Atlanta disputes Y2K warning : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

The duplicate thread below if way into its second set of problems. Here is a cleaner version. Sorry for the duplication. Sysops, please delete the thread below!

A local story developed by WWXIA TV in Atlanta. To all the html folks (all of whom I greatly admire): PLEASE DO NOT HOTLINK this URL. It is too clever by far.

I will extract the interesting part as follows:

Rant mode on...

Atlanta's mayor, among others, is disputing a warning issued by the city's own Y2K consultant. As 11 Alive reported exclusively on Monday, the consultant says the city is far behind in upgrading its computer systems for the year 2000. Consultant James McCullough issued the warning October 6th that said the Y2K testing "is terminally behind schedule with little hope of making a positive course correction".

Mayor Bill Campbell admits the city is racing to complete the computer upgrades, but says the city will be ready in time. The Governor's Y2K Task Force recommended McCullough to the city.

A member of the task force told 11 Alive's Jon Shirek that Mayor Campbell's attempts to discredit McCullough are "cheap and tawdry".

...Rant mode off

Robert, have you or the others from Atlanta metro heard any additional issues related to this report? I am afraid my knowledge is limited to the link above, but it does appear Atlanta has "little hope" of avoiding toastdom.


-- Uhhmm... (, November 03, 1999


58 days.


-- Jack (jsprat@eld.~net), November 03, 1999.

I live in Atlanta and I saw the same report. Mayor Bill does not seem very convincing to me, and I only a 1 or 2 on the 1-10 scale for y2k disruptions. I think there must have been a very stupid political reason for the this, what that it though I am unaware. I can't really tell you anymore but it would definately seem as though you and I are going to have some problems of one sort of another come nect January.

I wonder how many people on this BBS ARE from Atlanta? It seems to me that there are quite a few that have mentioned living here. Maybe one day we could have a y2k get togther of our own?

-- (atlanta@nospamming.for me), November 03, 1999.

One of my clients is a major recruiting/consulting house in Atlanta (over 500 fulltime and contract employees) and I'm buddies with the owner. His firm did some remediation work for the city and according to him the area his guys worked on (sanitation) is OK, but the vast majority of systems throughout the rest of the govt are uckfayed.

The city asked him to step in when they had that debacle with their other contractor and he declined. He said he took one look at what they were up against (old code, NO documentation, petty bickering w/in the agencies) and said it would be suicide to even try and take on a project like that. He said it was a no-win situation...


-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), November 03, 1999.

The Atlanta papers/TV are thoroughly in the mayor's pocket (he in theirs' ?) and have given little credible coverage of the entire y2k problems other than Mr. K's periodic frosting on the bump-in-the-road theory.....but this is as much as I've been able to gather.

Anybody knowing more please add more.....

Atlanta began (first issued any form of y2k contract last August (1998) about 3 years after other (smaller) cities begantheir preparations.

The Atlanta airport is under city of Atlanta control, but had begun earlier, and under a separate contract. (Everybody, say thank youto the Atlanta airport commissioner - who was subsequently fired by Mayor Campbell for refusing to contribute enough to his re-election campaign.)

Delta airlines contributed heavily (time, dozens (hundreds ?) of free "loaned" consulting people, programmers, technicians and clerical help, testing, machines, etc.) to remediating the airport. (Don't know if only delta gates and programs at the airport were fixed, or if all gates and programs were done.

FAA stuff at the airport - who knows who paid? Who tested? Who installed......FAA claimed it was done 30 July, Mayor Campbell repeated (at the time) that "Atlanta airport is first one done in the US....everything is finished." This was a lie two ways: Detroit Airport though (with significant dollars and help from NorthWest Airlines) had gotten everything finished in April, and when I called Delta, Delta's programmers admitted they had several months of work left to do.

In late September, Atlanta Airport claimed to be ready. About when delta said they would be finished, but don't know extent of testing. (Don't know what systems were replaced - other than seeing checkin terminals, a passenger can't see very much.)

Back to the city, now that we have proved Mayor Campbell lies about compliance.

In late March, the consulting company finished Atlanta City government SURVEYS. At that time, the city sued because the consulting company used a minority contractor that was NOT on the officially-approved "Mayor Campbell " list of consulting contractors. (That is they chose a contractor who had not bribed the Mayor., so the Mayor refused to pay for the survey.)

Result? The consulting company refused to release its survey results, and counter-sued. To date, I am not aware of ANY resolution to this matter, therefore, the city doesn't apparently have even its survey completed and published to issue bids to do remediation and to decide what funds are needed to replace obsolete computers.

Much less triage, remediation, testing, re-installtion, or replacement.

To date, I am aware of one test on one financial program on one "maniframe at the controller's office. IN late September, an official said they ran a successful test "on a Saturday", but apparently didn't knwo when they would be able to "reload the program" and "put it into operation."

Hope that "one day run" was adequate to test the changes, but am very skeptical. At least the thing should run overnight.....should do all end-ofmonth calc's, end of year calc'c, all printouts, all day-to-day changeovers....etc.


In short folks, they are introuble, and the Mayor is a typical flat-out liar.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (, November 03, 1999.

I'm from Atlanta as well. I work for one of the largest broadcasting companies in town. A little while back I spoke with Rep. George Grindley, who is the head of the state of Georgia's Y2K Task Force. I was calling to confirm that he was the author of a letter that was posted by "Sylvia" on this forum. He said that he had written the letter and then went on to tell me that John Kokinen's aide had told him, that (the Federal Government) wanted to tell people to prepare for at least three weeks, but were afraid of starting a panic. He said that other agencies wanted to tell people to prepare for 3 months, but were told to keep quiet. He also told me that Venezuela, in private, had told U.S. officials that they would not be exporting any oil next year because of Y2k problems. By the way, Venezuela is responsible for about 15% of our daily oil consumption all by itself. ---

-- Omega Man (wishing I were H@ri, November 03, 1999.

I guess I just don't get how this works, and hope somebody will help me picture how it works and the rationale.

Wouldn't cities and states WANT their citizens to be prepared and save themselves crisis management in case things go bad? Do federal officials get to dictate what a state's prep recommendations are to their citizens? How does that work? Are cities and states being strong-armed? Or are officials motivated by concern over bank runs in their area? I should think it would make more sense for localities to have more self-interest on their minds. Or perhaps I'm just confused about self-interest. Sorry to be thick about this, but I really am...

-- (, November 03, 1999.


You make a good point, and that is why I think we should NOT read too far into conspiracy theories. But onthe other hand, look at it this way. If you brought your car to the shop to have the transmission overhauled, and a week after the repairs your car drops it's tranny on the road. Now, if I was THAT repairman, I'd do just about anything to get out of responsibility for the foul up. I'd say it was YOUR fault, you drove the car too hard. I'd say that it was raod conditions... anything but say that it was my incompetence.

I think it's a little game called "passing the buck".

-- (, November 03, 1999.

Anon, ah! Yep. Good point. Got it. I guess I was just thinking that mayors, governors, county commissioners, etc. weren't the ones doing the remediation work, but yeah, I can see how they're ultimately the ones responsible.

-- (, November 03, 1999.

Exactly, governement just LOVE to be the bearer of GOOD news. But when something doesn't jive they'll be the last ones you hear from. They ARE human, they have families, they have feelings. And they DO want to help you, but they just don't want to be RESPONSIBLE.

Kind of sounds like a few dead-beat dads I know of. They want to have childeren and be happy about it, but they don't really want to be responsible.

-- (, November 03, 1999.

I live in Atlanta and have been helping a friend of mine install alarm systems. It seems strange that when we go into some of these peoples basements and homes that they look like a Mini-Sam's club. Gun safe's are I guess the latest fad, it seems as if everyone has one. And new ones to I might point out. Also these are not your everyday "Joe Six Packs" either. Almost all are doctors, dentist, company owners, and just outright wealthy people. Now of course if you were to ask one of them what they thought about Y2K they would say it's just going to be a minor event. Now maybe they're all adopting the Mormon faith, or they know something that the pollies don't. They had better be glad that I am not a predator. If the power goes, thus goes their security systems. GET OUT OF THE CITY

-- tj (, November 03, 1999.

Let me get this straight Omega Man:

"I'm from Atlanta as well. I work for one of the largest broadcasting companies in town"

You work for one of the largest broadcasting companies in town, you have informatio of the sort related in your posting, and yet the media, by and large, in Atlanta are paying lip service to the Y2K issue. If you have this info, why have you not published it???

After the Jim Lord "Pentagon Papers" hit the net, I called all the local news media to alert them to the story. I pointed out that it was a LOCAL story, because Atlanta Gas was on the list. I told them of a conversation I'd had THAT DAY with the head of Atlanta Gas's Y2K effort. He told me that he remembered spending a day with "those Navy guys", but couldn't figure out why they would give the assessment they did. (Atlanta Gas was in the "likely to experience partial failures" category) Well, there is confirmation of due diligence on the part of the Navy. The company was not put in the assume worst case category, so there was a reason for the assessment.

(btw, the Gas guy told me that payroll wasn't classified as mission critical Hmmmmm, I wonder what the NAvy guys thought of that!)

The local media didn't want to touch it. The journal printed the initial AP story, did no local follow-up. Printed the backpedaling apologist repies and put it to bed. I had a reporter tell me she wouldn't followup on internet / non-confirmed rantings of a guy with an agenda (Lord). She then wanted to know what my agenda was!

Anyway, Omega man, Why no story releasing this stuff???? Are you for real? Is the info for real????

As an aside, after the Koskinen "community conversation" here in Atlanta (which was very poorly attended) I met a consultant who indicated that state and city jobs were not progressing as well as hoped, and they were pretty sure that there would be whistle blowers popping up toward the end of October and on time frame. The state and city were formulating plans on how to handle it. For the most part, they would attempt to discredit the individuals in much the same way we've seen on this thread.

-- Duke 1983 (, November 03, 1999.

I live not too far from Atlanta. I have friends and family in the city. I know how things work in Atlanta. I also know there has to be contingency plans regardless of the corruption and ineptitude of the present administration. What those plans are, however, have little to do with helping the citizens, I assure you.

I have a very close friend (a major telecom exec) who lives in the city and regularly attends meetings in DC - he isn't talking and won't, I admire his integrity. But he can't hide what he is doing and what he is doing is moving out of state. He has bought a generator. He also just hurriedly bought a very big ticket item. We finally figured out he has to know about IRS going down because his expertise is in taxes. Guess we will be seeing something like VAT next year. The rich are indeed preparing - I know some. I also know that there are whole small mountain communities north of Atlanta that are quietly preparing and ... they are armed. My point is - Atlanta is a major hub for many things. The city government is a joke. The inner city is and has been for some time poised and ready for anything to kick off civil upheaval and anarchy. A group recently created havoc at a city hall meeting just because the county hospital upped the meds costs from .50 to $10 for the disadvantaged. So, chaos isn't going to come as a surprise to many, intelligent people who live in and near Atlanta. The unspoken fear and understanding here is that Atlanta is destined to burn again. I can't blame Bill Campbell, though I would like to. This wasn't a job for a two-bit politician - instead of a crook we needed a business man. There just wasn't one who wanted to be mayor. I used to think I could pray this away but now I see it must be part of a grander plan.

If anyone thinks it would help to have a meeting for the Atlanta contingency - I'll be glad to work on it. Time is short you know so the best we can do is commiserate with each other and maybe create a help network.

-- April (, November 03, 1999.

Contingency plans?

The Fulton County government remediation (which surrounds half of Atlanta) is going fairly well according to its former (Republican) county chairman (Mitch Skandilakas) and has finished remediation (he didn't go into details on the radio show I was listening to.) Their contingency plans are made, don't know if they've tested them. certainly no "public drills" have been done.

The Dekalb County government (which essentially surrounds the eastern half of Atlanta) has said nothing. It may or may not have done anything. It may or may not have tested anything or done any contingency planning.

Same report for Gwinnett County (to the Northeast of Atlanta): heard nothing, maybe they have done something, maybe not.

City of Atlanta contingency plans were "beginning to be written" in mid-August. Last I heard they were "very concerned" about finishing even the contingency planning, much less actual remediation and testing. Funding to implement the Atlanta city contingency planning? Heard nothing....know of none budgetted.

Moral of this tale: Don't buy SuperBowl tickets just yet. (Overheard during a Jan 99 GA state-level Y2K briefing by Rep. Grindley, governor's office, etc. When the SuperBowl was mentioned, a quiet "Oh S**t" was heard from the governor's office staff.....who were sitting behind me.)

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (, November 03, 1999.

Uh, I think I wasn't clear about the "contingency plans". I'll be more specific. I think the plans are for those who know what the real troubles will be - not for the general populace. Mostly this means having someplace else to go to. JMHO

-- April (, November 03, 1999.

I discussed this topic with a comrade, and he later had an opportunity to speak with a mutual friend who is consulting for City Atlanta. The mutual friend confirmed the toastiness of the city.

I asked if our friend planned on moving from the city and was met with some amount of amazement (though my cohort is a GI). Just part of the general disconnect I beleive. Either people cannot imagine the consequences of failure or just cannot beleive it is really happenning. Our mutual friend seemed to view failure of Y2K remediation as no more than just another failure in a long string of failures for the present administration. He could not make the leap from project failure to personal danger.

Prepare or die.


-- Uhmm.. (, November 03, 1999.

JFPC, I grew up near Atlanta, and most of my family lives in the area. We have seen the steady decline of the city govt. there since the early 70's to the present state of utter squalor and corruption. Atl. has the highest ratio of city employees to citizens in the USA due to cronyism, nepotism, kickbacks and union graft. Mayor Campbell is an ex-lawyer who along with Maynard Jackson, got rich marketing city bond issues and taking kikbacks on the sales. Campbell runs the city the way Don Corleone ran his own "family business". If you don't play ball, you get canned or never hired in the first place. So I'm not surprised if they fired or forced out the IT remediator for telling the truth. When TSHTF in a few months, it will take at least one mechanized division of army troops to have even a prayer at containing the rampaging inner city populace most of whom are on some form of govt. support. BTW, if you think the airport will not have any problems I can only say ROFL!

-- doktorbob (, November 03, 1999.

---well. I was living in atlanta until may of this year. now safe and secure and prepped in the mountains, thankyou. i walk the walk and talk the talk and put my a$$-ets where it will be safer by far. I started contacting the media in early 97 about y2k. it's the biggest yawner for them, they can't get beyond still EXPLAINING what y2k is! got nothing but contempt for the "news" in atlanta, nothing but contempt at all. It's pitiful. the klinton party line, that's it. It's the third world with a little money, that's it. I attended both the jim lord and michael hyatt conferences last year, and spoke to both those individuals(both of whom gave me the impression of being privately even doomier than their web personnas, if that matters). I did a tremendous amount of personal anecdotal research around the atlanta area, talking to blue collar "fixers", older mainframe programmers, etc, all of whom reinforced my worst case scenario outlooks. One older mainframe guy, who is retired and doesn't want to look at a line of code anymore, has been preparing a survival retreat in the boonies in tennessee for EIGHT YEARS now. All of the older guys were doomers, the only non-doomers I met were all micro$oft era pc weenies. and , of course, when questioned, it was obvious to me that their own "research" was between zip/zilch and absolutely nothing, but, because they are pc "experts", i'm suppoised to take their word for it, that y2k is a load of crap. I told em all once, that's it, and reminded them of cannibalism.heheheh-this was also a significant clue for me, thier apathy, and unwillingness to look. atlanta's infrastructure and economy will melt down, and it will most likely burn down, too, because of all the older houses, and the millions of trees that go right up to downtown. I envision once the fires get started, that it will burn from the chattahoochee river to at least stone mountain. so far, from what i have researched, the waterworks is toast, the cs railroad complex is toast, the airport is toast, the city's computers are toast, on and on--toast. burnt toast, to boot. atlanta is a black, democratically controlled, globalists/liberal party machine town. It doesn't work NOW, let alone in any sort of emergency. during freaknik, the black student spring break, it takes every cop they can find including third assistant dog catchers to not control the crowds, and during the rodney king riots, forget it, civilization to rampaging animals in FIVE MINUTES. I was there, experirnced it first hand in my face, had to travel downtown TWICE during the riots, to save 2 people, a lady friend, then back for her mother. had to use my .357 (a visual threat, and some choice phrases from me) to not become a riot victim. bottom line is that atlanta is toast, if you stay there you will be dead, dead, dead. suburbs, too, most likely, there's no magic line separating atlanta from the suburbs, so it's the same. Probably the same in most other big cities, too.... good luck urban dwellers

-- zog (, November 03, 1999.

So how the hell far out do you want to be from a major metropolitan area? I live North of SF, aprox 35 miles past the Golden Gate. How far is far?

-- (, November 04, 1999.

How far?

About 1/2 tank of gas or more. About 2 days walk. Make your place difficult to get to. If TSHTF, make your road/driveway inaccessible by cutting trees, etc. You won't be able to stop people but you can slow them down and give yourself time to react.

"There are three kinds of people in this world. One type makes it happen; one type watches it happen; one type wonders what happened." Make up your mind to which group you want to belong.

Check six

-- Lobo (, November 04, 1999.


You probably want to be up above Santa Rosa/Cloverdale, or off in one of the river valley's near Mendocino.

As a back-up plan.


-- Diane J. Squire (, November 04, 1999.

This is only somewhat off topic, but I recently finished reading Tom Wolfe's latest, "A Man In Full". Set mostly in Atlanta, rich with local history. It details the racial tension, the strange politics, etc. Fantastic read, from the guy who gave us "Bonfire of the Vanities" and "The Right Stuff". I couldn't put it down.

{Can I have that check now, Mr. Wolfe?}

I will e-mail this thread to family in the Atlanta area. Good luck to all of you.

-- glad i don't live in (atl@n.ta), November 04, 1999.

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