CNN was asking a man, by the name of Art Cornelius(retired airline captain),what would he say would be possibilities for the plane to crash.He mentioned LIGHT REVERSAL VALVE.This was at 7:45 AM EST.A trans script would verify this.

My question is would the time change over cause a problem with this valve to cause the plane to crash?They lost contact with the plane when the clocks changed over.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), October 31, 1999

Answers

I just heard them talking about a different crash caused by a *thrust* reverser that deployed during flight. Ouch, that's gotta smart.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), October 31, 1999.

When the plane crashed,with the golfer on it,there was discussion of air intake valves.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), October 31, 1999.

From an AP report, "Previously, a Boeing 767 crashed on May 26, 1991, near Suphan Buri Province, Thailand. The Lauda Air plane lost control and crashed after one of its engine thrust reversers accidentally deployed during a climb. The crash killed all 10 crew and 213 passengers."

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 31, 1999.

Before you let your minds wander into the twilight zone, consider the thousands and thousands of flights that take off into this same pattern over and beyond Long Island. Aviation accidents do happen and many occur during take off. This being one of the busiest flight corridors in the world, it is not too unusual for these situations to arise. Besides, everyone knows that the alien aviation disrupters are all based on the West Coast.

-- Not (too@un.usual), October 31, 1999.

I am now concerned that embedded chips with a time function could cause major problems with control valves.Could this be possible or am I way off base?

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), October 31, 1999.

ABC new says debris found with one body floating in water, so at least now they have found it.

-- Onebyone (susanwater@excite.com), October 31, 1999.

Unless they're using calendar time (date/time from realtime clock chip) start/end times to calculate elapsed time, *and* the RTC chips do automatic fall-behind resetting for going back to standard time, it's very unlikely.

The first condition is probably fairly common. The second is probably fairly uncommon, but perhaps an RTC hardware wiz could pop in and clarify it.

The reason it *could* cause a problem is that it would in essence emulate a "mini-rollover" condition, i.e., the end time would be less than the start time, which can easily blow the timing logic to smithereens unless it's specifically written to accomodate itself for that once-per year event.

While the inverse once-per-year event (fall-forward in spring) could also cause problems, it's probable that they'd be less severe, since the timer would *still* be going *forward* in time, albeit with an hour delay. (So, the effects could indeed be serious, depending on what was being controlled, and how time-sensitive it was, buuuuuuut, at least it would most likely not be logic-smashing.)

Did it sound like I was doing a lot of equivocating?

I was!

There's *no* way to speak in anything but the vaguest of generalities without knowing the *precise* conditions. Only the people who put together the hardware and software will know those conditions, and if they did screw up, I suspect they may be somewhat less than forthcoming.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), October 31, 1999.

Can't we have ONE THREAD with all the plane crash of the day stuff-?? why start a whole bunch of new threads anyway??

-- farmer (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), October 31, 1999.

Tradition. [g,d&r]

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), October 31, 1999.

This thread has evidence of 767 computer problems, and some other startling news:

767 Down

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 31, 1999.

I assume this 767 way "certified Y2K compliant", meaning, it had been "remediated", "upgraded", "made ready" etc... for the roll-over to year 2000.

The question is, did the "remediation" cause the one hour roll-back to Standard Time to crash the plane's electronics, causing a catastrophic malfunction in the plane's computers (and chips?), resulting in the complete loss of communication and control of the plane?

This seems plausible and exactly the type of Y2K caused accident one would expect to begin showing up.

If this were the only recent instance of a plane falling out of the sky, I wouldn't be writing this. But within the last week, there has been THREE planes mysteriously "fall from the sky" for no apparent reason.

Payne Stewert's plane, one of the Blue Angels planes and now this 767.

How many more planes have to crash before ALL planes are grounded indefinitely? Maybe 5 or 6 in the next two weeks? What if it's 3 in the next 30 days? At what point would pilots start refusing to fly?

Things are beginning to get interesting.

-- GoldReal (GoldReal@aol.com), October 31, 1999.

No matter how bad it gets with airline safety and plane crashes, the airlines can count on one passenger flying the skies - Peter de Jaeger.

-- Not scared atoll (itsok@itsok.net), October 31, 1999.

Farmer,

The reason I started this thread was when I ask a question on the first thread,I didn't get answer to my post and the second thread was mostly name calling.Does that answer yor question?

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), October 31, 1999.

Jet Forced To Return to Brussels

The Associated Press, Sunday, Oct. 31, 1999; 10:13 a.m. EST

BRUSSELS, Belgium  A Delta Air Lines Boeing 767 heading for New York was forced to return to Brussels International Airport Sunday after developing engine trouble. The plane landed safely with no injuries, airport officials said.

The plane was a similar model to the EgyptAir Boeing 767 which disappeared earlier Sunday shortly after leaving New York for Cairo.

Brussels Airport officials said Delta Flight 141 to New York returned to Brussels around 12:15 p.m., about 45 minutes after taking off for New York's John F. Kennedy Airport. There were 170 passengers on board, said an official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

"The flight landed safely," said Jean-Pierre Huybrechts, a Delta official at Brussels airport. "There was a problem with one of engines and the plane came back."

He declined to give more details.

Airport emergency services were put on alert, but were not needed.

-- should ground flights (for@safety's.sake), October 31, 1999.

Thank's to all.This forum is really great to be able to ask a question and get well informed answers.We are very lucky to have such a place in which to share information and ideas.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 01, 1999.

One other possibility... rumours going around that there were 18 Egyptian special forces troops on the plane, heading home after receiving training in the USA...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 01, 1999.

Andy,

I had read that on the other thread.There could be a link to that and the landing at the Air Force base.

I had read awhile back about embedded chips and the possible connection with control valves in dams and how it could be a problem.This made me wonder about other control valves and the implications of problems else where.

I don't know how to find the thread I started on the subject,I would like to make a copy of the answers to it.Can someone help me on finding the thread on dams?

I use to think the people poking fun with "and no planes are not going to fall from the sky" was such a far out example that someone would even use to discredit others who were y2k aware.I need to remember the saying about watch if they protest to much,one example being the banks and now I wonder about the safety of the planes.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 01, 1999.

Maggie,

Others have pointed out that airplanes use zulu time or GMT, which means that the time change was not likely to be the cause of the problem.

There is so much disinformation going around that we may never find out the truth, but I still suspect terrorism.

Egypt Air says they landed at Edwards, Pentagon says they didn't.

Egypt says they had special forces soldiers on board, no comment by U.S.

Egypt Air says they got an S.O.S. call, FAA says no distress call from plane.

Saudi Arabia businessman hire terrorists to screw with Egypt.

New World Order likes Saudi Arabian oil, and doesn't like competition.

Egypt has very valuable evidence on record of landing at Edwards and S.O.S. distress call from pilot, so they must have some idea what is going on.

New World Order likes to manipulate business, military, political, and terrorist organizations against each other to create financial gain and power for the NWO. They somehow manage to manipulate the key players and the media in a way that the masses never find out the truth.

Does Egypt know the truth, and if so, how will the NWO alter this throught the media? Will Bin Laden the crazy terrorist end up being the scapegoat? Of course the entire reason Bin Laden would do something like this would have nothing to do with money for Saudi Arabia and the U.S. (NWO), he's just a "crazy terrorist" who hates the U.S., right?

Uuughh!! Too much disinformation, I wish Egypt would just tell us what they know.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 01, 1999.

Where's Omar Shariff when we need him!!!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 01, 1999.

Actually Hawk I'm waiting for Sherman Skolnick to write a piece on this, he has amazing contacts...

AND he also wrote a book in the 70's I believe that documented Airline terrorism and how the Elite use these crashes to their own ends...

I'll try and dig out a link for him...

P.S.

there was also a hard bomb threat for the last few weeks saying a plane would be hit leaving from either LA or JFK...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 01, 1999.

BACKGROUND DATA ON SHERMAN H. SKOLNICK

Since 1958 he has been a court reformer. Since 1963 he has been the foundr/chairman, Citizen's Committee to Clean Up the Courts, a public interest group researching and disclosing certain instances of judicial bribery and political murders. Since 1971, his comments have been on a recorded phone message he calls HOTLINE NEWS, on 24 hours per day and it is a regular phone call, not an expensive one: [773] 731-1100. Since 1991 he has been a regular participant and producer, and since 1995 he has been producer/moderator of "BROADSIDES", a one hour weekly taped public access Cable TV Show on IN CHICAGO each Monday evening, 9 p.m., Channel 21 Cable. The program reaches some 400,000 viewers each Monday night and outpulls three local commercial TV Programs. His comments have appeared on various websites that can be located on Internet through a good search engine. There are about 70,000 references to him and his work on Internet, some, of course, replications.

In 1973, Mr. Skolnick wrote a book, "The Secret History of Airplane Sabotage", a heavily documented book dealing, among other things, with the sabotaged plane crash December, 1972, in Chicago, one month after Nixon was re-elected President. Twelve Watergate figures died when the United Air Lines plane pancaked just short of Midway airport. Dead in the crash zone were Mrs. E. Howard Hunt, wife of the Watergate burglar and others linked to the Watergate Affair. She had in her possession over 2 million dollars in valuables obtained by blackmailing Nixon on his role in the 1963 political assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Skolnick's group "liberated" the entire unpublicized file of the National Transportation Safety Board, some 1300 pages of documented reports and pictures showing sabotage. Skolnick brought a suit against the NTSB contending sabotage cover-up. The NTSB re-opened their public hearings on the crash but continued to contend it was caused by "pilot error". Skolnick who was the star-witness at the re-opened hearings demanded that the NTSB panel disqualify themselves since most were financially tied to the airlines industry and that Rockefellers, owners of all three News Networks, and major owner of United Air Lines, wanted the matter censored. The NTSB panel refused to disqualify themselves and entered a whitewash report,condemning Skolnick and his associates. Thereafter, Rockefellers' lawyers harassed the publisher so that Skolnick's book was stopped in the printing cycle and no copies are now available.

More highlights of the work of the Citizen's Committee to Clean Up the Courts. Their work in 1969, touched off the biggest judicial bribery scandal in U.S. history,the collapse of Illinois' highest court, the Illinois Supreme Court. As the head of his group, Skolnick directly accused the high court judges of bribery involving a banker who owned a bank right across the street from the high court's Chicago offices. Facing jail and on appeal to their court, the banker, the former Illinois Director of the Department of Revenue, Theodore J.Isaacs, won his criminal appeal by bribing most of the high court judges with stock in his nearby bank. Outraged by Skolnick's direct confrontation with them, the high court judges demanded that Skolnick disclose to the high court judges how he and his associates went about investigating the high court. When Skolnick refused to disclose, the high court judges had Skolnick, a paraplegic invalid in a wheelchair, hauled off to prison for "contempt of court". The imprisoning of Skolnick touched off a public commotion and the chief justice and an associate justice of the high court resigned, and a third accused high court judge suddenly died in the ruckus and Skolnick was vindicated. Caught up in a further mess involving the same bank was the former Illinois Governor by 1969 he was a federal appeals Judge in Chicago. Skolnick accused that judge, Otto Kerner,jr., of bribery as well. Kerner held press conferences and on all the local media called Skolnick a "liar". Despite his denials, Federal Appeals Judge Kerner was prosecuted and sent to prison, the highest level sitting federal judge sent to prison in U.S. history. Also imprisoned was Kerner's crony, former chief state tax collector Isaacs. Kerner died an ex-convict.

The work of Skolnick and his group touched off a series of bribery scandals by which from 1983 to 1993, 20 local judges and forty lawyers were sent to jail for bribery. Including: the Chief Judge of the Traffic court who said Skolnick with his accusations of bribery was "imagining" things. That Chief Judge was sent to prison for bribery and died an ex-convict.

In 1991, one sizeable conservative paper was the only one that dared run the story how Skolnick and his associates were the only journalists to attend a federal appeals court hearing in Chicago in a case involving suppressed bank records of the Chicago branch of Italy's largest bank,Banca Nazionale Delavoro, owned in part by the Vatican. The suppressed records, ordered so by state and federal regulators involved the secret private joint business partner of Iraqi strongman Saddam Hussein. After the hearing, in the back of the Federal Appeals Court, Skolnick interviewed two hearing participants who admitted to Skolnick that the suppressed bank records involved Saddam Hussein's private business partner, George Herbert Walker Bush, the then U.S. President. Sources had earlier informed Skolnick of that, and Skolnick, to be careful, asked the same question about that THREE times and each time, the answer was the same: Bush was the private business partner of Saddam Hussein in billions of dollars of oil-kickbacks paid to Saddam Hussein by the weak sheikdoms in the Persian Gulf. Skolnick is one of the only ones to have the more or less complete record on appeals in the case including the Affidavit of the CIA General Counsel, that revealing these matters would violate national security. The hearing participants said that revealing all this would cause a run on the banks worldwide and for that reason had to be suppressed.

In 1991, likewise published in that newspaper, "Spotlight", was Skolnick's exclusive story about the mysterious Bank of Credit and Commerce International: How the Bank of England for 30 days only had as a public record that BCCI bribed 25 per cent of both Houses of Congress, 108 Congressmen and 28 U.S. Senators. Although Spotlight did not publish Skolnick's list of bribed lawmakers, other authors claiming they got such details by other means, published some of the names thereafter in Media Bypass Magazine. It was basically the list of names, supplied to Spotlight but omitted from the published article.

Since 1995, Skolnick has put on Internet, exclusive details of the small group of highly--patriotic admirals and generals have repeatedly but unsuccessfully sought, as authorrized under the Military Code, to arrest their Commander-in-Chief Bill Clinton on their documented charges of treason. If he arrested them for mutiny,they were prepared, if they survived, to defend themselves at Courts Martial with their documents proving he sold top nuclear secrets to sworn enemies of the United States, including Red China. Clinton has met from time to time in the White House with Wang Jun, the reputed head of the Red Chinese Secret Police. Such matters have not been discussed in the mass media as they would embarrass and finger suupposed "Independent" Counsel Kenneth W. Starr. Wang Jun is Starr's PRIVATE law client. Also, Starr is the UNREGISTERED foreign lobbyist for the Red Chinese Government. Meaning that Clinton's Justice Department can whenever they wish prosecute and jail Starr as an UNREGISTERED foreign lobbyist. Wang Jun is also the head of the Red Chinese Government operation, Poly Technologies, that makes and markets AK-47 submachine guns and has reportedly attempted to sell them to U.S. inner-city narco-terrorist gangs. Were the Red Chinese hoping to instigate shoot-em-ups with local police all over the U.S. The following is a short-list of the U.S. flag officers assassinated becaused they opposed Clinton and under the Military Code sought to arrest Clinton, their Commander-in-Chief:

April 17, 1995, a planeload of top U.S. Military brass, assassinated when their plane blew up by sabotage near Alexander City, Alabama,including Clark Feister, an assistant Secretary of the Air Force, close friend of the then Secretary of Defense Perry; Major General Glenn Profitt II, director of plans and operations for the Air Education and Training Command at Randolph Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas. Also the one who had been head of a super-secret military agency that was called Army Security Agency. They had on onboard, to confront Clinton and the Pentagon with lies, a live POW, supposedly not supposed to exist, from Southeast Asia. They were prepared to show how top U.S. officials, also cronies of Clinton, were in the dope traffic from S.E. Asia, "the Golden Triangle", including George Herbert Walker Bush, retired Pentagon official General Colin Powell, and former Pentagon official Richard Armitage. Also assassinated to prevent a military coup: The highest naval officer in uniform, Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Jeremy Boorda, assassinated in his office with several caliber weapons and disguised in the press as a "suicide". Also: General David McCloud, head of the Alaska Military District, site of the Early Warning System of missile attacks; murdered by way of a sabotaged air crash. Giving aid and assistance to these flag officers planning to arrest Clinton,was the former Director of Central Intelligence, William Colby, assassinated near his vacation home and falsely written off as an alleged "boating accident". Colby had been general counsel of the CIA's bank proprietary, Nugan Hand Bank and their successor and alter ego, Household International and Household Bank. Household has their world headquarters in the Chicago suburb of Prospect Heights, Illinois. Parked with Household was 58.4 million dollars of federal funds to make good the long-pending claims of Chicago-area caulking contractor, Joseph Andreuccetti, that a series of banks, including Household, perpetrated a massive swindle on him. 50 million dollars of that was secretly transferred to Little Rock, Arkansas to try to cover up the embezzlement of 47 million dollars from Madison Guaranty Savings & Loan, for which Bill and Hillary Clinton are subject to being federal criminally prosecuted and sent to prison for misappropriation. S & L owner Jim McDougal was murdered in jail the night before his testimony about all this. His ex-wife Susan has been repeatedly harassed to shut her up on what she knows about all this. Cong. Dan Burton [R., Ind.} started to put the details of the mysterious 50 million dollars and Clinton into the Congressional Record, 5/29/96, pages H5627-28. Was it blackmail, threats, or what? that stopped Burton from putting in ALL the details.

Link at

http://www.skolnicksreport.com/bio.html

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 01, 1999.

Whew, that guy's good Andy! Hope he figures it out, cause the old NWO's got my head spinning again, the bastards. Of course regardless of the details I always know the one thing they are up to.. NO GOOD! Yeah, his picture is funny because I was just thinkin of starting a "play detective" thread to come up with some theories, but I think I'll give me gulliver a rest and let Sherman Sherlock figure it out.

I heard about that warning for LA and JFK, but ya know what I just heard on the TV news.. they said US officials have never had any reason to think that Bin Laden would attack Egypt, after I just read this yesterday...

"The paper quoted senior U.S. intelligence officials as saying the money transfers began more than five years ago and had been used to finance several attacks by bin Laden, including an attempted assassination in 1995 of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in Ethiopia."

Oh okay, I see, they never imagined he would attack Egypt!!

I know damn well even if there is anything on the black box, they'll tell us there was nothing. Boeing's ass is on the line now too, but hell they don't care, they're owned by the NWO too, so they got no worries.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 01, 1999.

Skolnick WILL deliver Hawk..

Check out this link,

I have asked them to investigate the above... the edwards angle and the 18 special forces pickup???

http://www.airdisaster.com/

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), November 01, 1999.

Hawk,I use to know a man who lived in Florida,who went to school with the leader of Saudi Arabia.He had told me how much and when oil prices would go up in early 80,s,(at the time, dumb me could care less about oil)it was proof he knew what he was talking about.I had never met him but was given his name and phone number as a business contact.

I lost or thru away his (among others) phone number years ago.I wish I had it now in order to get information.It's strange who you meet along the way.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 01, 1999.

Andy,

Great informative article,wow!

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 01, 1999.

RE the Edwards AFB stop. I heard a later report that explained that the plane didn't stop at Edwards, but DID stop at Newark which has the 3 letter identifier EWR, which could have been misconstrued by the original reporter as Edwards. Makes sense. Although.... when first mentioned they said the plane stopped at Stewart airport (which doesn't have a code like Edwards). Seems to have taken a while for them to get their story straight. [vbg]

Have you seen the report that Chris Ruddy was on a flight in the same area early Sunday morning that was diverted by rocket fire?

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=1999/11/1/101212

"Rockets" Fired in Area of Downed Jet?

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), November 02, 1999.

They were probably talking about flares to light up the search area. If they were shooting rockets that could go up to 33,000 ft. and hit the plane they would most likely have been seen by many on the mainland.

-- Hawk (flyin@high.again), November 02, 1999.