You know I grasped pretty early-on the signifigance of global interdependencies and local Y2k vulnerabilities. What I really didn't get for months was this expectation by many GIs that the govt would do something about it.

The govt will not do anything for you as of 1/1/00. Wanna know why? You will be poor. The middle class has spent the last two years cutting aid to the poor. Less than 4% of our budget is spent helping the elderly poor survive yet they are the largest growing segment of our population. We spend more money helping the hungry in other countries than we do in our own.

My parents are way past retirement age. There is NO WAY they could afford to stop working now.

No wonder denial abounds.

Y2k best case scenario - No middle class, everybody poor. Want and need. Hunger. All those status conscious latte' sipping Volvo driving yuppies are going to have to live like everybody else in the world. The govt has responded to your wishes and slashed assistance to poor families. Guess what bunkie!!! Next year that will be YOU!!!!!!

You wanna prep for Y2k? Stop whining. Talk to poor people. Find out how they survive. Your gonna need those skills cuz' the middle class is goin down like the Titanic.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), October 07, 1999

Answers

---

Your points are well taken and expressed.

If we are prepared or preparing, please remember to prepare for others as well.

The elderly parents, the infirmed child, the weak, the poor, and more.

...it won't cost much...and it could save some souls.

Be generous with love.

Think of others.

---

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 07, 1999.

     Let's see, hmmmmmm, 90% at or near poverty level, basic 
infrastructure more or less intact but often inoperable in large 
areas and frequently unreliable,  rationing of basic commodities,
curfews, national id cards for basic & rationed health care service,
10% obscenely wealthy and flaunting it,  and a federal government
run as and by a Kleptocracy.



     What other country comes to mind exhibiting these unusual, same 
characteristics?



                     



     That's right!  The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.  And now
for the follow up question :  what form of economic theory and system
produces this type of society?



      Boy, you're hot tonight!  You guessed it,  socialism.



And now for the essay part of tonight's quiz.  What type of political 
and civil organization does this system's citizens enjoy?



                     

-- Nunja Biznec ( @ .org), October 07, 1999.

actually my concern is also that if y2k is half as bad as some of us think--it will also "kill off" many of society's most vulnerable-- anyone who is ill, dependent upon government support, residing in a nursing or state home, those who depend upon home medical care, lots of folks. i am worried that so many nursing homes, hospitals, state facilities, home care providers, etc are not addressing all the areas they need to (primarily because they have so many areas to deal with-- physical plant, medical devices, pharmaceuticals, supplies, power, water, sewer, food) that when it hits (if we have any major disruptions), they will be overwhelmed.

-- tt (cuddluppy@yahoo.com), October 07, 1999.

R, Thank you. The barely middle class have, with the collusion/encouragement of the rich politicians, been looking back at the poor as if poverty were a moral judgment. We may now discover that circumstances are more powerful than an individual's will. It will break all our hearts many times over.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), October 07, 1999.

Middle class?!? What Middle class? There ain't no such animal no more Bubba! The world is either the 'haves' or the 'have nots' The middle class if not entirely gone, is a soon-to-be-extinct animal. Gone are the herds of 'burb dwelling white picket fenced Boobus North Americanus. Once mighty herds roamed the great plains and minimalls of this great country, breeding with the obligatory North American Bighair, Boobus Americanus Robustus was eventually exterminated by the Free-Market Traders.

Sad, isn't it?

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), October 07, 1999.

ATTITUDE CHECK!!! just because i am not part of a group or have what that group has (i.e., rich, powerful, middle class) does not automatically give me a right to have a bad attitude toward them and wish them harm. many of those "middle class" folks are actually quite decent and give alot to the poor and are actually providing the tax base for much of the world (and the benefits to those in society who rely on non-profit and govt social programs). seems to me that a "destructive" attitude toward another person based on what they have or i don't have could be pretty destructive during y2k. hate to tell you but the socialists WANT TO SOW SEEDS OF DEVISIVENESS AND HAVE CLASS WARFARE. and definitely, if i am a christian (for those of us that are), i am not supposed to be envious and covetous of what another person has. it is destructive to them but especially to me. who knows, if God sees that in me, he may take some of my possessions to feed and clothe some of those middle class folks to help sanctify my attitude.

-- tt (cuddluppy@yahoo.com), October 07, 1999.

From my perspective I will not be sad to see the fall of the "yuppy economy" that we've witnessed over the last decade or so. Just like the arrogant, snobby yuppies that flamed out in the 80's so to will this wonderful economy that has been driven only massive amounts of Fed'l/Corp/Personal debt. This illusion only has a short time to last and I for one, will not miss the ignorance, arrogance and sheer stupidity that it has bred throughout our population.

-- saveamerica (jb40@hotmial.net), October 07, 1999.

leaving the world no poorer,many will die

-- Apokoliptik (apokoliptik@lar.ge), October 07, 1999.

I would just like to say that it discusts me to hear some of you talk about how "COOL" you thik it will be if Middle class people bite the big one. You sound like a bunch of jelous white trash.

I personally don't want to see bad things come to anyone, but then im not looking down my nose at the general public like many of the people on this board.

My parents are middle class people, they live the yuppie lifestyle...and they F*CKING earned it! My parents also donate money and services to all types of organizations, and our company sponsers a poor, single parent family at christmas time EVERY YEAR.

Just because someone "sips latte" or drives a Volvo doesn't mean they are evil. Get a life.

You people shoule be ashamed.

-- Mad Max\ (me@yourmomshouse.fun), October 07, 1999.

Hey Max! I'll get a life if you'll get a spell checker.

-- Ralph Kramden (and@awaywego.com), October 07, 1999.

I agree with Max. Yes, yuppies are insensitive and arrogant. That's because they are the entrepreneurial engines that drive society. We are merely the upholstery. They don't have time for our bullshit, and that miffs us. But they have their part to play. When you clamp a socialist lid down on humanity, these "engines" head right to the bureaucracy, like flies to excrement. So you have the same "yuppies" lording it over you, but now they have ABSOLUTE POWER OVER YOUR MISERABLE LIFE, and you yourself have zero opportunity to advance yourself through your own efforts, such as buying something cheap and selling it at a profit. The same asshole, driving the same Lexus, is going to be running you down in the same intersection - but instead of a suit, he'll be wearing a uniform - or whatever the nomenclatura are wearing this year. And he and his children, or cousins, and their children, will be running you down FOREVER, or until you or your children put them in a ditch, whichever comes first. In this system, you can organize, be elected to public office, make a million dollars influence events - and the main reason you don't is, admit it: lack of energy and persistence. Look at the people who do these things; they aren't brighter than we, they're just not as complacent.

Envy, like anger, blinds us and causes us to make decisions that are not in our self interest. The totalitarian bastards know this. And here we are, taking the bait - and it's not even Y2k yet!

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 07, 1999.

I agree with your basic sentiments Mad Max,if not your delivery...

-- matt (matt@somewhere.nz), October 07, 1999.

I'm a yuppie. Aren't I? I don't have a Volvo or all kinds of keen electronic do-dads. But I do have alot of disposble income. (Actually, the government and I have alot of disposable income. They get half.) I am conservative in my spending so I don't buy $2.00 cups of frothy coffee. I contribute to charities and spend time in various forms of community service. How did I get to be a yuppie? Well, I happened to pick a career where if you work hard you can make alot of money. So I did and I do.

If you don't like me because of how much I make or where I live, well, that's your business. The social engineers who are busy destroying this country haven't put Yuppies on the list of protected sub-classes. There are no "hate speech" laws protecting me, someone you don't know but who happens to be a member of the group of people you are railing against. No one will make weepy movies about anything terrible that happens to me or "my kind".

But if you do happen to wipe out "my kind", well, then that will be pretty funny. Because then you'll have to be charitable to the poor with your own money.

Oh, and poor person survival skills = Get check out of mail box. Cash. Repeat. I know some people who had no money and no place to live. But after I helped them get a job they quickly became un-poor. Some of them even became yuppies.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), October 07, 1999.

NEWSFLASH!! NEWSFLASH!!

The middle class was destroyed during the Reagan Years.

With a little luck Y2K will bring it back when all of the poor and oppressed rise up and take back everything that the filthy stinkin rich have stolen from them.

-- @ (@@@.@), October 07, 1999.

I'm with you eyes, and yes Max.

-- (cannot-say@this.time), October 07, 1999.

I don't have anything against the middle class. I have been part of it from time to time. I was born and raised in it. The middle class lifestyle is great. Unfortunatly it is doomed.

The middle class (at least here in California) has stood by for the last 10 years while poor people (really really poor people) got hungrier every day. They stood by when Clinton eliminated AFDC. They got their free education and then stopped voting in school bonds. They voted in laws that eliminated medical care to the migrant workers that make it possible for them to eat.

Yes the middle class pays taxes - lots of them - and then leaves it up to politicians and special interest groups to decide where it goes. It turns out it ends up in the pockets of the rich through corporate welfare which trickles down to the middle class in the form of high-paying white collar middle class jobs.

No one is claiming the middle class doesn't work. Thats what makes them the MIDDLE class as opposed to the idle rich. Nonetheless, by and large what the middle class has produced is services and cyber space. The middle class usually doesn't actaully make or grow anything. They usually act as middlemen in between those who produce and those who consume.

I am generalizing of course. I even know a few middle class organic farmers. The rest all seem to be lawyers, bureaucrats and geeks. They bought into a system, invested in it and have been rewarded handsomely by it. Meanwhile, the farm workers, garment makers, and factory workers have lost their jobs to overseas companies. Their medical benefits have been obliterated and their children have been forgotten.

Most of the middle class folks I know (all of them very nice people) are in total denial about lots of things - not just Y2k. They are too busy trying to keep their heads above their own debt to notice that the system is falling apart around their ears. They are in for a shock. Do I wish this on them? Of course not! Do I wish they would wake up and see how most of the world lives - you bet. It might save their lives.

There will be no class war because there will be no class. There will be rich people and the rest of us.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), October 07, 1999.

Hmm...so i screwed up on a couple words. I type for sh*t...ill admit it. Funny how people that have no valid input seem to feel the need to attack spelling errors.

again, sad.

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 07, 1999.

"Yes, yuppies are insensitive and arrogant. "

Where do you people get off making such blanket statements??

-- Cory Hill (coryh@strategic-services.net), October 07, 1999.

I personally resent the fact that while we are middle class ( just barely) we miss out on many of the programs available to people making maybe 5,000 less per year than we do. I'm relatively sure the disposable income of some section 8's around here is higher than ours, and they have a much heftier housing allowance to work with. Tell me where is the benefit of working overtime to have less than the guy guzzling a Coors and fixing his car in the middle of the afternoon? I also have to wonder what is so noble about a group of people who earned their fortune by phoning their broker ever so often. So I guess you could say I resent everyone except the middle class. And I make no apologies for it.

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), October 07, 1999.

Male,White and Middle class.....it's ALL my fault

-- SWM (my fault@ofcourse.itis), October 08, 1999.

Gia,

You may think you're middle class, but it doesn't sound like it to me. At least that isn't the way the middle class was 20 or 30 years ago. To me there isn't really much of a middle class anynore, it's primarily the haves and the have-nots. The haves are the people who could go out and buy a new car tomorrow without thinking about it. They can schedule a couple days off work next week and jump on a plane first class for an extended 4 day weekend in Hawaii or Vegas. The rest of us have to work for years to save up for things like this. We're really in the same league with the poorest, we just work harder.

-- @ (@@@.@), October 08, 1999.

Let me get this straight - all but the very rich (5% of the pop.) will be broke and government will refuse us assistance? Sounds like overhaul time. How willing do you think the soldiers will be to shoot us in the streets while their own friends and families are starving at home?

-- mil (millenium@yahoo.com), October 08, 1999.

I think that the original premise of this thread is seriously flawed. I'm surprised that so many, though not all, have chimed in - in agreement. Somebody has been smokin' too much envy juice.

sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), October 08, 1999.

To be fair, juice won't smoke properly. It might steam and they could inhale it. Or perhaps they were sizzling in the juice itself.

-- Larry (polandspring@hotmail.com), October 08, 1999.

ditto S. David. I notice riversoma, who started this whole thread, has never responded back to the issue of envy--she just continues to look for sympathy for the poor and heap anger on the "middle class". watch the bitterness and the self-pity. it is hard being poor but often it is only for a season. just look at all the folks that came out of the depression. most of them went through a season of poverty and learned from it. it is not necessarily a life sentence. i am a single mother, i have been in the position of losing everything and being totally broke but now i feel very fortunate that god has allowed me now to have a decent income. and because he has done that, i truly appreciate what i have and it has made me want to help out others. quit making your envious assumptions about the middle class. if you want to see what is really going on in america, it is some of the filthy rich and powerful(and there are some fine filthy rich folks too) that do not want the poor to be less poor nor the middle class to stop supporting everyone. so they manipulate the system to keep the status quo. we are all gonna be poor soon probably. but don't clap when we all get there or god will deal with your hard heart. we should all grieve when we get there. when god gives us much of something, he doesn't give it to us to make us gloat but to allow us to use it for the good of others.

-- tt (cuddluppy@yahoo.com), October 08, 1999.