"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the Public Treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy always followed by dictatorship."

from "The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic", by Alexander Fraser Tyler

-- Anirudh Sahni (anirudhsahni@hotmail.com), November 02, 1999

Answers

P.S. The part about "dictatorship" wasn't meant to be a scare tactic. Don't be scared.

-- Anirudh Sahni (anirudhsahni@hotmail.com), November 02, 1999.

"voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the Public Treasury" Not voting a DIME from the public treasury. Just letting the OWNERS keep 2% more of THEIR OWN money.

-- Craig Carson (craigcar@crosswinds.net), November 02, 1999.

I will thank you to not talk about MY money that way. It wasn't all their's to begin with.

-- no chance (kingoffools_99@yahoo.com), November 02, 1999.

Once again, missing the point.

Democracy is the government by the people. Implicitly, in order to live in a civilized society, each must give for the benefit of all. Period. That money then becomes part of the public treasury, which the "people" (or their representitives, in a republic such as ours) expend for the public good. Once individuals start dividing the public treasury back amongst themselves, the entire concept of democracy becomes threatened.

Suppose I-695 supporters continue the current trend forward. $30 Property taxes? That would mean the end of public schools, libraries, and a litany of other services-essential services. How about abolishing sales taxes? Federal income taxes? Taxes fund the civilization created in a democracy, albeit with a percentage of waste. Educated citizens attack the points of waste themselves, rather than erode the mechanisms which stand as a foundation to a society.

It is a matter of carrying a line of thinking to it's inevitable end. After reading postings in this forum, I can certainly understand the frustration with government waste. I cannot understand the frustrations with the concept of government. The people who honestly despise the concept of government, if they are honest, move their families to places where there is little or no impact by government-namely, wilderness. They have chosen to remove themselves from the society they despise. Honest men don't whine about the concept of taxes while enjoying the benefits.

-- Common Sense (commonsense@commonsense.com), November 05, 1999.

"The people who honestly despise the concept of government, if they are honest, move their families to places where there is little or no impact by government-namely, wilderness. They have chosen to remove themselves from the society they despise. Honest men don't whine about the concept of taxes while enjoying the benefits. " HOGWASH

Part of citizenship is a robust healthy debate about the limits of power and size of government. Making out 58% of the people to be neo- Neanderthal Troglodytes because they believe that the current level of government is excessive and because they voted a PIDDLING LITTLE 2% decrease in projected revenue (STILL A REAL DOLLAR AND CONSTANT YEAR DOLLAR INCREASE) is Sophistry of the worst kind. And liberals lost the ability to claim the moral high ground when they excused the First Delinquent for DOING what they were willing to lynch Clarence Thomas for ALLEGEDLY talking about. If you don't like I-695, Canada beckons, just head North. Keep the water on your left and stop when all the flags have red leaves on them. I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and continue to vote for MORE tax cuts. Get used to it, or leave.

-- zowie (zowie@hotmail.com), November 05, 1999.

Zowie:

It is not so much what was done, but how, that has always concerned me. This was not a reasoned reduction of unnecessary and wasteful programs that the voters agreed needed to be cut. The programs to be cut were never the issue, and are not mentioned in the initiative. The impression this gives me, is that a majority wants to pay less taxes and does not care what is cut to make that happen. As was stated above, if you follow that course you either move to a wilderness, or create one where you are.

-- dbvz (dbvz@wa.freei.net), November 05, 1999.

"The impression this gives me, is that a majority wants to pay less taxes and does not care what is cut to make that happen. As was stated above, if you follow that course you either move to a wilderness, or create one where you are. " I repeat, HOGWASH!

Our politicians have created the situation that you describe, not the 58% of voters that voted yes. Can you honestly tell me that they even READ the budget in the few days they had from the time it came out of committee until it passed? Can you give me ANY rationale for the grab-bag assortment of items funded under the MVET? You too are trying to use sophistries to justify the pro big government side, while impugning the integrity of 58 PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE who disagreed with you about the size of government by 2%. That is blind ignorance at best, demagoguery at worst. You should be ashamed.

-- zowie (zowie@hotmail.com), November 05, 1999.

"Common Sense wrote" Democracy is the government by the people. Implicitly, in order to live in a civilized society, each must give for the benefit of all. Period.

Oh my god. Here we go again. Had this debate with a professor at Standford. By the time I was finished with his left-leaning narrow butt, he was babbling about necessary use of force, taking care of the 'undesireables' and having them carted off to camps, necessary dictatorships, and making "sacrifices for ze nashun". My life is not to be sacrificed for the good of others. Why? Because you can't define what the 'good of others' is. I doubt that you would choose me as the candidate to decide what the 'good of others' is, and I certainly ain't gonna rely on you... so what we have left, is peace and harmony by each of us deciding what is good for ourselves, letting the gov't take care of basic infrastructure, and the rest is left up to private individuals. All of the suffering in the world has been caused by a group of people in leadership positions, deciding what the "common good" of the people is, and carrying it out. Remember, the 'final solution' was carried out for the good of the German people.

-- Paul Oss (jnaut@earthlink.net), November 05, 1999.