NO POLLYS ALLOWED. I have been working on physical security measures in my home just in case the "crime rate" "jumps a bit" next year. The police did the initial survey and were very helpful in the recommendations they made which I have already done. In my research, I have come across a product called CLEAR DEFENSE. It is a product that will possibly allow someone to break the glass in a window or door but once it is broken will prohibit entry. This product is a cold laminate and can be applied to different levels of thickness depending upon the need (i.e., terrorist bombs versus neighborhood thugs). Does anyone have any first-hand knowledge of this stuff or any feeling regarding a glass/polymer type of defense versus other options such as good old plywood over windows (in the event things are really bad)???? This stuff isn't cheap. Probably $500 for a sliding glass door and one window. Plus I am concerned that even though the glass may be shatterproof, the pinned windows can be pried out of place. Hence the expensive glass is in tact and lying on the ground.

-- tt (, October 23, 1999


How about a few signs that say 'gun owner: do not treaspass' written in big, bold, black crayon on cardboard posted here and there next to windows/doors.

Only half joking.

-- ..- (dit@dot.dash), October 23, 1999.

You might want to check out this web site:

-- shatter (, October 23, 1999.

first of all, if you have windows, you have a problem. Unless you want to invest in 1/2" thick Polycarbonate (brand names: Lexan, Hyzod, etc..) to make a "bulletproof"shield like at a currency exchange, anything you put on or over the windows can eventually be kicked in.

I would suggest shopping for some expanding metal gates for whatever size openings you want to protect. They're pretty hard to get through for the average perp. If you want to prohibit entry, this is a relatively inexpensive and reversible solution. I have some really cheapo ones on the windows of the garage I use, you can bust out the window with your hand, but you'd have a hard time getting past the metal bars, better to move on to the next house.

This summer I replaced all the basement windows with glass block. it helps, but anyone really determined could easily get in another way.

-- plonk! (, October 23, 1999.

Are all Tinfoils this naturally paranoid?

-- Y2K Pro (, October 23, 1999.


"Expanding metal gates" - I haven't seen or heard of these and I want to. Where did you find them? Where does one look? What do they look like (grill, solid, accordian??)

And the magic words - "relatively inexpensive" - ball park figure? This is a new concept to me (the gates) and I thought I'd heard about everything there was to protect windows. I need info - please tell.


-- Scat (, October 23, 1999.

shatter: Thanks for the web address. Nice butt on the Shatterguard technician!

-- Pearlie Sweetcake (, October 23, 1999.

Razor blades -- the straight type used in scrapers -- nailed along the bottom of the window frame pointing up.

That should slow down any perp who decides to climb in after kicking out the glass.

-- Ron Schwarz (, October 23, 1999.

3M has a product for windows mainly for hurricane protection. The advertising video shows a man with a sledge hammer attempting to break in.

I just had it installed this week. It will restrick any unwelcome visitors to using the doors or at least provide lots of warning Cost is about $7 or $8 a square foot. Dual purpose storm protection and breakin protection. Worth it to me.

-- Mr. Pinochle (, October 23, 1999.

there are sort of 2 styles: there is an "adjustable" bar like device you can get to cover a window. these range in price from $14 to $50 you can get these at most "Home Centers" like Home Depot. If you live in an urban area, you should be able to find pre-made EXPANDING GATES there as well. These are accordian-style and made from steel u-channel. A standard door size might cost $60-$100. A window might cost $50. If you can read PDF files, here is a link to a page in the McMaster Carr catalog that has expanding metal gates for doors and windows. if you can't go to the link, check your yellow pages for GATES or FENCING.


-- plonk! (, October 23, 1999.

OK if that catalog page doesn't load, go to the main page for McMaster Carr supply: and type in folding gates in the search box.

McMaster Carr Supply

-- plonk! (, October 23, 1999.

that's it, I'm done trying to make links today.

-- plonk! (, October 23, 1999.

Being a single mom I put out a question on home security subject a few months ago where many male survivalist frequent. Thought I would pass along what one of them said.

They said don't put anything in view that shows you have extra defenses as the would be intruders would think there is something there to take.

One recommended that I put razor or barbed wire nailed to small two by fours in a tangle under each window inside the house. This would not stop entry but it would slow them down if they broke in until Annie can get her gun or water pistol filled with A/B and gas mask, whichever she chooses to use for self defense. I plan to put the wire under my windows as I do not want to draw attention.

An outside suggestion to keep gun fire from entering the house and making a smaller entry way available to the door that you can later defend better is building a retaining wall of concrete blocks filled with sand and make the top a planter. You could stair step it and truly make it look like a planter then you have defense and a smaller area to defend but no one suspects it as such.


-- Onebyone (, October 23, 1999.

tt .... Instead of box cutter razor blades in window sills , glazer points ( those triangle pieces used to hold glass in window ) hammered in just enough to make them hold, will create many cutting edges and are difficult to see. People (competition ?) keep stealing my signs that helped people find my party houses, bach in the late seventies; until I put the glazer points on the back where they grabed them to pull them down. NEVER lost another one ! Another posibility to keep people away, is to post quarentine signs a few days before Y2K and list highly contagous " hamoragic fever " or "Owner has flesh eating bacteria sickness" ; whatever . Eagle

-- Happy Hal (, October 23, 1999.

onebyone wrote>> "waterpistol filled with A\B..."

Sounds interesting, could you tell me what it means?

-- matt (, October 23, 1999.

I don't want to be accused of high crimes by a certain gov. agency. I will just suggest that, if you really want to find out, surf some survivalist sites and you will discover what is meant. I wasn't even seeking out this sort of thing and I found it so shouldn't be too hard. Just let me say, it is wicked stuff, I will only use if society fails and there is no longer an estabished authority; it is illegal to make and use now so be sure you want the consequences of your actions before using.

The system would not take my email so :-) so I had to put in a fake

-- lettin ya know (, October 23, 1999.

If anyone is interested in this type of product, it is available from my company. The cost is $3.59/sf email me for details on how to obtain a sample.

-- RM (, October 23, 1999.

My guess is "water pistol filled with acid or base".

These "home fortress" scenarios just don't make sense to me. Where there is a burglar or something like that you have one thing. Where you are talking about roving bands of marauders you have something totally different to deal with. If the situation were to devolve into roving bands of marauders it seems to me the best thing to do would be go primative early. Find a place far from the population centers and pray they don't have any interest in going there themselves.

I guess I am saying sacrifice "quality of life" for life itself. I just can't imagine actually believing I could secure a home or apartment in a population center. No matter what one does to secure such a fragile structure a determined team of three or four men can get in a take what they want. Perhaps if you are part of a team or 'militia' you could secure your neighbor hood from roving bands of thugs. But really, I secure my windows so they drop clorox and amonia mixed in a bottle down a vent on the roof. I plug the vents on the roof and they throw a molitov-cocktail on the roof, it burns a hole and in comes the poison gas mix.

If the rule of law breaks down to the place where you believe you must build a bullet-proof structure, you must build it the way the military builds them AND then you have to staff it.

This is not a stand and fight kind of problem. If the situation gets to the place where you believe your neighbors are going to turn against you, there is but one solution and for many that is too late, your secrecy must never be breached. You must be able to hide.

Is educating your neighbors a good idea? It is if you are totally confident that you can convince 100% of the people you talk with they should join in and keep the secret. Other than that the best approach is to tell them you are concerned and try to identify the ones that are making preps so that you have an idea who you might make team with later. It is really the teaming that occurs AFTER we see where all this is going that is going to make the local differences. Creating militias is probably a bad idea at this point because the Fed is going to be very interested in this sort of thing at this point in time. Later (assuming there are very serious problems) the Fed will be seeking out these teams to help rebuild and restructure. If you are fortunate and live in rural areas the voulnteer fire departments, rescue squads, and local police authorities are going to be populated with good people that you will want to know.

Again assuming there are very serious problems, when those problems become evident to the general population, strike! Get up GO OUT hook up with your neighboors and build neighborhood watch teams. Organize your neighbors and establish a liason with local authorities. It matters little where you stand on 'conspiracy' theories, the population IS going to go where the system wants for the most part. Anyone who stands against the system is going to get trampeled in that rush.

I like the signs idea. Rather than cardboard though get something made up in advance that looks like an official federal sign. Go with Typhoid east of the big muddy, go with Hanta virus west of the big muddy (or plague). Identify routes of approach and egress from your neighborhood and put up a couple of dozen signs around the area. It is a cheap bit of spoofing that might deter a percentage of people from wandering into the area.

If you are really serious about trying to defend a perimeter, traps, traps, and more traps. The danger with them is that the innocent can get caught in them and you are liable for those sorts of problems.

I just don't understand this sort of thinking at all. I really don't I do feel grave concern for trying to ensure the security and stability of the area where you live BUT I think if it gets so bad that you must put traps out in the yard, you have stayed too long where you are. There are lots of people quietly trolling down the inland waterway this year to warmer places. Those folks don't have a lot to say about their extended vacations.

It seems to me the 'hunker down and hold the fort' line of thinking stems from a basic delusion that it is possible to insulate oneself long enough to weather the storm no matter how bad it gets. It is a one way solution, no options. "Hold the fort or die."

Now I am not picking at anyone, or saying anyone is stupid. Far be it from me to criticize those who have done more prep and thinking on this than have I. I want to understand the reasoning behind this approach to the "possibilities".

Hopefully I made sense.

-- Michael Erskine (, October 23, 1999.

For Educational Use Only:

Cheap homemade pungi-boards work in the bushes around the windows too. Take a 1/2 thick 2 X 5 sq ft board, and drive 10p nails through in a random pattern. Sharpen the nailpoints with a dremel to needle-like perfection, and then set the board on the ground, nails up. cover lightly with brush. The sharpened nails will penetrate almost all normal footgear, and for those so inclined, can do what Charlie did back in the day. Smear the points with some nasty fecal matter. Gar-Ron-Teed to ruin anyone's day with a raging case of septic infection.

Another great toy is a section of 3/4in (roughly) pipe cut to 2 1/4 inches high, to hold a single #7shot shotgun shell. Get a cap for the end of the pipe, and screw a small nail/woodscrew throught the cap, leaving only approx 3/8ths on an inch of screw inside the pipe. seal the cap ono the pipe. insert the shell into the pipe. Squirt a _tiny_ seal of thin silicon around the pipe to keep water and moisture out, then bury in the ground 2in down. Cover lightly with brush or soil. Instant economic foot popper.

-- The Bad Things They (TaughtMe@School.Today), October 23, 1999.

Only Half Joking has it right. An invalid friend of mine was a real gun afficianado. He posted every face of his house with at least one sign not unlike the one Hlaf Joking described --prominently in an obvious window , with lurid letters to this effect: WARNING TO BURGLARS: The owner is a trained marksman. This is the gun with which you will be shot (photogrpah from magazine or instructional literature) in both knees first. This ist he ammo with which you will be shot: (flattend ammunition box taped to sign). This is my concealed weapons permit. (photocopy of permit with name blacked out). I always found that impressive.

-- Roch Steinbach (, October 23, 1999.

Bad Things --

The problem with your foot popper is it won't descriminate between you, your four year old, your dog, the sheriff when he responds to your call for help... etc.

Now I am not saying traps are inappropriate. Just that such discussions (those kind of details) are probably not really a good thing to publish more widely than they already are BECAUSE I DON'T WANT MY CHILD TO STEP ON ONE GOING INTO SCHOOL TOMORROW MORNING.

The details are out there anyone can find them so repeating them here is not a bad thing and it is truly your business... it just troubles me. Perhaps I am just being overly sensitive.

-- Michael Erskine (, October 23, 1999.

Personally I think the best approach is making your home look as if there is nothing there worth having. Someone months and months ago on this forum said that in WWII (he was a child in London at the time), they boarded up their windows and scattered broken glass around the house, making it look as if the house had *already* been ransacked. (The broken glass also serves as an auditory notice that someone is standing close enough to your house to have heard their feet crunching on it.) I also like the idea of putting a large prominent note on the door that says "JIM: IF YOU GET HERE, WE WENT TO FIND FOOD AND WATER. BAD VIRAL OUTBREAK. TRIED TO DISINFECT THE HOUSE."

You get the idea. Erskine: I would only use these ideas if Y2K is bad enough to cause general civil unrest. In that case, my 4 year old is not going to be outside to step on the glass, whatever, anyway.

For whoever didn't like the bunker mentality, the alternative is bugging out, and that is always going to make you more vulnerable, unless you bug out to somewhere more isolated NOW which my husband and I cannot afford to do. It has never been a practical solution for us, so we decided to defend our home to the best of our abilities.

-- preparing (, October 24, 1999.

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