Well... my philosophy has always been to let the players decide on the rules, and to be honest, this should be no exception.

So I'll let you players decide - will you admit windows 35 into the tournament, or will you not allow it?

If you used it - several players will be able to play in the tournament - but there's always that recording bug from the DOS version - but can they playback on windows 35? that's for you players to judge!

This is a three day vote. Most votes wins. If it's a tie, then the motion is rejected. If it passes, the new rule would read MAME 34 FINAL in dos or WINDOWS 35 FINAL.

Currently, it's 3 - 0 - on IRC, Stig, GameFreak, and JSW have voted in the affirmative.

I await your responses...

-- Gameboy9 (goldengameboy@yahoo.com), November 07, 1999

Answers

If the reason we are using 34 is because of the re-recording feature and the windows version doesn't have that feature, I don't see why that can't use any windows version other than they may have an advantage if one of the tournament games have improved.

So I'll vote yes as long as there is no sigificant advantage using 35 versus 34. I do know that ssprint has changed between the two versions. But if it gets a few more people to play the tournament it ok with me.

-- Dave Kaupp (info@kaupp.cx), November 07, 1999.

I'll vote a resounding yes, as it's unfair to exclude people just because they might be running Windows NT.

Also, I might like to use the Windows version so I can play when I'm on IRC as well :)

Crash.

-- Crash (crash@tcp.co.uk), November 07, 1999.

I am sorry, but I most vote to the negative, even though it will mean I am out of the competition. Here is why... MAME34 and 35 are not compatible, but since the DOS and Windows versions of MAME of any particular beta or final are based on the same source code, they are compatible, at least enough someone who wants to cheat on the DOS version can get it to be done in Windows. I haven't seen any proof to the otherwise so far on this point, and if some can, I'll switch. If people are scared of cheating, then we have to do all that we can. Which unfortuately means for me, no Mame Tourney.

-- Chris Parsley (cparsley1@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

Has it been determined that mame35 recordings of the tournament games will playback with win35? I just made a recording with mame35 and a recording with win35, the win35 program played back the mame35 file just fine and the only difference between the two versions is the 32 marker in the header. I vote for disallowing win35 since you could cheat with mame35 (modify the header a little bit) and say you recorded it in win35.

-- Chad Hurwitz (churritz@cts.com), November 07, 1999.

i think the two people who voted agianst it are scared that windows users wiil kick there butt on the games on t2. yes allowing mame35 is for all the people who uses win nt or that have troubles to run mame34. you guy's want that so many people are left out the tournament if you vote agianst it .and yes we will kick your butt on all games lol gamefreak has spoken

-- gamefreak (gamefreake@yahoo.com), November 07, 1999.

I vote for disallowing as well. In addition to the easy way to record something in the DOS version and make it look like the Windows version, games differ with each version of MAME. For instance: From personal experience, I know that round 8 in Lode Runner II is a ENTIRELY DIFFERENT round, depending on which version of MAME you use. And I've noticed in several other games that there have been changes in gameplay as well. "Tricks" that weren't possible before, now are, and vice versa. Some games have become easier, some harder. Actually, it is my impression that Scramble is slightly harder on version .34 compared to the .36 beta versions...

I think that at the very least, this should be investigated first, and I think 3 days is way too short to determine whether there are any noticeable differences in the T2 games depending on which version is used...

Ben Jos.

-- Ben Jos Walbeehm (walbeehm@walbeehm.com), November 07, 1999.

It's disconcerting if there are differences in game difficulty between 0.34 and 0.35. It's less worrying that people could record (and cheat) in DOS MAME 0.35 and add a MAME32 header, since those same people could get the source of DOS MAME 0.34 and change it to allow cheating.

Chris.

-- Zwaxy (zwaxy@mail.com), November 07, 1999.

Game freak, not allowing Win35 into the tourney takes me out, and I have voted in the negative. If you can show evidence as to the contrary of their fears, then they will be more than happy to let you, and I, in.

-- Chris Parsley (cparsley1@hotmail.com), November 07, 1999.

Disallowing win35 because we're afraid of said users 'kicking our butts'? Color me amused. ;)

No vote from me this time.

Cheers, Brian McLean

-- Brian McLean (bmclean84@hotmail.com), November 08, 1999.

If they are so good to kick butts why can't they make win34 work on their computer? just because we don't allow win35 doesn't mean win34 will work. This is not a question of disalowing win users... win34 worked fine on an nt station i put it on a while back. are there problems using win34?

-- Chad (churritz@cts.com), November 08, 1999.

NO WAY!! Several points here. My experience has shown that most recordings made with DOS MAME 0.35 will playback just fine under Windows MAME32. Hence it would be possible to exploit the cheat. Also, if there are differences in gameplay between ROMSETS in 0.34 & 0.35 however trivial, we just can't allow that. There are no games that warrant a move up to 0.35. Also, anyone who uses NT also uses either DOS or WIN 9x, so you're argument doesn't work with me. Finally, why don't the naysayers to MAME32 v.0.34 just try it. You'll see it works just fine! You are only excluding yourselves but not participating.

-- Pat (laffaye@ibm.net), November 08, 1999.

The tournament 2 has begun and in no way , rules should be modified ! That's all ! What would you say if, for example, a tennis match referee decided to change the rules during a competition ? Some players don't want to participate in this tournament ? I think they make a big deal out of nothing : is it so difficult to get a version of mame 34 for all those computer programmers ?

-- lagavulin (darre@club-internet.fr), November 08, 1999.

I don't know if possible differences in gameplay between .34 and .35 are being looked into, but I found one:

Kung-Fu Master runs at 57 fps on .34, but only at 55 fps on .35. That means that it's slightly easier on .35. And that would mean a slight advantage of win35 users over all .34 users. And that would put us in a situation where people who don't have Windows are at a disadvantage...

Ben Jos.

-- Ben Jos Walbeehm (walbeehm@walbeehm.com), November 09, 1999.

It's a close call and a tough decision for me but...I gotta vote for the win35 allowance. Several good points have been raised on both sides. I do know for a fact that the win34 version of pbobble is unacceptable...just way too buggy to be decently playable. I know this is going to sound strange coming from me in light of my recent post, but I'm going to have faith in the win35 users to not do anything that would raise eyebrows and let everyone's conscience be their guide as to what to do and how to be a fair participant in T2.

Remember MARPers (in case you forgot), there is no money and there are no prizes involved here. So don't get carried away. Last time I looked, my first place finish in T1 hasn't earned me a pay increase at work or a brand new car in my garage. Just a nice honor and that is the end of it. It didn't mean I was a better player than the other MARPers, it just meant that I had a good run for a short time. In other words, don't forget...this is supposed to be fun!

Arrrgghhh...enough rambling already!!

JoustGod

-- JoustGod (pinballwiz1@msn.com), November 10, 1999.

although i havent been participating in MARP (i see i still have alot of 1sts ^_^) or the MARP TOURNAMENT for quite a while now, this kind of question does interest me... if people out there are cheating on MARP in the first place then thats just foolish in my opinion, you prove nothing for allowing MAME32 v35 in the MARP TOURNAMENT, if only for the NT users out there, then thats a yes. if you suddenly see alot of MAME32 v35 recordings pop up then you will know something is up as MAME32 absolutely sucks for speed on all pc's and then you know someone is doing funny stuff! i will vote YES for MAME32v35 allowed in the next tournament as it will be quite easy to spot fraudulent INP's :)

Krool. live in fear

-- Krool. (kellyq@ihug.co.nz), November 10, 1999.