In 2000, when I pay my $30 for tabs, because we will all still be here -- The sky will not fall -- If you are so intent in opposing I-695, I challenge you to calculate and pay your pre-I-695 rates next year.

That way, the fat and sassy Washington government will be able to waste more and more of our dollars with nary a thought.

-- Jim DeFord (jimdeford@home.com), October 26, 1999

Answers

no the sky will not fall but services will be trimmed.. gee maybe i can buy that newer car with my 149 and who cares if the EMT's are there when a wreak happens..

it is the cities and counties that will be hit with the funding reductions.. lost revenue means lost jobs.. and it all effect us..

vehicle tabs are to high but there is a better way to reduce this fee without busting services we all may need.. vote no on this issue.. then do your job as a citizen and apply pressure on our elected reps to make reasonable change...

-- Moonhunter (moonhunter47@yahoo.com), October 26, 1999.

I keep hearing all the anti-695 people saying there is a better way, but nobody has provided any suggestions or examples. Is there a better way??? I guess their silence and /or rhetoric speaks for itself.

IF there is a better way, it should include the elimination of the MVET and complete accountability of the legislators in spending OUR money. I-695 does all of that and more.

To all of you who have predicted drastic cuts in police, fire, medic one, etc... come back in a year and give us specific examples where these alleged cuts have harmed even one person.

-- just a guy (torijosh@yahoo.com), October 26, 1999.

I'm sure we all watched Town Meeting last night. It's amazing that our reps in Olympia are telling us if we will just give them another chance they'll get it right next time. They had almost 2 years to get this mess straightened out. What did they do? Sat there and hoped this problem would go away. Well it just got worse and now they're all crying about the problems it's going to cause and all the money and jobs that are going to be lost. If they were doing their jobs in the first place there would be no reason for this initiative. If they're so worried about all the jobs and monies that are going to be lost, then who's paying the $25,000 for their millinium party and where the hell's our invitation? Our tax money is paying for it! Now what tax are they taking that money out of?

-- Madjack#2 (Jas-Sas@webtv.net), October 26, 1999.

$25,000 for a Millinum Party? Where is this and when does it take place?

-- Bill Sheehan (wsheehan@billsheehan.com), October 26, 1999.

"$25,000 for a Millinum Party? Where is this and when does it take place? "

I thought it was $250,000

Ed - could fund an election with that

-- Ed (ed_bridges@yahoo.com), October 26, 1999.

To Moonhunter:

They tell you services will be trimmed. What needs to be trimmed is the fat! And guarantee that they can cut (Okay let's use the Anti figure of 7%) 7% in the fat in the government and STILL come out ahead and operate a successful and healthy government.

So...you gonna pay full price tags when 695 passes?

RE: the Millennium Party, whether it's $25K or $250K, they're both too much to pay....Especially since the party is a year early!

-Jim

-- Jim DeFord (jimdeford@home.com), October 26, 1999.

The point of taxes is that everyone pays a fair share, and sufficient funds are generated to do a job for us. If I pay full price, and you pay $30, neither objective is accomplished. A better plan: Vote NO.

-- dbvz (dbvz@wa.freei.net), October 26, 1999.

Yes, that's correct. And I totally agree that we all should pay our fair share. MVET is not my fair share and it's not your fair share either.

When our dear (ahem) legislators saw the momentum of 695 building, they could have shut it down easily by creating a special session and then revise it themselves before we voted.

I would have had some respect left for them, if they had done SOMETHING, but no...They just sit there claiming doom and gloom and how the whole state will go down the crapper when 695 passes.

They probably have some plan to tie up the issue in the courts anyway. Will be interesting to see what how these people handle I-695, because there may be a pile of incumbents losing their jobs over this also...

-Jim

-- Jim DeFord (jimdeford@home.com), October 26, 1999.

I'd like to point out that the legislature can use their emergency power. It is specified in the initiative it any "no on 695-ers" would bother to read it. The emergency can be in place for one year. Gee our Federal gov't skirts the actual LAW all the time by invoking its "emergency powers". You opposers, be comforted, when the sky falls, there is a net!!! Don't you feel so much better now??? Or is all this beyond your comprehension too?

-- Paula (eagleross@pioneernet.net), October 27, 1999.

I always knew that Tim Eyman was the natural disaster for which we saved funds for over a decade. :-)

By the way, the cuts have *already* harmed people. King County Metro's transit planners have suspended work on their planned bus route improvements for June next year, and instead are hard at work figuring out how to undo the work of the last 6 years if I-695 passes and their budget is cut by 30%. The route improvements that they were working on did not consist of "new spending" - it was mostly reorganization of bus routes on the Eastside for greater cost- effectiveness. Even if I-695 fails, their work will have been delayed by at least 4 months. And, if I-695 passes, they will not be any more efficient than they were before; they are going to cut high- ridership routes just as much as low-ridership routes. I posted some more detail about this in the topic "I-695 Concern", along with a link to a web page where you can get some more on the story. You can expect that I-695 has disrupted other government agencies' work in the same way. Taxpayers, not public officials, are paying for the disruption.

Don't be fooled, Paula, it is a 30% cut, at least until a lot of fighting over funds in the legislature is completed. It's not as easy to reallocate public funds as it is to reallocate private funds. Many reports and newspaper editorials have made this clear, and even the chairman of the Republican party has admitted it.

-- Anirudh Sahni (anirudhsahni@hotmail.com), October 27, 1999.

to Anirudh: If the transit agencies want to keep their drivers employed and buses rolling, all they have to do is offer routes people want to use. Buses which travel non-stop for 15 miles or more will be quite popular.

I live in Gig Harbor, and there are no non-stop express buses to anywhere useful. If there was a non-stop express bus from Gig Harbor to Federal Way, it could allow folks to link up with a vanpool vans out of Gig Harbor. Likewise, if there were a non-stop bus from Gig Harbor to Bellevue, it would give lots of folks access to high paying jobs. Similar routes might appeal to folks living in Puyallup, Olympia, etc.

So, there's no reason for the transit folks to panic. All they have to do is offer a service people want.

-- Matthew M. Warren (mattinsky@msn.com), October 27, 1999.

to Anirudh: I am not fooled, I know corruption when I see it. The people have been duped into thinking gov't has to do everything. Why am I paying for services I am not using????? I don't care what you say, the legislature CAN with a vote (call yours to find out), reallocate PORK funding to "needed" services. Then, we'll get rid of special interest funding, non-sense art funding, etc., etc. If you want these services, pay for them and stop forcing the rest of us to be part of it.

When minimum wage goes up, food prices go up to pay for the minimum wage, burt my wages don't go up, therefore, I must BUDGET. Politicians need to learn that word and what it means. Give me a break.

-- Paula (eagleross@pioneernet.net), October 27, 1999.

Go Paula Go!! :)

Down south here in Vancouver, it is such a different battle for the Anti-695'ers, though they are few. There are some similar issues, but mostly because we (Vancouver) are (Portland) Oregon's neighbor, we have a lot of cheater's here.

Paula, you are paying several state police officers to enforce the tab-crime we have here in Vancouver.

Just ONE more reason to vote YES!

-Jim

-- Jim DeFord (jimdeford@home.com), October 27, 1999.

I get it now.

The Government is made of people who are Bad, Greedy and Selfish. I know that they are because they're called Politicians.

They use everyone's money to buy other people things that they like instead of buying us things that we like.

If we give them less money, they will stop buying the things that they like, and buy us the things that we like instead.

I know they won't stop buying us the things that we like, because they are Kind, Generous and Self-Sacrificing, and care about us.

-- Joe Campbell (joecampbell76@hotmail.com), October 28, 1999.

No, I want to give them NO money and they can't buy ANYTHING. Read the constitutions. Even fed income tax is illegal they way they are doing it. It must be in proportion to the census and to pay for or (repay for) loans for LEGITIMATE war, etc., OF AMERICAN INTERESTS, I.E. OUR LAND.

Look, we would not be having this conversation if spew-a-ticians had been acting in a constitutional manner. No where does it say that they are to be spending our money on so much. Tentacles are everywhere. Communities used to build their own roads and schools and help their less fortunate neighbors. We don't have the oppportunity to do that now, because the gov't is handling it and we have to work even harder just to pay for committees and administration.

Why is leaving me and my money alone such a hard task for you? If you want all these socialist (and that's what they are) programs, pay for them!!!! Stop forcing the rest of us to join in to make your life so much better. Why is it okay for you to force me to pay for your comfort, but a SIN for me to keep my money to pay for my own comfort the way "I" see fit. But again, socialism doesn't work unless ALL contibute.

Want to see some waste? Go visit the 7 million dollar elevator at http://www.ofm.wa.gov/budget99/capital/capagy.htm

You want a reason to vote yes, go there.

-- Paula Gannett (eagleross@pioneernet.net), October 29, 1999.

Paula wrote, "No, I want to give them NO money and they can't buy ANYTHING. Read the constitutions. Even fed income tax is illegal they way they are doing it. It must be in proportion to the census and to pay for or (repay for) loans for LEGITIMATE war, etc., OF AMERICAN INTERESTS, I.E. OUR LAND."

Like I said, you sound like an anarchist. If the income tax were really illegal, take them to court. Others have tried and failed, but who knows? You may have the arguement to win.

You note that communities used to build their own roads? The STATE is a community, and the highways are our roads! Do you really expect North Bend to build and maintain that portion of I-90 passing through? Who would build and maintain that portion between Moses Lake and Vantage? You want that to be a toll road? The only way to keep your money is to move away from civilization, because a civilized society has a price.

-- dbvz (dbvz@wa.freei.net), October 29, 1999.

Paula, I see in your remark about "communities" that you actually *are* interested in contributing some of your money to help others. (That's actually the impression I'm getting about a number of the pro- 695ers -- they're not acting out of pure selfishness. Many of them have said that they wouldn't mind paying $180 instead of $30 if they felt that the money was being well spent.) But you want to be closer to the decisions about how the money is spent. You're angry about being forced to pay an expensive bunch of people who are making expensive decisions that aren't close to your intentions. Who wouldn't be angry?

But the place to direct your anger then is to attack the *system*, and improve the way it operates; not to attack other members of the public.

Somebody has led you to believe that this initiative attacks the system and gives you more power. That's an attractive thing to believe. But does the initiative really do that for you? It does increase your ability to limit the *amount* of public money that is spent, but it does nothing to make sure that the money will get spent the way you want it. A 30% funding cut for transit isn't going to make the people who saved the money get together and fund an alternate bus system. Transit will still be designed by a slow- moving committee; in fact, it will get even slower and less responsive to the public when it has less funding and less staff. I know this, based on my experience trying to get them to do something for me this summer (I'll post more about it later). The only people who will be "punished" are the people who ride buses, and the people who drive on the roads that will become more congested.

To cut transit funding by 30% is easy. To improve the system is much harder, and will take much longer, but it is a much more worthwhile target for your anger.

BTW, I looked at the web page you mentioned, but couldn't find the $7 M elevator.

-- Anirudh Sahni (anirudhsahni@hotmail.com), October 29, 1999.

-- Paula Gannett (eagleross@pioneernet.net)wrote " No, I want to give them NO money and they can't buy ANYTHING. Read the constitutions. With writing like that I can see why you feel the government cheated you. Why don't you move to a country that has no real government, or one that the rich pay no taxes in. The third world and the Balkans are good places to start.

-- (asbestos@rocketmail.com), October 30, 1999.

Anirudh Sahni

"BTW, I looked at the web page you mentioned, but couldn't find the $7 M elevator"

The info about the Elevator is at this site

http://www.ofm.wa.gov/budget99/capital/360detl.htm

Health Sciences Center BB Tower Elevators Funds for adding a fourth elevator to the building

Prior Biennium 699,499

Current Biennium 143,849

Reappropriations 93,100

Appropriations 6,182,586

Future Cost

Total Cost 7,119,034

Phase Start Date / End Date Phase Cost

Predesign 06-01-96 / 01-01-97 192,750

Design 03-01-97 / 09-01-00 860,500

Construction 10-01-00 / 05-01-02 4,751,050

Other 05-01-02 / 05-06-02 378,286

Funds: State Building Construction Account  State

Total Cost 7,119,034

You can also find the other totals here, but it takes a little digging. I found this the other day, then couldn't find it till this morning.

Section B: Agency Detail

http://www.ofm.wa.gov/budget99/capital/capagy.htm

Ed - just the facts mam, just the facts

-- Ed (ed_brigdes@yahoo.com), October 30, 1999.