This is too important to let die. Also..dbvz, here's your answer.

greenspun.com : LUSENET : I-695 Thirty Dollar License Tab Initiative : One Thread

See original post for dbvz' question

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001mtM

dbvz...here's your answer.

These two areas are two of many, but addressing the two issues I state the following:

Per the pensions, excessive surpluses should be returned to the employee and the employer. In many a case they are between 125% to 220% funded. Example:

Arizona State Retirement fund after allowing for 125% funding would allow for a 9 billion dollar refund.

[Try to comprehend what this would mean to Washington state]

Per Trust and Agency funds, surplus revenue over the dedicated amount is just that, surplus revenue. Keep in mind most states have experienced a 100% growth in revenue taken in annually in the last ten years, When comparing the liquid net worth of the private sector with composite government's in a state (all local government) against the private sector, the private sector is now dwarf in comparison in most cases. I guess we set the blue print for Russia to follow to establish true productive absolute financial control over the population. The individual is so busy looking at a leaf, branch or tree in the forest, he has become oblivious to the forest. Composite liquid investments of all local corporate governments (54,000 separate corporate entities) and federal now equals in excess of 60 trillion dollars.

The corruption and empire building coming forth therefrom is reprehensible. The public let it happen. We left the vault door open, and in fact 95% would say "vault, what vault?" and those sharp little crackers said thank you very much, have a good day. There is no gray area here. The stupidity in the public lies in not comprehending the decades of investment growth. The public is always directed to the annual operating budget which is insignificant when compared to the composite investment and corporate ownership now in hand by composite government. The wake up call is given. The hour is late and the call mostly unheard.

Walter Burien

-- C Deitchman (cdeitchman@solar.stanford.edu), November 18, 1999

Answers

I see a reference to another state, and a sermon; but not an answer. In Washington, the pension funds are managed by the state for he government workers. Some of that value is the paper worth of the stock market, and that could change in a few weeks significantly. As for returning any excess to the workers and the government employers, they do that. About mid-1999 the paper worth of the investments was the basis for a big cut in the contribution rate required of employer and employee.

If you have a specific point about these funds, I would like you to state it, and present some documentation that supports it. If the point is government collects and spends a lot of money, we already knew that. It takes a lot of money to build and maintain the infrastructure, and provide government services. What part of that do you suggest be reduced or eliminated?

Why do you create a new thread at every opportunity?

-- dbvz (dbvz@wa.freei.net), November 19, 1999.


D, can you read?

Re read the header "This is too important to let die" You'll have your answer why it was reposted.

I happen to think this issue is far greater than even I-695 itself, but great ideas usually have humble beginnings.

Here you go...have fun getting your questions answered.

http://www.cafrman.com/main.htm

-- CDeitchman (cdeitchman@solar.stanford.edu), November 29, 1999.


Again, if you have a point state it. What you presented didn't make one.

-- dbvz (dbvz@wa.freei.net), November 29, 1999.

PS:

I did check the site you referenced; and it had a lot of notes about state A, or state ABC, etc., and drew a lot of conclusions on data that was not available to be checked. If you think you are on to something, go to a state or local agency budget and do the analysis. Some are holding more than they should. Others are not holding enough for prudent management. Much of what you have referred to, are funds that are held in trust for some person, purpose, or project. Make your point. So far it is just an inference.

-- dbvz (dbvz@wa.freei.net), November 30, 1999.


As of the end of November 1999, there are two, first of their kind, CAFR information Web site now up and running that were created by the public's effort for disclosure.

The first site is: http://www.CAFRMan.com

This site was created by a conservative Financial Auditor of 30 years who has realized the extent of composite government's financial takeover in this country's wealth and knows it is time for immediate public corrective action. The creator of CAFRMan.com, wishes to be known only as CAFRMan. The site is designed to be an aid to the public in understanding the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR) and showing the basics for identifying surpluses amassed by any City, County, State, etc.

CAFRMan does not point the finger at any specific corporate government entity, but uses examples from current CAFR reports to show from a cursory review that substantial surpluses are there and can be viewed by examination. The site also gives a fairly good explanation of the "Game" of how government directs the public's attention to the Annual Operating Budget (AOB), while the true revenues being held, many times over that of the AOB, are being kept obscure from public viewing or comprehension. The site also provides a basic Excel Worksheet for the individual user to fill in the blanks on the work sheet from obtained financial information from any CAFR. This Excel Worksheet technique helps to identify obvious surpluses and automatically shows the local economic effect of returning the surpluses to the public. The site should be Taxpayer 101 reading by all in this country. The philosophy of CAFRMan and this site is to identify surpluses from specific areas, and then return the surpluses to the public.

The Second site is: http://www.CAFR.net

This site which is under construction and being developed by; Walter Burien, gives the current available links to download government CAFR Reports From: Cities, Counties, States, Pensions, Financial / Enterprise Authorities and School Districts. The CAFR Links will be Updated as they become available.

The site as it develops will focus on identifying surpluses from the specific local and Federal government entities. The main philosophical differences between CAFRMan.com and CAFR.net, is as follows; CAFR.net, will focus it's efforts on the identification of surpluses for re-appropriation to what is called a Citizen's Investment Trust Account (CITA). The CITA being established by public initiative. The CITA will have the objective of eliminating all taxation directly from the interest and dividend return from the CITA which will pay for the local governments AOB. The CITA will be exclusively established within that local government by public initiative as a Pension Fund Trust for the taxpayer to accomplish that end. Additionally the CITA will be designed to return a dividend check to the local resident upon excess returns being accomplished by the CITA over and above satisfying that local government's AOB.

Both sites, CAFRMan.com and CAFR.net have the same objectives, that being the identification of surplus revenue and the return of that revenue to the people. The difference between the two sites and applied philosophies is the manner for the return of the revenue. CAFRMan.com does not try to change the principle of operation or size of government, but allows for a more in-depth accountability of governments revenue taken and amassed from the public which is not needed for the AOB.

CAFR.net, will primarily look to recommend changing the principle of operation of government through public initiative for the future elimination of all taxation through the operations of the CITA. The CITA will also focus on the downsizing or sale of government business venture operations that are not directly part of the AOB, back into the hands of the private sector.

Both Internet Web sites, with their different approaches, steer towards the same mandatory effect, full financial disclosure to the public of the vast revenue and wealth held and developed over decades by government and kept obscure from public viewing.

The Door of disclosure to the public is now opening. It's time to enter, look, learn and take immediate effective action.

Walter J. Burien, Jr. C. E. V. I. P. O. Box 11444 Prescott, AZ 86304

Telephone: 1-520 445-3532 E-mail: cevi2000@aol.com --------------------------------------------------------



-- cdeitchman (cdeitchman@solar.stanford.edu), November 30, 1999.



I understood the implication in the material I read on the site. I still don't see anything that indicates any Washington goverments are holding excess cash. If you know of any, present that for review and discussion. Again, so far it is just an inference.

-- dbvz (dbvz@wa.freei.net), November 30, 1999.

D, you truly don't understand the implications if you are simply citing Washington governments.

This is nationwide on a city, county, state and federal level. Most are using the double bookkeeping method which is a grey area of legality, nonetheless, there are funds, and plenty of them on all levels that are just sitting there, which are capable of being mobilized to pay for shortfalls in the budget of city, county, state and federal expenses.

-- C Deitchman (cdeitchman@solar.stanford.edu), December 01, 1999.


I didn't say you are wrong, just that you have given no evidence. Give some evidence.

-- dbvz (dbvz@wa.freei.net), December 02, 1999.

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