Has Anyone Considered That The Government Post-Y2K May Be As Inept As Pre-Y2K? For All Those Worrying About Marshall Law

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With so many concerned that martial law will infringe on their personal rights after January 1, I began to ponder the government's actual track record to date. What makes us think that a goverment known for its greedy, do-nothing, gridlocked Congress, and inept, bloated, red-taped tangled beaurocracy, is going to operate any more smoothly in the New Year? Are these people actually going to get their act together and turn the U.S. into a fascist state? Frankly, as a collective whole, I don't think they have the smarts or organizational skills.

If the grid does actually go down for more than 3 days, I think you'll see martial law declared in some cities, but not nationally. It'll be like L.A. during the Rodney King riots. The National Guard didn't even arrive until the festivities were mainly over. When we did see them, they were parked in their Humvees at the ocassional overpass, but they weren't a uniform presence. Plus, they were just sitting around doing nothing at all (probably not their fault, I'd heard that most were waiting for orders that never really came). So much for our spiffy mil

-- CD (CDOKeefe@aol.com), October 20, 1999


I shouldn't worry about that guy with those big guns fully loaded because he is lazy, stupid and corrupt?

-- Anonymous999 (Anonymous999@Anonymous999.xxx), October 20, 1999.

Ineptitude is pretty scary, CD.

It wasn't evil that killed 4 kids at Kent State, it was ineptitude. Ineptitude in the early 1980's, when DOD nixed the 4-digit year, got us into this fix. Pearl Harbor was attacked because our defense was laughable, not because the Japanese were incredibly clever or daring. WWI was a bloodbath because the commanders couldn't see that the rules had fundamentally changed.

I've done my time during VietNam, I've heard orders given by people who were never going to make Colonel, or E8. The idea that martial law would be administered by the inept is somehow not very comforting.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), October 20, 1999.

They are going to take away guns. They have metal detectors that can see through walls, from helicopters and planes. They're going to disarm the people. Not a good move according to history.

-- plastic guns? (what@safe.anything), October 20, 1999.

"They're going to disarm the people."

"They" can't. Every third household in the U.S. has at least one gun in it. "They" have long since abandoned the idea of confiscating all of them. Too expensive.

-- pry it from my (cold@dead.fingers), October 20, 1999.

Most things wear out, given enough use.

Like citizens' patience once lied to.


Proof of the lies is all it will take for American citizens to say, "We've had enough."

Our system works because people generally police themselves.


-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 20, 1999.

CD's post is an object lesson in how "unthinkable" martial law (the incipient phase of a totalitarian police state) is for most people.

A nation under the rule of it's military cuts through the "inept bureaucracy." The Congress ISN'T THERE to "get in the way." Things get done; or they don't. In either case, no one complains, or they are taken away. Patriotic praise of the regime is compulsory, and the only means of advancing oneself. As we see happening even now, any criticism of draconian police-state measures (such as the deployment of a standing army on domestic soil) is characterized as "anti-government" at best, or "terrorist hate speech." In a police state we WILL be punished for what we think, and write, and even whisper within earshot of our children, who will be trained to turn us in if they detect the tell-tale signs of "anti-government sentiment." The "war on drugs" was, and is,social engineering to this aim: we have proven that we are willing to punish cruelly anyone whom the government signals us to, without the least proportionality to their "crime." Guns WILL be confiscated in the wake of a fake "terrorist" bombing. "Enemies of the State" WILL be rounded up and executed without trial.

Like a market crash (a real crash, not a correction), this is outside the realm of most people's experience. But like a market crash, it is some that has happened with regularity. It is the defining political experience of our century. All it takes is the stimulus of an economic disaster, and more faked "terrorist" events like Oklahoma City. The same bankers that have backed all these dictatorships, are now our creditors. The same super-rich elite that cleaned up on the last market crash will clean up on this one. You MUST think outside of the cage, if you want to understand what is happening.

If the government doesn't want us to be thinking this way, they should stop acting as if this is fully what they intend to do. Congress should end the "state of emergency" which allows the Executive to make law; US troops should be banned from any "law enforcement" activity on US soil; Waco should be investigated and the murderers responsible brought to trial. And more. But it's not going to happen that way, from what I can see. We are observing a trend toward absolute State power, and an end to democracy (other than a pretence, such as the "voting" that took place in the Soviet Union, or in China today). We had all better prepare for this in whatever way our conscience dictates, because there isn't much time left.


-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 20, 1999.

10 Weeks

-- 10 Weeks (is all@we've.got), October 20, 1999.

With enough firepower, even the incompetent are impossible to ignore. Witness the fish-in-a-barrel bombing in Serbia by NATO.

-- (normally@ease.notnow), October 20, 1999.

You know, if it is only ineptitude we are battling, it would be a much simpler problem.

Take the media for example. The unbelievable lack of attention to matters critical to our freedoms is so outrageous it is tantamount to treason and treachery at it's highest levels.

Fix the media and we can unite to fix the problem of big government breaking all the rules.

We heard about the '98 million man march, but did we hear about the 1/2 million gathered in DC last year, made up of police officers, lawyers, doctors, military, and everyday working people? No we didn't. They were there to protest the many many issues we govie 'get its' already are aware of and are trying to wake the rest of you up about. If we have a pro-populace media, why are they not covering these events????

-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), October 20, 1999.

I fear the nuts who are EXPECTING society to collapse, more than a possibility of society collapsing.

The psychiatric profession should be a boom during 2000.

-- hamster (hamster@mycage.com), October 20, 1999.

Our system works because people generally police themselves.

Bingo! Not something that the 'external locus of control' folks, (ie., govts., 'educators', religions, and the like), want too many people to know though. Can't have too many of us know that. Nope, indeed. Power is not a means to an end, it is the end. So Mother Culture does her sweet singing, daily, hourly,... cradle-to-grave. Pretty nifty arrangement, eh wot?

Elementary my dear, Watson! ;-)

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), October 20, 1999.

Hamster said

>I fear the nuts who are EXPECTING society to collapse, more than a possibility of society collapsing.

I know we're all in a hurry here, but just read this slowly, and think about it for a moment. Is it not devoid of reason, as well as -more obviously- prudence, foresight and decency? "Fear the nuts." This poor sap's brain has absorbed the message, and is now dutifully excreting it. For my part, I "fear" there are millions like him. Jackboots we can deal with, but, as Rev. Moon once said, "WWIII will be the battle for men's minds."


ps, can you post a link to info on that march, OR? Thanks.

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 20, 1999.

Liberty, if you want to live in a fear-filled world where everything is planned out to end with the government somehow coming up with a master plan to turn us into slaves and somehow this benefits someone, please go on and enjoy yourself.

I see far too many people here and on other boards who are terrified when they see a white van in their neighborhood or if they get a "odd phone call" or some stock clerk at Costco asks them a question that spooks them. Contrails in the sky, metal-threads in our paper currency, executive orders, you name it, it never ends and it gets more complicated because the fearful feed off each other.

Its easy to see conspiracy in everything if you want to and there are tons of people who stay up all night trying to re-write history or change the meaning of rules and laws to be scary when read with just the right emphasis on the "dark side" of something. AM Radio has an abundance of "real news sources" accross the dial if you are willing to accept the "heard it from someone who knows someone who is someone" as proof.

Its always the conspiracy folks who think they fully understand everything about anything and the rest of the world is just sleep-walking. Its also sad to see how often these people are wrong and yet they still stick to their conspiracy theories by piling on more conspiracies to make up for the reason they were proved wrong.

-- hamster (hamster@mycage.com), October 20, 1999.

>They are going to take away guns. >They have metal detectors that >can see through walls, from >helicopters and planes.

That's silly. Such a detector would find the washer and dryer, the stove, the fridge, and the woodstove long before it spotted a gun. How do you tell the difference between my furnace and my gun safe from a plane?

At least *try* to post something plausible if you're going to go off the deep end.


-- Jeff Zurschmeide (zursch@cyberhighway.net), October 20, 1999.

CD has made a good point. Ineptitude is a more-likely cause of us losing our freedoms than is conspiracy. Why? Because the government mindset is institutionalized ineptitude.

Listen to what Justice Louis Brandeis had to say about it, years ago:

"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded ulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." Louis D. Brandeis (1856-1941)

Accusing government of conspiracy is giving it too much credit for intelligence and ability.

-- Norm Harrold (nharrold@tymewyse.com), October 20, 1999.

more tan an asserted atempt by our current government,I fear generals splitting off into schism warlords after serious infrastructure disruptions render our congress and executive powerless ineffable pusillanimous bureaucrats without papers to push.Throughout history soldiers work for soldiers pay,raping and looting.Ours are no differant,watc "the panama deception"and enjoy seeing good ol' us soldiers mutilating and murdering us photo journalists.The bottom line is marines follow orders.How long will 2 and 3 star generals recieve bullshit orders from civialian polititions before they decide to do things their way?

-- apokoliptik (apokoliptik@yahoo.com), October 20, 1999.

I am leery of stupidity, though, especially on a grand scale. Stupidity and ineptitude are children of ignorance, never far from its shadow.

The other child of ignorance is fear. Nothing keeps slaves in line (at every level of the system) better than fear. Fear is the oil of the police state. It is a weapon that will be wielded with crushing force by those who wish to be in (or remain in) control. Do not succumb if this ever happens.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), October 20, 1999.

Hamster, that was well said.

Whatever conspiracy and control the government, big banks, big busness and media have over our thoughts and actions, hey, it's happening now, and outside of disinformation to lull the busy and harried into complacency, it appears, with access to the internet, an inadequate conspiracy/control effort to anyone who wants to know.

Back in the days of government and Vietnam conspiracies, I started college with the shooting of Bobby Kennedy and finished with Watergate. There was a period when the campus had armed national guard on the roofs of campus buildings and an FBI office just outside the student union building. I felt more at risk by the students armed with window poles that periodicaly came to "liberate" our classes for various causes.

A friend had her elbow cracked by one of these liberators. She was asked to look through a large manual of pictures at the cammpus FBI office, to identify her attacker but when she saw a picture of her boyfriend eating a sandwich on the lawn outside the student union building (he had long hair...)she walked out.

Her boyfriend could have developed quite a complex with many scenerios of conspiracy by the college, FBI, draft......but he just stayed a student, graduated with his degree and math and today is remediating computers for Y2K.

Why compound the very real unknowns of Y2K with conspiracy theories about the military and the government? They both are barely functioning today. After the rollover, hey, no water, sewer, power, phones, or paychecks, you expect them to improve their functionality?

Blessings and peace to you.

With "reinventing government", mostly by downsizing, I suspect the federal goverment and the military have their hands full just operating as raggedly as they do.

The military is more concerned with multiple overseas threats they are underpowered to respond to, how to respond to internal terrorist activity compounding Y2K, possible multiple Y2K chemical industry civilian evacuations, riot and looting control, etc. They have their hands very full looking into the millineum.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), October 20, 1999.

Jeff Zurschmeide wrote:

"That's silly. Such a detector would find the washer and dryer, the stove, the fridge, and the woodstove long before it spotted a gun. How do you tell the difference between my furnace and my gun safe from a plane?

At least *try* to post something plausible if you're going to go off the deep end."

LOL! That was the funniest thing I've read all day! :-D

-- -- (--@--.--), October 20, 1999.

Liberty, it was on a radio program, but can be accessed through archives if you have real audio:


-- OR (orwelliator@biosys.net), October 20, 1999.



-- bbb (bbb@bbb.com), October 20, 1999.


LOL! Sorry about that. Guess I been readin' a might too many of them Louis L'Amour books.

-- CD (CDOKeefe@aol.com), October 20, 1999.

It's actually "Martial Law".


-- (nobody@nowhere.rrr), October 20, 1999.

I always thought it was Martial Law.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 20, 1999.

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