Help Please! Don't know how to explain to my DGI husband and son the basic reason non-compliant computers will NOT work after the rollover. Any answers much appreciated. : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Both my DGI husband and DWGI son have said to me "Don't worry, nothing is going to happen. So what, even if computers do think it is 1900 and not 2000 (it's only a date), why does your (or any) computer care if it says it's 1900 - it will still turn on and it will still work." I told them NO, it will not work. Don't even think the computer will boot up unless you fix the date. Then they say "Well, WHY won't it work?" I don't know how to answer that question.

I read the explanation for that a long time ago when I first started researching the y2k problem, but now I can't find the answer. If anyone can help me explain this to them I would appreciate it.

Please! I am not a troll. I need a serious answer. Will email this entire thread to both of them.

Thank you much!!!


-- flb (, November 14, 1999


Well there is this neat book called Timebomb 2000 written by some guy and his daughter. Have them read that..........

-- Ken Seger (, November 14, 1999.

flb--you are kidding right? this is the most simple and obvious part of y2k. even my mother gets this. most simply put 1900 and 2000 look the same to a computer if only two digits are used in calculations--therefore, the computer may not "know" how to respond when it encounters them or may respond in an unsatisfactory way. there are several issues to this but i think there are plenty of introductory articles that you can simply copy and send to your son and husband.

i could understand them having issues with embedded chips because most folks don't realize how prevalent they are in controlling automated processes so that human interaction is not required as much. honestly, if they don't get this part--they don't want to get it and they are expecting you to "go fetch" to try to convince them. plus there are so many good general descriptions out there on the basics--why would you expect folks to spoon feed your DGI husband and son? any y2k web site has at least one article on the basics. check out for their basic explanations,,, plus many more.

-- tt (, November 14, 1999.

Two r e a l simple answers.

1. Math 101. The difference between 1900 and 2000 is 100. Calculations will be based on 100 years passing since it last preformed what ever function it is preforming. Intrest, billing, maitanence of equipment ect.

2. 00 is an invalid date in a lot of computers. Why? Computers did not exist in 1900. There for, many programmers never told it to accept 00 in it's code. End result? Lockup, crash, or stops processing, waiting for valid information.

All of the above for some chippies. :)

Your wife knows of what she speaks. If the job does not get done, the puter is DONE or unreliable!

-- FLAME AWAY (, November 14, 1999.


Don't listen to these idiots. Most of them are just housewives and unemployed idiots with nothing better to do than act like they have tens of years of IT experience. You want some answers? Call the manufacturer of the PC(s) you own and talk to a few different technical people. They'll give you some satisfactory answers. If you want the real deal you have to go to the horse's mouth, not a bunch of fear mongering losers that speculate on everything, with little to no evidence other than what someone else with no experience once told them.

"If you live within five miles of Paul Milne, you're toast."

-- (, November 14, 1999.

Start here:

Gary North's home page

Y2K and the Global Trading System

Ye ar 2000 Facts, Forecasts, and Areas of Concern

And of course:

14 Days of Preps : Getting started on your Y2K preparations

TB Year 2000 Classic Preparation Archive

Don't wait for your family to GI. Do the preps yourself. 47 days and counting

-- Linda (, November 14, 1999.

fib, a year ago a post like yours was common; to see it today, only a month and a half before 1/1/2000, is quite amazing. Yet, I suspect, not atypical of a lot of situations.

I advise you to simply e-mail some of the "nearby" threads that we have going, such as the one about the city of Baltimore having the National Guard present at rollover due to fears of power outages, water system failures, etc. I think, especially at this late date, this would be far more convincing about the potential seriousness of Y2K, rather than literally trying to explain why YYMMDD[2]-YYMMDD[1] may cause technical problems if the result is a negative number.

47 days.


-- Jack (jsprat@eld.~net), November 14, 1999.

Explain to your husband exactly what he always thought he knew and does know, that the USA government upon looking at an especially dangerous situation doesn't "alert" the public but does the opposite. The most profound example being on nuclear war. It is historical fact that in a nuclear war between the USA and Russia, the Russian majority would live and survive on because the Russians had organized shelters for the overall mass, we on the other hand were to be left out with incoming ICBM's. Does he know history? Remind him in Ronald Reagans early career as President, Edward Teller made his infamous "We have lost the Cold War" speech yet the newer generations don't even consider themselves at risk of a nuclear hostility. To their minds its safe and if they even heard of the Cold War it is "back in the old fashioned days and certainly not their reality." We've never been on the globe so close and in so much danger of nuclear hostility as we are today. Do you see the government passing out information on how to prepare? How about training the populace in movements that would save their lives? India and Pakistan were on the verge of pushing the button in the past skirmish over the LOC and instead we saw Bill Clinton playing golf and having a day off. (It was a publicity stunt. The USA was heavily involved and India has since said if it hadn't intervened nuclear was was imminent.) If your husband is not an adult than divorce him. If he can't rise above the simplicity of a peasant and a child than he was a very lousy catch. At the end of 1997 the USA government stated we had lost the war against the "bug." The government is not going to hold anybodies hand in this. It is not going to play John Wayne and rally the people. The "Americans" are imported from a pool of six billion by the hundreds of thousands in a shot. It's concern is going to be retaining the soil and structure that makes the entity "America" but the people are a secondary concern. There ARE 6 billion more where they came from. America is a structure not a people that is why Mexicans or Asians who lived in cardboard shacks come over and almost immediately start living "normal."

He sounds unbright and very simple. I don't think I'd stick around too much longer but each to his or her own, you know?

As for you? You're an adult and I'm finding this "ask Daddy's permission" a bit too much. You are expected to make your own adult decisions and execute those decisions.

-- Paula (, November 14, 1999.

Sorry these aren't hotlinks (too much work!) Just cut and paste into your browser's address window. (NOTE: some of these links require Acrobat reader, available free from: Adobe, and some require RealPlayer, available free from: Real Audio.)


47 days


*** Top Priorities: Shelter, Water, Warmth, Food



Power (Heat/Light): doe.pdf Jones.ppt

Food and E-Prep Guidelines: c843d5a94039ba8825672300635889/$FILE/Y2Kn'ltr.pdf

*** Everything Else

Air Travel:,1575,ART-28177,00.html s=v/nm/19990507/tc/yk_reservations_1.html s=v/nm/19990623/tc/millennium_airlines_1.html


Banks: idx.html

Business, General: osform_template=pages/cnniwStory&ID=cnniw&storypath=News/Story_1999_10 _18.NRdb@2@13@3@72

Chemical Safety/Water Hazards:

Compliance vs Readiness:



Embedded Chips: Section=Main

General: thisStory=75682445 ac=000647321007942&rtmo=Vw3Dg8wK&atmo=999999d9&pg=/et/99/4/18/wbunk18. html +19990519+news,business/3773ad14.709,.h tml d.shtml es_mi ght_need_to_check_the_fine_print%2b.shtml

Government, Federal: idx.html p=/products/washfile/latest&f=99043003.glt&t=/products/washfile/newsit em.shtml am.shtml idx.html

Government, Municipal: srv/local/daily/feb99/district021999.htm id=2166&feature=&type=

Government, State:

Health Care: idx.html

International Issues:

http://www.the- p?nam=E1.html,4153,409107,00.html


Martial Law: p_story=147667&p_who=network,1249,80001844,00.html

Media Moronics: srv/issue/22_99a/printed/us/dept/my/my0122_1.htm

Millennium Viruses:

Nuclear Power:,1652,74056,00.html france s=v/nm/19990513/tc/utilities_yk_massachusetts_2.html



Senate Y2K Committee Report:

Solar Cycle 23:


War: strategic p=/products/washfile/topic/intrel&f=99072603.ppo&t=/products/washfile/ newsitem.shtml shtml

-- Dennis (, November 14, 1999.


Deep within the rant that anon just posted, there is a tidbit of decent information: "Call the manufacturer", etc., amongst all the personal attacks. You see, with this forum you'll have to get used to this type of response from some. Don't let it get you down or keep you from asking questions.

Good luck,

-- eve (, November 14, 1999.

Sorry about the crappy formatting. I'm not real good at HTML.


-- Dennis (, November 14, 1999.

It isn't so much a case of computes not working after rollover. It's a case of computer *not working correctly* after rollover.

Recent examples of "Y2K fixed" computers not working correctly are the published examples of Hershey's and Whirlpool. Late orders for supplies to make the product. Wrong orders to customers; "Washing machines? We ordered refrigerators!". Or problems like the World Bank, people not getting their paycheck for months because of cumputer problems. All three companies have been trying to fix these problems for MONTHS.

Non-published examples are scarier. The second largest coal-hauling railroad in the US, one which most of the eastern US depends on for coal delivered to power plants for their electricity, has quietly admitted that their "Y2K ready" computer system will have serious problems come rollover. They have been working on this problem FOR MONTHS.

People say that companies can fix their Y2K problems "in a few hours" after they happen. These are companies that have tried to fix their problems before Y2K and have found out that their "fixed" computers have problems that may end up getting people laid-off and the company ultimately out of business. And then what do the people who depend on these compnies do?

That's what Y2K computer problems are. Not computers refusing to run after midnight. I've seen older machines that do that, but most of those aren't the problem. Like I said earlier the problem is going to be computers doing things wrong and making business impossible. And then things go downhill from there.

As someone said years age: "To err is human. To royaly screw-up requires a computer." Y2K is going to prove that person right in spades.


-- Wildweasel (, November 14, 1999.


WOW! that's quite a library you've compiled. Thanks pal, I'm printing it right now.

-- cavscout (, November 14, 1999.

Hi Dennis

I've hotlinked your great list - sent you a private e-mail re same - to above address - re permission to re-post, plus...

Would you mind e-mailing me re this. Thanks.

-- larna (, November 14, 1999.

you go girl paula!!!! about that "housewives" comment anon. geesh. there is nothing wrong with housewives but i don't happen to be one. 20 years of full systems life cycle including bpr/systems analysis for large organizations. i wonder if you DGI's are just little picture people and can't think "big picture" so you don't see all those little cuts adding up.

-- tt (, November 14, 1999.

You know, Ms. "Cuddlepuppy" (I LOVE that!), it is really,REALLY hard to step back far enough to "get your arms around the big picture". I was discussing Y2K with a new friend last night. This guy is 71, and has spent a GREAT deal of his life in the military. He had NO CLUE (having listened exclusively to the audio/video media).

The hardest thing for me was to find a logical "starting point", from which I could begin a rational dissertaion of the total potential effects of the rollover. Every time I thought I'd found such a point, I had to backup AGAIN, because that industry was affected by OTHER industries, earlier in the supply chain.

Finally started with oil imports, and wasn't really satisfied THERE either. Oh well....

-- Dennis (, November 14, 1999.

Sincerely, thank you everybody for your comments.

Dennis, WHOW! You're great!! Thanks so much.

tt, unfortunately I'm not kidding, and that's what's so sad. It is just so basic - and long ago. I did find 'kind of' what I was looking for at one of the sites you recommended. Thank you.

I have been preparing for some time now. My husband goes along with it although he doesn't quiet know why. Have to give him credit though because he does listen, doesn't make fun of me for stocking up or how I feel, and all around he tries. For sure we don't think alike about such things. I do worry about my son. He lives about 20 miles away and since I can't convince him to prepare you can guess what he's getting for Xmas this year.

Paula, I hear what you're saying about our wonderful government, and I totally agree with you. Just want to let you know though that my husband even though he doesn't quiet GI, he is well educated and smart (so therefore not incapable of GI), and even though he doesn't really GI he is supportive (most of the time), and trust me I always make my own decisions. Sorry if I came off sounding like I needed their permission or something. Just want to explain the basic IT logic to them, and it has been so long ago that I couldn't remember 'exactly' how to do that. Something like the BIOS keeps track of the century 1999, and RTC keeps track of the year 1999 - and both must be in sync in order to run the operating system which runs the programs. Well something like that.

Wildweasel, guess that's the bottom-line and I'm a bottom-line kind of gal. You said, "It isn't so much a case of computes not working after rollover. It's a case of computer *not working correctly* after rollover."

Anyway, thank you all for your help! Very much appreciated.

I found this forum shortly after I began researching the y2k problem, and have been coming here almost daily ever since. Lots of good people and lots of good info. ;-)

Time is short and I wish all of you a safe trip through this big unknown.

-- flb (, November 14, 1999.

Dennis' list of URLs is now hotlinked and posted under a new thread titled Newcomers & All...

Thanks again Dennis.

-- Larna (, November 14, 1999.

Dennis, I just read your last post and wanted to say that for those of us who have really studied this problem it is sometimes hard to remember the simple stuff. That is what I was getting at I guess. Because the first time my son was willing to even 'listen' to anything about y2k, and I think he seriously wanted an answer as to why a computer wouldn't work, I didn't know how to answer the question. Should have but didn't.

P.S. And, for the spell check police - that would be quite (q.u.i.t.e) in my above post. Not quiet (like shhhhhhh). ;-)

-- flb (, November 14, 1999.

Underline OFF.

-- Dennis (, November 14, 1999.

Try rolling your computer forward. Of course when I did that on a pentium 90Hz it wouldn't even boot again until I took the CD out of a recently installed 24x CD drive. Still, you should be able to amaze your friends and relatives with the 1980 date.

-- PD (, November 14, 1999.

flb, Sorry to tell you, but your husband and son do get it - your computer will work even in y2k even with an incorrect date. Most standard software applications such as Word will also work - but what you might have trouble with is the date functions. If your'e using Win 3.1 or Win 95 and havent put in the y2k patches, then you will have aa funny looking year displayed in the file listing (;0 instead of 00). Other applications that use dates could have problems as well, some apps that perform date calculations such as financial software could really have problems. Consult with the computer and software manufacturers websites.

But one things for sure, standard PCs will boot up, will run. And many non-compliant PCs will let you enter the correct year manually in the year 2000 and will keep the date from then on - this depends on the bios. You may also be able to get a free flash bios upgrade, depending on the model you have. If your bios isn't upgradable, you may be able to get a free patch file from the manufacturer (Dells website has one) that will correct the date upon bootup. Standard PCs aren't "toast", no matter how old, patch files can fix the date.

It's kind of sad, but pretty indicative of the technical knowledge of many posting here, that very few will tell you that the computer will run. It's this kind of ignorance that breeds such fear of Y2K in the first place - the opportunists have a very easy crowd here. As a matter of fact, there will be those here who STILL follow such opportunists as Gary North, Michael Hyatt, and Jim Lord even after it's obvious that the Y2K rollover didn't bring the widespread significant problems the fearmongers predicted. As a matter of fact, NOW they're saying its going to be a sloooow, looooong, gradual thing, lol. Wake up you leemings, first they were saying its the 2K TRANSITION that will cause everything to go "kaput", now your going to buy THIS? ROFLMAO! You people amuse me :)


-- FactFinder (, November 14, 1999.

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