If the pollies disbelieve that y2k is anything more than a bitr, why would they bother coming here to discuss it with all of us deluded doomers? Are they perhaps fishing for proof for their position in the rantings they find... and is this in any way tied to their inability to spell?

-- Patrick McHenry (pmchenry@gradall.com), October 05, 1999

Answers

Let 'em have it!

-- no crackers for polly (goodshot@polly.dude), October 05, 1999.

They keep saying that everything is okay, so why do they keep talking about it? Yes Patrick, the pollies are here because deep down they don't believe the "polly gurus." As a matter of fact, they don't really have a belief system. Whichever way the wind blows, that's the way they lean. They really have no original thoughts or ideas, they try to find the best argument against the truth or a lie. They see themselves as a member of a debate team and it does not matter which side they are on, as long as they can win the debate. Winning is all they are after, and someone has to lose. As soon as Y2K gets here, I am sure the pollies will find a way to be on both sides of the street.

-- street smart (streetsmart@streetsmartt.xcom), October 05, 1999.

Isn't it obvious? They are so uncertain of what is going to happen that they are trying to get us to convince them that we are right. They are too insecure to admit they are vulnerable to something beyond their control, but deep down inside, they are right there with us.

-- @ (@@@.@), October 05, 1999.

I asked this same question some time ago, although in a different way. I believe that part of the answer lies in the fact that Y2K has become a political issue. Somehow it has come to epitomize the views of both the right and left, the battle of self reliance and self determination versus Marxism and Fascism. This is the last, most important battle for the left and they are passionatly trying to prove to the right that big government is good and that we never have anything to fear from it. Most of them are leeches and would have a difficult time finding work under any condition other than a government position or are dependent upon the government for their livelihood. 20% of people in cities receive food stamps, 30% in cities receive some other type of government aid, 15% are retired, and 30% work for Federal, State, or Local Governments or related businesses dependant upon government money. Many wealthy lawyers, accountants, realtors, developers, and contractors are that way because of influence emanating from government. Still wondering why they hang out at conservative and libertarian boards ? I wonder if they are as scared of a big Y2K problem as they should be ?

-- Henry Hide (eating@thetrough.gov), October 06, 1999.

what i wonder is.. if y2k does go down will the professionals lawyers dr.s dentist all the high tech people, will they be the new poor? WILL THEY KNOW HOW TO LIVE THAT WAY?

-- sandy (rstyree@overland.net), October 06, 1999.

Henry Hyde,

Your name suits you well. You sound like the type of stereotyping, prejudicing, hypocritical bigot that I would expect from a right wing extremist. It's a real joy to know that we live among such progressive open-minded individuals such as yourself.

For the record, I do not believe a single word of what you just posted and I doubt that many others do either. I don't know where you are getting your stereotype classifications, but I have yet to meet a person, conservative or liberal, who is in favor of big government. And if you weren't so hungup on your pre-conceived opinions of your fellow man you might notice than you contradict your own statements all in the same paragraph. That's because there is absolutely no validity to what you preach, and I can see right through you.

Please take your cynical disgusting self-serving propaganda over to the extremist web sites where it will be appreciated. You disgust me!

-- @ (@@@.@), October 06, 1999.

* * * 19991006 Wednesday

Through thorough cultural conditioning, the _mass_ ( self-centered, other directed ) Polly perception that Y2K and consequences are matters subject to the results of popular opinions and/or opinion polls which, in turn, translate to de facto, albeit fiat, reality. False premises lead to false conclusions.

Irrefutable mathematical and logical operations that employ comparative statements using 2-digit shorthand for years in computer programs on virtually all platforms has no standing in the realms of popularity or wishful thinking contests ( e.g., Copernicus! ). To deny the math is to deny reality out of hand.

Proof for a Polly is not required for any position on any matter of opinion. All Pollys require for affirmation of any position is to experience a subjective "good feeling" for the subjective payoff of "feeling good." Objective reality and discrete consequences have nothing to do with Polly reality.

Virtual obliteration of opponents via ad hominem is the Polly modus operandi. For the Polly, objective, critical thinking applied to concrete principles and premises is anathema.

Why do the Pollys come here? Pollys have to be somewhere to exercise their need for "feeling good" for their craven for neverending "good feeling" cravings.

Regards, Bob Mangus

* * *

-- Robert Mangus (rmangus1@yahoo.com), October 06, 1999.

* * * 19991006 Wednesday

Case in point:

@ (@@@.@), October 06, 1999, wrote:

"Henry Hyde, Your name suits you well. You sound like the type of stereotyping, prejudicing, hypocritical bigot that I would expect from a right wing extremist. It's a real joy to know that we live among such progressive open-minded individuals such as yourself.

For the record, I do not believe a single word of what you just posted and I doubt that many others do either. I don't know where you are getting your stereotype classifications, but I have yet to meet a person, conservative or liberal, who is in favor of big government. And if you weren't so hungup on your pre-conceived opinions of your fellow man you might notice than you contradict your own statements all in the same paragraph. That's because there is absolutely no validity to what you preach, and I can see right through you.

Please take your cynical disgusting self-serving propaganda over to the extremist web sites where it will be appreciated. You disgust me!"

--------

Polly: Never mind whether the statistics "Henry Hide" cited can be verified and/or disputed from Census data.

Fact: More than one-half of the U.S. population is dependent upon Social Security, SSI, Welfare, Food Stamps, government (federal, state, local) employment or vendor contracts. Ergo, more than half of the population has an irrefutable vested interest in big government. Worse yet, growing the largess ever more.

Don't feed the Pollys!

Regards, Bob Mangus

* * *

-- Robert Mangus (rmangus1@yahoo.com), October 06, 1999.

* * * 19991006 Wednesday

sandy: Those that adapt will survive; otherwise, they will perish!

Regards, Bob Mangus

* * *

-- Robert Mangus (rmangus1@yahoo.com), October 06, 1999.

You're as full of crap as the Hyde character Mangus. Just because people collect Social Security that they have paid into for their entire lives doesn't make them in favor of big government.

You say;

"Ergo, more than half of the population has an irrefutable vested interest in big government."

Ergo? Well, isn't that nifty how you just draw an immediate conclusion that because the government takes 1/3 of our paychecks and we want it back that this makes us love them.

Hey, I got an "Ergo" for ya... how about this..

Ergo, you are a frickin idiot!

-- @ (@@@.@), October 06, 1999.

Uh....knock knock...anybody home?

Have you not noticed that Doomers go to sites like Biffy and Debunkie?

Living in glass houses? Throwing rocks?

DUH.

And Mr. McHenry, I made A's in spelling all the way through 6th grade. Which gives me a far greater level of spelling expertise than many of the Doomers I see here on a regular basis.

Of course, many of the regular inhabitants here seem to be under the influence of exotic substances, or more exotic mental disabilities; so schooling, or the lack of it, does not really apply in such cases.

-- Chicken Little (panic@forthebirds.net), October 06, 1999.

This is a common, oft-expressed plaint.

Visiting here is mostly a regrettable but basically harmless habit, like eating crackers in bed. Like Flint, I come to watch the eternally amusing passion-play of belief quixotically dueling with facts. I especially relish decisive "Polly" rebuttals of vague, persistent fear-mongering. Recently, for example, Hoffmeister "got it"---and gave it: a definitive retort to dark broodings that "big iron" mainframe collapse would grind society to a spooky halt. We can only hope that Mr. Hamasaki, leaning moodily against a tower of canned tuna, was listening. Or witness "Fact Finder," who marshalled impressive evidence that shattered lingering doubts about embedded- chip mayhem. Meanwhile, Mr. Yourdon, quelled, is reduced to protesting that there's no use engaging in further debate as there's less than 90 days left. This strikes me as feeble evasion of facts.

In sooth, the pessimists no longer have a leg to stand on, save their personal convictions. If there's a fleshy, full-blooded leg they can stand on, why, by all means, let them produce it.

-- Celia Thaxter (celiathaxter@yahoo.com), October 06, 1999.

Celia,

Have you actually done any investigating of the facts, or do you just prefer to remain ignorant because it permits you to continue to "relish decisive "Polly" rebuttals" which have absolutely no grounds in reality. This isn't a game show lurker lady, it is a real problem. We'll see how pompous you are when you are running to your neighbors for food, and Mr. Hamasaki is "leaning moodily against a tower of canned tuna".

-- @ (@@@.@), October 06, 1999.

I come here to read the latest "doom and gloom," and to see how the doomers are reacting to the latest failure of their time-lined predictions to come to pass. It is all quite funny to read, while quite sad to see people clinging to an ever-(pardon the pun) doomed belief structure.

It was enlightening to read that some doomers think we pollies are here "just to win a debate." That lends itself to the notion "I cannot prove I am right, nor that you are wrong. Neither can I offer the stronger argument in a logical fashion; I am just right, damn the evidence and logic to the contrary!" Really. How charming to be able to live in the dream of such distorted reality. It is equally amusing to read the criticisms of spelling. In the essence of human debate communication, complaints about vocabulary and spelling are the moral equivalent of stating, in response to irrefutable arguments; "So?" I believe that is why only doomers complain about spelling and vocabulary.

I hope the doomers are able to find some suitable replacement for their catastrophic hopes and dreams after nothing occurs 000101, really I do. It will be sad to have invested so much of one's self and one's capital into such a deadline-oriented belief structure, only to have reality pull the carpet from beneath one's feet. Sad indeed.

Regards,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), October 06, 1999.

Regarding "running to the neighbor's for food," that is hilarious! I haven't had to run to my neighbor's for food since the stock market crashed on 990701! :)

Reagrds,
Andy Ray

-- Andy Ray (andyman633@hotmail.com), October 06, 1999.

I come here for a laugh. Thanks Bob you have given me many in the past. When I first posted over a year ago, the doomer bashing was pathetic, mean dogs with no brains. I kept looking for doomer logic and found that that was an oxymoron. Thanks for the memories.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), October 06, 1999.

Why do doomers constantly ask why pollies come to sites like this? Are they afraid to read opinions that don't happen to match their own?

-- (HatTrick@Mc.Penry), October 06, 1999.

This question has been asked about once every two months for a long time now. My conclusions are that:

(1) Pollys are pathetic souls who simply like to argue about issues they find irrelevant to their world;

(2) Pollys are on somebody's payroll and authorized to keep the forum somewhat off balance to minimize a grass roots panic.

(3) All of the above.

I understand why I come here: real concern mixed with a growing obsession. In the absence of the real concern, what have you got? I actually put serious credence with the "paid shill" model.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), October 06, 1999.

Celia = Flint.

-- thanks (for@the.clue), October 06, 1999.

Top 5 reasons why the pollies frequent this site:

5. They confused the sights and sounds of the forum with a video poke machine and became addicted.

4. Those Sesame Street reruns can get boring.

3. Hidden romantic desires (Maria+KOS; Anita+BigDog; Decker+Diane; Flint+Andy)

2. Disgusted with Ed Yourdon's screenplay and demand that he change it to have a happy ending.

and the #1 reason:

1. Two words: They're stupid.

-- a (a@a.a), October 06, 1999.

I read this forum because it makes me thankful to be alive with a positive attitude. Doomers are miserable souls with nothing better to do than seek out bad news. It's like a drug for them.

@@@@@@@@@, Why so defensive? I bet you are one of those leaches on the government utter.

-- (sickofthis@crap.com), October 06, 1999.

"Don't be afraid to take your rightful place as rulers of the earth."

I wouldn't have believed this one if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. That's why....

Speaking of stupid.....

a - Have you renewed that 2 YEAR subscription to Scary Gary's newsletter yet???

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), October 06, 1999.

REASON NO. 1: Nobody has posted on Debunking the Y2K Hype (run by Buddy/Doomslayer) since September 30.

REASON NO. 2: The poor quality and content of the threads on Debunking Y2K (run by "Doc Paulie") (* = new thread):

*DIRECTOR of Fear Marketing North notes Y2k Food Vendor slump, ADVISES BONANZA NEXT YEAR. RIGHT ON, Brer GAREEEEE - cpr 04:58:50 10/06/99 (2)

But...for the PAYING CUSTOMERS,Duct Tape GAREE'' pushes TAH DAH: CHOCOLATE FOR BARTER NEXT YEAR IN ***FINAL*** REMNANT REVIEW - cpr 05:52:35 10/06/99 (0)

Hang onto that inventory! - Paul Davis 05:27:01 10/06/99 (0)

*The Future Oh, the Horror of It All. The Senator and the Well Dress Bag Lady's White Paper (not in 5 parts mind you). - cpr 04:36:17 10/06/99 (2)

EARTH TO WELL DRESSED BAG LADY.......WOULD YOU MARCH NAKED FOR THIS ???? - cpr 04:42:28 10/06/99 (1)

Charlie... - mpc 07:51:37 10/06/99 (0)

*Doomer unemployment - Andy Ray 02:19:43 10/06/99 (7)

Do you visit Biffy? - Patricia 05:44:27 10/06/99 (3)

Someone on csy2k asked Cory a similar question. - Anita 06:22:18 10/06/99 (2)

Re: Someone on csy2k asked Cory a similar question. - mpc 07:45:44 10/06/99 (0)

I'm guessing there was no answer. (n/t) - Patricia 06:49:46 10/06/99 (0)

Can you blame them? Have a look at older Doomers like Cory: - Stephen M. Poole, TTMHMIY2K 04:36:43 10/06/99 (2)

Don't generalize TOO much, Stephen. - Anita 07:02:07 10/06/99 (0)

No sweat. Cory and YourOutTheDoor are just standard turn of the century prognosticators. LAST TIME IT WAS Oct.1899, BUGGY WHIP MAKERS AND REPAIR MEN CLAIM HORSELESS CARRIAGE A PASSING FAD. Can you blame them? Have a look at older Doomers like Cory: - cpr 04:49:50 10/06/99 (0)

REASON NO. 3: The poor quality and content of the threads on Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot forum (run by Paul Davis) (buytexas = cpr) (had to add in yesterday's posts for lack of material):

1559. "Expert" Gary Duct Tape North in "final" Remnant Review pushes "Chocolate bars" for Y2k barter. He needs an ExLax PURGE. by buytexas@swbell.net, Oct 06, 08:14 1. I'd eat my stash of candy before getting a chance to barter any :D by Maria, Oct 06, 09:33

1558. So called experts...., Oct 05, 22:49

1557. the trigger effect by ghost, Oct 05, 21:45 2. No electricity for over a MONTH? by Peg, Oct 06, 09:38 1. Doubt you will get many negative responses here. by Paul Davis, Oct 05, 22:06

1556. Why do you idiots think anyone who prepares for more than a 3 day problem is a GN fan? by Being Frank, Oct 05, 12:34

2. Don't be silly by Paul Davis, Oct 05, 15:42

3. Point taken... Color me outta here by Being Frank, Oct 05, 17:34

1. Hey, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings or anything. by Paul Davis, Oct 05, 21:51

2. Good point, (and big duh on my part) never thought of it in those terms !! (n/t) by Patricia, Oct 05, 16:53 1. Here here! by John Doe, Oct 05, 15:53

1. Hey good point! by John Doe, Oct 05, 13:26

1. Speaking for myself... by Patricia, Oct 05, 14:40

(_ (blush) at the risk of being horribly redundant, I LOVE PATRICIA! by John Doe, Oct 05, 14:56

1555. Well folks, it's been real, it's been fun, it's been real fun.... by DavePrime, Oct 05, 04:12

3. Don't let the door hit you in the ass, DavePrime by Julie, Oct 05, 11:52

1. Some excellent points there. by Patricia, Oct 05, 15:02

1. Bottom line: you made up your mind in JAN. came here to "inform" and justify your own WASTE OF MONEY ON PREPPING. LOSER! by buytexas@swbell.net, Oct 05, 07:19

1554. State of Y2K - First of October, 1999 by Stephen M. Poole, TTMHMIY2K, Oct 05, 01:49

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 06, 1999.

Why do doomers like Old Git go to polly sites like that?

-- (HatTrick@Mc.Penry), October 06, 1999.

Actually, I don't think I'm technically a doomer. Why do I go to sites like that? Well, it's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it. Seriously? I guess it's so I can make posts like the above.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 06, 1999.

Why do I go to sites like that? Well, it's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it.

And now you have the answer to the original question. Thanks for playing.

-- (HatTrick@Mc.Penry), October 06, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr near Monterey, California

Here are some other explanations at I Finally Figured Out Why Pollies/Trolls Come Here.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), October 06, 1999.

sickofthis@crap.com,

FYI, my father served in the Navy during WWII, and was an Air Traffic Controller for the FAA for over 20 years. Not a fun job, but somebody's gotta do it. He is now retired and collecting Social Security which he has been paying into for all of his life. Unfortunately he is dying of cancer and won't even get what he has rightfully earned. He did not pay this because he likes big government (he hates it). In case you didn't notice, the government likes to put people in jail who don't pay. He is the hardest working person on this planet and never once took a handout. So you and the narrow-minded right-winger Mr. Hyde can continue to refer to anyone who has ever worked for the government as a "leech", but if you ever say that about anyone I know, I will track you down, shove my fist all the way up through your back door until I reach your tongue, and I will use it to pull your head out through your as*hole. Get the picture?

-- @ (@@@.@), October 06, 1999.

So, Hat-Trick, you believe pollies think exactly the same way I do. Interesting.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 06, 1999.

Wait for the screaming hordes of outraged pollies to descend. Hat-trick (or should I say Paul Davis?) has posted these remarks on the Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot forum. What a game!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 06, 1999.

Sorry Old Git, but I believe it was you who posted it to Biffy.

-- don't think so (try@gain.git), October 06, 1999.

Not me. I don't post to hostile sites where they can trace me by my IP.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 06, 1999.

Old what-ever.

Don't dish it out if ya can't take it.

-- (wh@t.ever), October 06, 1999.

And here we have a final, sterling example of polly deducing skills! Case made and subject firmly closed!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 06, 1999.

So, Hat-Trick, you believe pollies think exactly the same way I do.

I never said that. I just pointed out that their reason for coming here is the same as your reason for going there.

Hat-trick (or should I say Paul Davis?) has posted these remarks on the Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot forum.

I didn't post anything to that forum. I'm also not Paul Davis. Other than that, you are correct.

-- (HatTrick@Mc.Penry), October 06, 1999.

Actually, I don't think I'm technically a doomer. Why do I go to sites like that? Well, it's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it. Seriously? I guess it's so I can make posts like the above.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), October 06, 1999.

What's to deduce? You copied titles to threads in an attempt to be disparaging. Right?

-- (wh@t.ever), October 06, 1999.

Pollies: 86 shopping days left. Quit arguing like preschoolers and get prepping already.

-- snap (out@of.it), October 06, 1999.

All of you are just sad.

(shaking head in disbelief)

-- Modem Butterfly (modem_butterfly@yahoo.com), October 06, 1999.

What is the URL to debunking board?

-- ~.~ (ur@url.com), October 06, 1999.

Debunking Y2K

Gary North is a Big Fat Idiot"

Don't troll though, you will be instantly flamed.

-- (go@your.own_risk), October 06, 1999.