Yesterday, I inadvertently opened someone's mail that had been left in my box by the mail carrier. A major oil company credit card had sent a settlement offer to have the account paid off which included a forgiveness debt of about 1/4 of the bill. Then they stated: "I understand unforeeseen situations can occur and have an impact on your financial condition. Therefore we are offering you an opportunity to settle your account for the amount of ---, which represents a 20% reduction froom the current balance. We have set up special payment arrangements that will allow you to pay the settlement offerin full BEFORE Y2K. To take advantage of this settlement, offer you must adhere to the following payment schedule. Is this fairly common now? I don't know because I've had my bills consolidated a long time ago.

-- Marsha (MSykes@court.co.macon.il.us), October 26, 1999

Answers

Did it actually use the words "before y2k". That sounds very odd.

-- hamster (hamster@mycage.com), October 26, 1999.

Yes. It was from Shell.

-- Marsha (MSykes@court.co.macon.il.us), October 26, 1999.

Marsha,

Could be someone was _very_ behind in paying their bills. Companies frequently make 'discount' offers for people to pay before turning it over to a collection agency which might keep 50% or more of what they collect.

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), October 26, 1999.

This hadn't occurred to me, but just as Y2K is being exploited as a marketing tool, it could also be exploited as a "persuader"--one ploy to try with a delinquent account before the gloves come off.

-- Thinman (thinman38@hotmail.com), October 26, 1999.

Some of you here have seen my postings on why I believe that all your credit cards should be maxied for the roll-over..I know carry hugh debt into the new year and I have been able to get new cards for almost every-thing, plus my new car, because of my good credit. However to my shock I just received my first decline in 30+ years, from the Mobil oil company for a gas card. But I got my $2500.00 Cosco card after that...---...

-- Les (yoyo@tolate.com), October 26, 1999.

Les,

As far as I know some companies scrutinize your credit report for how many cards you get at a time. A lot of companies will only give you a card if you have not acquired more then two card in a month.

When I went through my divorce I had sterling credit. I tried to acquire a Visa, Mastercard and American Express. Visa and AMEX send me a card immediatley. Mastercard denied my a card. When I called that was the explanation they gave me. Which I then verified with a friend in the banking industry.

-- STFrancis (STFrancis@heaven.com), October 26, 1999.

And won't it be fun when the latest "improvements" to financial regs go into place? When your bank has merged with your insurance company which is now part of your brokerage, it won't take 'em two shakes to know exactly when, how, and with whom you've done any sort of business at all.

"Sorry, sir, it appears that you've contracted cancer and that your brokerage account has a declining balance. You are therefore not a good credit risk. We must respectfully decline your application."

Forget Big Brother, kids. Get ready for Big Banker.

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), October 26, 1999.

Les,

I think your attitude is abhorent! If you're hoping that the rollover creates a paerwork fiasco that leads to the loss of your credit history, then what's the difference between you and someone who commits fraud? Maybe you too thick to figure out that credit card fraud costs everyone in the long haul. Get a life, you shiftless bum!

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), October 26, 1999.

TM...I have consistently on this forum stated my position on credit card balances. It is only fraud if you intend to defraud. That is not my intention. Without going into boring detail, Im taking my 30 plus years of prestine credit behavior, and holding its worth in my hand. To me it is now tangable. Pure and simple its only a Y2K insurance policy issued to me by the banking system that keeps telling me there Y2K OK. Ronald Ragan said Trust but Verify. Come some time in the second quarter I may see some indication that the bank was telling me the truth, it was OK, at that time I may pay off any outstanding credit cards. BUT I KNOW THAT WONT HAPPEN. The complexities of the computing systems of the world-wide banking institutions are to big and vast to remedy-ate for such a late start. When they start to fail over there because of non-compliance, it will eventaully shut it down here. Im not hoping this to happen, but just like the fellows who are trying to call the market/gold, I feel its a safer bet to call the end of the banking system...---...

-- Les (yoyo@tolate.com), October 26, 1999.

Les,

...so you intend to pay back every last cent regardless of the final state of your credit records?

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), October 26, 1999.

Les,

Dressing up a pig in an evening gown, jewelry, a wig and perfume doesn't make it a beauty queen...it's still a pig. Your argument is a thief's argument. Wake up today before you get a new address... (courtesy of our federal government).

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), October 26, 1999.

TM-- do not mis-understand what Im trying to say here. 30 plus years of all-ways paying every last cent. Some folks can read the markets, know when to get in and when to get out. I do not know that game. But on the game of Y2K, contrary to the popular belief that the big guys have enuff money to fix the problem, I say the bigger they are the harder they fail...to little tolate.com. TM the banks are going to lose there eyes. Digital eyes that is. Now heres a question for you. If the banks cannot continue business as usual next year, or they have no idea who is owed what, or who owes them what, how long do you suggest I chase them to try and convince there dead computers that I owe them money. They will not believe me, and the reason why is it doesnot show on there computer screen. All the bull-shit about keeping banking hard copy records is not proof to them of what you or they owe. The bottom line is what there monitor says period...---...

-- Les (yoyo@tolate.com), October 26, 1999.

It can be turned upside down and inside out, it is still intended theft.

-- Nana (drac@mediaone.com), October 26, 1999.

Hello Nana...Apparently you dont believe in insurance. In my life, besides having pristine credit with the intent of keeping it that way, I have always been a believer in heavy insurance, you know cover all the bases. So as I have already previously stated. THIS IS NOTHING MORE THEN INSURANCE. Now if you think that is intentional fraud, let me please ask you a question. What would you call Fractional Reserve Banking? you know the promise that your bank gives you and all the rest of us, (AT ANY TIME, AT ANY OF OUR BANCHES, A DEPOSITOR MAY REQUEST ANY OR ALL OF THERE DEPOSIT IN CASH.) Just for your infomation Nana, if only 2% of a cross section of all depositors in this country wanted to clean out there account today, that action would not and could not be honored. Now tell me Nana is that fraud or not? Meanwhile I faith-fully pay my minimum every mouth. Im sure that the banks will come up with all kinds of insentives to pay off those balances before the roll-over, so as to convert that wonderful substance we call cash into there digital abyss...---...

-- Les (yoyo@tolate.com), October 27, 1999.

Les,

Have you no conscience? Those credit card balances represent goods and services you are legally obligated to pay. More importantly, you are MORALLY obligated to pay what you owe regardless of the fact that all or part of your records may be lost. That concept has been a foundation stone upon which every civilization stands.

Any honorable man or woman would consider your intentions reprehensible.

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), October 27, 1999.

Ok you lousy self righteous suckers! Listen up! I understand what les did, because I did it, to the tune of $30,000. All his justifications about his credit history aside...(i'm too young to have 30 years of good creit) you are forgetting a few things: #1 I have to prepare for my family and as many others as possible, and if that means screwing VISA, so be it. I make my own decisions and my own mistakes, and i'll pay it back if nothing happens, every red cent. BUT, the other benefits of stocking up should be obvious, it not only helps me, but when id did it (last year) it helped ratchet up prodcution of those items I bought. (gee, looks like big demand for pork & beans, churn out another million cans) now, even if that is overblown, should you say to your kids: "gee hon, soirry we ran out of food... I didn't think having debt was a good idea, so I only used petty cash for y2k... oops" Believe me, i'm not guilt tripping, i put my GOOD NAME (credit) where my mouth is. We have friends who are very poor, living hand to mouth almost, I stocked up for them on credit... how could I not? even if nothing happens how could I say to them "my credit means more to me than you"? chew on that, self righteous ones. PS if any VISA employees show up at my house, i'll give em 30,000 worth of beans, ie three cans.

-- jeremiah (nowhere@notthere.com), October 27, 1999.

Jeremiah,

--"I have to prepare for my family and as many others as possible, and if that means screwing VISA, so be it."

Let's say that sometime in January your neighorhood loser decides to pick up a gun and says to his wife: "I have to prepare for my family and as many others as possible, and if that means screwing Jeremiah, so be it." Not a very pleasant thought is it? Or,...

Instead of using VISA, let's try plugging in some different names. "I have to prepare for my family and as many others as possible, and if that means screwing (Joe's Market, or Fred's Hardware Store, or Jones Grain Co-op), so be it." Maybe the names you plug in happen to be the good friend or neighbor down the street.

Your personal example is better than Les' intentions because you eventually paid back what you purchased on credit, but you fail to hide your self-centered attitude by making the excuse that you're doing it for a good cause. Baloney! Be responsible Man!! Don't sell your soul for belly full of beans!

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), October 27, 1999.

who said I wasn't self centered? can't I be self centered and justified? my basic justification (borrowed from mindless liberals) is "think globally, act locally" I don't plan to screw bob's hardware if I can help it (besides when is my business considered "screwing him" VISA pays himn, I pay VISA later, that's how it works) also, I beleive that certain things are lost causes, like NY, any energy put into "saving" NY is wasted (assuming y2k is bad, but that's why we're here right?) you say i'm self centered? HEll YES!! and proud of it, my order of importance goes #1 my soul (no groveling or begging now) #2 the lives of my loved ones (their souls are their own responsibility, although I wish them luck etc) #3 see #2 in regards to neighbors and #4 see #2 in regards to countrymen and #5 see #2 in regards to our allies I made a choice based on risks... it was too risky for me NOT to max out credit, y'see if beans are .30 cents a can now and 1 buck later, even if I sell 1/3 of my suplies, I can #1 feed others (a valuable service, considering I could probably get $50 per can, but i'm not greedy) and #2 pay off visa if things "get back to normal" and if they don't? well, then those customers will have been spared the indignity of begging and I will have 30,000 worth of extra TP... pretty much a win-win right? (unless nothing happens, and i get stuck with all that debt and runied credit, but I made the choice early on to roll my dice with y2k, we'll see whether I was right or 99% of humanity was right, Ii'm not worried about looking like a moron (as I'm sure you secretly think I am) but are you? PS and as far as the neighborhood loser goes, I fully expect him to do that, and I have prepared accordingly, in fact i would do the same in his place, the difference is #1 he was warned and #2 he better get used to burnt food, I am a believer in the scorched earth policy. and no, it's not a pleasant thought, but it didn't stop me in 98 and it won't stop me now. as far as my soul vs my bell goes, don't worry, i don't think i'll be tasting ashes next year.. alive or no.

-- jeremiah (tm@silliness.com), October 27, 1999.

Jeremiah'

Don't get me wrong. I didn't say it was easy to prepare for the ones we love when funds are limited or non-existant. I cannot prepare the way that I want, and believe me, the temptation to run my credit cards to their limit has been very appealing. All I'm saying is that it is morally (and legally) wrong to do what Les is intending to do.

The choices that remain open to me are:

1. Eliminate on all non-essential purchases.

2. Work more hours, or find a second income.

3. Pray that the problems in Y2K are minor.

or, 4. Hope that God miraculously provides for whatever I lack.

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), October 27, 1999.

TM why does the poly rant always revert to name calling. With-out substantive debate over individual issues those who visit this forum, Newbees come to mind, will-not be able to make the life saving choices they need to make. If this whole-thing ends up as bad as most people who use this forum think it will end -up, then it behooves one to do whats necessary. Pure and simple, you are of the poly camp and dont believe that this will be anything more then a Bump in the road. I have done well over 1000hrs study into the up and coming event, meticulously going over bios to verify. Others here have a higher education then I, and many more hours in. They have better preps then I, and are taking action in areas I wish I to could be involed with. Bottom line, if the banking community knows something that there not telling a simpleton as my-self, as to why standard remediation formulary does-not apply to them, then there the ones who are at fault. To many systems, to much code, to much bad data, that will seamlessly pass back threw the system, and if it dosent pass back that means you have blocked out vitale info. Either way dead in the water. My choice is to hold on to my credit worthy-ness today, in hand. If there telling the truth, and we still have the banking system we have today, next year I will continue doing what I have always done. Pay my bills...---...

-- Les (yoyo@tolate.com), October 27, 1999.

Les,

I only HOPE for a Bump In The Road because my financial condition does not allow me to prep to the extent that I would want. I am doing what I can with limited means, but I am in agreement with you that it may get a whole lot worse than I've been able to prepare for. As such, I will enter the new year with some amount of trepidation...not knowing if I've prepared well enough to survive severe problems. I can only trust that my faith in God's provision will make up for what I lack.

You may call that foolish thinking or whatever you want, but I'm willing to take my chances. If I die, then I die.

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), October 27, 1999.

Les,

By the way...your last post reveals at least a willingness to pay your bills next year if your records remain intact. THAT"S THE RESPONSE I WAS LOOKING FOR. That changes things...now I can agree that you are taking a calculated risk (a huge one at that!). I hope for your sake that we don't experience long term deflation...you'll be trying to pay off those high rate cards in the midst of a possible job loss. Not good. I can see why you're hoping for a worst case scenario.

-- TM (mercier7@pdnt.com), October 27, 1999.

Not hoping for, TM...Planing for....Good Luck...---...

-- Les (yoyo@tolate.com), October 27, 1999.