Fed officials proposes tracking devices in greenbacks to combat "hoarding"

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Not a joke... http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,32121,00.html No Deposit, Less Return
by Declan McCullagh

3:00 a.m. 27.Oct.99.PDT
WASHINGTON -- US currency should include tracking devices that let the government tax private possession of dollar bills, a Federal Reserve official says.

The longer you hold currency without depositing it in a bank account, the less that cash will be worth, according to a proposal from Marvin Goodfriend, a senior vice president at the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond.

In other words, greenbacks will get automatic expiration dates.

"The magnetic strip could visibly record when a bill was last withdrawn from the banking system. A carry tax could be deducted from each bill upon deposit according to how long the bill was in circulation," Goodfriend wrote in a recent presentation to a Federal Reserve System conference in Woodstock, Vermont.

The 34-page paper argues a carry tax will discourage "hoarding" currency, deter black market and criminal activities, and boost economic stability during deflationary periods when interest rates hover near zero.

It says new technology finally makes such a scheme feasible. "Systems would have to be put in place at banks and automatic teller machines to read bills, assess the carry tax, and stamp the bills 'current,'" the report recommends.

Goodfriend said in an interview that banks might place a kind of visible "date issued" stamp on each note they distributed. "The thing could actually stamp the date when the bill comes out of the ATM," he said.

-- Declan McCullagh (declan@y2kculture.com), October 27, 1999


Yet another "the gubmint is da devil!!" thread.

-- (Clan@of the. Cullagh Bear), October 27, 1999.

That could be a nightmare!

-- ~~~~ (~~~@~~~.com), October 27, 1999.


What's next?


-- Owl (a@a.com), October 27, 1999.

Too late. There are too many other things for the fed to do in the meantime.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), October 27, 1999.

Gold, Dinars, and maybe even Euros?

In other countries, especially third world, like the U.S. could rapdily become, other currencies in addition to the official currency circulate.

Also check out
and other alternate money and payment systems.

-- A (A@AisA.com), October 27, 1999.

Translation of Fed statement by babelfish.altavista (BS to English setting):

We only have $1 for every $100 of your deposits. We realize that y2k will reveal to all the fraud of the fractional reserve system. We will be getting very, very desperate. Can you say hyperinflation?

-- a (a@a.a), October 27, 1999.

This is NOT Marvin's area of research.

I smell a troll.

-- nothere nothere (notherethere@hotmail.com), October 27, 1999.

I get a $100 dollar bill from the casino.

I bring it to the bank.

"Oh" says the teller, "this one's been in circulation outside of banks for over 2 years. Here's your $47.50. Have a nice day."

What a ridiculous idea (unless of course we all carry time stamp recognition devices in our pockets to check the age of all bills we receive.)

-- Me (me@me.me), October 27, 1999.


"Read the article !!!

They want to put an expiration date on the mag stripe and limit your ability to get your OWN money out whenever they feel like it, and tax you on the value if you don't spend it !!

Lock and load !!


Got Au ?!


The mag stripes show up on certain airport "special" metal detectors."

-- stop the bastards (reptile@fedreserv.FU), October 27, 1999.

I wonder how much this 34 page report cost the taxpayers.

Your .gov at work. Another brilliant idea, on how to separate you from more of your money. Ain't it just wonderful...

Tick... Tick... <:00=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), October 27, 1999.

Yes, some of the libertarian economists I interviewed were somewhat surprised that Marvin proposed this, but only because they thought he was more sensible. But this is most definitely his area of research: monetary policy. That was the purpose of the fed conf last week: To figure out what to do if the US does a Japan.

Yet another reason to ignore trolls.

-- Declan (declan@y2kculture.com), October 27, 1999.

How can I get a job working for Da Fedz so I can sit around all day, come up with stupid ideas, and get paid for it?

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), October 27, 1999.

Thank-you very, very much Declan. I don't know how you manage to get this stuff, but I'm glad you do.

I think I smell fear coming from the direction of the government and the banking system. I wonder, if they push the price of gold down further, outlaw mattress dollars and then get their interbank payment system twisted up by Y2K, just what they think they're going to run the remaining economy on? How best to protect the seniorage they love so much?

More beans please.

-- JIT (justintime@rightnow.net), October 27, 1999.

These folks are proposing mere half-measures.

How about something implanted in cash that automatically summons SWAT team if you accumulate "too much" of it?

Drastic, but, hey, it's "for the children."

-- Not Whistlin' Dixie (not_whistlin_dixie@yahoo.com), October 27, 1999.

Too bad mag stripes are so easily degaussed in the presence of a powerful magnet!

-- PoshSpice (wayback@netherlands.ne), October 27, 1999.

As trust in the Government plummets to an ALL time low, maybe at some point we should hoard...er stockpile, old currency, ones that do not contain the "technology" for the tax. In fact since we don't know when it will be imposed, lets start NOW!

Just cash our paychecks and keep old bills...pay any purchases with the new, plastic thread containing paper. In a couple of months, the Federal Reserve will be Bankrupt!!

Look, guys, if ya hate the FED, stop cooperating with it!!

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), October 27, 1999.

"The magnetic strip could visibly record when a bill was last withdrawn from the banking system. A carry tax could be deducted from each bill upon deposit according to how long the bill was in circulation," Goodfriend wrote in a recent presentation to a Federal Reserve System conference in Woodstock, Vermont.

We already have a "carry tax" on cash. It's called INFLATION!!

-- Clyde (clydeblalock@hotmail.com), October 27, 1999.

You think keeping old bills will somehow preserve the value of your cash?

Silly goose!

All they have to do is decree that "All older bills must be exchanged for NewBux(tm) by this time yesterday, at which point they shall no longer be negotiable. Have A Nice Day!"

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), October 27, 1999.

Yes. And if you show up with your "oldbux", you better be prepared to explain and document why you have so many of them, or you can just go talk to the IRS and the DEA while your "newbuxs" are held for safekeeping.

More beans. Maybe 50 pullets.

-- JIT (justintime@rightnow.net), October 27, 1999.

They don't need any modern technology. All they have to do is print money in different colors. For instance: Yellow dollars are only good until the end of the first quarter. From that date till the next quarter only Red dollars will be honored. Its a lot cheaper and quicker than electronic strips.

I wonder how much MPC (Military Post Script) is sitting around in wherehouses all over the country. I suspect that dollars could be outmoded within a week or two if only MPC or yellow dollars had value.

Bill in South Carolina

-- Bill Solorzano (notaclue@webtv.net), October 27, 1999.

Thanks for the article Declan. My take on this is that Marvin made the point that such a scheme would be overly complex and very likely not workable in practice. He probable was assigned to investigate and report. This is the report. Can you imagine retrofiting or replacing ALL the ATM machines in the country??? Add to this all the other POC (point of cash) terminal equipment, etc and I think it becomes clear that this is simply not going to work.

They have already almost done away with cash by default anyway. There isn't that much of it around in comparison with the total of transaction and cash accounts, let alone bonds, equities and other 'stuff'. So I don't really know what the point would be since there isn't that much to 'hoard', you know.

People talk about the Fed printing money, but they really they just manufacture electronic blips these days.

-- ..- (dit@dot.dash), October 27, 1999.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the common populace decided on a totally different medium of exchange like a barter system, or services for services, and left the bank and government totally out of the loop? I must be dreaming................

-- Jay Urban (Jayho99@aol.com), October 27, 1999.

"My take on this is that Marvin made the point that such a scheme would be overly complex and very likely not workable in practice."

Nope. That's exactly the opposite of what he said. He recommend (as I quoted) that the Fed should develop such a scheme, and that the tech made it possible.

You gotta get your facts right, otherwise you look silly.

-- Declan (declan@y2kculture.com), October 27, 1999.

A scheme completely opposite to what democracy and capitalism is for. We're darn near having something else altogether than a democracy, with this scheme put in place we might as well stop the pretense and call it what it is, Fascism.

-- Chris (#$%^&@pond.com), October 27, 1999.

Did you notice this Fed Vice-President didn't give any reason why he wanted to track (actual tax/devalue/expire) ALL private (non-banking) money.....

Now, why would he not want private ownership of money? Could it be - as stated - that the fed's lose control of people if those people have any privacy? If all transactions are through the debit card/credit card, then all transactions can be taxed (yes), and can be tracked (yes), and can be controlled....so the people can be controlled.

Without needing messy internal passports, or getting tattooed on the wrist.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Marietta, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), October 27, 1999.

My take is that Marvin missed the boat on this one. Tell me what you think of this idea:

Instead of "self-expiring" strips in new greenbacks, Da Fedz will imbed "self-DESTRUCTING" strips. I know, I know. Hear me out...

The banks have the only mechanism to "reset" these strips to an arbitrary time period -- 30 days, say. At the end of the 30 days, if not reset by the bank, the bill starts hissing and zitzing and smoking (like Mr. Phelps' tape in "Mission Impossible") and self-destructs. (Higher denomination bills could, as an alternative, be set to explode.)

The "velocity" of money would increase exponentially. We'd all be spending our butts off before our pockets melt down, thereby keeping the almighty economy churning along at faster and faster rates. The stock market would soon reach 100,000 ("with a bullet," as Variety would say). Those who didn't spend quickly enough would be effectively removing their dollars from circulation, helping keep inflation down.

So, do I get the job? (I've got some NEAT ideas for quarters!)

-- I'm Here, I'm There (I'm Everywhere@so.beware), October 27, 1999.

Chris is correct.

Declan, you know that I have often scorched you, even today. And I don't apologize.

That said, do you see yourself as having no responsibility to do anything other than "tweak" people, including on this forum?

You know darn well that journalists today advocate, both explicitly as well as implicitly. "Objective journalism" was always a myth. Indeed, in the olden days, everyone was out front about it.

What is your personal CONVICTION about the article you just wrote? Do you agree with this plan? Disagree with it? If you disagree, are you going to write about its dangers?

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), October 27, 1999.

They want to be able to tax you in your field, tax you in your vineyard, tax you in your olive yard, tax your goats, tax your sheep, tax your cows, tax your camels, tax your horses, tax your chickens, tax your wheat growing in the field, tax the ground, tax the grass for grazing, tax your house, tax your property, tax what you just bought, tax you when you want to go fishing, tax you when you go hunting, tax you when you move, tax you when you sit, tax you when you bank, tax you when you don't bank, so much so that now your wife will have to go out and work for another, answer to another as the government swells their ranks every year to slowly eat out your substance. ....

...in short, they want to make us their SLAVES!!!!!!

Folks, if you still can't see it now, wake up, they are moving in the direction of the ultimate (sales) tax: the mark of the beast as prophesied thousands of years ago, when no body will be able to buy or sell without the mark.

If people cannot appreciate the evilness and the insidiousness of the "no deposit, less return" mentality for what it is (satanic enslavement and bondage) then wait around a while as they (the bankers and their co-horts) keep improving on this idea till THE "anti-christ" WILL come up with something even more sinister. By then, so many will be so blinded by their lack of love for the Truth, that they will fall for delusions such as these. The world establishment will make it sound like: "finaly, we can solve all your problems, get you back to paradise (remember the garden Eden?) but first we need to get those drug dealers and those evil black marketers and everyone doing "gasp" business under the table. But first, folks, we need to rescind all your rights to privacy in order to accomplish this but TRUST US, you'll be a lot happier in the long run and we can rid our societ of vermin and EVERYONE will pull their fair share."

So then, when the government or any government agency has any kind of problem with you, be it DMV, IRS, OSHA, CPS, HHS, THE PRESIDENT, JANET RENO, or they don't like your politics because you have a vote for Alan Keyes sign in your yard and you are making too much noise in the local state elections or they don't like your stand on "partial- birth" infanticide ...when you go to the store to buy a loaf of bread you might discover that their is a hold on your account and no can buy until you get straightened out. Or ... maybe you are the store owner, thought you were independent, but they shut you down from selling anything to anybody because YOU have a little problem that your Masters need for you to clear up. Take your time. It's up to you. Whenever you get around to it.

Can anybody say, "it's cooooommmiiiinnngg?"


-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), October 27, 1999.

As I said in another thread, if someone wants to type it in,I can fax them the most interesting six pages or so.

Do I agree with this? No. I will probably write a column when I have time. I will also be speaking for an hour to the Libertarian Party of California's 2000 convention, and will probably address this during my speech. Assuming the lights are back on by the spring. :)

-- Declan (declan@y2kculture.com), October 28, 1999.


Are you part cat or something? Do you like to claw people for fun? If you read my post I'm talking about the real politik/praxis, not the appearances of the report. It is very possible that Marvin is so clueless that this makes sense to him, I counldn't tell you about that. Its pretty obvious to me that the 'plan' or 'proposal' is a useless exercise. It is too complex to be put into practice.

Just My Humble Opinion (JMHO)

So, why not have a conversation rather than a shooting match?

-- ..- (dit@dot.dash), October 28, 1999.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ