OT? Y2k, and Humpty Dumpty et al

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If we take an extended look at the history of ideas, philosophical ideas; i.e. - the Greeks, the Romans, the Inquisition, the Reformation, the Enlightenment, the French and U.S. Revolutions, the World Wars; freedom, liberty, etc. - and their applications to human life and the fulfillment of man-kind's 'greater purpose', et al, -

Were are we?

Or, knowing from whence we have come,

where are we now? and

where are we going?

And in the 'grand scheme' of things, when you are most alone, and in your moments of deepest solitude, (may I ask you to share with us) :

Where do YOU place the events of the current time, and those that may confront us in the very near future?

[at this moment, I'm listening to Mozart quartets - and the above needed to be asked...]

Thank you,


-- Perry Arnett (pjarnett@pdqnet.net), October 17, 1999


No matter where you go ... there you are!

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.cum), October 17, 1999.

Here we IS and IS you ain't.

-- Philosifize this (If you don't Know by now@your toast.com), October 17, 1999.

I've noticed that with you King of Stain. You're like a bad penny.

-- (GetmeThe@barf.bag), October 17, 1999.

I have heard the comparison of the US with the end of the Roman Empire. The talk about the Empire falling from its own weight etc.. etc... The curious thing is that we could very well be between times similar to the beginning of the industrial revolution and the instabilities around the world as power and wealth transferred. But history repeats itself in parts and not wholes, just to make things interesting. So it would seem simplistic to make a single comparison when 2 or even parts of 3 would seem more fitting. The negatives in the present industrial society easily lend themselves to a desire for TEOTWAWKI. Why not just scrap it and start over. We no longer have the ability to support 6+ billion people without technology. So the TEOTWAWKI is not an option. That is the scariest part of not knowing. The potential suffering of not 1,000's but millions of people. The center is not holding without y2k. The world in 10 years will not resemble what we have now regardless of the effects of the date change.

Oh that's right the answer. We could be seeing Hiroshima all over again. In a metaphorical sense we will not be the same if the problems continue past the bump. In a physical sense with the availability of chemical and biological weapons make the coming years feel like the late 50's. The technological age looks like the industrial revolution, with the society and government of the US smelling like Rome burning.

Then again I'm listening to Roger Waters.

-- person (looking@abyss.com), October 17, 1999.

Geeze Perry you don't ask for much do you?

Small answer - I'm sitting on my tush in front of the computer with tofu sizzling on the stove.

Big answer - Its all an illusion

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), October 17, 1999.

On the precipice of a giant shithole.

Oh yeah, I'm listening to Joe Walsh, "Life's Been Good to Me (So Far)"...

-- cavscout (notworried@boutwhat.itmeans), October 17, 1999.

Perry, Interesting that you are listening to Mozart...a very frustrated musician/individual. If you must,listen to Mozart Forte in G- Minor...a little more refreshing......Suggest you switch to Waggner/Happsberg(Sp?)...you'll be hapily waltzing around in no time.As to where we're going...Hopefully back to sanity...Que Sera, Sera. Take two aspirin and repost tomorrow while we all continue to contemplate your question.

-- Larry (Rampon@cyberramp.net), October 17, 1999.

Perry, I, too have heard the Roman Empire analogy applied to the U.S. more frequently in the last few months, but here's something I haven't heard yet...technology as an empire unto itself, overreaching, overextended, and soon to be just plain over
-- CD (CDOKeefe@aol.com), October 18, 1999.

I was watching the old movie "Quo Vadis?" last nite, whilst a knittin' and purlin'. I commenced to ruminatin' on man's "barbarism" as I watched the lions munchin' on Christians and the Roman's laughing in glee. I recall a thinkin' that in twentieth century America, we don't hardly do that any more and that could be considered progress.

Relatin' this to that there question of yourn, I'm guessin' that y2k may reveal how much of the wolf remains in the man.

I'ma hopin' that when my mettle comes up fer testin' that I will perform towards my fellows with compassion, with courage, with optimism and with a willingness to contribute wholeheartedly without a whine er a whimper.

Me --- oh I'm listenin' to Zydeco.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), October 18, 1999.

personally, i'm having a hard time figuring out what to do with myself post y2k, BITR or EOTWAWKI. But, if it's only mild, perhaps we will see the US not at teh end of the Roman Empire, but at the end of the Roman Republic, which, after a serious round of civil wars was transformed into an empire. The big diff geo-politically between the US and the Romans was that there were no technologically advanced states for the average German/Arab/Celt/Slav/Nubian/Persian person to turn to, it was Roman or bust back then, now, other nations have the capacity to develop their own technology to a great extent, and we need them more than the romans needed soem of their satellites. Rome didn't fall when they lost england & Gaul, but we might fall it we lose Japan and taiwan. If we dominated the world for as long as the romans had, (for example if we were the only country in the world that had the secret of the mysterious Iron monster or "tanks", then y2k could possibly put us in a "Imperial Age" situation.) personally though, the only reason I see this as possible is that we are the only nation in the world who coul;d possibly become self sufficient after a crash (say lose 1/3 of the people and go back to 1950's technology) mainly because other nations that have the resources are either choked by overextensive poulations (china and India) or already on life support (russia). But with our luck, it's more likely to be a case of "all fall down" I place y2k up there with the fall of atlantis as far as disasters go, but as to our greater purpose? simple: reproduce ourselves in a manner that doesn't eventually lead us down this path again.

-- jeremiah (braponspdetroit@hotmail.com), October 18, 1999.

On the playlist this morning: "Fantasia ona Theme by Thomas Tallis", Ralph Vaughan Williams; "Adagio for Strings", Samuel Barber; "Gymnopedies Nos. 1 and 3", Eric Satie; "Pavanne", Gabriel Faure.

Perry and all, come over to Humpty Dumpty and join our "what comes next" discussion on a theme of "Ishmael", "Spiritwalker", and others.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-new-answers.tcl?topic=HumptyDu mptyY2K

Humpty Dumpty

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), October 18, 1999.

Meant to turn off the bold, too! BTW,...while I'm here I might add that Mozart managed to produce some amazing pieces, in spite of the on again off again tortured landscape of his psyche. How many of us I wonder could each take a stint as the "mental health poster child"?


-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), October 18, 1999.

Contemplating the state of tings? Try listening to this: http://www.intlog.demon.co.uk/partners.ram


-- lofty tone (gvidioy@hotmail.com), October 18, 1999.

Where are we?

Jerusalem, 587 BC and 70 AD

Paris, 1788

Moscow, 1916

Warsaw, 1938

Moscow again, 1988

-- robert waldrop (rmwj@soonernet.com), October 19, 1999.

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