On other digital camera forums I am seeing an increasing amount of discussion on the Epson 850Z. Why not here? For thoose of you who haven't taken a look at 850Z you are missing out. Ergonomics like the Olympus 2000 only better and features like the Nikon 950. Add a flash hot shoe and USB all for less than $700 this is a camera that should be turning many heads.

-- Bob G. (rgreg88721@hotmail.com), October 01, 1999

Answers

See the thread below this one, asking about Sony digicams. - Epson (along with Sony) have been remarkably standoffish. I'm hopeful we're eventually going to be able to get them on the site, but it's been a LOOONG struggle. - I had one guy convinced to send us eval units earlier in the year, but he left the company before anything could happen! :-( Keep your fingers crossed though, we haven't given up yet. (FWIW, I agree with you about the specs, features, and price on the 850Z - sure seems like there's nothing missing, and the price is righ

-- Dave Etchells (web@imaging-resource.com), October 02, 1999.

the 850 matches leaders like the oly 2000 and nikon 950, but about 6 months late. :) I think this market is starting to mature because the feature sets for these cameras are looking more similar all the time. Compare the Fuji 2900, toshiba m5 to the previous 3... hard to stick out from the crowd with this good competition. The good part is there are many more choices that have key features like 3x optical zoom & hot shoe. Seems like they're all using identical 2.1 or 2.3 CCD's, making image quality somewhat similar. I guess some of the key differences are size, manual control, and lens quality. Looks like epson put a real nice fast lens on this one. Might help low light performance a bit.

-- benoit (foo@bar.com), October 04, 1999.

First things first. I think anyone who uses an invalid email address to reply to a forum should be bained permently. MR FOO BAR use a real email address or GO AWAY. You obviously have the guts to dump your attitude and highly opinionated viewpoint on world! Second, Epson has not matched the Oly 2000 and Nikon 950 with the 850Z they have outdone Olympus and Nikon. The Epson 850Z has a hot shoe, USB, 49mm add on lens capability, ergonimics that are much better than the Nikon 950, camera strap mount that isn't in the way of controls like the Olympus, audio recording and playback, Type II compact flash, solar assist LCD viewfinder for outdoor shooting (I personally like this feature the most. It saves on batteries and it's self adjusting to match ambient light. I take 90% of my outdoor shots with my Epson 750Z using it.) direct print capability to there excellent Photo printers, and is cheaper.

http://www.image-acquire.com/news/99/q3/epson9933.html

The Epson 750Z already was a match for the Nikon 950 and came out 2 months before it. The following link shows that.

http://www.clubphoto.com/gallery/categories/digicam_i.php

So MR FOO BAR would you like to give us you real email address or are we going to have to strip you attitude and blinders off in the public forum?

-- Bob G. (rgreg88721@hotmail.com), October 05, 1999.

Try decaf.

-- benoit (foo@bar.com), October 05, 1999.

The 750Z was a 1.3 megapix camera, to say it was equivalent tech with oly 2k and nikon 950 is quite a stretch. The 750 also could not take an external flash, unlike the nikon and oly. Nor could it set aperture priority or shutter priority, and no manual focus, unlike the other two. It was way, way behind.

As for the 850 being better than these, you point out hot shoe and lens add on ability as being 850's strong points, but didn't you know that the nikon and oly also have add on lenses, and both take external flash? The LCD and USB features are pretty nice though. You should check out the fuji 2900, it has a very similar feature set.

I will admit being wrong in one respect, the 850z doesn't match the competition 6 months late -- it instead matches it a year late. Hasn't the 950 been out that long? Can't be very long til these manufacturers leap frog epson yet again.

Bob, no more tantrums, ok? Don't forget your medication again.. :)

-- benoit (foo@bar.com), October 07, 1999.

OK MR GUTLESS WONDER FOO BAR,

When it comes to the Epson 750Z stop looking at the numbers and start looking at the photos. Yesterday's (Oct 6) Photo of the Day on Steve's Digicam site was from an Epson 750Z. It most cases Epson 750Z performs so well it doens't need all the manual features of the Nikon 950 and Olympus C2000. As far a Nikon's external flash capability it is proprietary and troublesome, and neither the 950 or C2000 offer the convience of a hot shoe flash connection. Also the 950 came out in April of '99 as I remember and then in limited quantites. When people did get there early 950's and C2000's many of them had to send it back for repair or replacement because Olympus and Nikon rushed them to market. Epson has probably been sitting back listening to us pick apart the 950 and C2000 so that when the 850Z arrives it will be right not rushed.

P.S. The only medication you need to worry about is a real email address for you! You keep making this personal with people to get your gollies, while staying anonamous, the day may come when it backfires on you. I may have to start a petition to send to the different web site administrators to have your FOO BAR name, you are so proud of, banned.

So start being respectful of other people opinions.

-- Bob G. (rgreg88721@hotmail.com), October 07, 1999.

OK, it seems you have some unusual degree of emotional investment in Epson. Enough to hurl abuse at someone for making the simple observation that with the 850z, epson continues its tradition of matching competitors features many months late. You probably own a 750 and ordered an 850. I just hope the reason you're such an angry man doesn't have to do with these purchases. :)

The 750 does not produce pictures as nice as the modern oly/nikon in my opinion, unless you're going to compare seriously cropped pics. I have seen them side by side, and this shouldn't be very surprising since the 750 is a 1.25 megapix cam while the oly & nikon are 2.1 megapix. It's not a bad camera. The pic of the day on steves digicam doesn't mean much -- even crappy mavicas have been there. A good photographer can take great pics with mediocre equipment. Equipment is pretty far down the list in what makes a shot especially good, subject matter and composition might be higher on the list.

OK you say the 750 takes such good pics it doesn't need manual controls. I guess either epson wasted its time putting manual controls on the 850, or it takes such bad pics it needs them? :) Just teasing. Relax, it's just a camera, have fun. Decaf is your friend.

-- benoit (foo@bar.com), October 07, 1999.

The Epson 750Z only true weakness is only having 2 f-stops F2.8 and F8. That is too large of a jump in between. Under almost identical conditions the exposure system may choose an f-stop of 2.8 and a shutter speed of 1/250th of second. The next picture might be F8 and 1/60th of a second. The first picture actually had less light but a much faster shutter speed. I would have much rather had the second picture be f4 and 1/250th of second shutter. Most of the time this only shows up with outdoor action shots on overcast days. The hot shoe of the 850Z would also be nice. I am currently using slave flash on a bracket with my 750Z. There are time I want the extra flash power without the bulk of the bracket. As far as manual controls just give me the option to bias the exposure for normal and action(sports) with EV control and I am happy. I bought the 750Z early since its imager is based on the previously exsisting Epson 700. However since the imager in the Epson 850Z is new to the Epson line I am going to wait about six months after the release to check out plenty of reviews and sample pictures first. Since the imager in the 850Z is probably the same one that is in the Nikon 950 they are going to have to prove to me that they have found a way to better use it than Nikon did. One last thing about the 750Z. I have seen picture from 3 different 750Z camera. The one with a really low serial number didn't seem to have as sharp of images as the other 2 units that were produced later. My suspision is that Epson quietly make improvments on the later models. This is something to consider when comparing pictures from the 750Z and in deciding how soon to jump on buying a new model. As far as the Epson 850Z matching the features of the Nikon 950 and Olympus C2000 it most certainly has, just don't forget that it has also past them by in the process. Now it is time for the proof to be in the pudding, the picture output of the 850Z. As far as my reference to the Epson 750Z picture on Picture of the Day at Steve's Digicam site was because this photo would have been a challenge for and camera exposure and auto focus system. It was outdoors early morning pre sunrise horizion in the background with objects in silhouette and close range subject in the foreground fully illuminated by flash. There was no flash washout or hint of auto focus problems on what was a dark subject with only with the light source, other than the camera flash, being behind it. The camera could have easily focused on the skyline in the background and the flash blown out the details of the subject in the foreground. This in combination with the fact the amateur photographer had only had the camera for 3 weeks prior to taking the picture. So the expertise of the photographer was limited but his keen eye for a neat photograph and a good camera to do what he wanted with out having to spend a lot of time learning how to use it make for a good combination. Also I do know this photographer. He is a personal friend and co-worker. He purchased his Epson 750Z based on my recommendation. So I am happy that I was able to give someone advise that resulting in them being satisfied and creative with there purchase. So Mr. Foo Bar do you have close friend take your advise about digital camera and end up with award winning photos in just a few weeks? One last comment, simple observation can be done without references to decaf and taking medication. I am sure it is fun being able to say whatever you want while staying anonymous, but I have stooped to your level too long. I apoligize to the readers of this forum and web site administrators for having done so. I will now return to my usual objective self.

-- Bob G. (rgreg88721@hotmail.com), October 08, 1999.

Hi Bob, glad you've calmed down. This is your first message here that you haven't typed in all caps shouting for me to be permanently banned, or threatening me with a petition to have me permanently banned... You said above that I should be respectful of other peoples opinions. Well how respectful is it of you to shout repeatedly that the other person should be banned when they offer an opinion you don't like? Pretty out of control... The references to decaf and medication, were a lighthearted plea to get you to calm down and not have a coronary on here. Anyway I'm glad you've learned your lesson about typing in all caps and threatening people who have different opinions, I hope you continue to calmly offer your input on here, sounds like you have good ideas.

-- benoit (foo@bar.com), October 08, 1999.

I ONLY WANT ANONAMOUS PEOLPLE BANNED. If you email address is real then no problem. None real email address = none real person. I respect anyone who is a real person. How many court cases are won based on anonymous information compared to creditable and substanciated evidence? None. If you want to claim something to be your opinion put your name with it! I haven't change my opinion or desire to have you banned I am just working on the best course of action to make it happen.

-- Bob G. (rgreg88721@hotmail.com), October 08, 1999.