http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm Charles Rossotti, the computer specialist who has run the Internal Revenue Service for the last year and a half, has just informed House Ways & Means Committee Chairman Bill Archer that the IRS has not yet completed its inventory of computer systems in preparation to fix y2k.

According to the California White Paper, the inventory is the second 1% of a y2k repair project, after awareness.

It is possible to work on remediation before completing the inventory, but without the inventory, you don't know what the components of your overall system are, and how they interact.

He wrote that the IRS plans to complete the inventories of major offices prior to Dec. 31 and is making progress in its contingency plans.

An IRS spokesman had no comment on the letter.

Well, I've got a comment. To paraphrase a well-known Baptist preacher, "Free at last! Free at last. Great God Almighty, we'll be free at last!"

This is from Matt Drudge's site (Oct. 29). It won't stay up for long. I am sure there will be confirmation soon.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

IN LETTER, COMMISSIONER WARNS OF Y2K RISKS AT IRS

"The quality of the IRS's inventory currently poses a high risk to the Y2K effort," IRS commissioner Charles Rossotti declared in a letter to House Ways and Means Committee chairman Bill Archer.

The letter was obtained by INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY.

IBD's John Berlau reports in an exclusive set for Friday editions that the agency has not conducted a complete Y2K inventory in many of its centers and offices.

And there are growing concerns over possible mistakes made at the IRS during its initial Y2K check.

Experts have "expressed concern that hardware and software missed on the IRS's inventory may cause failures that would hit taxpayers," writes Berlau.

Although the letter to Archer is dated Oct. 15, Rossotti "didn't mention the inventory problem in a major speech he gave this week to the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants. He said then, 'In the area which is clearly critical to our whole economy, the tax system will continue to function, notwithstanding Y2K.'"

In the letter Rossotti admitted the IRS hasnt done a wall-to-wall-inventory of all IRS computers.

He wrote that the IRS plans to complete the inventories of major offices prior to Dec. 31 and is making progress in its contingency plans.

An IRS spokesman had no comment on the letter.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 29, 1999

Answers

The above is from Gary's site the all father of doom

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 29, 1999.

Zoobie,

Gary North didn't author this piece, so why is HE the father of doom? It's called reality. Sorry, but we are in for massive problems. If just the IRS is DOA and everything else is peachy-keen, it will be TEOTWAWKI. Sorry, it's just called reality.

You should be thanking GN for his superior researching, logic, writing and analytical skills or you'd probably be as clueless as the rest of the shepple.

Maybe you can explain how our beloved, bloated bureaucrat can function without the mother's milk of politics.

-- PJC (paulchri@msn.com), October 29, 1999.

Zoobie,

I'm not sure exactly what point you trying to make. I'm a newbie and I've had many people warn me about this Gary North guy, but I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what the problem is. In this case are you saying Mr. North altered the letter? Or did he just outright make it up and no such letter actually exists? Please elaborate. What is the connection with Mr. North that invalidates anything in the above post?

-- just asking (jabawaki@erols.com), October 29, 1999.

just asking: People who are desperately clinging to any straw that says that Y2K will not be a problem tend to attack Gary North on a personal level, because when it comes to Y2K, the dude has his act together. Go to www.garynorth.com, and you will see for your self that just about every page has two parts: 1) North's commentary; 2) Link the evidence.

Gary North has always challenged anyone to take the same links and present their own commentary to show how things are not in such bad shape. Noone ever has. Instead, they just make personal swipes.

Good luck.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), October 29, 1999.

just asking:

No, North didn't make up any letter. North is quoting from the Drudge Report, often accurate but Drudge is a muckraker (for what it's worth).

The North commentary is above the asterisks. There, he quotes a "California white paper" to the effect that inventory is the second 1% of remediation. North is too clever to say the IRS is less than 2% finished, of course. He lets you draw that conclusion, making no attempt to correct any false impression you may have gained.

He also starts cheerleading about "free at last." What does this mean, really? North is too clever to say, he lets you draw your own conclusion. The implication is that the IRS won't be able to function. Is this true? Did you get that impression? Good. In that case North has done his job.

If you read very carefully, you sense that the IRS has not compiled a complete list of every PC in every IRS office nationwide. Is this what Rossotti is talking about? If Drudge mentioned this, North left it out. Was it left out? North is too clever to say.

Rossotti is quoted as saying the IRS will continue to function "in an area which is critical to our whole economy." Is Rossitti telling the truth here? How could that be possible, if the IRS is less than 2% finished with remediation. Except North didn't *quite* say that, see? But surely you can see that Rossotti must be lying if they haven't finished their inventory, right? If you agree Rossotti is lying, North has done his job.

As for that "major speech" Rossotti gave to CPA's, including reassurances, did North post that speech? Well, no. You may have formed the wrong opinion if he did. North is very selective. He plys you with insinuations and implications, but never quite comes out and says anything you can pin down as being wrong. He's not out to *misinform* you, you understand. And if you were misled, that's because you drew false conclusions over which North had no control, see? That's how he does his job.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), October 29, 1999.

My Dear Mr. Flint

As usual sir, you are full of shit as a christmas turkey again. And about as informational as Y2K Pro in drag.

Some day sir, you will have to take a stance...will it be pants or a gown? Untill then limit your pin prick, nit picking, diatribes to those subjects you do know for certain. Which is what? Now there is the question! What, for sure does The Great Flint know for certain? Tweed? Or Polyestr tonight? That is the question! Is it nobler to be straight or ambedextrious....Or deceitful! Folks...I do apologize for my rant! It has been a particularly trying day for me ( I had to deal with one of Flint's cousins, of the Red Neck kind). And I come in for some news and informative dialogue...And run right into the famous Agnostic himself, tearing at another person's verasity, in his usual manner. Just got to be too much for me I guess.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), October 29, 1999.

Shakey:

Out of curiosity, had I been illustrating Koskinen's spin instead of North's, would you feel the same way? Or would you cheerlead?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), October 29, 1999.

Quote, unqoute from the Dragnet Net T.V. series.. "The facts Mam! Just the facts!" Not suppositions, opinions or sumations of what you think was said...I pay no more attentio to North's qpinion, than I do yours. I pay attention to the factual news URL's..Mr. Flint sir you do not offer URL's (facts) and no I do not belive Kosty for the same reason either... I do not care when one has an axe to grind. I have acknowledged for fifty years that just about every one who communicates to the public, just might have an axe to grind,as it where. You went after the personal observations North made...Yet you sir do not give your slant on the said article (s) just take verba shots at their slants on things.. Give us your version (interpatations). I want the real fleash Mr. Flint here. Not an internet critic of the positions others take. I know North's opinions, I know Kosty opnions (North is for TEOTWAWKI) Kosty is (Gotta keep this thing quiet as long as possible).

And yes...Even I have an axe to grind. I helped, as did millions of others to build, design and run the infrastructual civilization we live in collectively.

And collectively (we) built into it a fault. A fault, weither or not you believe it. Is going to be the greatest challenge that has faced civlized man kind with-in the last thousand years. A fault which has the potential to bring on another Dark Ages.

And if we do not stop nit picking each other to death and begin to pass on information to each other. We WILL face that Dark end time of this phase of human evolution. As I said, I am sorry for my upset, and my posting it. But I am not saying that I am sorry for what I said.

For you, sir have a goodly bit of wisdom which you choose to sit upon and all the while poke fun at others. I do not have your gift at Frivilous wordings, nor attention to spelling or punctiation. But I do know how the infrastructure works physically.

And our time is running out!! And here we still nit pick at each other. The dead line for Y2K is frim. We can't ignor it. And INCIDENTLY readers, I just came back from a round trip of about one thousand miles to confrim something Just Another Another@engineer.com said... He is right, a little later I'll try to get hold of him on a thread here and bring up the subject.

His premis being correct, and combining it with certain recent decisions, just might make infomagic a flaming Polly!

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@fory.feet), October 29, 1999.

Quote, unqoute from the Dragnet Net T.V. series.. "The facts Mam! Just the facts!" Not suppositions, opinions or sumations of what you think was said...I pay no more attentio to North's qpinion, than I do yours. I pay attention to the factual news URL's..Mr. Flint sir you do not offer URL's (facts) and no I do not belive Kosty for the same reason either... I do not care when one has an axe to grind. I have acknowledged for fifty years that just about every one who communicates to the public, just might have an axe to grind,as it where. You went after the personal observations North made...Yet you sir do not give your slant on the said article (s) just take verba shots at their slants on things.. Give us your version (interpatations). I want the real fleash Mr. Flint here. Not an internet critic of the positions others take. I know North's opinions, I know Kosty opnions (North is for TEOTWAWKI) Kosty is (Gotta keep this thing quiet as long as possible).

And yes...Even I have an axe to grind. I helped, as did millions of others to build, design and run the infrastructual civilization we live in collectively.

And collectively (we) built into it a fault. A fault, weither or not you believe it. Is going to be the greatest challenge that has faced civlized man kind with-in the last thousand years. A fault which has the potential to bring on another Dark Ages.

And if we do not stop nit picking each other to death and begin to pass on information to each other. We WILL face that Dark end time of this phase of human evolution. As I said, I am sorry for my upset, and my posting it. But I am not saying that I am sorry for what I said.

For you, sir have a goodly bit of wisdom which you choose to sit upon and all the while poke fun at others. I do not have your gift at Frivilous wordings, nor attention to spelling or punctiation. But I do know how the infrastructure works physically.

And our time is running out!! And here we still nit pick at each other. The dead line for Y2K is frim. We can't ignor it. And INCIDENTLY readers, I just came back from a round trip of about one thousand miles to confrim something Just Another Another@engineer.com said... He is right, a little later I'll try to get hold of him on a thread here and bring up the subject.

His premis being correct, and combining it with certain recent decisions, just might make infomagic a flaming Polly!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@fory.feet), October 29, 1999.

IRS prepared for Y2K, agency tells Congress

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sixty-three days prior to the year 2000, an Internal Revenue Service official Friday reassured Congress the agency would be ready for problems caused by the Y2K computer bug.

Paul Cosgrave, chief information officer for the IRS, told a House panel that the tax collection agency does not anticipate any major failure of its computer systems due to the Y2K bug.

However, he said that in the "highly unlikely" event that systems do fail, the IRS has backup systems in place.

The Y2K software glitch has led the IRS to replace some major computer systems, Cosgrave said. Without those changes, "We literally would not have been able to process tax returns.

Cosgrave's testimony came two weeks after IRS Commissioner Charles Rossotti wrote to Congress, indicating that a discrepancy in inventories of IRS computers could pose a risk in checking for potential Y2K problems.

Asked about the letter, Cosgrave acknowledged that the IRS has had problems in tracking the estimated 800,000 items in its computer inventory because of the agency's "highly decentralized" nature.

But he told the House panel that the IRS expects to complete a "wall-to-wall" inventory by the end of the year and is already "over the 90 percent level."

################################

They're "over the 90% level" with their inventory? Sounds great to me! Wait a sec. Doesn't that leave about 80,000 items or so, using their numbers? Oh, well, no problem. That's only 1,300 computers/day to inventory, remediate, and test in the time remaining. Piece of cake.

-- gotta (love@the.irs), October 30, 1999.

Hey, Gary's my bud!Gary's taken the most extreme viewpoint to cut through the miasma of spin and smiley face reports and hit the sheeple with a healthy dose of DOOM,which might very well lie ahead.I'm a bit tongue in cheek after a year plus of foaming at the mouth about y2k to anyone who'll listen.Never going out to dinner or movies and spending all my extra income(very meagre)on beans and rice and convincing nobody that does not want to hear it.My failed attempts to convince anyone that they should at least take enough personal responsibility to just buy just one measly bag of rice at 20 bucks for 100 pounds has produced so much ennui that I find it blackly amusing when I post ..."Mohawked ex-yuppies will steal your food and rape your ass to punish you for not trying harder to warn them when you had the chance that the y2k threat was real."To me,calling Gary the all father of doom is an homage,not a slam.And I could care less what sect of christian he is.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 30, 1999.

OK, "The facts Mam! Just the facts!" This is an interesting exercise.

The facts we have are, that North posted that Drudge was going to report on What Rossotti said about the IRS, and that CNN wrote that Paul Cosgrove reported on the IRS status to congress.

So Item #1: How much credibility do we give these sources? Paul Milne himself has pointed out that news agencies reporting on Milne have got it wrong without exception. So we are to some degree *assuming* that these news reports are accurate and got it right.

OK, the sources report that according to Cosgrove, the IRS plans to be "ready for problems caused by the Y2K computer bug." How many problems? Well, Rossotti is reported to have told Bill Archer that "the tax system will continue to function." How well? Doesn't say, but John Berlau of Investment Business Daily is said to have reported that "experts" have have "expressed concern that hardware and software missed on the IRS's inventory may cause failures that would hit taxpayers."

Item #2: What do we have here anyway? We have North saying that Drudge will report that Berlau will report that unnamed experts have expressed concern. Actual facts are becoming more distant all the time here.

Back to the CNN report, Cosgrove says that the IRS "does not anticipate any major failure of its computer systems due to the Y2K bug." What does that mean? That they don't know? That they anticipate minor failures? This is entirely open to interpretation, no facts involved. CNN also reports that Cosgrove said that the IRS has an estimated 800,000 computers. They don't know exactly, because they haven't inventoried them all. Which ones haven't been inventoried and what do they do? We are not told. Can we deduce that the uninventoried computers cannot cause "major" failures? Only if we assume everything else in these stories is accurate.

NOW, on to the matter of interpretation. Facts (such as they are) are one thing, and interpretation of those facts is quite another. How should all this be interpreted? Here are some suggestions:

1) The IRS is hopelessly behind, and probably can't function at even a minimum level. To accept this interpretation, you must (a) accept as valid the reports that the inventory isn't complete; (b) arbitrarily assign a high importance to those systems not yet inventoried; and (c) Reject Rossoti's and Cosgrove's claims that the IRS will "continue to function" and that failures are "highly unlikely."

If you impose enough such interpretations on enough such reports (*with* North's help, I insist), Then you reach Shakey's conclusion that y2k is "the greatest challenge that has faced civlized man kind with-in the last thousand years", or maybe "gotta"s conclusion that 1,300 computers must be remediated per day before rollover, implying that the IRS cannot function unless this happens.

2) The IRS is in very good shape, should handle the century change without problems, and the uninventoried computers are insignificant. To reach this conclusion, you must (a) Accept the statements of functionality from Rossotti and Cosgrove; (b) discount the importance of the missing items completely, and (c) believe that the continuing efforts, contingency plans, and backup systems will be effective and sufficient.

If you impose enough such interpretations on every story, you end up factoring out all of the warning signs we see all around us. The wisdom of such an approach is questionable at best, in my opinion.

3) The IRS will see a performance degradation of unknown (and possibly substantial) degree. This interpretation depends on (a) recognizing that the expressed confidence is inconsistent with the incomplete inventory; (b) assuming that the IRS focused on critical items at the cost of ignoring what they considered least important; and (c) recognizing that there's a long way between fully functional and minimally functional.

I personally hold with this third interpretation. The behavioral implications (to me) are, that you should pay your taxes, and forget about any refunds, and keep monitoring the situation. Your mileage may vary.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), October 30, 1999.

AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!MY ASS!!!!!MY ASSSS!!I'M BLEEEEEEDINGGGGG!!!

-- ZOOBIE (zoobiezooob@yahoo.com), October 30, 1999.

My Dear Mr.Flint

Thank you. At least now we can have a discussion of some substance. Yorposition is that we,the general public should quietly and calmly stand by and wat foran indeffinate time for our refunds. If we should ever get them. And this from an agency which has shone no consideration or mercy upon their chosen victums?

Surely sir, you must not be a student of human nature. I do not think you are gong to get the calm collected and cool respondse you wish for. I believe that a hue and cry WILL be raised untill there will be a single politian, living or now deceased.Who will not know about the general public's displeasure.

It would be far better, and more prudent for the powers to be,to have the matrix set up with the states in order to switch to a national sales tax the instant that the main frames crash. In this way, and in only this way can gov.org maintain control and revenues to run the gov. And in this way, and onlyin this way can the power that be show the generalpublic that they can effectively run the country under any emergency type situation.

To do it any other way invites anarchy. John Q. Public will go through the roof when they find out that they have been fed a line of misinformation designed with the sole purpose in mind of keeping them the dark about the reality of the computers and embeded systems actual condition. It is the human factoryouhave notaddressed in your position sir. And again thank you for your thoughts, they are valued.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), October 30, 1999.

IRS will be seen as CRIMINAL THIEVES, stealing your money.

-- and it's true (they@are.robbers), October 30, 1999.

Shakey:

I agree that if too many refunds are delayed for too long, there will be an outcry, and something will be done. Probably something sloppy and slow, but they'll do something for (as you say) political and appearance reasons.

However, attractive as something like a national sales tax, VAT, flat tax or some such may be, the logistics of such a switchover are mind boggling. Think of some of the implications there -- millions of sellers must collect this tax, there must be a large and complex administration in place to regulate this process, there must be fat books full of rules to be followed. We'd need to create, distribute, and learn to use endless new forms. Entire highly experienced new dapartments would need to be set up at all levels to handle this administration, and where would that experience come from?

Beyond this, millions of companies are running payroll software that implements the current tax system, automatically withholds a whole list of taxes (calculated from current tables), and automatically forwards those funds to the appropriate city, county, school district, state, and federal collection departments. You aren't just going to throw a switch and everyone goes from the current procedures to something not even defined yet, much less that we have software to handle. That kind of change requires years of planning, including detailed plans for the phase-in.

Ever seen such plans (they exist)? They are huge. Is food going to be taxed? We gotta define every item as food or nonfood. How about the millions relying on deductions for their mortgage interest? Do we make them all lose this overnight and suffer? Will there be different tax levels on different products (gasoline, cigarettes, booze)? You gotta go item by item selecting the tax rate for each, and defining any gray areas.

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. I'm not saying this shouldn't be done, or shouldn't have been done long ago. I'm just saying it takes years to accomplish something like this in even a minimally workable manner. And as a footnote, the incredible mountain of software to support all this (which has yet to be written) would itself need to be compliant.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), October 30, 1999.

Dear Mr.Flint

Sir, again,you have given of your self and your thoughts. But I fear I must point out that anarchy, even civil war could well be in the balance of said change over of the tax system, to another, easier to collect system. You might be surprised at the speed that Fed. org can move when the fire (so to speak) is igniting all around them.

The basis for a national end users tax is already in place.And the people to collect it are already in place. Namely the states themselves can /will collect the tax as well as the state sales tax. Then remit the fed's their just due. I might further point out that it is also the method orginally intended by the founding fathers in the constitution.

But alas,none will listen or hear. And this coming situation will play itself out against the back ground of the greatest social upheavel since the fall of the Roman empire.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@fory.feet), October 30, 1999.

Shakey:

You may be right. I can't see the future. I consider your visions highly dubious, but one thing about the future -- nothing can be ruled out. I suppose in an infinite universe, everything that can happen will happen. But I think you've accelerated the time scale a bit. We'll have to wait and see. Keep your fingers crossed.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), October 30, 1999.

Of course, as everyone knows, the IRS has always performed efficiently, accurately and fairly. It has never had any computer problems. It has never played fast and loose with the truth to anyone. There is absolutely no evidence for doubting the IRS will be problem-free regarding Y2K. The moon is made of green cheese. The stork brings babies. There is a Santa Claus. Now clap your hands for Tinkerbell.

-- Peter (Pan@never-never.land), October 30, 1999.

My Dear Mr. Flint;

Sir I indeed apreacate your thoughts, but may I humbly offer that this "sudden" eclispe of socialital manners. Would be taking place in a senerio in which it is not only fed.org who is under massive computer malfunctions, but that the the JIT infrastructure will also under devistating assault.

I base my rather (self admitted) jaundice view point upon personal experience gained during two episodes in my past life experience. The first being the Watts riots in California.The second, to me more brutal,was the Liberty City riot in Florida. In sadness sir,you place far too much confidence in humanity, and it's collective ability to react to sudden and near certain clamities. And said severe destructive reactions will be too far spread and common for any one to asume any kind of a sence of safety.

Mr. Flint indeed sir, I will surely pray for the BITR. But experience tells me to just stay at my place (far away from a major city). because it is going to get very rough.

I once again thank you for your insightful thoughts, and I do look forward to discussing subjects with you again in the future, while the internet is up to do so.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a-Bunker@forty.feet), October 30, 1999.

Shakey:

I too hope for ample opportunity to talk in the future. I admit I am not familiar with the Liberty City riot. I'll admit that all the riots I'm aware of have taken place in low income, high population density areas (inner cities). The destruction and looting was of local merchants within these areas, and the riots were immobile, failing to spread beyond these boundaries.

As I've written before, not only is it difficult for me to imagine my own, mostly elderly middle class neighbors rioting, but it would take truly heroic logistics to transport an existing riot many miles away to an unfamiliar territory and still maintain the intensity.

Also, riots tend to burn out fairly quickly once nothing remains to be looted within riot-prone neighborhoods and populations. At least this has proven true in the past. Whether delayed entitlement payments would trigger widespread riots I cannot guess. Cold weather might also reduce intensity. I consider the probability of riots to be fairly low, but of course I cannot take into account all contributing factors without detailed knowledge of an uncertain future. I'd recommend avoiding such areas, and being armed.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), October 31, 1999.

I don't see how people could find room for ambiguity in my cutting and pasting a gary north post.I also don't see how people could construe my refering to G.N. as a doomer to contain polyanna sentiment.Hell,I've been a foaming at the mouth doomer idiot for way over a year now.Buy more beans!!

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 31, 1999.