WACO - So you Thought Justice Might be Served??greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
This just about says it all...
Senate Keen on Espionage, Not Waco
By LAURIE KELLMAN Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Senate GOP investigators say that, despite the renewed furor over the government's role in the 1993 Waco tragedy, they're now more interested in whether the FBI bungled its investigation of alleged Chinese espionage.
``There's nothing we can do about Waco except correct procedures for the future,'' Sen. Arlen Specter, who will chair a task force into the agency's investigations on high-profile cases, said in an interview Tuesday.
``Espionage, I think, is the number one priority for the task force,'' he added. ``That's an issue of America at risk.''
``Waco's history regardless of what we find out,'' agreed Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, who will join Specter on the task force. ``In the case of the Chinese espionage and campaign contributions, there are still things you can do about it.''
But a spokesman for Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, the senior Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said several committees in Congress already were looking into how the government has investigated Chinese spying.
``This sounds like yet another endless investigation, with open-ended targets that are shifting by the week,'' said David Carle, Leahy's spokesman.
The comments by Specter and Grassley marked a retreat for Senate Republicans, who thundered that revelations last month about the government's use of force while ending the standoff with the Davidian cult demanded new investigations into the Justice Department. GOP lawmakers issued subpoenas and demanded Attorney General Janet Reno's resignation.
To address the renewed outcry over Waco, Senate Republicans chose Specter to lead a task force probe.
But the Pennsylvania Republican is making clear early on that he's more interested in using the panel's resources to examine another controversy -- the FBI's investigation into how U.S. nuclear secrets may have been leaked to China. Specter also plans to look into how prosecutors' handled political fund-raising abuses, mainly Democratic, in the 1996 election.
The public furor over the 1993 siege near Waco, Texas was reignited this summer when the FBI belatedly admitted firing potentially incendiary tear gas canisters near the Branch Davidian compound on the day the siege ended in a spectacular fire.
The FBI and Justice Department had denied for years the use of such canisters. Despite the admission, the agencies say the Davidians, and not federal agents, started the fire in which some 80 sect members died.
Republicans demanded to know whether the disclosure was part of a cover-up that cast doubt on who started the fire.
Reno was forced to appoint former Sen. John Danforth, R-Mo., to open an independent investigation. House Government Reform Committee Chairman Dan Burton, R-Ind., fired off a round of subpoenas, and Specter sent his investigators to Texas to preserve evidence.
Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott, R-Miss., urged Reno to resign, and added that the revelations gave him reason to doubt the conclusion that the Davidians started the fire.
Neither Specter nor Burton would comment on whether they have discovered evidence that would pin the blame for the fire somewhere other than on the Davidians.
More importantly, the two agreed, is the government's expanded probe into the alleged Chinese theft of secrets concerning a sophisticated nuclear warhead. The FBI had focused for nearly four years on Wen Ho Lee, a scientist at the Los Alamos laboratory in New Mexico who was fired in March for violating security rules. Lee has not been charged with any wrongdoing.
``That's a life or death matter,'' Specter said. ``The Judiciary Committee should have been doing oversight on that for a long time.''
-- Roland (email@example.com), September 29, 1999
Actually, I'd like the truth to come out in BOTH issues. But mixing the investigation is probably not a good idea. The Republicans must see this as an opportunity to get around Reno stonewalling on the campaign finance and espionage scandals, but in my opinion it will simply muddy the waters and fail to get to the bottom of either incident.
Watch six and keep your...
-- eyes_open (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 29, 1999.
Following this logic there is no point to ANY murder investigation, except perhaps in the case of a serial killer. Much more important to concentrate your efforts on copyright infringement.
-- Linda (email@example.com), September 29, 1999.
I don't expect to see the truth about anything! All they are doing is keeping our attention on something other than what is really going on. I wonder what it is? . . . .
-- winna (??@??.com), September 29, 1999.
"There's nothing we can do about Waco except correct procedures for the future." This basically is saying that the Nuremburg trials were pointless. In fact, worse than pointless, since the people who were put on trial were clearly not in any position to repeat their previous crimes (unlike the ATF, FBI, Delta Force, etc.)
-- King of Spain (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 29, 1999.
will y2k be the year of cover-ups?-how many will die-because of a LIE?
-- sad-state of affairs. (email@example.com), September 29, 1999.
I was thinking about all this last night and happened to pick up a copy of the Bible. This is what lept out at me an put my feelings, perfectly, into words.
1.O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. 2.Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud. 3.LORD, how long shall the wicked, how long shall the wicked triumph? 4.[How long] shall they utter [and] speak hard things? [and] all the workers of iniquity boast themselves? 5.They break in pieces thy people, O LORD, and afflict thine heritage. 6.They slay the widow and the stranger, and murder the fatherless. 7.Yet they say, The LORD shall not see, neither shall the God of Jacob regard [it]. 8.Understand, ye brutish among the people: and [ye] fools, when will ye be wise? 9.He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? he that formed the eye, shall he not see? 10.He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct? he that teacheth man knowledge, [shall not he know]? 11.The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they [are] vanity. 12.Blessed [is] the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law; 13.That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked. 14.For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance. 15.But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it. 16.Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? [or] who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity? 17.Unless the LORD [had been] my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence. 18.When I said, My foot slippeth; thy mercy, O LORD, held me up. 19.In the multitude of my thoughts within me thy comforts delight my soul. 20.Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law? 21.They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and condemn the innocent blood. 22.But the LORD is my defence; and my God [is] the rock of my refuge. 23.And he shall bring upon them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness; [yea], the LORD our God shall cut them off.
-- Liberty (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 29, 1999.
I think I smell cowardly flavored bullsh*t. I wonder what was in their FBI files?
-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 29, 1999.
Bottom line: The government is out of control. There are no effective checks and balances.
"Unintended Consequences" by John Ross. Reviews and ordering at
-- A (A@AisA.com), September 29, 1999.
Agree that "Unintended Consequences" is a must-read. Just wrote this synopsis for Bokonon in a thread below today, and will paste here:
Hi, Bokonon! Guess I didn't give enough of a review to this very well-thought-out tome, but I'd give it a ***** rating. Here's a better review, I hope: It is actually the story of the gun culture in America, meaning an entry into a world of people who love a sport and an artifact the way that many love other sports and artifacts. It takes one inside the mind of persons striving for perfection in a real art/craft/science all at once. As it does so, it interweaves the story of the US Government consistently and relentlessly taking one after another of the rights of these law-abiding citizens from them/us, as well as many other infringements upon our Constitutional rights in various areas. It is leading to the inexorable climax alluded to in the title. For me, it has been a read in history, government at its worst, a whole subculture that is fascinating (and gives me great comfort in knowing more about its strength!!!), and a frighteningly possible outcome. It is apropo to these sorry and scarey times. With the things you've written here, I believe you'd love the book and wish to shake the hand of the fearless author. I've read "Lucifer's Hammer" and "Patriot" this year, along with three other lesser-known authors' takes on apocalyptic times, but this is the very best of the best and puts the others far behind it. Next-best I'd rate as being "Patriot."
-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), September 29, 1999.
-- Elaine Seavey (Gods1sheep@aol.com), September 29, 1999.
I seem to remember a number of biblical injunctions against failing to dispense justice in the courts...and of Divine retribution to transgressors.
The bunker has more than one use...
-- Mad Monk (email@example.com), September 29, 1999.
I would imagine that there should be a way for Citizens to bring forward charges to the United Nothing that Janet Reno and Bill Clinton should be charged with child murder and political cleansing.
(If the UN turns it down, just that much more ammo to get rid of it as ineffective and wasteful.)
-- Ann Y Body (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 29, 1999.