My Last Effort to Help My Family Get It Bombs....greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
I have been trying to help my parents and two brothers (all live in the same house about 40 miles from me) to understand why it is important that they lay aside some supplies for the last year, to no avail. My dad almost got it, but then he got a happy face letter from his city government about how they were totally "Y2K Ready" (whatever the hell that means) and was satisfied.
Well, today, we were going on a two hour,each way road trip to go to my great aunt and great uncles 70th wedding anniversary (yep, they are in their 90's), so I decided that might be a good time since they would all be captive for two hours. I took some of the best information I could find, really low key stuff and brought up the subject quite gingerly. I also took Gold Real's argument/math about embedded chips posted here a few days ago. I started to read it out loud, since there seemed to be a slight bit of interest, but it was quite hard to read aloud, really something you need to read yourself. Soon my 15 yr old brother was prounouncing me paranoid and my 26 yr old brother was pronouncing me a freak, then I was a paranoid freak, much to their giggling glee. My 26 yr old bro was making jokes about me making a tin foil oven in the front yard. I pointed out I wouldn't be doing that in the FRONT yard and that just got more laughs and pronouncements of my paranoia. Dad is saying nothing, mom is mumbling about how nothing is going to happen because THEY HAVE FIXED EVERYTHING. (sigh) Just call me Cassandra. They don't really care what we do, how much food we have or anything, they just don't want to be bothered with doing it themselves. One thing, though: I got to my 15 yr old brother (great, person w/the least amt of influence in the entire family). He said he would be laughing and me and my husband all next year. I looked at him and very passionately said that I honestly hoped that he did. I really, really, really hoped that we would be laughed at next year. He stopped and I saw a noticable change in his face. I told him I have never in my whole life wanted to be wrong more than now. He looked very sobered, not laughing, not even smiling. I felt so bad, he honestly looked scared. But hell, I thought, if that;s what it takes to get them to have more than 2 freaking days of food in the house! He turned and stared out the window for the next 50 miles. When my 26 yr old brother brought it up again, thinking the other bro would be his partner in laughing at me again, he just said he didn't want to talk about it. (BTW, I also have a 20 yr old sister, but she is on and off drugs and only shows up at my parent's house when she is homeless, broke, hungry, or all three...hasn't shown up in a while and it is thought that she is running from bounced checks and living w/a 45 yr old man.)
My mother, I can tell, doesn't even want to entertain the notion that anything might go wrong. Her hold on normalcy is tentative on good days as it is. Her dad died of a massive heart attack while in church just a year ago (she was with him and she was incredibly close to him), and the whole thing with my sister depresses the hell outta her--Prozac all the way. My dad, like I said, came the closest to getting it this last spring, but tends to be swayed by the majority.
Oh, well. I was trying desperately to think of alternative plans, like inviting them here for New Year's Eve, but we have only prepped for two adults and one child. Our food and water would last a much shorter time and there would obviously be more space, privacy and sanitation problems with 4 extra adults. Besides, they wouldn't come to our house for New Year's Eve. We do wish we could think of a single friend that would come here under the guise of celebrating (or hey even a GI friend, if we had one) so that we could have one extra adult with us. The only one we know of is active Army and couldn't come here anyway. He is not GI. Gave my husband a case of MRE's recently, thinking my husband has gotten interested in hunting and backcountry hiking. (another big sigh)
I am getting frustrated with my family, I have taken such a low-key approach to this, yet they are oblivious. I sometimes feel like saying, fine forget it, I have tried everything I know short of buying the food and supplies for you myself, but I can't afford it, so you are on your own.
Sorry this rambles, it's late, I am brain dead and worried.
Please tell me someone else is in this situation, feeling this way...wish so much we could figure out just one or two (max) adult friends who would come over before 12/31 who would be good to have around if TSHTF.
-- preparing (email@example.com), November 06, 1999
Look, you are not alone in this situation. I have a mother and SEVEN brothers and sisters. NONE of them will do anything at all. I first began to explain to them about this more than TWO years ago in September of 1997.
I explained in explicit detail. No avail. It is not a matter of intelligence or anyhting like that. It is simply this: They do NOT want to understand.
They could not care less.
I do not feel ONE iota of compassion towards a one of them. Not a drop. I will empathize with what they go through but I will not sympathize with them in the slightest. They deserve what they are about to get.
Everyone is obligated to review the evidence. They would BARELY do that. And so superficially that it would not have made a difference anyway.
If someone cared enough about them to go out of their way to warn them, suffer the indignity of their ill informed ridicule.....then I wash my hands of them. Period.
They deserve what they are about to get. In spades. If any one of them showed up begging for help, so help me, I would throw them out. They refused to help when it was time to prepare, now let them suffer the consequences of their own well deserved foolishness.
You can sit there and say that it is heartless to treat your 'own' family like that. And, I say, that they are NOT family if they do not ACT like family.
Paul Milne "If you live within 5 miles of a 7-11, you're toast"
-- Paul Milne (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 06, 1999.
Preparing, and Paul
I rarely touch this type of thread as it is to dear to my heart. I have talked to my father, my brother and my two sisters... the sisters claim that it is their husbands that will keep them from preparing....
We will prepare for Y3K was the response from my youngest sisters husband.
The oldest sister lives close enough, 20min by car, that I must worry about her, she works for a hospital, I hope they will need her and provide for her family....
It is all that keeps me going... these are trying times
Things will get worse before they get better....
-- Helium (Heliumavid@yahoo.com), November 06, 1999.
You sound a little depressed. I think it's prudent to mention your concerns to your family. Obviously some members of your family are insensitive. I have experienced this myself, to a lesser degree of course and with a different end result. It could be that you are upset about more than y2k. I hope you do realize that life will go on after y2k, maybe not in the same way as now, but it will go on. I guess the best thing I can suggest for you is to keep preparing in your own way. You must realize that not everyone is going to agree with you. It's also a good idea to utilize your network of friends. If you do not have a lot of friends to talk to, try making some new friends. Y2k does not have to be brought up. Y2k has the nasty habit of forcing us to become prisoners of it. Other interests are important to. It might be a good idea to go see some funny movies. Personally, I like to go bowling on the weekends to take my mind off of it. It does not make the problem go away per se, but it does take your mind of it for a while. Keep your spirits up and don't give up on your family. There's always hope. Good luck.
-- rc white (email@example.com), November 06, 1999.
I can relate to your plight. My mother and I have been trying to convince my brother to prepare just for his children's sake, but to no avail. Mom left printouts around her house that I shared with her, and she mentioned it from time to time when he stopped over to visit.
My mother gave up a couple of months ago, and is buying more stuff last-minute. I've helped my mother (75 yrs od)for over a year now with errands, extra wood, expanding the garden area, checking things and whatnot. We've assumed that our brother's family won't contribute much, if anything, to our efforts, but are expecting him to bug out to her place regardless.
Another family note: I posted here in June that my grandmother had a stroke and that we had to put her in a home. She was aware of Y2k and worrying about it a lot. When she passed away in late June, we actually heaved a big sigh of relief. It sounded sort of cold saying "that is one less person we have to prep for"...but if things get ugly, I'm sure that many can relate to this.
I'm glad I don't have children to worry about. I pray every night for a BITR, for the sake of my brother and his family. If I had children and even had the slightest doubt about the outcome, I'd be prepping just for their sake.
-- Tim (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 06, 1999.
At least my 78-year-old Mom gets it. Then today just went shopping with a good friend to work on getting some camping gear together... in case changing locations is not "optional."
My sister in Arizona just laughs. I can only *hope* she'll be okay. Other cousins and relatives, don't even want to go there. Sad.
At some point, you just have to let go... and bless them on their soul's journey.
(They may have to "get it" on the other side of the life divide).
C'est-ce la vie. Or not.
-- Diane J. Squire (email@example.com), November 06, 1999.
Amen to the wish/prayer to be WRONG. We have a daughter who refuses to listen. We hope that her husband will bring her around, but we can't become to closely involved for fear of alienating the daughter. All we could do was 'start the ball rolling' and hope (and pray).
I have friends who have seen the light. But they are overwhelmed at the problem and refuse to do much of anything. The reasons for not doing anything are bountiful.
Here is hoping that your family turns around, or that the situation doesn't require it.
-- just another (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 06, 1999.
I live in a small town outside of Bangor, Maine. I went to SAMS tonite to get another flat of staples.
Get this, Saturday night in Sam's Wholesale Club, November 6, 1999 - 55 days prior to THE rollover and the beginning of the worst economic crisis' this country has seen since the 30's - Y2K folks! Well, I was there from 6:00 P.M. until 8:45 P.M. Not ONE other person during that time was seen pushing a flat. The shoppers that were using carts appeared to not have much in them in the way of what could even be construed as preparedness or items needed for survival.
I now firmly believe what I've heard about most people waiting until the end of December before getting ready or the fact that only 1% are actually going to prepare seriously.
'Preparing',......your family is like most everyone's family, they cannot change their thinking now, otherwise they would have to admit all kinds of scary things they need to do or should have done in the last year. Keep getting ready - it's your obligation to yourself, your family, friends and your country. Don't push anybody at this point. Believe me, they'll be coming around soon - along with the rest of the USA and the world. Real soon.
-- Steve Kingster (email@example.com), November 06, 1999.
I too tire of trying to get my family and friends to just prudently prepare just in case. We all must feel like the ant workings his keester off while all the grasshoppers sing, play and make jokes.
-- DGBennett (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
We are all in the same boat preparing, we cant compete with the propaganda machine the Govt and media have installed to get our family members attention on this severe life threatening issue. Y2k will be the world's wake up call.
We have to look at God's word for wisdom and comfort in these last days before the CDC. When in the Bible when God sent his angles to LOT's house to warn him to leave because of the impending distruction that was about to occur where he was living and he and his wife were warned not look back. Remember what happened to Lot's wife when she looked back she turned to salt and perished. This was written in the bible as a warning to us. Soceity as in Lot's time has grow wicked and foolish. They will not heed the warnings of the humble servants who are acting on God's word to sound the alarm that There is a problem that needs our utmost attention,diligence and honesty to deal with. They are to stiff necked and attached to the lie of the false prosperity that corp america has spun. They built there house on sand instead of seeking the Rock of truth. You tried with all your heart to warn them, now leave them in God's hands. You take care of what God has intrusted to you and dont turn back.
Every prudent man acts with knowledge but a fool lays open his folly Proverbs 13:16
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Knowledge but FOOLS despise wisdom and instruction Proverbs 1:7
God's word makes it clear. If they dont heed wisdom they are fools, Love them in your heart but let them go. Remeber what happenened in Germany to the Jews who saw the trouble coming and didnt take heed of the train coming down the tracks with the facism that was taking hold in the Governments at that time. Watch the actions not the words. History is repeating itself. media is controlled by the power elite (suppression of freedom of the press) People incarcerated in arizona are not being release from prision when their time is up but moved into a privatised holding insitutions. We cant get a decent townhall on y2k to answer the important community preparedness questions These are warnings that our consititution is in serious trouble. If your family cant wrap there mind around that there is nothing you can do. I wish you peace in our Lord Jesus The Christ.
-- y2k aware mike (y2k aware mike @ conservation . com), November 07, 1999.
Preparing, there's nothing really you can do. People either can see the implications and are motivated to act, or they slip into the mass denial and push it away.
For some reason our family GI'd this year and have been steadily incrementally preparing. They have this competitive spirit and have gone much farther than we can -- generators, wood stoves, goats, barns, chickens, guns galore, etc. It's kinda funny; they understand it less, but have more $$ and instinctively know what to aim for.
Ashton is a dynamite hellfire animated Y2K prodder and has gotten many people to prepare at least for a month of "like a subduction earthquake." But still there are patients with whom we live for weeks who refuse to entertain the thought that anything can change over the next decades, except higher pill prices and more medical griping ...
-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
I have been on this wagon since Dec 17/97. In that time I have influence up to 100 people on an email list which I said goodbye to in Mar - too much $$$$. I have had success with my family. We are at ease now, they have prepared. When they come out to our farm, they will come with provisions. We are ready and try to go on with a normal life.
-- Tony (I'm done @some.listen), November 07, 1999.
My oldest brother is convinced nothing will happen because he saw the Dept. of Energy Secretary holding up the big "9/9/99" sign and saying that it was just like Y2K.
-- Hawk (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
Sometimes I wonder... what will people be able to buy after they have maxed out their credit cards and spent all their cash on Chirstmas presents?
-- Stan Faryna (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
You can pick your friends but you cannot pick your family. Don't let Y2K affect your relationship with your family. It is still too early to worry about what is going to happen. Accept your family they way they are or you will be even more upset if they choose to turn you away if Y2K is just a BITR.
BTW, even some of the so-called experts are backing off from 1/1/2000 being the trigger date, so if it does get bad, you may have more time to convince your family that there is something wrong.
Just let it go for now.
-- Lurking on the sidelines (Alw@ys lurking.com), November 07, 1999.
My son knew about y2k,but wasn't preparing for it.I finally gave up trying to get him to prep for y2k,except to tell him if things got bad,that he and his wife and 5 kids could always move in with his dad and step mom or his grama and granpa.Those were the magic words,because he started buying stuff right after that and bought a house instead of renting.I was so relieved.
-- Maggie (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
I must commiserate with you. This evening I tried again with my family, and was laughed at again. "What will you do if the power goes out?" "Oh, it went out for a few days a couple of years back. We just went to visit some friends across town until they put the wires back up." Sigh. "What if the whole town loses power?" "Oh, that won't happen." "Well, shouldn't you have at least some heat source just in case?" (These people are in Buffalo!) "Nah, you're being silly. Nothing will happen."
Unlike Paul Milne, I'm deeply concerned about my family. I'm very unlikely to be in any position to help them (from 1000 miles away) if they need help. And clearly my efforts to get them to help themselves are falling on deaf ears. Very sad.
-- Flint (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
preparing--How about borrowing money from your parents and brother and using it to set aside some preps for them. Tell them it is for something else... Really, people here have said how much they can buy with only small amounts of money. You will feel better if you do it, I think.
-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), November 07, 1999.
In August I flew home for a family reunion. I took copies of Faith's letter to her family. When we were all sitting around after working on an outdoor project -- I talked to them about the situation. gave them Faith's letter and the fun began.
They literally rolled around on the grass -- they ask me why I would let anyone know I was storing food etc. Wasn't I afraid they would come and get it???
My answer was that it was a long walk. And if I didn't try to take care of the my family, what kind of person was I??
The only family decision made on that day was this, they are all going in on a telephone conference call at 9:00 am January 1, 2000 to say Naaaaaa Naaaaaa Na Naaaaaaaaaaa Na to me.
I softly said "I Hope You can!" nothing else was said about Y2k.
-- ALURKER (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
Preparing, I know just how you feel. Both my mom, sister and her family in NY tell me how the govt. would never let this happen. I have tried to GI them but to no avail. Now my mom has money. She's gone on cruises this year, to Alaska and elsewhere. My sister and her husband pull in over $120,000 year. They said they will prep for a few days (just to shut me up) but they don't really believe. Mostly I feel sorry for their 16 year old son. I live in VA and have just enough preps for my family on my limited budget. Even my own 18 year old daughter who lives on her own doesn't GI. But I've secretly prepped for her and told her she is welcome (and I pray) she comes here. She plans on partying the night away Dec. 31st and wanted to take my 13 year old with her. I told her NO WAY! My family from NY are coming to visit this Friday for 2 days. I'll keep trying.
Preparing, you've done the best you could as we all have. I won't feel guilty, sad yes, but not guilty. I understand that you want so much for them to be prepped, but if they choose not to by rollover, let it go. I'm sure we've all helped some people to GI and even though it may not be our own families, it's someone elses. Just know that you are not alone and we all feel as you do in one way or the other.
-- Debi (LongTimeLurker@shy.com), November 07, 1999.
Yes, I know what you mean preparing. My father is a dgi. He refuses to listen! I've also tried to warn friends, to no avail, they also DWGI... I tried to warn an economic prof friend of mine, showing him that the banks were behind, all he did waas mock me to his class! I give up on trying to warn people, if they suffer it's their own fault, the bloods' off my hands. I WILL NOT indanger my own life to try to help them, they are fools. The only exception if for my immedate family. The rest are on their own...
-- Crono (Crono@timend.com), November 07, 1999.
From my perspective, honoring family means honoring their choices and allowing them the consequences of their choices.
Extra preps of basic grains and beans are cheap if you have space for them and having extra puts you in the position of abundance - and gives you something to give a neighbor or family who GI when the lights go out and their are gasoline shortages.
For myself, I have prepared as best I can for my husband and myself, adding extra to be able to help.
"leting go and letting God" has helped me tremendously. Remembering your family has a higher power you can intrust them to, and have their own journey and destiny may help you release them to God's care and concentrate on taking care of yourself and family.
Blessings and peace to you.
-- Leslie (***@***.net), November 07, 1999.
You care but Darwin doesn't. That's why Darwin its Darwin's Law. Remember, not everyone is going to survive.
-- anonymous (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
Paul Milne RIGHT ON BUDDY - I COULDN'T HAVE PUT IT BETTER MYSELF. Just who do these people think they are? I mean, your mother, and siblings? LET THEM DIE, UNTHINKING IDIOTS. They disagree with you, refuse to listen to you, chose their path - they deserve DEATH and nothing less. DON'T GIVE THEM A THING, PAUL, WHEN THINGS GET TOUGH. Not a drop of water, a scrap of food. NOTHING. Watch them suffer (especially your mother, what did she ever do for you?) maybe die slowly in front of you. ENJOY. Remember, YOU are right, and THEY are wrong. It will be YOUR justification, Paul. Oh Paul, I admire you so much. Your strength & conviction; your lack of compasssion gives me goose bumps of envy. Will you be our new leader, Paul,? Lead us onwards to a new world, a world where we can bury our stupid, DWTGI mothers and brothers and sisters in the same pit. ZEIG HEIL, OH GREAT LEADER!!!!!!!!
-- Asking (Asking@a question.com), November 07, 1999.
PAUL MILNE -- with your haughty and unloving attitude -- why would anyone ever want to HEAR ANYTHING FROM YOUR MOUTH? Most people, even if they are making fun of you, will listen when compassion and concern are displayed.
PREPARING--i don't know if you are a christian but now would be a good time to pray for your family--that they would see and understand. honestly, it can do amazing things and lately i am seeing more and more instances of god working directly with folks because of someone's prayer for them--without anyone saying anything to them. i have lots of people on my "y2k nonbelieving" prayer list. plus sometimes in the middle of the night, that "still small voice" wakes me up and tells me what to do/how to do it for them.
just remember, we still really don't know what is going to happen and just because someone doesn't prepare doesn't mean they are automatically sentenced to death. we just don't know. it could mean that things will be really hard for them but that doesn't necessarily kill us--sometimes those incredibly awful and hard experiences are the beginning of a new life with new direction/attitude. i personally felt my most important preparation was to be spiritually ready and have an unbroken/right relationship with god so that i can hear his directions and so that i am NOT outside his circle of blessing/protection.
here is one idea--silly as it may be--if you normally buy christmas presents for them--take that same amount of money and go shopping now while things are so cheap--and buy them food and some large cheap HDPE wastebaskets for emergency water storage. get lots of pasta, macaroni and cheese, canned milk and foods, TP, etc. candles. fill the wastebasket with the supplies and slap a BIG RED BOW ON IT. (you are lucky you are close enough to drive it over there) plus throw in some emergency flyers such as robert waldrop or the red cross put out- -plus maybe some articles as to why they should prepare. may stun them and they'll think you are nuts--but come on--the thought counts, right? and they can always eat the food later even if they don't believe.
-- tt (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
There appear to be three major choices here ITSHTF: you can wash your hands of them; you can prepare for them; or you can share what you have with them.
Luckily, my immediate family (husband, father, son, The Hungarian) all Get It. One or two family members who DGI and who are likely to turn up after the rollover are one thing, but four or five (or more) extra may be very difficult to provide for. I agree with some of the sentiments expressed above--if you have tried your best to tell them to prepare for an emergency and they have laughed in your face, you cannot waste any more time on them. And if they turn up at your door and you have not been able to afford to put aside any food for them, they will have to fend for themselves at FEMA food handouts. Cruel? Callous? Not necessarily. If it were me, I do not see why my spouse and children should be penalized for the sake of someone who was too lazy to prepare-and not only too lazy but so callous as to sneer at my prudent preparations.
With luck, the situation will not be nearly that bad. This is only a hypothetical situation at the moment. Buy extra food for them if you can; if not, steel yourself to protect your spouse and children.
-- Old Git (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
Remember to consider reality. When the family comes seeking help, if you tell them to go away (for myriad reasons, just cause, can't help them but want to, etc.) I doubt most will go away.
They will be desperate, humbling themselves to go to you for help. Most will not be humble, mind you, human nature would dictate they'll be angry at themselves and blaming others, including you. THey will angry in a bad way if there is no other option for them and te situation seems very threatening. So what are you going to do?
Will you greet them with a gun? You might not have time to fetch one after you inform them you can't help them ("You mean won't! And you call yourself a Christian?!!"). You must never ever pull a gun on a person unless you are willing and ready to kill that person. Are you?
If things get bad, which is very possible if not probable, there is terrible ugliness ahead to prepare for. Ugly to shoot your brother and sister and a parent. Ugly to have critical supplies needed for your children shared/taken with DWGI and then face the suffering of your own children that could have been avoided. Ugly situations in short term (killing family/friends that turn angry) or ugly situations later. ANother complicating factor is that if power goes out you won't have much idea of when it goes back on. In some video stores is a video of Twilight Zone episodes, one has a family with a prepared nuke shelter and a missle warning is given and the DWGI neighbors (mocking in past) demand to be allowed in, break down doors. The prepared won't let them in because to do so would negate any purpose in the shelter for surviving. The warning turns out false.
We have a socialist country - everyone is owed a living, owed a meal and a place to live. The mindset is there for demanding and ugly confrontations. And the relationships between the nieghbors in the Zone would never be the same after their short experience. People were desperate, to protect their children, their wives, theirselves. Desparate. The prepared were determined to survive also.
You prepared physically.
Are you prepared mentally?
Are you prepared spiritually to deal with this?
-- NoOne IKnow (NoOne@home.gov), November 07, 1999.
We have sort of a mixed bag here where I am. My father and one sister sort of GI, and have some (what I consider) minimal preps, including a fair amount of food. But the rest of the local relatives are D/DW GI's. They number about 20. The non-local sibs, who have also said 'if TSHTF, we will come to your house' (which will, in my mind, constitute a thousand mile journey of EPIC proportions), also number about 20.
We are very lucky in that we (my wife and I and our chrildren (3 and 2)) at this time have the good financial fortune to be able to prep on a large scale (I am sometimes embarressed at how large). They all know this, and we constitute their ENTIRE contingicy plan. Do I resent their attitude? YES. Will I cut them loose? NO. Not when it is within my power to help. They may not find 'Camp Pinkrock' the luxury resort they would wish, but they won't starve or freeze and will have clean water to drink. I believe it is my duty to do this.
Most people are like sheep. I guess I am more like a dog. Some kind of a herding dog ( I hate to say 'shepherd', but I guess it's accurate). I see that they are oblivious to the smell of danger in the wind, and are powerless to defend themselves. I am compelled to try and protect them, despite their sheepish nature.
I could have slammed the door in all of their faces, and had one whale of a bomb-proof bunker, enough to resist even a small scale military invasion. But I realized long ago that I could never live with myself if I made that kind of decision. What if, when I emerged, their corpses and bones were piled on my doorstep? It would take a heart of stone to say 'I have empathy, but no sympathy; they deserve what they got.'
You must do what you can, but you must also recognize your limitations, and accept them. Do what you can in your own small corner of the world, and pray for everyone else.
They're going to need
-- Pinkrock (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
years go i gave up on attempting to convert people to my way of thinking. the only people i will devote any time to are those members of my immediate family. if one contemplates the millions of potential converts "out there" only an evangelist would get excited at the challenge they present. it is better to quietly proceed with preps as your family watches. speak to them gently as they are loved ones. if they were raised in anything resembling the manner in which i was raised they will pick up on the sincerity of your efforts and think: "hey! he is really concerned about this." they usually pitch in... especially if you don't have a long standing reputation as the village idiot. i have told family for years that even the animals of the woods make preparations for winter. that is about as far as they can be expected to go being "just animals" but contrary to what uncle remus said they are not just acting naturally. when a cold wind blows through the barren winter trees the squirrels are scurrying big time to fill their bellies as are the deer and other critters.
don't waste your precious time and resources on ringing a y2k bell. work your buns hard and keep your trap shut. there isn't much time left and we are preparing for the unknown. in preparing for the unknown there is no time at which one can say: "that is sufficient ... stop." family will catch on. i realize it is drastically different for those living in apartments and subdivisions than for those in the deep woods but prepare as you can. there is little time left.
-- clayton (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
I,ve been beating the drum for a couple of years, mostly to no avail. My immediate family gets it but few others in the clan believe. Even in the face of the growing incidents of glitches, on our home systems and on the large systems we use at work, most folks just can't believe that the game board can tilt as much as it is going to. Fortunately, I live in a small community in Northern California and there are many folk here who know how to do things to help most of us get by. For those family members who live outside the area, well, I'll miss the ones who DGI.
-- michael frazier (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
I won't let anyone starve if I feel I am in a position to help without endangering myself. Most of my family is prepared so that helps. I'm expecting a diaster next door. It's a senior citizen, his wife has cancer and is an invalid, they don't have a dime due to medical costs, and his blind 91 year old mother is on the other side of the community that he feeds. They don't have any adult children just the wifes' sister about 800 miles away. I never mentioned Y2K. What would be the point he is in no shape to "prepare?"
-- Paula (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
I too have been in a similiar situation. My younger brother thinks its all a scam. My youngest brother is somewhat always prepared, I don't worry to much about him. My older brother has done nothing, but I still hold out hope. My mom, lets just say I finally had to say, "Mom, I know you don't think its going to be anything big with Y2k - fine, we can agree to disagree. Just please stock and prepare because you love me. If not for any other reason, do it for me!" I hate to use the "guilt" thing to coerce, but at this late date I feel better knowing she's covered the basics. Sending you best wishes!
-- karla (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
I can empathize with many of the posters on this forum....and with you preparing. I have to brothers in IT jobs who say "No big deal." But they are not involved in anything remotely close to mission critical jobs.
Nevertheless, my mom who lives in Florida who is careful to prepare for hurricanes, doesn't really want to hear about Y2K. My dad -- who usually is a conspiracy buff/anti-government type, is frozen with fear over where to even begin. My parents live on his modest income and are up to their eyeballs in debt, so spending $1000s on prep is out of the question as far as they are concerned.
The one thing that gives me peace of mind is that they belong to a fairly mainstream but strong Protestant church community. This church is often involved in emergency relief programs in the community so they are used to helping in a crisis. Also, the church evolved from and "End of the world" sect in the 1800's so fin de sicle preparations are not out of the ordinary for them.
FWIW, I'm lucky that my partner and her dad (whom I live with) have been preparing for Y2K for months. Gallons of stored water, a shed full of wood, an installed wood stove, rations, cash and some gold. We all believe that we're better safe than sorry and we'd be glad to be wrong. We'll eat the rations anyway .... and the wood could always serve us next year.
My colleagues at work ridiculed me from the start (and they are JOURNALISTS!) so I've completely stopped mentioning it to them. In fact, I've ceased to tell ANYONE that we are prepared in our home, lest they come over and what to "share".
We thought it was sensible to have extra stored away for our neighbors and family (about 10 extra gallons of water ... and some canned goods). They will remember our generosity if they decide to stay in their homes and reject government help (if there is any). We love them and would want to help where we could.
We will not put ourselves into jeopardy, though. Our large boxer/lab dog and our .22 and .38 will give us some help if necessary.
Sorry to go on and on. January 1 ... or even the 2nd 3rd or 4th may be just fine. Myself, I'm thinking if we make it to 1/31, then we can breathe easy.
Thanks for listening...
-- Cassandra (Prepared@home.com), November 07, 1999.
Have the pollies here considered their moral obligations IF TSHTF.
If you have a GI sibling with spouse and you suddenly move yourself and your spouse in with them, then their six months of supplies are now only three months worth. What kind of human being would endanger their neices, nephews, siblings etc to escape the consequences of their own irresponsible decisions?
If you wish to do nothing and/or mock those who do prepare then at least be man enough to live with your choice and not expect others to endanger their families to pull you out the mess you insisted on getting yourself into dispite their warnings.
I cannot understand why it is the GI's who are being held up to moral scrutiny. Will they or will they not take in their DGI relatives. I think it is the DGI's whose moral character should be questioned. Will you endanger other loved ones to cover your own ignorant asses?
I consider all the children to be exceptions and will do what I can to bring in the children of DGI's. But as for the adults. You and only you are responsible for you actions.
Say what you want but mean what you say
-- thomas thatcher (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
When you spoke of your neighbors--it brought tears to my eyes.You brought the problems of not only them,but so many in their condition to the fore.It is heartbreaking to think of.
-- Maggie (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
---I have a couple of things that have worked for me, to some extent or another: 1- I put the ball in their court on two fronts...first I ask them when was the last time any government or any big business told the truth about anything important........... that get's em thinking...thinking real hard, because big bro and big biz's track record with the truth is pretty dismall, everyone knows that... ..then I say, like i did in a thread below, that I can afford to be wrong, but folks who FAIL to take some serious precautions and preparations CANNOT be wrong, that they are committed to a course of action, that if they are wrong will lead to major personal suffering and even a hideous death of some sort. They (and any denialist) can't afford to be wrong, and this is a 50/50 deal at a minimum (I think it's a lead pipe cinch it will be bad, but this is just my opinion) --the other thing I did was go to the archives at artbell show, and tape the gary north interviews, editing out the commercials, or, if in a hurry, just send away and you can buy the tapes. It's been my experience with several dgi's and dwgi's that those interviews,IF you can get them to sit still and listen-will work, and the call in question and answer sessions, answer a lot of questions. I have had pretty dismal luck with printouts-it's not "real" to most folks. It's really hard with folks not on the net, too. they get zero news, so "all of this" is just too much. ---my dad started to initially give me grief right off the bat with those same stoopid little flyers that he got from the bank, etc, and I laid it on the line for him, told him I gave crap one how he "felt", I reminded him that I had thousands of hours research,he had about one hour total, and that HE was responsible for MY MOTHER"S safety, and I would HOLD him responsible. No threats, just that statement. That worked in that regard, at least i know they got a whopper pantry full, and water, and a way to recharge batteries. Best I could do there. My bros are both retired career military, and have had uncle sugar take care of them their entire adult lives, so there wasn't any getting through to them at all, there's no frame of reference. bigbro is god to them, the provider of all things...sad.... My sisters I laid the same rap on my brother in laws, that THEY were responsible for my sister's safety. Surprisingly, because they are both intelligent guys and would actually go to all the various links, etc., this worked. I emailed them with the links for two weeks, they both "got it" quite readily, and are as prepared as any normal middle class folks can get-they took it serious, and frequently ask me specific survival type questions, etc. some major family sacrifices there, but I am resting easy on that one. those families are better off than 99.999% of the population right now, but it took two years of preps on their part. As to dwgi "friends", well, I moved, have not told them where, and have warned all of them before I left to NOT even try and find me if TSHTF, that they can be cannibal food for all I care. And I meant it, too. Most of the dwgi people I know are pc clone weenie puter "experts". hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha --good luck and better skill, you have done what you could, and brace yourself for a lot of heartache, it will be inevitable. Help your local community and neighbors instead, and I heartily recommend that you belong to a survival group for mutual support, diversification of skills, and for self defense. Best I can offer you.
zog the preparer
-- zog (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
Thanks everyone...it is cold comfort to know we are all in this boat together, but comfort nevertheless.
Paul Milne: Lemme explain something. I just found my dad and mom (really she is my stepmother, consider her to be my mother, though) about 18 months ago. To make a long story short, when I was 7, my biological mother and her boyfriend literally took us in the middle of the night and ran. She obtained a divorce from my dad and he tried and tried to get us, but despite the fact that she basically kidnapped us, the courts wouldn't let him have full custody (this was 1976--moms always got full rights, damn the consequences back then)we lived far away and being a blue collar guy w/out a lot of $$ couldn't come see us very often w/out losing his job (he worked construction back then). The few times he made it out there she conveniently had us gone somewhere beforehand ("Oh, sorry you JUST missed them.") Biological mom was and is mentally ill (borderline personality disorder) and the stepdad was and is an alcoholic (his nickname is Pop Top--he just lost his 3rd job in as many months and is inches away from being a bum on the street. He has attempted suicide 5 times that I know of.) Anyway, the 26 yr old brother and I had the kind of childhood you see in a bad made for TV movie--abuse, neglect, the whole nine yards. I have more horror stories than anyone I know. Polaroids that CPS took in the late 70's early 80's of my brother and myself with black eyes, broken arms, bruised backs (my brother once almost died when he was 9 from a blow to the kidney by the drunk stepfather.) CPS, however, never did take us away from them. To this day I do not know why. When I was 18 I went to college full scholarship (I knew school was my only way out) and got my degree in English and my teaching certification. I met my wonderful husband and got years of therapy. I have nothing to do with the bio mom and stepdad. Meanwhile about 18 months ago, I FOUND my dad and stepmom. I had lost track of where they lived and they obviously didn't know where we were. There were enough tears to drown several grown men. We were so thrilled to finally be a family again. (I met my stepmother when I was young and saw her a few times back then, she was always nicer to me than my own "mother".) They had a daughter and son (my 20 yr old sister and 15 yr old brother) and we became very close very quickly. Remember, I was 7 when we were nabbed so I knew my dad very well and was very close to him (read: Daddy's girl). It has been like we were never apart. My 26 yr old brother was laid off and they invited him to move into their house (huge). He did and they were thrilled, now he is going to college full time which he never had a chance to do. Anyway, my point is I JUST GOT THEM BACK IN MY LIFE!!! It breaks my heart to think anything might happen to them now. And yes, I know, if things aren't too bad, they will be ok. But they have ZERO extra water and only about 2 days of food in the house. Both mom and 15 yr old brother are asthmatics who need medication. I even tried to warn the stepdad at one time, he laughed, of course.
rc white: yes of course I am depressed, but it about the possible ramifications of Y2K, not anything else. I LOVE my life the way it is, things are going grand except for this dark shadow called Y2K hanging over it. I do have things I do to take my mind off of it, but it doesn't help much, esp the closer we get.
Lurking: why would my family turn away from me if Y2K is a BITR? So I get laughed at a little, my family isn't the kind that would turn their backs on me b/c I tried to warn them of a potential danger.
Mara: As far as borrowing $$ from them and buying preps for them goes, that is pretty much out. They don't have any extra due to living the gotta have it lifestyle everyone is so fond of. We HAVE bought as much as we possibly can, to the point of being able to afford NOTHING extra for anything b/c of all the preps we continue to buy. I don't get out of the grocery store for less than $150 and I go ONCE a week! Just to afford that, my husband is working extra overtime trying to make as much as he can for this. If Y2K is nothing or a BITR, he is going to stop working overtime and go back to school part time, as he was doing.
No One I KNow: if they show up, of course I would take them in, but here is my concern (and this is directed to everyone, tell me if I am wrong in this thinking) ---if things are bad enough for them to come to my house looking for food, they are not going to be able to make it here. Here's why I say that: they live in a suburb on one side of Dallas, we live in a suburb on another side of Dallas. A good 45 miles of interstate, loops, and highways inbetween, some going right through Dallas. There is some kind of strange sociological phenomenon whereby when things get crazy, people tend to get in their cars and drive. Where to, they might not even know. But they do. The traffic will be so bad, I don't think they could get here in a day. And what will people be acting like in that traffic? I drive to that suburb every day since I work there and it takes 1 hr 15 minutes with rush hour traffic, and that is with using the HOV lanes. Of course, if they do manage to get here, we will welcome them with open arms and pray our food and water lasts long enough (it's the water I would be most worried about). Any other family members, I;m afraid, would have to fend for themselves. That would be very hard to do, but I have talked to EVERYONE in my extended family as far back as 14 months ago, to no avail. I really doubt they will all be showing up, though.
Thanks again, everyone for your words of commiseration. Now here's hoping I can make a MAJOR donation to a food pantry with a big smile on my face around February.
-- preparing (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
This is a test of character, with even greater tests of character ahead requiring sacrifice, courage and patience.
-- snooze button (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
preparing, please keep all your preps, including food, at least until September 2000. The economical devastation of Y2K may take that long to snowball into a massive depression. Should be obvious by March though.
-- January (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
I have three adult childern. I started last January bringing up the y2k issue. Little or no response, over the months I tried to broach the subject with them. Sometimes I was met with humor, poor mom. Other times silence. And then "don't get yourself all worked up." So the first week of Oct., I mailed them each a Christmas card with a check and a note in it, stating it was their gift to do as they wish but would they please consider getting some supplies in. I told them I would gladly eat crow if I was wrong about y2k although I have a lot of beans to eat also. One thanked us and never mentioned y2k another thanked us and filled her oil tank and used the remainder to buy a second hand snowmobile, the third ripped up the check. I'm sorry to rant on but we live on a fixed income and this was the only way we thought we would get a response.I'm glad yet sorry that others have the same problem, not that someone is going to suffer but that we seem to be a voice crying in the wind.
-- rmoose (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
Grasshoppers are stupid idiots who will attack the prepared ants during the coming hard times.
-- Randolph (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
rmoose -- I am dreadfully sorry about the ripped up check. Gads, I can only imagine how that must've hurt. I'm guessing that you understand it properly as a measure of the deep subcortical fear your adult child may be experiencing. Still, it's gotta hurt, just as the "poor mom" attitude must. I, like you, never proselytize with my husband and resident adult child. Never have. I've only given them articles, but those go have gone unread. What has caught their attention is, I have sold some non-essential possessions that they *know* are meaningful to me in order to prepare for them. They hear that, and it has caused them to partially hear the more cautionary messages in society at large. Your post was not a "rant." I found it extraordinarily worthy of respect.
Flint -- wow. Your post has likely caused some people who are paralyzed by ambiguity and fear to get serious about prepping. That was mighty cool.
preparing -- I think that if moral courage were easy, more people would have it. As a keep against any bad feelings (which are almost inevitably the result of being mocked) I hope at least you credit yourself with that courage. I realize it is but a small keep against the deep worry that your loved ones might undergo unpleasant times. However, it is quite possible that one result of your demonstration of courage is that it might show up later in life in your younger brother. Unfortunately, you never can know where the influence and demonstration of courage ends up.
-- (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
Thanks for sharing your lot. My family is on the opposite coast (next door to the Trident Sub Base) and I've gone through the same thing. Recently, I sent 3 packets of "scare" material to them, since words haven't been effective. I sent it to one sister to give to the other two families. She has not given out the packets...As a last resort their Christmas presents will be a scanner, wind-up powered radio and flashlight. Maybe they will be a bit more prepared for the next hurricane considering they just went through Floyd! That impressed them for about 2 days. I am struggling to make my final preps, so I can only devote time to that. You see my immediate family doesn't have a clue either. I've been preparing for the entire year for 5 other people who will not help me. I now have to move the entire prep to a remote location. (How many days are left? Ugh!) They are afraid that I will "suffer" when nothing happens. Geez. It's good to hear from you. I've just been hanging in there in acting like a robot on the bad days. Best of luck to you. I have a feeling there are a lot of people in our situation. Meandi
-- meandi (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
In my honest opinion, I have very few relatives that are worth saving. If I gave them any food it would be exchanged for cigarettes or a new yard dog.
-- Carol (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
Maggie, I'll do what I can for them if they get into a mess. I used to work in retirement hotels and am not material to sit back and watch my elderly neighbors perish. Frankly, I'd die of shame if an entity like the National Guard had to come "get the bodies" of my highly vulnerable elderly neighbors that perished from starvation, as I sit next door with enough to share and could have easily saved their lives. Can you imagine how the papers would read if a someone heavily prepared let the sick old people next door die without a thought or care? It goes beyond being a decent person some things do hit the papers for the whole world to read. (Like the families in Chicago who sat back and let their parents die in the heat power outage recently. Parents who were just down the street no less.)
-- Paula (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
No one should feel guilty for not taking care of foolish people who have been forewarned about an impending disaster. When people refuse to get on the life raft, they have made their choice. The best anyone can do for those ignorant, finger pointing, name calling twits, is to direct them to the BIG WHITE BUS, or the VERY LONG SOUP LINE. Just because your relatives share the same gene pool as you, doesn't make you obligated to take care of them.
-- bardou (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
A familiar story. I've stopped trying, even with those I love. All I say now is "If you think that at some point you might, just MIGHT want to stock up, not that there's anything wrong of course, but just in case everyone ELSE panics, then it's best for you to do it NOW, don't wait until mid-December, or you'll be part of the problem." And I find that I'm increasingly NOT bringing the issue up with family and friends, as I am becoming more aware that it's too late to fix any outstanding problems, and the biggest threat now is problems of perception: food, bank and stock market runs. If you know someone who hasn't bought already, then chances are they'll wait until they SEE the danger signs, by which point they ARE part of the problem. If we can't persuade them to stock early, then it's better if they don't stock at all. Frankly, it's probably now best for even the most paranoid of us to just shut the feck up and cross our fingers.
As a cheering aside, my partner's parents lived most of their life in Shetland, an island community frequently beset with bad weather. They HABITUALLY keep large stocks of food and fuel. To them, it's second nature, it's not even an issue. In fact, when I mentioned stockpiling to them, they thought about it for a second and said "You mean you didn't before? That's wierd." Quite the opposite of the usual "You're stockpiling? Are you some sort of wierdo?" response that I've been getting from my city friends.
- Colin MacDonald -
-- Colin MacDonald (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
Bardou says, "When people refuse to get on the life raft, they have made their choice."
Well, Bardou, yeah okay, that may work as a personal credo of survival. However, you might want to be somewhat more delicate in how you impart that line of wisdom and certitude to 4-year-olds should they look to you for help. Or to trusting senior citizens, many of whom lost their early-life spouses, brothers, and fathers in WWII or Vietnam. From a moral standpoint, it strikes me as infinitely more complicated than a life-boat-I-warned-ya rationale.
Paula, yo, chowbabe, you are truly first-rate!
-- (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
I to am concerned about enough water.I have drinking water in 2 55 gal water barrels and water in new trash barrels (with clorox)for bathing and such.What has helped me feel a little more secure,I bought one of the back pack type water filters,that can be used to filter pond water or from a creek and plan to use it also for the water from a rain barrel.
I knew you would help your elderly neighbors.You caring showed from your post.After I read it,I went to the store to buy more food,just in case I can be of some help to others in need of help that couldn't (like your neighbors) prepare for themselves.
I have a wood stove and can cook on it,its just as easy to cook a large mess of beans and corn bread to feed me and a few others as it would be for just me.
-- Maggie (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 07, 1999.
bardou: I wouldn't take care of them because we share the same gene pool for crying out loud. I would take care of them because I LOVE THEM......I LOVE THEM.....I LOVE THEM.....I LOVE THEM!!!!!!!!!!
Crying now, can't see the keyborad.
-- preparing (email@example.com), November 07, 1999.
People "get it" it differnt ways. I believe even some of those with the greatest understanding of what "it" might be don't keep this foremost in mind simply because of the depth and magnitude of possible suffering being addressed (re Peter De Jager). Just because someone says, "it'll be nothing" doesn't neccessarily mean they don't "get it" More important might be a tangential approach to this. It may sound comical but it may also work. For instance start with your new found interest in camping and how you would like to pick up a good kerosene stove, or about what baking materials your ancestors used to have on hand, or how they used to do things. (possibly put more delicately but maybe you get the idea). Talk about solutions and not problems and you may find more receptive ears.
-- PD (PaulDMaher@att.worldnet.com), November 07, 1999.
Okay, I'm at the end of a very long post but this is as good a place as any to vent. My family (parents, sibs, kids) celebrate Christmas at New Years. Done this forever. I have the biggest house, fireplace, and the only one preparing at all. MOTHER decides we are all to be at their place this year. This is not a huge problem as their home is our bug out place. Mom thinks this is ludicrious because of all of the above. They have an earth-contact home, Dad seriously gardens, and does all their shopping at Aldi's and Sam's anyway. He is a moderate GI, child of the depression era, huge farm family, has a food fetish. Mom, however, refuses to get it. She did at the beginning, but listened to too many happy stories. Because of Dad, I'm fairly sure they could handle a lot. Anyway, I told my mom that we would have to discuss whether or not we would be there for our holiday, and if we did it would be in two vans hauling as much of our preps as possible. "...yada, yada, yea okay, whatever". Talked to my dad this week on his birthday, and confirmed we would be there. Since we have a large family, we always split up the dinner menu so that everyone brings something. So Dad is yacking and tells me not to bring my food. So I'm thinking, what does he mean? We always share the food expenses. Then it dawns on me he's talking about my PREPS! I groaned and said, "Oh Dad, Mom thinks I'm a nut". There was silence on the other end and he finally chuckled and said, " Honey, I think you're a nut, too". I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at that point. He did finally say to just bring whatever made me feel comfortable. Lovely. I also have an in-law who tries to be superwoman and usually fails miserably. She started to can this summer. Didn't quite make it work. Last week I asked for her "ton" of jars so I could keep up with mine (for the ENTIRE family). Well, this morning my brother in law brought them over. What a joke. Two cases of quart jars and one case of pints. I wonder how long she thought that much food would last? She borrowed my dehydrator a while back. "I'll be in charge of dehydrating". I thought that was great. She did a few trays of fruit, promply fed them to her kids, and quit. I got it back and started in on jerky with a vengence. I hope she likes jerky since she'll be eating at my house, if we get back from my parent's. Then again, her family will be in Atlanta for Christmas with her parents. Gee, I feel much better now.
-- lvz (firstname.lastname@example.org), November 08, 1999.
-- Sister Catherine (SisKat@nineTails.orgy), August 09, 2001.
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