Why must this forum be a pis*ing contest?greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
I'm curious about the fact that this forum always seems fall into a pissing contest between the "GI's" and the "DGI's" Each time something seemingly significant happens "GI's" post it as a portend of things to come. On the other hand, when predictions don't come to pass, "DGI's" post a nya nya nya nya nyaaaa nya, yoo-uu we--re wroo-ng! rebuttal. Whatever happens I hope to be ready for it. My question to the "DGI's" is this: Isn't your family worth a few hundred bucks of preperations? Regardless of your beliefs in y2k, wouldn't a little insurance be prudent? Even if it isn't the end, there will be shortages of everyday items. It doesn't make sense to jeopardize everything you have, in a silly attempt to prove you were "right".
-- Disgusted (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 20, 1999
Some people are just absolutely loaded down with piss.
-- no talking please (email@example.com), October 20, 1999.
I guess it "depends" on who you talk to.
-- (Bladder@control.problem), October 20, 1999.
Funny thing, I don't feel wet. Guess nobody pissed on me yet!
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 20, 1999.
I agree that the pissing contests shed all heat and no light on the subect. But there is a possibility that the predictions have so far not come to pass because the warnings were blown out of proportion. After all, there really were JAE bugs and FY bugs, and maybe a few 9's problems tossed in there too. While nobody can guarantee that predictions about next year's problems will or won't come true either, it should be clear that much of the concern expressed on this forum derives from the systematic tendency to select the worst-case information and apply worst-case interpretations.
This tendency doesn't mean that preparations are unwarranted. There is enough bad news to easily justify taking out insurance, in my opinion. Most preparations are just buying ahead, or getting things that are inherently useful anyway. I just don't believe that slicing off the far end of the probability curve and claiming it as a description of the whole is a suitable technique for making accurate predictions. As we've seen.
-- Flint (email@example.com), October 20, 1999.
Remember, the term "GI" is a label someone puts on themself when they think they understand what is going to happen. "DGI" is an insult the so-called "GI" calls another who thinks it wont be bad. I believe this is true, even though I am "prepped" for Y2k and should be called a "GI".
I am a so-called "GI" but I dont label others "DGI", because I cannot prove Y2k will be bad, I only think it might be a moderate problem. I base it on 20 years of exposure to computers, but not on anything tangible that I can show a non-believer.
So the labels really start the problem and then its the extremes in viewpoint that sets off the flame wars.
We have seen it recently with the moves in the equities and in the price of gold. The "goldbugs" have been beating their chest when gold shot up to 320+ per ounce but where are they now?. Many will argue, and quite rightly, gold belongs around 300-320 and was suppressed due to the BOE saying it was going to dump alot of it. But remove the promise/threat of dumping and gold pops back up to where it belongs. The "goldbugs" on this forum made a big stink of the rise and tried to show that they knew so much, but gold has leveled off and it got reallllll quiet around here, didnt it.
Now gold *MIGHT* pop up again in the future due to y2k or some other reason , but the noise over the past two weeks wasnt based on facts it was just chest beating and trying to talk up the POG.
The "GI's" come in and chatter like locusts when ANYTHING looks bad but if it ends up nothing the "DGI" has EVERY RIGHT to bitch-slap the "GI" because they REALLY WERE WRONG. How many times have the real doomers got it wrong. We still dont have panic or shortages or sell offs in the market, its almost November folks. The current correction can easily be passed off as a minor bear market because of insignificant negative mood, but we are not in a panic or a true downturn, it takes alot more before you can carve the date on this bulls headstone.
I have my food stores, my Kerosun heater and 9 five-gallon kero-cans as well as water filters, meds, etc. But I will listen to a so called "DGI's" opinion and appreciate it when its correct, because who am I to pretend I truly "GI" when I cant prove my opinions and have no past experience with this y2k-thing. If a so-called "DGI" doesnt want to store as much as a can of Dinty Moore, who am I to ridicule him, how can I prove I know what I am talking about when similiar dates like the GPS, the various accounting-rollovers and 9/9/99 did nothing.
It will remain a pissing-contest well past 1/1/2000 and the flames will fan in both directions. Everytime something looks bad the "GI" will come out screaming (sometimes myself included) and when it proves not to be bad the "DGI" will come out screaming (sometimes myself included).
We must remain flexible to "flip-flop" in our views as we roll into the zero-zero year because frankly none of us are sure of what the hell we are talking about and pretending we do accomplishes nothing but more flame wars.
Hope that all made sense, its was a rant from a rodent. :->
-- hamster (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 20, 1999.
It's not always that way. Sometimes I agree with the pollys, even Flint:
"After all, there really were JAE bugs and FY bugs, and maybe a few 9's problems tossed in there too"
However, please allow me one last shake, by saying that this is only the tip of the iceberg...
Tick... Tock... <:00=
-- Sysman (email@example.com), October 20, 1999.
It's not just this forum, it's every message base and chat room that has more than one person.
In 1986, I was an Information Provider for "the Largest BBS on the East Coast." There were about 20 of us volunteering our time in a trial by New England Telephone called "packet switching."
I can't remember one forum that didn't have at least one protagonist! They resorted to character attacks, p*ssing contests, threats, etc.
IMHO, it's the lack of physical contact in this online world. Imagine if everyone in this forum was in one big room face-to-face (scarier than any Y2K scenario?)
Granted it could necessitate Martial Law, but most of the get- togethers I've been to have been a lot calmer than the debates online.
Has there ever been a study on this? Is there a name for this phenomenon?
Jim23 from Boston CitiNet
-- Cant Say (NoWay@Chicken.com), October 20, 1999.
It's quite a comment on our 'civilized' condition, that it is simply assumed that anyone who's shown to be "wrong" ought to be reamed out verbally. That anyone who's shown to be "right" is justified in abusing those who weren't.
This strikes me as compelling evidence that many of us are dealing with fundamental insecurity and a profound lack of self-esteem, requiring this kind of ego boosting.
It also says something about the families who reared the children who became those adults.
-- Tom Carey (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 20, 1999.
If what you really want is something with the excitement level of a ladies'tea party, I can give you a few suggested sites. Otherwise...get real, my dear...
-- Psychotic (y2k@doom&gloom.com), October 20, 1999.
Personally, when I first started researching Y2K issues (never HEARD of Gary North, BTW, nor his site), I became quite fearful of the potential repercussions. So, I began to surf the net in search of more information, and posting questions on various fora.
As a "believer", I was called every vile name you can imagine, and accused of being "the cause of any problems", etc, etc.... (well, we've all been there, huh?)
Anyway, that experience taught me that these "DGI's" were more interested in attacking people who disagreed with them, than in discussing the ISSUES. It seemed that only the "GI's" cared enough to openly talk about the various possibilities of failures.
Since that time (over a year ago), my opinions have only strengthened regarding DGI's and their hate-filled spew. I have no desire to attempt further discussion with them, nor do I feel their Pollyanna beliefs to be founded in fact. And every time I read the CRAP they write to others, I find myself hoping that they're the FIRST to "go".
-- Dennis (email@example.com), October 20, 1999.
Well, let's have a big round of applause for "Mr. Tolerance" folks. He's deserved it.
-- Flint (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 20, 1999.
Tom Carey wrote: "...This strikes me as compelling evidence that many of us are dealing with fundamental insecurity and a profound lack of self-esteem, requiring this kind of ego boosting...."
Day after day, week after week, I experience interactions solidifying my opinion that the vast majority of adults ceased their emotional and intellectual development sometime in junior high school. I've observed that most "adults" behave in an adolescent and juvenile fashion unless forced to act otherwise by the rules of their workplace or the confines of a given social situation. Clear, analytical thinking is at a premium, while the cult of ignorance continues to flourish.
-- PKM (.@...), October 20, 1999.
Taking a leak, Flint? [VBG]
-- Old Git (email@example.com), October 20, 1999.
If the pollies were not here to stick it to the doomers, this place would be boring as hell AND YOU DOOMERS KNOW IT.
I sure wish the doomers would find another word to call the pollies other than "moron," though. That is really getting old.
-- (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 20, 1999.
-- Doom Zombie (email@example.com), October 20, 1999.
Hamster makes a good point. What kind of arrogance is it to divide the world into people who "get it" and people who "don't get it?" On the whole, I think the optimists are slightly better behaved... but I've seen both sides come unhinged.
Personally, I think the "in your face" rhetoric often used by the pessimists creates a backlash. Pessimists have expressed the fond desire to see "Pollies" die a slow and painful death. Frankly, I think these folks have serious mental health issues. But you can see the inevitable result of such hyperbolic writing. Am I really going to have "blood on my hands" because my outlook on Y2K was less than cataclysmic? Are my degrees in economics somehow invalid because I do not believe in the gold standard? How about the accusations of being a "banking shill" or "government operative?"
"Disgusted" creates a straw man in the original post. The serious pessimists on this forum have gone well beyond "a few hundred dollars" of preparations. Hell, I recommended preparations far more profound than a few hundred bucks.... getting debt free and saving six months living expenses. The middle-of-the-road folks get along fine. It's the extremists who make the debate difficult.
-- Ken Decker (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 20, 1999.
That's what makes it fun, watching the pollies shoot the messanger because they can't refute the message.
Really, seeing the denial in these folks keeps me from going back to it.
Why wait till TSHTF, when you can throw some into it here, right decker?
-- Bill (email@example.com), October 21, 1999.
Ah, our jackboots come into the light. Big Dodger and Dianne Squire, MBA. Who else is on the "home team?" No "heretics," I presume. (laughter)
Not too much of a stretch, is it, BD? I imagine the robes of SysOp fit nicely on you. Perhaps Dianne can tell you about your past lives? I can imagine you have worn the robes before... extracting confessions during the Inquisition perhaps? Keeping the common folk from the Scriptures while peddling indulgences? Playing the politics of imperialism, all in the name of the Holy Church?
I recognize you now, Brother Russell, with your sincere eyes and soft hands. Enjoy your church, BD... I just hope Dante was right.
On to lighter work... Lisa. Rattled? Hardly. I just hope you take a moment to thank the men and women who served so you could prattle on about how terrible America is. Like a spoiled child, you treat poorly the freedoms you never had to earn.
Of course, here I am talking about freedom in a private club. Close the windows, folks, and keep out the light.
-- Mr. Decker (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 28, 1999.
-- pot (email@example.com?), October 21, 1999.
"I sure wish the doomers would find another word to call the pollies other than "moron," though."
Where have you been? There is a new word, claimed by a new (few weeks) poster. It's:
Tick... Tock... <:)=
PS - what the heck, this thread has already gone to hell...
-- Sysman (firstname.lastname@example.org), October 21, 1999.