$20,000 bank withdrawal in 20's - no problem

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Took $20,000 out of my money market account at the bank today, and asked for it all in 20's. The only trouble I was given was the tedium of watching the teller count it all out. No paper work, prying questions, or need to see a manager. She might have wondered about why I wanted it all in 20's, but if so then she hid it well. Gave me a nice little canvas carry-out bag too.

Then I went to my other bank (same bank actually - just the local branch) and put the cash in the safety deposit box. There was no one looking over my shoulder (of course) to see what I put in or took out. I know it is supposedly against the law to have cash in your box, but nothing is illegal unless it's found out. I also know the arguments against using deposit boxes. But I know the manager of the bank (and most of the employees); I know her house, names/ages of her kids, her favorite author, etc. I trust that safety deposit box more than I do the FDIC and certainly more than I trust a buried PVC pipe.

I didn't withdraw now because of concerns of banking troubles this month. I just think the responsible thing to do is withdraw early or leave the money in throughout. I hope other members of this forum will do one of those 2 things. I hope the public in general will too, but there certainly is a chance that too many will withdraw too much at the same time.

-- Gus (y2kk@usa.net), November 02, 1999


Gus: It is not against the law to put cash in your safety deposit box. You can put anything you want in there. It might be prudent to take the cash home around Christmas, just in case the banks close in January. Who's going to know what you're doing?

-- cody (cody@y2ksurvive.com), November 02, 1999.

Just keep all of your receipts and a record of how you made the money with notarized proof. Knowing the bank manager won't necessarily protect you from the DEA or the IRS (or FEMA?).

-- chairborne commando (what-me-worry@armageddon.com), November 02, 1999.

Just wondering if that guy or gal (teller) informed someone that you took $20,000 out of the bank and possibly stashed it at home? Don't laugh about this, because there's a story behind my wondering.

-- be very careful (becareful@becarefulll.xcom), November 02, 1999.

...No paper work, prying questions, or need to see a manager."

Are you saying a Cash Transaction Report (which is required by law for cash transactions of that size) was not completed by the bank employee?

-- CD (not@here.com), November 02, 1999.

Gus, even if nothing was said, your bank surely filled out a Cash Transaction Request (CTR) form, since you withdrew an amount equal to or greater than $10,000. I suggest that you do two things:

1) Within the next couple of weeks, figure out someplace safe to stockpile your cash so that it is secure and also safe from fire or even damage from moisture and mildew. If you look in the forum archives, I know that there are a few threads that address these issues. The main thing to understand is that, legal or not, keeping your cash in a bank's safe deposit box does not assure you that you will be able to have access to it, should there be measures enacted to prevent cash "hoarding".

2) Convert those $20s to smaller denominations -- $10s/$5s/$1s/quarters/dimes/nickels/pennies. This is the kind of cash that will be most useful should there be a cash-only environment due to Y2K problems. The safest way to do this is to spend a couple of mornings going to different banks, changing $500 per bank to the smaller denominations. You can always say that it is for an upcoming garage sale (especially if you do this near the end of the week). Since you are strictly exchanging cash-for-cash, there should be no problem as long as the amount per bank is "reasonable".

One other consideration regarding your $20s: Chances are that you have a mix of new (counterfeit-proof) and old bills. It has always been a worry that one day the old bills might be declared as being no longer usable, with a grace period to turn them in, since clearly as long as the old bills are still allowed, counterfeiters can still print $20s. This is just one more reason to go to smaller denominations (or at least convert the old bills, if you still wanted to maintain $20s).

59 days.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.~net), November 02, 1999.

How many Catholics will go to smaller denominations?

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), November 02, 1999.

This may be a very ignorant question, but, can anybody tell me? How much can you take out of your account without a cash transaction request (CTR) being submitted by the banker? Why do they do that, anyway?

Also, does anybody know -- if I take my paychekc to the bank upon which it was drawn, and I cash it outright, is this frowned upon? thank you for any answers.

-- (robtkc@rmx.com), November 02, 1999.

Gus, you are fooling yourself if you think they DIDN'T fill out a CTR on you. And one more thing, if the bank is closed, you will not be able to get to your safe deposit box any easier han if you left the money "in" the bank...

loungin' on the living room floor...

The Dog

-- The Dog (DesertDog@-sand.com), November 02, 1999.


They write it up if it is $10,000 or more. For anyone else doing this in the future, the best thing to do is draw it out in increments of $9,999 each time.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 02, 1999.

Also robtkc, didn't see your other question. It shouldn't be frowned upon at all, if the bank printed the check, they damn well better have the money to back it up. I don't have a bank account so I do it this way all the time. They just keep asking me if I want a bank account because they want to get their greedy little hands on my money. I tell them thanks, but no thanks, I prefer not to feed the NWO.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 02, 1999.

They write it up if it is $10,000 or more. For anyone else doing this in the future, the best thing to do is draw it out in increments of $9,999 each time.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 02, 1999.

Actually, Hawk...

If you choose to use smaller amounts, as you suggest, then they will still look at how your account has been taken down by those amounts, and they call that "structuring" for which you can still get into trouble.

With all of that going on, it's completely beyond me why anyone would let those bloodsuckers keep one dime of your hard-earned money. The banking system is corrupt, just as the political system is corrupt. Gary North is correct to want an end to fractional reserve banking, and IF you knew as much about it as he does, you would be in agreement as well, that is, unless you're a bankster.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), November 03, 1999.

With all of that going on, it's completely beyond me why anyone would let those bloodsuckers keep one dime of your hard-earned money. The banking system is corrupt, just as the political system is corrupt. Gary North is correct to want an end to fractional reserve banking, and IF you knew as much about it as he does, you would be in agreement as well, that is, unless you're a bankster.

-- Patrick (pmchenry@gradall.com), November 03, 1999.

Actually Patrick I DO know as much about it as Gary, and that is why, as I have mentioned before, I do not use a bank account, and I try not to conduct any activity that serves the New World Order. My life is far more enjoyable now, and I would recommend this approach to anyone, as it will bring freedom back into your life. As more people are waking up and realizing that the value system being forced upon them by the corporate establishment is superficial and unfullfilling, they are beginning to simplify their lives, stopping to smell the roses, which makes me very happy to see.

As far as this "structuring" you refer to, no I was not aware of that. But it seems to me that if the regulation specifies the $10,000 amount and you play by the rules, you would still be within your legal limits. I realize that they will still KNOW how much money you've taken out, and that they might even attempt to profit from what they know, but that is what lawyers are for. If the structuring process itself is clearly defined as illegal, well that's a different story.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 03, 1999.

Also, the banks are under greater scrutiny since the NY banks got caught money laundering millions (yes lots of zero's) for the Russian government/mob/military whoever. The $10,000.00 is an absolute but if I'm not mistaken (darn contrails again) they also report several smaller withdraw's or "suspicious" activity.

Big brother is watching and you can bet your bippy that uncle Greenshades is getting reports of overall and regional (maybe even institional, he loves data they say) withdraw activities.

Remember how jumpy the fed's are getting on all those crazy Americans who might be on the A list.

If they raid your house and or bank and confiscate your property and money believed to possibly be involved in dubious actions, finders keepers... but they wouldn't do that any more than they would shoot and gas children.

-- squid (itsdark@down.here), November 03, 1999.

The "structuring" of account activity is watched as closely as the $10k limit. Multiple withdrawls under $10k may be judged by the watching feds to be part of the "same transaction" and to have been conducted in that manner expressly to avoid reporting requirements. Result: serious trouble. Single transactions just under $10k call attention to themselves for the same reason. Try to be more creative.

-- been there (beenthere@done.that), November 03, 1999.

Multiple sub-10k transactions *will* be tracked as "structuring", and I suspect that by so doing, you *may* open yourself up to prosecution for it, even though you didn't commit any crime by actually withdrawing the money itself!

What to do?

If it was me, I'd just take out the full amount (as you did), and have it over with. They'll file the transaction report, so what? I'm not saying "innocent people have nothing to hide", all I'm saying is that if you take out *your* money, to convert it to cash, which is *not* illegal, why make your life more "complicated" by triggering scrutiny for structuring?

In other words, if I wanted to take out that amount of money in cash (if I *had* it![g]), I'd take it out. If some Gray Suits came by later to ask why, I'd tell 'em! "My money, I wanted it!"

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), November 03, 1999.

Gus, you really need to search the net for "money laundering", "suspicious transactions", "reporting requirements", "structuring", etc. More search terms will occur to you as you search those.

Definitely make sure your bank filed a CTR. They usually do automatically, but as I recall, it is YOUR responsiblity.

$10,000 is the trigger point, but two $7500 in the same or close days unreported is a big NO-NO.

Komandant: meine "papers" sind in ordnen! Sieg heil! Sieg NixonCarterReaganBushKlinton!

-- A (A@AisA.com), November 03, 1999.

I really don't give a fluck what those bastards think. If it is legal I'll do it, and if it bothers them, I'm even MORE likely to do it. I am just salivating for an excuse to let my lawyer off of his leash.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 03, 1999.

A and Gus: I have read several times that it is the sole responsibility of the BANK to file a CTR. They can also file a separate report to the IRS, if they so choose. They can, at their whim, also report a "suspicious" cash transaction.

Based on what I have read, the ONLY thing that someone really needs to worry about is making cash withdrawals in a way that would appear to try to EVADE these options. So, from that point, indeed just going for it and letting the paperwork get written might be an advantage. Also, in the worst case where your cash is seized because it looked like it might be "drug related" -- even though no drugs or anything else drug related was found -- the CTR and other paperwork might actually help you prove that the cash is yours, and legitimately obtained.

As far as keeping cash in a safe deposit box ... "What governments cannot find, they cannot steal."

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), November 03, 1999.

Jim Lord did a thorough piece on the CTR and structuring back in his old 'Tip of the Week' series on the Westergaard site. It should still be in the archives. Here's the address:

-- BH (silentvoice@pobox.com), November 03, 1999.

Ok, I have a question. Do other countries not use the fractional reserve system? What alternative do you think there is?

-- Amy Leone (leoneamy@aol.com), November 03, 1999.


The way I went about it was to confront a teller that new me, and thats not hard if you are always doing bus. at the same bank. During this day and age of "know your coustomer",its even easyier. I by the way got all this done in Feb. Went to the teller and ordered a batch of hundreds, they told me that I could call in three days to see if it had arrivied, it was not in stock. When I went back, I first went and rented my safe-deposit box from the manager, then went to the teller window, had my money counted in front of me, then made sure that the teller and manager saw me go directly to a secluded bank room with my box. There assumption is that I put the money in the box. The teller filled out the CTR, and ask me what the money was for. A simple and correct answer would be " for purchases". Then I signed the CTR. A week later went down and ordered another batch this time in $20s. $35,000.00 worth of $20s. Three days later they gave me a call, said the money is ready. Same procedure, same questions. No problem. Several points hear, you need to fill out the CTR. If the teller forgets that , remined him/her to do it. Also try to make every one at the bank believe that its going into the safe-deposit box. Although I believe The Fed. will have its hands tied next year, you still do not want to be involed with the "Structuring Laws" they already have in place. Do not take out smaller consistent amounts to beat the law. The structuring law is very one sided, you or I have no recourse, if the fed calls it structuring, its structuring. Hows a $250,000. fine, and confiscation of your money that you drew out, plus up to 5 years in prison sound. The not so funny thing for me is that I live in a condo complex, and just the other day I noticed the teller that cashed me out going into one of the other condos with here new boy-freind, she saw me. Sure hope she thinks my money is in the vault..Good Luck...---...

-- Les (yoyo@tolate.com), November 03, 1999.

Amy, let me get this one.

I heard a report on BBC the other day indicating several Middle Eastern Moslem countries were working to convert their internal currency, not to the gold standard, but to gold. They felt the safest place for their nation's gold was in the pockets of their citizens. Of course, the Great Satan and associates would be paid in worthless fiat currency, as usual.

-- Hillbilly (Hillbilly@possum.creek), November 03, 1999.

I don't know if the teller did paperwork or not, doesn't matter to me. I was just happy that I didn't have to fill any out. Other than the long time watching her count, it was just like any other withdrawal.

I doubt that the odds of my talking with any of the "gray suits" due to this are much better than running into Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa on the same day. But if anybody ever touches my money then I'm going to die and it won't be alone.

-- Gus (y2kk@usa.net), November 03, 1999.

Les your way was exactly the way to take out large amounts of money. Banks don't keep 20,000 on hand normally, they only have what they think that they will need for the next few days.

For the others, Please note how Les took out his money. He ordered it at the bank. Several days lator it was delivered to the bank by the heavy armored truck. Les went in to the bank, just like any store operator would get change. Also, please note that Les did not surprise them with the large request for cash or deprive the every day working person of the ability to cash their paycheck at the end of the week. This is the way to do business with your bank. Another thing, Les knows who his tellers are. Get to know who works at your local branch. They may be the one who can help you with your next house or car.

You go to the teller and say that you want to take it out. A few days lator, it is delivered.

-- Ned P Zimmer (ned@nednet.com), November 03, 1999.


If you think no one saw what you put in that safety deposit box, you are kidding yourself. They probably had a camera watching your every move. And it wouldn't surprise me if they looked in those boxes on occasion.

-- (Don'tTrust@them.com), November 03, 1999.

wow! paranoia is running hot today!! :-)

-- swizz (shazing@shazam.con), November 03, 1999.

I am a former Senior Auditor for a large Florida bank, and I've read with interest the postings here. Let me assure you that bank employees are just like you and me, they have no "agendas" , they just do their jobs. The forms they must fill out for large or structured dealings in cash? They are simply one more paper requirement. The bank does them (and yes, sometimes they don't, these are humans, not machines), and bank employees know that money laundering and other criminal activities are the reason. If there is any political reason for such busy work, banks don't know it and wouldn't care anyway. To the person who thought "they" might look in the safe deposit boxes, I can basically prove that wrong. Lose your key, or let someone die, or disappear and be declared dead, and how do you think the bank gets in without the owner's key? They have to drill it open! So how could a bank employee "look" in a box? How do I think the banks will do with Y2K? I've certainly tried to find out, asking questions of many people. Unfortunately, I get the usual: answers that send me all over the place, some optimistic, some pessimistic. So, I guess I'll take most of my money out. After all, it's mine, and I can put it back when I'm dang good and ready!

-- Mr. T (writertag@yahoo.com), November 03, 1999.

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