvested fresh carrots into March...

Good Luck jh

-- john hebert (jt_hebert@hotmail.com), November 29, 1999.


Old Git,

And thank you for giving the website info to flora for me.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 29, 1999.


john hebert,

Thanks for the info on Quack-grass harvesting and the carrot tip (I'm in southeast Michigan, by the way).

Just for that, I've got another one for you:

In 1844, J. C. Loudon wrote that, "in the cottage gardens in Poland", Crabgrass (Digitaria sanguinalis) seeds were used as a substitute for rice. But, personally, I can't vouch for whether the effort to harvest them would be worth it.

In any case, John, armed with this kind of information we should be "Sittin' on top of the World"...

By the way, good luck to you, too.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 29, 1999.


eve,

You should hook up with your local mycological society. Lots of fungophiles are keen on native plants as well. They often have forays that are good adventure, and companionship.

-- flora (***@__._), November 29, 1999.


eve,

I know I'm getting off the original question but here's a quick follow up on the hay bale 'root cellar'.

Hay bales work well in lieu of a root cellar. If you decide to try it be sure to extend bales a least a bale width past your produce (some frost will creep in along the perimeter.) Also be sure to take time to level the ground (some sheltered buckets of DRY soil make it easier) and snug up bales after you havest bunches of goodies (frost will creep in through space between or under bales if you aren't careful.) I've used one bale high with no problem. 2 high would provide and extra measure of insulation. A tarp us can make for neater access after the snow flies. Rodents can be a problem - so its wise to wait until after they've holed up to set up your veggie cellar. It would not be cool to bury you potatoes, carrots, beets (whatever) only to have some rodents decide to nest under/in the hay bales and enjoy your bounty you so carefully stashed...

Hmmm, sittin on top.... Depending on your preferences, you may want to include non-edible flowers in you Y2K prep. Flowers like Morning Glory are easy to grow and in times of trouble, sitting in a flower covered arbor may indeed put you top of the world.

jh

-- john hebert (jt_hebert@hotmail.com), November 29, 1999.


John -- funny you should mention that. We had decided just from some out-of-the-box thinking to put hay bales around and on top of our cellar entryway which goes down about 6 feet, has door to cellar etc. We figured we could cobble together a pretty fair root cellar that way. Doing a "real" root cellar fell out of the list for lack of time this fall.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), November 29, 1999.

flora,

Thanks for the advice. You've been a big help to me.

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 30, 1999.


John,

Thanks so much for the hay advice. My garden/orchard consists of mostly fruit and fruit trees right now, but I have lots of Jerusalem Artichokes and I'd like to try this out on some of them, as an experiment. Actually, I'm going to leave most of the 'chokes in the ground, as they're hardy to Zone 3; I'm in Zone 5. But I'll mulch those with straw anyway, just for insurance. I do plan lots more crops next year, though, so, I'll be using your hay method more extensively. I have access to straw, and I assume that the straw will accomplish the same purpose.

And your Morning Glory idea sounds delicious (eve's now lost in reverie...)!

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 30, 1999.


BigDog,

By the way, I appreciate your support. I don't understand that "Z" guy (gal?).

Thanks,

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 30, 1999.


John,

I meant to add, my fruit plants/trees are new, so the fruit production is zero right now. I do plan to try your method with some fruits later on, though.

Be talkin' to ya,

-- eve (123@4567.com), November 30, 1999.


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