Students get shafted

greenspun.com : LUSENET : I-695 Thirty Dollar License Tab Initiative : One Thread

When this initiative was made, did anyone think about the transit budget? I'm up here in Bellingham going to Western and it seems like at least half of the students use busses to get to and from school. Now a good portion of the routes will be cut and it is because of I-695. Paying $30 for my car is going to be nice but I still won't be able to get to school. I have one more question, is this a rich persons law? My car is an '88 and I'll save $70 but I can't buy a new car with that, nor can anyone I know. If $800 tabs are going to break you, maybe you should hold off on the Mercedes.

-- Jeremy Conley (permdog@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999

Answers

Jeremy, you sure sound like cave canine, hmmmmmm. In any case, people all over the state are jumping to conclusions. Your service is only being reduced in many cases, not eliminated. How do you know you won't be able to get around? Almost everyone in this state was aware what I-695 would do to the transit budget, thats why we all voted for it. We wanted to be sure you would suffer. Everyone knows college students have to ride the bus, they never have cars. Yes, this is a rich persons law. We all make over $200,000 that voted for I-695. No, we don't want to share with you. We all want to buy the biggest SUV available and pay no taxes. I guess you will have to walk. (glad I raised my kid to have common sense, expect no handouts and take care of himself.)

-- Marsha (acorn_nut@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.

Hey Marsha. I'm not Jeremy from Western. Sorry. Fact is, both our towns are CANCELLING several useful routes to students. Don't tell us what they're doing with our routes, we live there, you don't. Walk? As I said before, long distances in the cold and even you would complain. Drive our cars to school? Have you been to a college campus lately? Parking is RIDICULOUS. And if you wanted to buy a parking pass rather than use the meters, you would pay $100-200 a year. Do you see why college students use the bus???

-- cave canine (cavecanine@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.

I'm in the same boat. I think it's been quite a while since Marsha has been to college if at all. Sure they say live on or close to campus, good luck finding a place. Parking, forget about it. You're either riding a bike, walking or bussin' it. We try to carpool, but roomates always have different schedules, and we all work on or off campus. And ed, you have 3 degrees and you're still a maintenance worker? As far as putting off school and getting a job so I can afford a car and not be dependent on the bus service. Does anybody else see anything wrong with this point of view?

-- taz (zat#@%%%.com), November 22, 1999.

Fair enough Cave, since this is the first civil post you have directed towards me, you will receive same.

If you have been reading the forum, you would know I regard Transit as an essential service, based on the demand and costs involved. I do not know the financial health of your particular Transit. I do know they expect to receive MVET funds collected in the last 2 quarters of 1999 to be paid in 2000. Do you know what they expect to do with that money? I didn't think so. As a rider, I would think you would attend some meetings and ask questions. Transit Agencies have the information as to what they are cutting. This is an important process, that you as a rider can and should particpate. Unless you have done so, you are uniformed. Just because you live there doesn't mean you are informed. My yes vote did not cause you to lose Transit service. Our government takes too much of peoples hard earned money and wastes it. Our state government caused you to lose your transit service. Are you sending them sarcastic emails?

And why the heck aren't you mad because a grandma in a wheelchair will be unable to go to a Doctors appointment or church? Are you capable of thinking of somone other than yourself? I am. She will be more helpless in this situation than you.

Getting angry at voters for lowering their tax burden, which is our RIGHT, is not constructive. It won't change our minds one bit. It will however, make you appear to be a pain in the a** whiner. If indeed you want us to respect your opinion, then I would refrain from making comments such as Jeremy made regarding a Mercedes.

-- Marsha (acorn_nut@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999.


taz (Chez)(thewuz)

You write, "And ed, you have 3 degrees and you're still a maintenance worker?"

I've posted before what my work is, if you want to believe I'm a maintenance worker fine.

Ed - I obviously got more from my education the these guys P.S. It pays pretty good.

-- Ed (ed_bridges@yahoo.com), November 22, 1999.



You make some good points Marsha. In my area there is a service for elderly and handicapped that is offered for free, as there is in many areas. That is why I'm not going to worry about my grandma in a wheelchair (if I had one). Another reason is that family takes care of our older ones in my family. They are taken care of. I do know what the status of my transit authority is because I have attended meetings, and read the rider alerts. When the transit service says that it is because of cuts due to I-695, I have no trouble believing them. I can also believe that funding for roads, highways, and services related will be cut. Perhaps the transit system is bloated in SOME places. If officials wasting our money is a problem, is taking the money away from them a solution? Does any voter actually realize what the government has to go through to spend money? Personally I think that people complain too much about the country that our government officials have built for us over the last 200 years. We Washington residents also complain a lot for people that don't have a state income tax. Maybe that's why our other taxes are so high. Would anyone out there be willing to have a state income tax? I would. That would cut back other taxes, wouldn't it? Marsha, I'm not trying to be sarcastic with any of my posts. These are my true feelings, maybe they seem crazy to you. I also don't think that Jeremy was being sarcastic when he made the Mercedes comment. That comment was very true. If you can't afford the tabs, don't buy the car.

-- cave canine (cavecanine@hotmail.com), November 23, 1999.

"If officials wasting our money is a problem, is taking the money away from them a solution?" YES

"Does any voter actually realize what the government has to go through to spend money?" YES

"Personally I think that people complain too much about the country that our government officials have built for us over the last 200 years." EXCUSE ME??? Yep, that was all those government officials fighting and dying at Concord and Lexington, in the Ardennes, at Guadalcanal and Iwo Jima. Bless their little bureaucratic bones.

"We Washington residents also complain a lot for people that don't have a state income tax." I've paid state income taxes. I didn't complain any less then.

"Maybe that's why our other taxes are so high." Naw. More likely we just waste the money.

"Would anyone out there be willing to have a state income tax?" Not if I can help it. Been there, done that. Learned my lesson. "

"I would." GREAT. Send your money in to the State Treasures. Or if you prefer, Oregon is South. California is FURTHER south. Hey, Canada is North. It'll give you all the taxes you want.

"That would cut back other taxes, wouldn't it?" Surprisingly, No! Not in my experience at least.

"Marsha, I'm not trying to be sarcastic with any of my posts." We believe you.

"These are my true feelings, maybe they seem crazy to you." Your feelings are fine. Your arguments, however, are indeed crazy.

"I also don't think that Jeremy was being sarcastic when he made the Mercedes comment. That comment was very true." No it wasn't. It was just playing the class warfare card. Any time liberals haven't a leg to stand on, they will play the class warfare card, the racism card, or the "I'm a better person than you are" card. These come out of the book, Liberal reason, Volume one. There is no volume two.

"If you can't afford the tabs, don't buy the car." If you can't afford to commute, live in the dorm.

-- Mark Stilson (mark842@hotmail.com), November 23, 1999.


You were not very effective blowing that one off Cave. Why would a Grandma in a wheel chair not have her Sunday service eliminated? Especially if it's free? If it isn't eliminated, and your service is, perhaps that tells you something? Like she NEEDS it more than you. In the 4 counties closest to me, ALL sunday service, even paratransit, is being eliminated. It probably is in your area too....but if you admitted it, then you would seem....selfish.

Your posts don't seem crazy, they seem absurdly selfish. I interpret you to be saying "what about me, I'm going to lose my bus service?" We get accused of being selfish for wanting to keep our own money. You need that repeated for you? OUR OWN MONEY! NOT YOURS! You want me to subsidize your transportation. Why would I want to continue to pay $800 a year on my new Mercedes (hey, why not, my 93 Ford is getting old. Wait, can I have a Lincoln instead?) just so you can have it easier? At least others in this forum, like d, aren't crying over what personal loss they must now endure. They show a genuine concern for others. Here is what you wrote on another thread today: To those opposed to helping out others with tax money:

I'm against welfare because it benefits only certain people. Public transit is just that, PUBLIC. Maybe if more people rode the bus, they would feel the pain too, and the traffic problems would go down in the Seattle area, and the pollution would go down...

-- cave canine (cavecanine@hotmail.com), November 22, 1999

Does that sound selfish to you?

If you think our government officials are the ones who built this country over the last 200 years, your education is highly suspect. Did someone else take your SAT's? I would suggest you discontinue your remarks about what you assume to be MY lack of education. Since you have just overwhelmingly proven yourself to be deficient in history. Perhaps your school system eliminated history? NOT!

If all you can resort to are personal attacks, when you are unable to win a debate, then you are only here to cause disruption, not engage in any type of meaningful debate.

-- Marsha (acorn_nut@hotmail.com), November 23, 1999.


"I've posted before what my work is, if you want to believe I'm a maintenance worker fine."

Well why dont you just fill us in again, Special ed... I'm sure that everyone would be thouroughly entertained to hear about your "real job" (A tax leach)

Oh yes, then go on and legitimize your government job by telling us how hard you worked to get to this point (as a tax leach), and how valuable your position is (still a tax leach).

Oh, about your 3 degrees, what state-funded (tax leach) school did you attend?

A rock-throwing champ that lives in a plate-glass house comes to mind...

-- Kevin Peterson (grave@yahoo.com), November 23, 1999.


Kevin

Just how many years did it take you to get through the 3rd grade.

Ed - smoking cigars and having a good time.

-- Ed (ed_bridges@yahoo.com), November 23, 1999.



Still waiting to hear about the life of a tax-leach, ed

-- jkm (mchale@hotmail.com), November 23, 1999.

Kevin--"Still waiting to hear about the life of a tax-leach, ed"

D@@D, THIS R@X. UR S@ K3WL. M@R3 PL33Z.

Were you planning on adding something of value to our discussion?

-- Brad (knotwell@my-deja.com), November 23, 1999.


Mark-

"'Personally I think that people complain too much about the country that our government officials have built for us over the last 200 years.' EXCUSE ME??? Yep, that was all those government officials fighting and dying at Concord and Lexington, in the Ardennes, at Guadalcanal and Iwo Jima. Bless their little bureaucratic bones."--- Were Washington, Jefferson, Eisenhower, among other office holders? Don't sound so surpised when you find out those were presidents, and how many other government officials have served. Does John McCain ring a bell?

Admittedly, the situation of state income tax was speculative. I have no idea what people would think about that, or how it would change taxes. I'm also quite a conservative, and I didn't understand the connection to liberalism with the "don't buy the car if you can't pay the tabs." Sorry.

Marsha-

"Does that sound selfish to you?"---regarding welfare---Yes, it does. And much like you, I don't want to subsidize someone else's problems. My transit service I have paid for as a part of my student fees and tuition. You and I both pay for my transit.

"If you think our government officials are the ones who built this country over the last 200 years, your education is highly suspect. Did someone else take your SAT's? I would suggest you discontinue your remarks about what you assume to be MY lack of education. Since you have just overwhelmingly proven yourself to be deficient in history. Perhaps your school system eliminated history? NOT!"---Who built our country then? The people? And did they not elect government officials? I have NEVER remarked about your education, maybe someone else did. My SAT's? Might be embarrassingly high if I announced them. 'Why did you stay in state?' you would say.

"If all you can resort to are personal attacks, when you are unable to win a debate, then you are only here to cause disruption, not engage in any type of meaningful debate."---I have NEVER resorted to personal attacks. Maybe someone else did. Do not confuse me with other people on here. I use only one name.

I have an open mind, some of your points (everyone) I agree with. Can you try to see my point of view without automatically discounting it?

-- cave canine (cavecanine@hotmail.com), November 23, 1999.


Cave says: I have NEVER resorted to personal attacks. Maybe someone else did. Do not confuse me with other people on here. I use only one name.

On a different thread cave says:Does anyone know why my posts disappeared?? greenspun.com : LUSENET : I-695 Thirty Dollar License Tab Initiative : One Thread ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

.....well, besides the fact that they pose good questions refuting the usefulness of I-695. I was just wondering where they went, maybe acorn_nut or iman said something wrong and they were deleted....?

-- cave canine (cavecanine@hotmail.com), November 21, 1999 Answers I think Marsha was threatening to do harm to iman. It was a heated discussion that got carried away.

-- samo (amos@333.com), November 21, 1999.

I have an email from the webmaster that says both of the above posts came from the same place, p4-dyn202.crcwnet.com

Can anyone guess why his other posts have were deleted?

-- Marsha (acorn_nut@hotmail.com), November 23, 1999.


Marsha-

I have NOT done anything improper on this board as far as I know. No name calling, or threats. Write the webmaster and ask if this is true. Perhaps it was you that got the messages deleted. I noticed your acorn_nut address was removed as one of the ones that is sent a copy of every message. Can you explain this?

I have HONESTLY NOT used another name. Maybe someone has the same ISP as me. I was genuinely wondering why my messages were deleted because I'm a newcomer to this board. I would not answer my own post, or else why would I ask the question in the first place? Soon I'm going to give up on you Marsha. Circumstantial evidence does not have any weight in America, or else OJ would be in jail.

"p4-dyn202.crcwnet.com"---I believe that this is a server address, which could be shared by several hundred or thousand clients, or users. An IP address is what differentiates between different users. If 'samo' and I had the same IP address, then you would have an argument.

-- cave canine (cavecanine@hotmail.com), November 23, 1999.



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