WOW!!! i was shaking when i left price costco today in VA. i happened to casually bring up the subject of Y2K when i was check out with a few last minute items. i thought this clerk was going to take my head off and i had all i could do to hold my tongue.

she said, it was all a trick just to get people to spend their money and that she had the lord and therefore she didn't need to prepare. that she had seen specials on tv and they said things are fine. then she went on and on and on with all the SPIN THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS FEEDING AMERICANS. i was so mad, i finally said something to her about "what was she going to do when the distribution chain totally breaks down in a few months"-- to which she said, "what distribution chain?". enough said for me. i said, "good luck lady, you are going to need it."

that is it for me. the time has come. i have said my last word on the subject. either people have prepared or they haven't. no more sharing the word anymore.

-- tt (, November 20, 1999


Ooh boy did you hit a nerve with me on that, because I'd been predicting unbalanced naysayers would pop off, some as checkers, just as you had described.

I thought I was really pushing imagination to picture such a scenario and it seems not.

-- Paula (, November 20, 1999.

tt. I hate to say it, but you bring on this type of reaction on yourself. The time for spreading the word has long ago ended. If you are asked, I would certainly share information to anyone who asked. Will I go out of my way to spread the word? No way. Just remember that many times we use scanning ID cards to buy things, like at Costco and similar places. Nothing like a dyed in the wool polly who can learn your name and address with barely a month before the end of the year. I would keep my mouth closed.

-- smfdoc (, November 20, 1999.

smfdoc is right. It's far too late to warn pollies at this point. You only put yourself and your family at great risk by doing so. Concentrate on what you need to do to stay alive. Stay focused on that.

-- (its@coming.soon), November 20, 1999.

Gotta love the part about the government spin. We all know the government is lying to us, and we all resent it. But what *are* these lies? Simple -- they're anything we don't agree with!

-- Flint (, November 20, 1999.

I agree with the two others the time speak of the subject is long past. It'd be better for another reason. It's obvious due to a few leaks the 3 month pipeline shattered and not much is going to be coming in. We've all read how the end of January will be food shortages. If they panic now they will bring on famine much sooner than it had to be and for a much longer period of time. It's in the self-fulfilling prophecy stage for the naysayers. In short, if they panic or all race out to "prepare" now it is an act of mass suicide.

-- Paula (, November 20, 1999.

I think a large part of the complacency on Y2K is due to a very unique perceptual problem. I think that to understand the implications of the problem it requires a certain area of the brain which is more active in some and less active in most. Probably the area of the brain that has to do with abstract concepts, complexity, astronomical scales, imagination, that sort of thing.

The reason I say that is because we are witnessing a consistent pattern of people who think we are nuts because they are simply not capable of perceiving how such a small error could develop to a problem of global proportions. Asking them to understand all of the possible sequences of reactions that could occur is like asking them to solve the Rubik's cube puzzle... most will just get frustrated and quit.

Even if they want to understand it, if they are not capable, it angers them. I mentioned to someone recently that the people who are being complacent may end up going to their bank and wondering why they are closed. He laughed and said, "because it's Saturday, of course the bank will be closed" (speaking of course about Jan. 1st). I found this rather incredible then it occurred to me that there are an awful lot of people out there who think that January 1 is the only date that anything could happen. Don't be suprised to see a lot of people laughing if things are not that bad on Jan. 1, because they are so completely ignorant it doesn't even cross their mind that things could happen later on.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 20, 1999.

Always pay in cash. tt, you should have told the checker if it weren't for Y2K consumers, she wouldn't have a job and she probably won't have one next year. If it's a BITR, people will be eating and using their supplies well into the 3 and 4th quarter of next year. Consumers will also be paying more for goods due to the price of oil, there will be layoffs in many industries for sure. I simply think of my preparedness as a safety cushion, and I will survive in any event.

-- bardou (, November 20, 1999.

Right on!

Anyone who has prepped with all kinds of foods is not so stupid as to think that if all is well Jan.1, then they can just start dipping into their rations. Far better to pay a little more at the stores, if they are still open, due to the expected price inflation due to spot shortages, than to consume your stash.

BTW, what do you think of the idea, I'm sure mentioned by others, but also by me a few days ago, of stocking up by putting on some weight from now until the end of the year?

There are many, I'm sure, who have thought of this months ago, and will probably put themselves up by 10-30 lbs. That amount of body fat alone is good for WEEKS of restricted/no food, and no-one can confiscate it from you!

I do believe we will see a "creeping" malaise set in to the system of supply/JIT starting...well, actually, it has started at VW!

As to the gas situation, unfortunately we will have no control over price creep or rationing if this happens in 2000(I personally rate this specific segment of the economy as having a >90% chance of happening).

-- profit of doom (, November 20, 1999.


It's pathetic. We warn them. They don't listen. We pray for them. They remain asleep.

May our Living God have mercy on the idiots.

-- Randolph (, November 20, 1999.

"Profit of Doom"--did you have to mention that 30 extra pounds? They say American's are the fattest people around. Maybe things aren't looking too bad afterall for all the fat unprepared people. However, they will be very pissed if they can't get their McDonald's and Burger King fix.

-- bardou (, November 20, 1999.

Cuddluppy, the polly/doomer line has been drawn, the DGIs are insecure and defensive when the subject comes up. When asked, say you want to gain 30 lbs. Profit-of-doom, 30 lbs of lard will prepare you for Y2k! I.e., a heart attack on 12/31.

-- W (, November 20, 1999.

Attention all overweight people:

Don't stress out! Your blubber will sustain you when the governmental rations run out.

Sheesh. Get a grip on your love handles...

-- Randolph (, November 20, 1999.

tt: I never mentioned Y2K to strangers, ever. First of all, I am quite shy around people I don't know. Secondly, I got such an unexpectedly hostile reaction from my FAMILY and FRIENDS that I didn't dare risk mentioning it to total strangers.

Just today I bought a pressure cooker from a department store (I am SO proud of myself!!! What a fuel saver! ANd to think I almost forgot that item...) And the checker, a guy not over 20 asked me what it was, real casual-like, just making conversation and being curious. I told him, "It's a pressure cooker." He said "Oh, yeah! My mom used to have one. I didn't think people still bought those anymore" (tis true, they only had three on the shelf and the boxes were totally covered with a deal, tho) Anyhow, I could have said, "Oh yeah, well its so we can save cooking fuel on the ol' campstove if the shit hits the fan in January!" but who knows how he woulda reacted (and the old couple behind me)? Instead, I mumbled "Yeah, they're great" and left.

profit of doom: I LOL the first time you mentioned the weight thing and you got me laughing again! I have that extra 30 pounds and have had it since our beautiful daughter was born. Sheepishly I will admit she is almost 5. Anyway, you really can't LIVE off the fat (I wish!) but it could mean the difference betw survival and starvation. Lemme give you an example: I saw a lady at the store today who was an absolute toothpick. Either she was anorexic or had the world's fastest metabolism and also never went through puberty. Anyway, in a food shortage in which pretty much everyone is losing weight just as a result of a more restricted diet, if she loses 5 pounds she is DANGEROUSLY underweight (I honestly thought she already is) but if I lose as much as even 30 pounds I am still ok. I would be considered close to my ideal weight at that point. Could actually even lose more beyond that. Once we get down into the 1-teens though, I would be dangerously underweight. I am 5'8" and medium- framed.

But, yeah, if you are at your ideal weight or below, it probably wouldn't be too bad of an idea to put on a bit. Should be pretty easy this time of year. Be aware, though that if things aren't bad enough to cause food shortages that you will have to lose the weight on your own (if it bothers you, that is). My extra 30 doesn't really bother me. I carry it really well (you would never guess it is that much to see me) probably b/c of my height and frame. I look really thin at my ideal weight.

-- preparing (, November 20, 1999.


Relax. Your weight's OK. Exercise and be cool...

-- Randolph (, November 20, 1999.

Hawk, I'd agree that some folks might lack the conceptual ability to fathom the potential impact of Y2K. But I would attribute the complacency primarily to other things. One is the repulsion to anything that could threaten our way of life, our affluence. Another is the hectic routine that most of us live, which tends to impede sustained thought about any subject that isn't already part of that routine. I've brought up the subject of Y2K with several colleagues who have demonstrated more than sufficient conceptual ability in their work to be able to grasp it, and they seem well on the way to getting it, but within a few days, these thoughts apparently were displaced by all the other stimuli in their lives.

-- David L (, November 20, 1999.

tt - just ask the person who has the lord and so doesn't believe in preparing how they feel about Noah. Should Noah NOT have built the Ark? Tell them (if you choose to tell them anything) that you TOO have the Lord... and you were told to prepare.

But I agree... the time for this is past. Best to keep quiet now.

Darwin's law is Y2K compliant. Won't be long now.

-- Linda (, November 20, 1999.

Randolph: why are you suggesting to relax? I say in my post that the extra 30 pounds doesn't really bother me.....

-- preparing (, November 20, 1999.

Folks, using y2k as an excuse to gorge over the holidays just don't get it.

A high caloric intake will increase the number of white fat cells (this is where our body stores it's starvation ration). The problem with this is the white fat cells are the LAST thing the body will convert to energy. The very first thing the body uses (aside from the normal levels in the blood) is the BROWN fat cells stored under the skin and around the muscle tissue. The second thing that gets converted to energy is MUSCLE TISSUE. The body will hold onto the white fat cells (actually, they're yellow) until the very last. In the meantime, your body looks like hell (because there is no fat pad left under the skin) and you feel like hell (because the muscles left are doing the work of many) and you're still carrying around that big but and/or the big gut.

Do yourself a long term favor and start getting in shape. There's still time for that and if it's a BITR, just think of how you can show off your new body at the 'Eat Crow" party that the pollies will insist on having.

-- Lobo (, November 20, 1999.

Yeah. I'm 50lbs overweight an' goin' like a train. I NEED Y2K real bad.

-- Fatso (, November 21, 1999.

I have a few extra pounds, but fat is not fun.

Hawk, I think you're right about abstract conceptual ability. I think you've placed your talon on it.

People I casually mention Y2K to for most the most part say it's hype.

-- Mara (, November 21, 1999.

LOL! Thanks Mara, that's funny (my talon!) bwaahhaahah.

Also, as David L. said, it is most likely a combination of factors, and I would strongly agree that the increasingly hectic pace of our lives has a lot to do with it. For many people who are busy, their first impression of Y2K is that it can go to the bottom of their priority list, but if they took juuuust enough time to "get it" it would go to the top of their list.

But I think that the conceptual brain thing is part of it for many people. See, I've always been the type that stares in wonder at the stars at night, where many people don't even notice them. I've noticed quite a few of us on the forum who are good conceptual thinkers.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 21, 1999.

Hawk -- Conceptual ability, as you mention, is IT.

Despite all the Christian blather about creationism -- we share a great overlap of DNA with other primates. (97% (?) or more.) A chimp, for example, is fairly intelligent, even having some conceptual ability. But its ability to think even about tomorrow is nonexistent.

Most people, even though nominally human, are only a minor improvement over the chimp in that area. A relatively few, such as us, have a higher ability to relate events and concepts, and to consider the future, than most. The Bell Curve rules (despite protestations of leftist bleeding heart egalitarians) in this regard as well as in height, beauty, musical ability, etc.

The great mass of people are, and have been, carried by the relatively few who can think ahead for at least a planting or hunting season. Without genetics (note to Christians: evolution) that selected for at least a few people in each tribe to think ahead (OR ELSE) we would still be hunter gatherers being selected for or against by the ability to see the necessity to at least get out of the way of the glaciers.

-- A (, November 21, 1999.

You're right A! That is so true. It's like we have the ability to actually visualize the image in our minds of something in the distant future. Most people don't think more than a week or two in advance, they make plans, but they don't form an image of what it will be like. We are the ancestors of the primates that invented the wheel, while everyone else just stood around wondering what the hell they were doing! That's it! :-)

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 21, 1999.

Ooops, meant to say descendants, not ancestors! (but you knew that)

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 21, 1999.

I always say stuff like: Boyscout camp out, cabin pantry is bare, etc. I gave up trying to get the DGI's to understand. They're doomed and I don't care anymore.

-- anonymous (, November 21, 1999.

A - Despite all the Christian blather about creationism -- we share a great overlap of DNA with other primates. (97% (?) or more.) A chimp, for example, is fairly intelligent, even having some conceptual ability. But its ability to think even about tomorrow is nonexistent.

Even ants and squirrels save food for the 'morrow.

Beware the Squirrel King.... smarter than your average Costco checker... and out for revenge.

-- Linda (, November 21, 1999.

Cleaning out the gene pool will be a good thing.

-- goldbug (, November 21, 1999.

Factoid: 1 lb fat = 5000 calories = 2 days sedentary in the warm / 1 day active in the cold.

-- Colin MacDonald (, November 22, 1999.

"Despite all the Christian blather about creationism -- we share a great overlap of DNA with other primates. (97% (?) or more.) "

To me, this is an indication that God practices object-oriented programming and code re-use.

-- Macro Evolution (is@a.sham), November 22, 1999.

I think the accurate figure on the caloric content of 1 lb. of body fat is more like 3500 calories.

-- MinnesotaSmith (, November 22, 1999.

Macro "To me, this is an indication that God practices object-oriented programming and code re-use."

Excellent response, although that's all genetics is anyway -- genes and memes are the objects.

The "Macro" in macro-evolution is GOD.

"Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs. I am haunted by waters." - Norman Maclean, A River Runs Through It

-- preparing... (, November 22, 1999.

When your caloric intake is reduced, your metabolism slows. You don't "live" as fast, so to speak. Laboratory animals (rats? can't remember for sure) have been shown to live much longer if they are given proper nutrition but are somewhat lacking in calories.

Also, energy comes from burning fat or muscle tissue partly based on your hormones. A sedentary man will have lower body fat and higher muscle mass than a sedentary woman, all else being equal, because of the hormone difference. Men supposedly also lose fat (weight) faster than women on diets because of that.

A woman can get a similar effect by exercising, but her body still works differently. For example, long distance running can change a woman's hormone balance, and thus calcium absorbtion, etc., so that what gives a man bones of greater density can actually reduce her bone density. That's also why medical research done on men may or may not apply to women, as medical people are now realizing.

Not to be OT or anything...

-- S. Kohl (, November 24, 1999.

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