Talk about vehicular snobbery. : LUSENET : Xeney : One Thread

What gets to you? Personalized plates, big honkin' SUVs hogging the road, or middle aged men in sports cars they don't know how to drive? Seen any good examples lately?

I know that some of our amusement can be boiled down to simple envy; I for one would love to drive a Z3. (But where would I put the dog?) I learned to drive in an old Mercedes so I rarely make fun of them unless they're being driven by an idiot -- the one I was driving was 13 years old at the time, but it's still the best car I've ever driven. If I could afford one and didn't have more important things to spend my money on, I'd probably drive one now.

But a Z3 you can't even keep on the road, or a Suburban that holds more crap than you can possibly fit in your condo ... well, that's just silly.

-- Anonymous, October 25, 1999


What's up with those Cadillac and Mercedes SUVs? Are people taking these things four-wheeling, slogging through muddy streams to get to the cabin? I don't think so...

Also, somebody mentioned something the other day: as upset as people are getting about how dangerous SUVs are, at least most of them are new, in good condition, and being driven by adults. Ten years from now, they're going to be old, in bad condition, and driven by 16-year-olds, a really frightening combination, if you ask me.

-- Anonymous, October 25, 1999

I have no amusement and no envy related to cars. I pretty much hate all of them and think they should be banned from the City limits. That goes for bikes too, and scooters and motorcycles, espexcially the big noisy ones that set off off the damn car alarms when they go up the street.

Bike riders are as dangerous as drivers here. I joke to my husband that we should get the domain name, as in *pedestrian* , and rant and rave online as much as the law-ignoring, dangerous driving "critical mass" geeks do, but I figure the name has probably already been taken and by some bicycle geeks who mean "pedal" when they say "ped."

-- Anonymous, October 25, 1999

Three words: Sport, utility, vehicles. I would like to design a big clip-on vision blocker to fit the roof of smaller vehicles, so that the SUV crowd can't see the road ahead either.

-- Anonymous, October 25, 1999

As the spouse of an owner of a Mercedes SUV, a former owner of a Lexus SUV and the current owner of a Dodge Durango SUV (purchased solely because it'll hold more kids than the Cadillac, Lexus or Mercedes SUVs) I can explain them easily.

Prestige, luxury, power and 50 car elitist bonus points.

Seriously, we have to have either SUVs or minivans (gasp) to fit all of our family in our vehicles. (Actually, all of us can't fit in my better half's Mercedes, but we don't use it when the whole family must travel, it's mainly just for his daily use.) When we drove regular old passenger cars, they were Mercedes and BMWs. We like luxury vehicles, and we can afford 'em, so why not?

They're as well made as their smaller counterparts by the same companies, they're really well-appointed, and they're fun to drive. If push came to shove, I could live in the Mercedes SUV for a few days - which I probably will the next time we all go camping. (I don't do tents.) I'm all for 'em.

Oh, to answer Beth's question, the thing that gets to me on the road is people who cannot bother to follow the basic rules of the road, to everyone else's detriment. Particularly galling are people who cannot bother to extend their *#&@)$ pinky finger and flick their damn turn signal lever. It takes no effort, so why can't people do it? Is it really that much of a mental strain? I don't care if you drive a Bentley or a '79 puke green Gremlin, I'm going to consider you an idiot if you can't signal your turns.

-- Anonymous, October 25, 1999

I fucking hate SUVs. Gas hogs, can't see over 'em (and what's with all these tinted windows?), can't park next to them. I have keyed a few in my day.

Oh but it's for the CHILDREN. They're SAFER. Uh huh.

I absolutely fucking DESPISE Mercedes and Cadillac SUVs. All that plus snobbery over a label.

A Mercedes sports car is cool. I'd love to have one. A Mercedes SUV is outlandish.

-- Anonymous, October 25, 1999

As another owner of a SUV (not the Mercedes/Lexus class, just a Jeep) I had to respond to this one. There are several reasons my SO and I bought the jeep (even though, yes, they can eat a tank full of gas in nothing flat, and their headlights are positioned so they shine directly into the rear-view mirror of anything that is not a truck or a SUV). First, I used to drive a Honda Prelude (which I loved) but have you ever tried to go out to dinner with 4 people in a Prelude? Not exactly comfortable. I didn't know that you weren't supposed to have to hunch in the back seat (if you could call it a back seat) while going out to dinner until we got the Jeep. And yes, the women by default got the backseat because the men couldn't even fit back there. Or we had to take 2 cars every where we went, which is a drag.

Second, we are the proud parents of two Labrador Retrievers (and two cats, but they prefer to stay home). And two labs in a Honda for any length of time is not fun. Even they were cramped.

Third, we are the camping (yes, in tents), boating and fishing type of people. Very hard to pull a boat packed with camping gear with a Honda. Or we'd have to take my SO's truck, with a bench seat, and 2 people with 2 labradors in the front seat of a truck is no picnic either. And no, to the people thinking the dogs can go in the back, these couch potatos would be devastated if they were not in the front. Yes, we created monsters. Ok, well, I created monsters. Not only that but I don't think it's safe for dogs to be in the back of trucks. Personal opinion. And fourth, most SUVs are sooo comfortable! It's comfort, luxury, power, space, and the feel of safety all in one vehicle, so why not?

What irritates me on the road- cars (or trucks, SUVs, motorhomes, etc, I don't care what they drive) in the fast lane, with a mile of space in front of them, forty cars stacked behind them, and they don't pull into the next lane over to let people by them. What do these people think they are doing? Leading a parade? And I find it amazing that there are people out there who still have not heard that most of the highways in California are 65 mph now. Even after they pass the speed limit signs while driving 55 mph, leading a parade, they still don't believe it! Drives me nuts.

-- Anonymous, October 25, 1999

Well, as most of you already know, Jeremy and I are looking at SUVs ... although we're looking at small ones. We also like to camp, and our little two seater truck is just not going to work for taking the dog camping. (Putting the dog in the back of the truck is illegal in California unless the dog is tethered, I think, or in a camper shell. I don't think it's very safe either way.) I need a truck-like vehicle for my gardening stuff, also.

However, we do not need a Suburban or even an Explorer size vehicle, and few people who buy cars that big do need them. I refuse to buy a car that isn't as least as fuel efficient as my current car. I would not commute in an SUV, either, because there is no SUV that gets what I would consider to be acceptable commuting gas mileage.

There are small SUVs now that get 25-29 miles per gallon, which isn't stellar (and not good enough for a daily commute, if you ask me, from an environmental perspective) but it's not terrible. The Honda CRV gets 25 mpg, the KIA Sportage gets 23, the Toyota RAV4 gets 25. (I don't like any of those cars, but they'd all do for a young person without kids who wanted to take the car to the mountains now and then. (Except maybe the CRV -- that's pretty much a Mom car, at least if the mom in question has young kids.)

One thing about the Mercedes SUVs is that they actually aren't very big. I park near one, and it's a lot easier to see around than the CRV. But the people I know who drive them use them as daily commuters, and at 19 miles per gallon, they should be ashamed of themselves.

I think Jeremy has convinced me that a Subaru Forester would be a good car for us -- it's technically an SUV, but it's only moderately bigger than the Subaru wagons, and it gets 27 miles per gallon -- not good enough for a daily commuter, but fine for taking camping and hauling around crap from the nursery and hardware store. It has better ground clearance than the wagons, and it's ... well, it's not a station wagon. I'm a child of the 70s, and these things matter to me.

I thought it was too big, but I changed my mind when I saw one from my parents' van. From the van, I was looking down on the Forester, and I thought it was a wagon. I think it will be a good car for us, and since it will rarely be driven except on weekends, you all won't have to worry about trying to see around me, at least not very often.

-- Anonymous, October 25, 1999

While I can understand misgivings about SUVs from a gas mileage perspective, I really don't understand the shrill, sanctimonious hatred some people express on this issue. An honest difference of opinion is understandable, but the blind rage I witness sometimes is truly baffling. It's the sort of hatred one would think would be reserved for those who juggle vials of sarin on crowded grammar-school playgrounds.

I drive an SUV for three reasons. First, I am a taller-than-average guy, and I need the extra room. Second, I was in a serious accident last year - I was hit from the side by a drunk driver, and would have been crushed to a pulp had I been driving a smaller, more politically correct automobile. That bears repeating for those who have been conditioned to think that SUVs are somehow dangerous: I would be dead, D-E-A-D dead. Despite having to have half the body of my SUV replaced, I walked away unscathed - but for a lingering terror of riding in or driving small cars. Third, I like it - I like how comfortable it is, how well I can see around me, how well it handles in traffic and in parking lots, the smell of the leather interior, all of it. It is the car I choose to drive because I want to, whether or not someone else thinks that I need one.

I looked at the Forester, for mileage and other issues, but it struck me as cheaply made and unsettlingly wobbly. Also, Subaru did not have the interior and color options I wanted. It all came down to what I wanted more: a car I liked and wanted and was willing to pay for, or a car that would make a few angry busybodies marginally less angry while sacrificing my safety and enjoyment.

As for what offends me on cars, that would have to be the in-your-face fundamentalist Christian and liberal extremist bumper stickers. Or those which ceaselessly tell me, despite the omnipresent evidence to the contrary, how goshdarn lucky I am to live in Large Southern City.

-- Anonymous, October 25, 1999

My shrill hatred for SUVs developed after too many times of being blinded by headlights shining into my mirror, no matter how I adjust it; not being able to see over or around the car ahead of me; barely being able to get out of the SUV in the space next to mine that's completely filling the space.

Yes, pickup trucks do those annoying things too. But there aren't nearly as many of them on the highways I travel.

I also have some concern for the future of our planet. Squandering fuel on low MPG vehicles is stupid and selfish, and makes me angry.

I'm 6' and drive a Honda Civic, or did until my spouse and I moved. Now he gets the Honda for his long commute and I drive his Ford truck when I don't take the bus.

-- Anonymous, October 26, 1999

I lean toward your camp, Lizzie, even though we are looking at purchasing a minor monstrosity ourselves. As far as daily commuting goes, it's time for people (particularly people who can AFFORD to do so) to put up with a little personal inconvenience for the sake of the air that you and your neighbors get to breathe. If you don't need to live two hours away from where you work, then don't. If you don't need a car that can haul six kids and pony, then do the rest of the planet a favor and don't drive one. (Some people do need a big car. Some people don't.) If you can afford a monster SUV, then you can also afford something that gets more than 19 miles per gallon.

I know I'm sounding really self-righteous and probably hypocritical, but geez louise. I don't enjoy walking back and forth to work four times a day; I have a car and a parking space and it would take me two minutes to drive there, whereas it's a half hour to walk. And a harrowing half hour, at that, thanks to commuting drivers -- although the sports cars are far worse than SUVs from a pedestrian perspective. I'd be safer in a giant SUV, but then I'd be safer in a tank, too -- that doesn't mean that driving one through the city would be a nice thing to do to my neighbors, and I doubt they'd care that I was doing it for my own safety.

I know Jeremy doesn't enjoy riding his bike back and forth at night through a bad neighborhood or in the rain, or waiting a half hour for Sacramento's useless public transportation system to catch up with him. We can afford the gas, we have the ability to turn an annoying daily commute into a quick trip. But when we do that, we feel like lazy, wasteful people who are making our neighbors choke on our smog just because we can afford to. If you're commuting in an expensive 19 mpg gallon car just because it's a little easier on your butt than a Honda, then maybe you should feel a little wasteful, too.

-- Anonymous, October 26, 1999

This is one I can go on about for hours and will try not to... I'm looking to replace my current car (a 1986 Toyota Corolla with 190K miles and an array of semi-terminal engine problems) and have several conflicting sets of data to lead me to my choice. These include:

*I live close to work, but (a) work weird hours and (b) a car is required for work (I transport clients and shop for food.) So I have to drive a car through downtown. A short commute. For work, I need four seats (to transport clients) and reasonable cargo space (to transport food.)

*I make a lot of short hops in inner-city. A big vehicle is unwieldy for such things, and I would rather have something more fuel-efficient for city travel. The Toyota is admirable for such things, despite its age: it still gets around 30 MPG despite its many frailties.

*I transport big things on a fairly regular basis. Whether it's band equipment for a show (and UBERKUNST's band equipment occasionally necessitates the rental of vans or U-Hauls, due to our hideous stage setups) or a craft fair/flea market (carrying a couple tables, stock, and sometimes camping gear for Renfair type events) I need to hold big things often enough where another Corolla sized car is not a good choice.

So, as frightening as it may sound, I'm planning on getting a small station wagon. Depending on what kind of deal I can get, I'm looking for (in order of preference) a Volvo, Subaru or Toyota wagon of relatively recent vintage. Small wagons seem like a good compromise: my bandmates want me to get a big ol' van or a pickup so we can carry band gear, but I don't want to have to commute in it. A minivan or SUV isn't even a feasible option--first off, I don't want to PAY for the sonofabitch. I drove my father-in-law's giant Dodge pickup while on vacation, and I'd hate to have to maneuver something that big on a full-time basis. But a small wagon gets decent mileage, they're unpopular so they're cheap, and it's big enough to hold a table without adjusting the seat so far forward that the steering wheel lodges in my solar plexus.

-- Anonymous, October 26, 1999

My apologies, Lizzie, I didn't intend for my earlier post to sound like a personal attack. I was referring to the far more shrill and irrational screeds I have seen on this subject elsewhere (to which I was referring with the 'juggling sarin' comment).

I would gladly bike or walk to work if it were safe to live within biking or walking distance of my office. I need the exercise and would happily pocket the gas money saved (SUV or otherwise). Unfortunately, that is not an option, and even if I could live nearby the climate would preclude it for nine months of the year.

What tweaks me about the extreme opinions I see on the SUV issue is that the excessive contempt for SUVs is in itself a form of 'vehicular snobbery' - a morally superior attitude directed at the behavior of others - and usually comes from people who otherwise regard equality, tolerance, and choice as the highest of values.

-- Anonymous, October 26, 1999

Not to be a shrill SUV owner, but every claim that SUV owners make about their safety and size are legitimate.

My husband flipped in his car. If it weren't for the fact that the car flipped 360 degrees instead of just onto its roof, he would've been killed - the damage to the roof from the flip itself would've killed him had he not reflexively leaned over to the side, putting his body down across the passenger seat.

I was T-boned in a Jeep Grand Wagoneer (by a 19 year old w/a .25 BAR, driving a Firebird) and the thing was just about destroyed. He didn't go underneath, he just completely crumpled the entire rear of the driver's side like a tin can. Had any of my kids been in their car seats that night, they would've been dead.

Meanwhile, I have personally witnessed similar accidents to both my husbands' and mine with the SUVs that we now drive, and in both instances, not only was there little collateral damage to the vehicles, the occupants were able to walk away without serious injury. This includes the driver of the Cadillac (or perhaps Oldsmobile) SUV who flipped on the interstate last Saturday while towing a boat, which *landed on top of the overturned SUV*. Once he figured out how to get his seat belt off, he was able to get out through his window. That could not have happened in a lesser vehicle.

No, they don't get great gas mileage, but it isn't terrible, depending on which you drive and how you drive. In use, I've found that my SUV only gets about 5 mpg lower gas mileage than my brother's Nissan Sentra. (22/27 mpg, city commuter driving, which I do little of.) (In comparison, the minivan I had before the SUV got about 24 mpg.)

Most importantly, there's no way to fit five kids into a Sentra, or a Camry, or a Taurus or anything other than the SUV I drive or a minivan. Minivans have a lot of passenger space, but not a lot of storage space, especially when they're full of people. I regularly have a need for both, therefore, I drive a SUV, unapologetically and with utter disdain for people who assume that I do so for "lazy" convenience or for snobbery.

Some of you may want to consider that SUV drivers may have much different reasons for their vehicle purchase than you may assume.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 1999

I know several people have already said this, but I don't think the problem many people have with SUV's is them being used at all, it is them being used when they aren't needed. If you have 5 kids, you need a large vehicle. If, however, you are commuting by yourself, using a huge SUV is, in fact, wasteful. It's a matter of circumstance.
And I hadn't heard that SUV's were supposed to be dangerous for those inside them, rather that they are more dangerous for other drivers. (i.e., if I had crashed into an SUV instead of a Toyota in my Hyundai Excel, I would have been more likely to have been injured, and more seriously.).
I don't have anything against SUV's, minivans, and huge pickups on their own, but I do get upset at people who don't seem to realize that they are driving a huge vehicle, and that it requires a somewhat different driving style than a small car. Like, for example, they may need to look a bit harder to see whether they are going to run somebody off the road by merging into them. Part of that is the car (at least, some cars make just about anybody drive like a spaz), but not all of it. I have to say the cars that annoy me are dark-coloured, shiny new sedans (generally Toyotas, but not necessarily), driven by 40-something men with cell phones up to their ears, driving 75 mph no matter what anybody else is doing, ignoring what is going on in front of them. That and Camaros.

-- Anonymous, October 27, 1999

Well, I have a Z3 with personalized plates so I'm jumping in here. I'm not a snob with my car, but since I did pay $40k for it and it's the most expensive vehicle I've owned, I am careful about where I park and things like that.

It's just damn fun to drive! The BMW engineering is awesome. This car will stop on a dime and never fishtail and will take the curves like nobody's business.

I don't have kids, I don't have a dog. It's just me with the top down on gorgeous sunny days and the music up loud. Hey, I see you in your SUV with your 4 kids and the soccer equipment in the back. Not my cup of tea, let's go to the lake.

If I need space, I still have my 1991 Subaru Legacy.

-- Anonymous, October 28, 1999

Disliking headlights in your eyes or the way a person drives is one thing.... Shrill hatred for any inanimate object is a really valid reason to seek professional help! I drive an SUV and a Jaguar (when it runs). I drive it because I live in a country where I have a choice of what automobile I want to drive. It's true, the SUV's don't get the gas mileage of say, a Honda Civic. But you can't pull a boat with a Honda Civic, and you can't carry very much in one either. And you can't get comfortable in a Honda Civic like you can an SUV. I drove those economy cars that sat low to the ground, felt every bump in the road, shifted gears in heavy traffic, and suffered with headlights in my eyes for years, too. It never caused me to hate any other type of vehicle and it certainly never caused me to deface anyone's property with a key. But it did influence me to test drive an SUV and buy one! So please, take a deep breath. Don't forget to exhale!

-- Anonymous, November 01, 1999

Yes, what really gets to me is people communting alone in SUVs or driving around downtown in them. You live where it snows or you actually have to drive offroad, it makes sense to drive one. I'd still wonder why someone chooses a Mercedes or Cadillac one.

There were some reports of some models tipping over more easily, and definitely reports of them being more damaging to other people's cars. Certainly they are less maneuverable, especially at high speeds. I too have been almost sideswiped by SUV drivers going over 80.

Another diarist just reported that her dad's street is closed off for sewer repair, and he saw somebody in an SUV drive over his lawn to get around. Instead of, like, turning around.

I think my Honda Civic is very comfortable.

-- Anonymous, November 02, 1999

...and definitely reports of them being more damaging to other people's cars.

Would that be more or less damaging than, say, someone with a key and a grudge?

-- Anonymous, November 02, 1999

Oh yes, laugh out loud, Duranki! Or the person with the shrill hatred of SUV's spying you in your SUV and running you off the road to stop the fossil fuel consumption and saving the planet!

This is the real danger, it seems. And this is no laughing matter.

-- Anonymous, November 02, 1999

I'm all for an SUV vs. little car civil war! I think the little cars will make up some points in maneuverability, and end up a fairly even match for those big ole SUVs. The little cars used to have the advantage of numbers, but not so much anymore. SUVs are much more readily adaptable to that Mad Max sort of warrior vehicle, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some little kamikaze Geo Metros out there. Loaded with expolsives, y'see. Don't count the little guys out; I can easily picture some little Midgety car dashing under a descending wall Indana Jones-style and saving the day. So I say we have the actual battles in Nevada... in both cities and desert, again to sort of balance the playing field. We can start choosing teams now. I get to be the referee. I don't promise to be nice, but I do promise to be fair.

No, actually I don't promise to be fair, either. Or coherent.

-- Anonymous, November 02, 1999

Ha. I was about to come in here and tell everyone to play nice, but I like Mr. Kipper's idea better. I just have one question, though: do pedestrians and cyclists get to sit on the sidelines and throw rocks? What about hand grenades?

Or maybe we can all get together and go after those people in the RV's. What's up with them, anyway?

-- Anonymous, November 03, 1999

Hey, as long as people aren't commuting in their RVs, they're fine by me. Most seem to sit in people's side yards until that once a year trip to see the grandkids, in my neighborhood at least.

Comparing damage by keying to the kind of damage a small car sustains iwhen rearended by an SUV is missing the point.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 1999

Oh please, Lizzie! Keying someone's vehicle because it's an SUV ranks right up there with the mentality of hating a race of people for their ancestry! And comparing intentional, malicious destruction to someone's property of which you have control to an amount of damage done by an accident in which there is no control is just plain ludicrous! You are entitled to your opinion and you are responsible for your actions. I may drive an SUV and I may drive my sedan. But I think I speak for the other SUV drivers in this forum as well; we will never be guilty of or arrested for "keying" someone's non-SUV.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 1999

Okay, let's get a grip. Keying someone's car isn't a good way to make a point about gas consumption, rude drivers, or dangerous vehicles, but it's hardly on a level with racism, okay? You're making a choice to drive a car that wastes fossil feuls, pollutes the air, and makes driving more dangerous for other people. You've pointed out that you have a choice to do that in this country. (I'm not sure you should; I'm not sure it should be legal to sell a car that gets less than 25 miles per gallon.) If you're making that choice, deal with the fact that some people aren't going to like it, because you're taking some choices away from them -- i.e., the choice to live in cities with smog-free air, the choice to drive in traffic in a small, feul efficient car and still be able to see around the SUV in the next lane, etc.

I'm not condoning anyone keying cars, but I really don't understand how some of you are failing to understand that the car you choose to drive affects other people. If you don't need a big car (and some people, like Dreama with all of her kids, do need big cars) or you don't need a big car to commute, then your neighbors have every right to see you as selfish if you choose to commute by yourself in a Chevy Suburban. Your price for lots of leg room and a nice view of the world is the contempt of anyone who cares about the planet. Deal with it.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 1999

Beth, I am not breaking the law by driving an SUV. There are laws against maliciously damaging someone's property. I don't always drive my SUV; I use mass transit for commuting. I know my actions affect others on this earth! I always recycle, throw litter in it's place, walk instead of drive and I RESPECT my neighbor, even when I don't agree with him/her.

To assume that all SUV owner's could not care less about the earth or the people living on the earth is absurd. I drive an SUV when I need it's functionality.

There is obviously a large group of people that do not like SUV's for a variety of reasons. But I am sure the number of people that don't like luxury cars is substantial, as well, for the same reasons. They are not illegal; they are not economical. Just because they are not economical doesn't give every economy car lover the justification to damage another's property.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 1999

Why are you so hung up on what's legal and what's illegal, Ola? Earlier you tried to compare the damage done by keying someone's car to the damage done to a small car when a large SUV crashes into it, and your conclusion was that the first was worse because it's illegal. Huh? There are plenty of legal activities that are rude, distructive, and/or dangerous.

As I said, I've never keyed a car and I don't condone it, but you'd better get used to the idea that people are going to form judgments about you based on what you choose to drive. That's their right, just like driving a big car is yours.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 1999

Beth, I am not a child and I know people form opinions about me with far less to go on than the car I drive. You have missed the point entirely. I never compared the damage of a key to the damage done in an accident. I compared the malicious damage of an act of agression to an accident.

I am not hung up on what is legal but I do my best to obey the laws and RESPECT my neighbor. Probably I am hung up on respect...

Why are you so hung up on pointing out my so-called shortcomings on other 's judgements?

-- Anonymous, November 03, 1999

Um, Ola, I'm not hung up on pointing out your shortcomings; I'm disagreeing with you -- and in a far less inflammatory fashion than you expressed your disagreement with Lizzie. There's no need to rush to the defensive as if you've been personally attacked.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 1999

OK, Beth...we agree that we disagree. And posting on this forum has been fun! Thanks!

-- Anonymous, November 03, 1999

When someone does something you don't like the answer is never to take justice into your own hands. The answer is to have the laws changed, if you can. This is the rules of the society we live in. As long as people live within the law we should respect their decisions as their own.

Next I suppose you'll be saying the people who bomb abortion clinics "have their reasons and we shouldn't be doing what they don't like if we don't want to suffer the consequences of their self-justified wrath."

Think about what you are saying.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 1999

A point of clarification here: As of yet, nobody except me has in any way encouraged or endorsed any illegal activity as a response to unpopular activity, unless you want to count Lizzie's admission to past indiscretion as an encouragement.

Another point: There is no person here whose individual use or disuse of any kind of vehicle has been specifically criticized. Everyone who has posted has had valid reasons for driving what they drive.

So what's the argument again?

-- Anonymous, November 03, 1999

So what's the argument again?

I think it was something to do with "vehicular snobbery".

But whether it was the snobbery of people who drive SUVs, or the snobbery of the people who hate them for driving SUVs, I forget.

Somewhere it got sidetracked into who decides who needs which vehicle for what.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 1999

Beth expressed what I was going to say extremely well.

-- Anonymous, November 04, 1999

we moved recently, and due to the loooong trip, my dad's car broke down completely. now, my brother and sister are living with us and so we need more space than a two-seater. we bought a minivan/SUV (some people just can't agree on what a Honda CRV really is ;P) so that i could bring my dad to work, my bro and sis to their schools, and go to work myself. i know that some people get mad when they see a person driving alone in an SUV, but i *will* be alone after i bring my family to their respective places...we cannot afford another "spare" car for single-person travel, so i'm sorry if some people will hate me if they see me travelling alone. if i didn't have the responsibilities i had, and if i didn't have to be the designated driver for my family, i would have chosen a smaller car. but i do have responsibilities. and i make sure not to be inconsiderate towards smaller cars (and pedestrians), whether i'm driving or parking. i just hope that people will give me the benefit of the doubt when they see me driving around...and not damage my car or hate me for the vehicle that i drive.

-- Anonymous, August 07, 2001

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