Expanded domestic use of U.S. military raising civil liberty concerns
The Pentagon
October 7, 1999
Web posted at: 10:27 p.m. EDT (0227 GMT)
From Military Affairs Correspondent Jamie McIntyre
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Changes in the Pentagon's command structure designed to give the military a supporting role in responding to domestic terrorist attacks or natural disasters is raising alarm among some civil libertarians.
In Norfolk, Virginia, on Thursday, top military leaders, and their civilian superiors, unveiled a retooled U.S. Joint Forces Command, formerly the U.S. Atlantic Command.
The new command will coordinate its efforts with federal law enforcement agencies and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. However, Secretary of Defense William Cohen said "it is very clear (the command) is subordinate to civilian control."
VIDEOMilitary Affairs Correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports that civil libertarians have reservations about the Pentagon's reorganization Real28K80KWindows Media28K80K
Pentagon officials say the idea behind the change is to give a president options short of martial law to deal with domestic crises.
"The reason that you want the Defense Department working now with the FBI, with the Justice Department, with FEMA is so we know how we will work when the time comes and we don't have to resort to extreme measures nobody wants in this country," said Deputy Defense Secretary John Hamre.
Also, a defense bill signed this week by President Bill Clinton contains a little-noticed provision that expands the authority of the military to assist law enforcement authorities in case of chemical or biological attacks.
The Pentagon argues that only the military has the field hospitals, helicopters and special chemical and biological equipment that would be vital in the aftermath of a major gas or germ attack.
"I should think the taxpayers would be upset if they thought we weren't preparing to help out the citizens in case of a catastrophic event," said Adm. Harold Gehman, who heads up the U.S. Joint Forces Command.
But the specter of armored military vehicles and armed troops on the streets of American cities has its critics.
"If the plan were simply to carry cots, to deliver supplies, to rescue people, we would be talking about a plan that included, as a feature, no armored vehicles and no armed soldiers," says Gregory Nojeim, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union. "I haven't heard a peep about that from the Pentagon."
Critics point to the disastrous siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, in 1993 -- in which military officials were called in to assist the FBI and the ATF -- as evidence that the military is already too involved in law enforcement.
"At Waco, there were dozens of Bradley fighting vehicles, there were tanks and there were soldiers," said Nojeim.
-- Roland (nottelling@nohwere.com), October 08, 1999
Answers
"Martial Law Lite"...It does have sort of a ring to it.
-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), October 08, 1999.
The line has been drawn , what side will you stand , Liberty and stand
with the ones who rights are beeing taken , or The side of The
federal troopers who want to control your every move , or will you be
one of thoes who are to much of a COWARD to make any stand at all ...
my your chains lay lighty apon you , and hell has a special place set
aside for people who are see wrong doing and yet turn away and pretend
its not there.
What will you do with out FREEDOM , will you fight, or will you run
,if you fight you might die,, but if you run , you will live ,
For a while ,but many years from now when you lay dying in you beds ,
you will look back and think that you would trade all of the days from
this untill that , for one chance, just one chance. come back here and
tell your enemy that they make our lives but they will never take
our FREEDOM !!!!
THE SONS OF LIBERTY ARE WATCHING, Y2K IS A TRIGGER FOR A POWER GRAB
FROM OUR GOVERMENT!!!
MAY GOD BLESS THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!
MONGO. FLAME AWAY I CAN TAKE IT , I AM AN AMERICAN!!
-- MONGO (rjcash@fred.net), October 08, 1999.
CNN Link for above article:
Expa
nded domestic use of U.S. military raising civil liberty concerns
" ... so we know how we will work when the time comes and we
don't have to resort to extreme measures nobody wants in this
country," said Deputy Defense Secretary John Hamre.
All but given, spelled out, guaranteed, folks.
BIG CLUE soon to be
REALITY
-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 08, 1999.
The Top O USA Military just TOLD Y'ALL HOW IT'S GONNA BE !!
Anybody out there listening?
-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 08, 1999.
Cyclops, please delete the bolded-mistake posts.
{Correct HTML, hopefully}
Last November some of our sources told us that Martial Law
plans/set-up would become visible by November 1, 1999. We posted this
on many threads. Yesterday "top military leaders, and their civilian
superiors, unveiled a retooled U.S. Joint Forces Command,
formerly the U.S. Atlantic Command.
"The new command will coordinate its efforts with federal law
enforcement agencies and the Federal Emergency Management Agency ...
... civil libertarians have reservations about the Pentagon's
reorganization ... Pentagon officials say the idea behind the change
is to give a president options short of martial law to deal with
domestic crises. [semantic tweaking will not change the REALITY]
"The reason that you want the Defense Department working now with the
FBI, with the Justice Department, with FEMA is so we know how we will
work when the time comes and we don't have to resort to extreme
measures nobody wants in this country," said Deputy Defense Secretary
John Hamre.
"Also, a defense bill signed this week by President Bill Clinton
contains a little-noticed provision that expands the authority of the
military to assist law enforcement authorities in case of chemical or
biological attacks."
And we all know how for a very long time "terrorism," while a
legitimate concern, is the COVER word for Y2K, the scapegoat for Y2K,
the excuse for Y2K, the PLAN for Y2K !!!
-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 08, 1999.
when the time comes and we don't
have to resort to extreme measures nobody wants in this
country
-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 08, 1999.
THAT TIME IS IN 2
MONTHS
-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 08, 1999.
Food industry, Koskinen withholding information - Long Post
-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 08, 1999.
Revolution calling!!!
-- stand (up@be.counted), October 08, 1999.
-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 08, 1999.
-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 08, 1999.
This is SIGNIFICANT news!
-- agog (where@is.hardliner), October 08, 1999.
Total reorg for a 3-day storm?
-- Doubter (watch@them.do), October 08, 1999.
Thank you for your excitement. I couldn't believe this thread sat
for 5 hours with 1 response. I thought the "DGI Fairy" had sprinkled
her magic dust over the forum.
R.
-- Roland (nottelling@nohwere.com), October 08, 1999.
more like troll excrement diverting everybody else ... hey
-- military (under@FEMA.command), October 08, 1999.
See also thread...
New GAO Report: Critical Infrastructure Protection: Comprehensive
Strategy Can Draw on Year 2000 Experiences
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=
001XkW
And some links to...
Senate Judiciary Committee
October 6, 1999
Terrorism, Technology & Government Information
Critical Information Infrastructure Protection: the Threat is Real.
http://www.senate.gov/~judiciary/witness.htm
-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), October 08, 1999.
"Martial Law Lite?" ROTFWL
Maybe we should suggest this as a new topic for Gary North...or at
least Gary South.
-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), October 08, 1999.
I'd say this has to be the creepiest news I've heard all year. I now
move my y2k richter scale estimate from 5.5-7.5 (75% probabilty of
falling in between those #'s) to 6.5-8.5.
What "interesting times" we live in, and I mean that in the most
Chinese sense of the word possible.
-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), October 09, 1999.
My version of the story:
Cheap Semantics Allows Klinton to Declare Martial Law Without
Declaring Martial Law, Liberal lapdogs raise minor fuss.
The Pentagon
October 7, 1999 Web posted at: 10:27 p.m. EDT (0227 GMT)
From Military Affairs Correspondent Gordon Gecko
WASHINGTON (GNN) -- Changes in the Pentagon's command structure
designed to allow the president to use the military when Y2K
goes FUBAR are actually raising some concerns amoung fringe liberals.
The remaining 95% of society didn't even take notice this week, they
were to busy watching baseball.
In Norfolk, Virginia, on Thursday, top military leaders, and their
civilian superiors, unveiled a retooled U.S. Joint Forces Command,
formerly the U.S. Atlantic Command. By creating a new nifty moniker
the adminstration hopes that people will not see it for what it
actually is. After all, what could be more harmless than Joint
Forces. The administration revealed that they had also rejected
several names before arriving at this designation including, Supreme
Imperial Wizard and Protektor of Supermarkets, Almighty Queller of
Civil Unrest and the ever popular Der Fuhrer.
The new command will coordinate its efforts with federal law
enforcement agencies and the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
However, Secretary of Defense William Cohen said "it is very clear
(the command) is subordinate to civilian control." Cohen pointed
this out when asked if the military would fire on civilians storming
a local Costco. He responded, "It would be up to the local sherrif
to make that call, we don't want anyone shot unless he makes that
call".
Pentagon officials say the idea behind the change is to give a
president options short of martial law to deal with domestic crises.
They have been worried recently that the virtual flood of executive
orders may actually have raised enough awareness to prove troublesome
to thier plans for martial law. General Groceries Aremine was quoted
as saying "You know, we floated the idea to Bill and the next thing
you know, the guy's got freaking writers cramp from all the damn
executive orders. That hillbilly doesn't know the meaning of covert
or operational security."
"The reason that you want the Defense Department working now with the
FBI, with the Justice Department, with FEMA is so we know how we will
work when the time comes and we don't have to resort to extreme
measures nobody wants in this country," said Deputy Defense Secretary
John Hamre. "I mean at this point those damn Yourdenites have posted
so much shit about martial law and that wacko North has put so many
links to our ops that we could get totally hamstrung by someone or
some group who actually sees this for what it will be, an assault on
basic liberties." said Hamre. "We simply can't have that happen, so
we've come up with ML Light. Tastes great, less offensive. Same
strong military response, but no bitter foretaste." according to
Hamre.
"I should think the taxpayers would be upset if they thought we
weren't preparing to help out the citizens in case of a catastrophic
event," said Adm. Harold Gehman, who heads up the U.S. Joint Forces
Command. Gehman added, "I think the commander in chief would also be
upset if he tried to declare martial law and was stopped by some
group of liberal constitution waving commies. After all, we live in a
world with walls, and on those walls are men with guns...."
But the specter of armored military vehicles and armed troops on the
streets of American cities has its critics which is surprising
considering how sharp those darn Bradley's look all cammied out and
such.
"If the plan were simply to carry cots, to deliver supplies, to
rescue people, we would be talking about a plan that included, as a
feature, no armored vehicles and no armed soldiers," says Gregory
Nojeim, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union.
"I haven't heard a peep about that from the Pentagon."
Critics point to the disastrous siege of the Branch Davidian compound
in Waco, Texas, in 1993 -- in which military officials were called in
to assist the FBI and the ATF -- as evidence that the military is
already too involved in law enforcement.
"At Waco, there were dozens of Bradley fighting vehicles, there were
tanks and there were soldiers," said Nojeim.
-- Gordon (g_gecko_69@hotmail.com), October 09, 1999.
Hey, Gorden. I hear "The Onion" is hiring!
ROTFLMAO!
R.
-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), October 09, 1999.
Gordon -- YES !! MORE MORE MORE ;~D
ROFLOAOTWP !! Only *gawk* it's true! At least some others see it!
We just got home after a llloooonnngggg weekend working for that
elderly couple, separated from our computer = Hell! Looks like we
missed a really good weekend on the Forum. Clicked on this thread
first to see if anybody else had *noticed* this boggling news -- been
on our thoughts every moment.
And now to try to catch up ... look at all these juicy threads ...
whoa! Any news as scwallop as this?
Getting way too close to the Big Fuse, not gonna be parted from our
computer again!
-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), October 11, 1999.
Is this the same as "Homeland Command?" Does somebody review these
reorgs for lawfulness? Why is everybody sleeping through this?
-- newbie wondering (w_thomas@cnsc.org), October 11, 1999.
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