ALLRIGHT: I BROACHED THIS SUBJECT in reponse to another thread a couple weeks back, when one of my Gi comrades-in-arms was asking about ways to increase the BTU efficiency of her fireplace while reducing the intake of cool air from outside -- I guess it was. My answer at the time was a reference to the "Physicist's Fire" or the Texas Fire Frame, which I reported is claimed by the inventor -- a Ph.D. in physics -- to increase heat output up to 200%. I said no more becuase mine was on order, but IT ARRIVED TODAY and i tested it this evening, and the thing is a dynamo. AMAZING EASE AND EFFICIENCY so check out the website, www. texasfireframe.com

THe thing works as claimed, I lit a fire of two large maple logs and two small alder logs using a 3-4 pieces of paper -- in this case waxed milkcartons and such. Have you EVER successfully kindled a fire onto hardwood with no kindling, but only on 3 sheets of newspaper or cardboard? NEVER, I know .... But Prof. Cranberg claimed it would happen with the Texas FIre Frame and it worked!!! Thereafter, the maintenance of the fire was a BREEZE and then some. In fact, the thing virtually goes out to the woodshed and brings in the next load itself -- it's so much fun to watch.

The fire is beuatiful -- full of dozens - no scores of flickering yellow tongues, that don't sputter and piddle and wither away, but continually jet and dance and cavort, etc. etc. filled with poetry, and the arrangement of the logs is such that the heat of the fire is radiated outward from the hearth into the living area. It was intense, it was hot, it was the nicest fire I have ever had the pleasure of working -- but I barely had to work it, aside from sticking in the next log. Cranberg has written a 200 pp. manuscript on the physics and efficiency of home fireplaces v. woodstoves (at least valid against the pre-catalytic converter stoves of the '80's and '80's) and althogh I'm busy right now, I'll get back on her tonuight or tomorrow and offer a few excerpts. Suffice it to say, this guy knows whereof he speaks and invents -- never underestimate the power of that good old American ingenuity -- and if you want to turn your fireplace into a in-home furnace... or close to it ... this is the way to go. More later.

-- Roch Steinbach (rochsteinbach@excite.com), October 18, 1999

Answers

What a coincidence - just what I was asking in the next question! Helpful - thanks.

-- Lea (imagesun@asde.net), October 18, 1999.

Hi, guys,

I hate to be a wet blanket, so to speak, and I am interested in learning more about this gizmo. I tried to accesst the URL last time you posted, but it wasn't there. I'll try again, I suppose.

Oh. The reason I said I don't want to be a wet blanket is because I am going to tell you that, while a 200% increase is a fine increase, a fireplace is still going to be pretty inefficient, I suspect, even after a 200% increase. Can this thing work in conjunction with a set of doors?

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), October 18, 1999.

Hey, tried again, still no go. Says there is no DNS entry, whatever that means. Basically that the site doesn't work, I guess.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), October 18, 1999.

Hey Al, If you did a Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V from Roch's post, you have a space bar between www. and texasfireframe.com eliminate the space and the page works just fine.

http://www.texasfireframe.com/

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), October 19, 1999.

No mere coincidence, Lea: an instance of the Inverse Square Rule of simplifying for Y2K. IN other words,there has to be an upside to all this. It's Kizmet. Don't fight it, Lea. Buy one now. I let the first fire go out and lit it again tonight, this time using (from the trash) one envelope and two overdue notices from the library -- then when the envelope fell out of place, a theatre program: 1 sheet 8 x 11. A roaring fire in a few short minutes!!! I'm going to experiment and see just how little "kindling" one can use to get a fire going here. One walnutshell, maybe. The fire took right off anyway, with these 3 sheets of paper and NO INTERMEDIATE wood or paper kindling of any sort: just the paper mentioned and four logs: two full sized and two about the width of a woman's wrist. AMAZING. Cranberg says you can start wet wood -- and I am sure this will prove to be the case. Temps in the "hotbox" chamber of the fire reach 2000 degrees -- which starts to expain why a few envelopes are sufficient kindling, and why new logs placed in the chamber ignite instantly. ORDER TODAY, LEA!! ask questions tomorrow. $90 + 15 P&H. I bought the book too, for I think another $20. Fascinating book, very reassuring to see al the history, testing and dedication gone into this thing.

As I was studing and enjoying this again, I figured I'd have to report that this would be the ideal addition to your fireplace if you're not in a position financially to purchase and have an insert installed. So that answers Lea. It is really great. In short, the grate positions the logs so that the "convection energy" of your flames (flames are hot ON TOP right? not on the side) instead of shooting up the chimney, is captured on the underside of one of the logs and returned into the room as radiant energy from the embers created on the underside of the upper log. Etc. Sheesh. It works. Like I said, Cranberg claims a 200% increase in efficiency -- but as you said, that's still not much compared to a woodstove, especially a nefnagled one with catayltyic converter and all. SO efficiency rises from 10% for a standard fireplace arrangement, to 31% for the "Slot Fire" or Physicist's Fire. Not bad, if'n you don't want to spring $1K for an insert, plus installation. I don't.

I sat in front of the thing for a half hour as it took off. A s the fire burned, I had to move farther and farther back: 4 ft. 5 ft, 6 ft. CLear the room! Now another half-hour later, half a mile away, I am still sweltering from having absorbed more radiant heat energy than I need for an October evening. Phew. One of the things Cranberg discusses in the book is the difference between radiant heat energy and convection heat. What it seems we'er after for Y2K is heating PEOPLE not houses: jeating skin, not air. Y2K is not about keeping houses warm, but about keeping people warm: and this contraption will turn your fireplace into a MONSTER people-warmer, while it may be necessary to recognize that you won't be able to heat your whole house. Close a few doors and jsut heat your living room, perhaps. Dry your laundry by the fireplace in a few minutes, maybe. He also points out that the stuff about drawing in outdoor air is basically myth- information: propaganda from the early woodstove manufacturers. I'll post a few excerpt later if you're interested. The grate is "just" a grate, and so it does "work" with a glass door, Al. I have a glass door already in place on my fireplace, and the thing functions fine. It's not one of those semicircular tube assemblies that has to have air intake and output: it is just a simple but ingenious arrangement of wrought iron, devised by a man with a WHOLE LOT OF PHYSICS and decades spent in studying flames and fire. However, it relies primarily on the output of RADIANT HEAT energy, and so you glass door is going to intercept and absorb most of that. When I shut the doors to the fireplace much of the effect was lost. I am goihng to find a screen to fit my hearth.

FOR NOW, here is an excerpt from a Press Release Cranberg issued in 1984 (he's been at this a while and is really committed to the cause) undertaken by a private lab: The energy efficiencyis about thre times greater than for a conventional fire. HTe air draw is about one-third that for an air- tight wood stove (!!!), and is about 7% of the normal air-draw for a winterized home, representing an inappreciable energy load in the winter. Low flue gas temperature [600 F all the heat goes into your living space] reflect the negligblerisk of over-firing with a slot fire, and is consistent with the well-established safetry record of the Texas FIreframe grate. Measruements of carcinogens in teh flue gases of the slot fire gave a result of less than five parts per billion. A very low result is to be expected since the slot fire operates at a uniform temperature of about 2000 F, whyich assures fule combustion of the fuel.

AND HOW!! Suffice it to say that although I've been reading brochures from dozens of woodstove and insert manufactuers over the last year, trying ot make the right choice (for our other chimney) I have NEVER encountered anything as intellignet, informative and enlightening as Cranberg's book. The FIreframe is a gem under any circumstances, but if you need something inexpensive, safe, reliable, and EFFICIENT for warming the YOU in Y2K, believe me this is it.

I spoke with Cranberg the other day. He mistakenly had sent a second grate up in response to my order for one grate, and asked if I sould reject the shipment. I told him of course, but after trying this out I am almost committed to getting one of my neighbors to buy the extra. Al, sorry about the problems in linking to Cranberg's website. I am no Linkmeister, but maybe we can get his help over here.

Let me know if you want more.

STILL ROASTING >>>>>>pant<<<<<<<<

-- Roch Steinbach (rochsteinbach@excite.com), October 19, 1999.

}}PHEW{{

-- Roch Steinbach (rochsteinbach@ excite.com), October 19, 1999.

Shouldn't this thread be prefaced with the words, "AD?"

-- dontspam (this@forum.no), October 19, 1999.

HEY, "DONTSPAM":

Play it safe --- never accept contagious enthusiasm for what it really is: Y2K HUCKSTERISM. You can be sure Roch Steinbach is getting a healthy kickback for his blatant advertisement. You're doing a great service for all of us here, and you're doing it FOR FREE (unless your post is a nefarious front for a 'consumer's products review' service you've started up. And if this is the case, what will your subscription fee be?)

It's certainly good of you to warn all the lurkers out there of anyone who posts SPECIFIC VENDOR INFO IN ORDER FOR PEOPLE TO PURCHASE EFFICIENT Y2K PREP PRODUCTS. In that spirit I feel chagrined when I reflect on all the specific recos I've made in the past 2 years re products to buy (and products to avoid.) I no longer frequent these threads, so I may have missed one of your more informative posts -- but I'll bet YOU've never made the mistake of providing preppers with specific buy information that will help them face what may be coming down the road.

Considering reporting myself to the local BBB,

Bill

-- William J. Schenker, MD (wjs@linkfast.net), October 19, 1999.

Probably so! Great product. Patented. No duplicates.

-- Roch Steinbach (rochsteinbach@excite.com), October 19, 1999.

1) THis fire grate has been around since I was involved in a solar company in Va Beach. (Solar One if anyone remembers). YES it WORKS!

2) Doc Bill, don't hold back next time, tell us how you REALLY feel [G, D, &R].

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 19, 1999.

We have a "fake" fireplace. It is a "steel fireplace" with a steel flue, lined with some type of ceramic brick, although it is for burning wood. Around here we call them "inserts" although there is not an actual brick fireplace built around it. Anyway, can this Texas Fire Frame be used in one of these "pre-built" fireplaces?

-- Got Wood? (i_do@my_back.yard), October 19, 1999.

Got Wood...

The fire frame will work just fine in your insert if the insert is made to burn wood. What the fire frame does is expose more of the red hot coals to the room and allow much more radiant energy into the room than you get with conventional grates.

I've been using one for about 19 years now, and it does great. It does make a normally inefficient fireplace more efficient by greatly increasing the amount of radiant heat given off INTO THE ROOM. And with conventional fireplaces, the only heat the room gets is radiat heat (although there are devices with tubes that blow hot air into the room, also).

Gerald

-- Gerald R. Cox (grcox@internetwork.net), October 22, 1999.

I'd like to get more info on the tube thingies before I decide what to do to improve my fireplace output. Does anyone know the technical name for these things or where I can get more information?

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 22, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr (pic), near Monterey, California

The ones we had in our previous home were brand name Heat-A-Lator.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), October 23, 1999.