I have recently been involved in discussion with several non-instrumentalists who have said that I am not a Christian because I use instruments in worship. Upon challenging their position from scripture, non could answer where in the Bible they could point out their position. Whilst being pretty firm with their position, I want to be as Jesus in loving them and seeking to lead them to Biblical truth, as with any other "cult" group. I do consider non-instrumentalism to be cultic because they add to the Bible what it is to be a Christian, namely, you cannot play an instrument in worship and be a Christian, indeed, I will go to hell because of it according to some!

-- Anonymous, September 28, 1999

Answers

Ian......

Don't let the bad attitudes of some......influence your sentiments about the Church of Christ.

Those with the attitude that "all instrumentalists are going to hell"....are by far not the majority in their churches. In fact, many in the "nons" church are there....because they are fed up with the liberalism in our churches. Got to admit.....I've been tempted a couple of times.

As I said on another thread.......I have had numerous ones of them join churches where I was preaching.....one has even gone on to Ozark Bible College to prepare for the ministry.

Each one of them has always made it clear that they "preferred" non- instrumental music.....but for them....the use of the instrument was not a test of fellowship.

I might point out that this was the exact view of the Campbell's and the Restoration movement prior to the Civil War. Churches of both persuasions freely fellowshipped together. Campbell, himself a non- instrumentalist (mostly because of his Presbyterian background)....worshipped and preached in churches with and without the instrument.

Again, my point being, don't make "broad brush strokes" as you chastise an entire movement.....especially when I consider each of them my brothers and sisters in Christ.

One more thing.....your use of the word "cult" is wrong on two counts.....

1) A cult is not defined as "someone who adds to the plan of salvation." Granted....that is the evangelical definition. In fact, evagelicals would refer to the Christian Church as a cult because we make baptism essential for salvation (at least most of us do).

A proper, biblical definition of cult is......a) Any group that relies on continuing revelation...i.e., does not believe revelation ended with the apostles; b) Any group that is dependant on one dynamic personality.

2) The second thing I want to say to you is that using the word "cult" (especially when it does not apply....as it does not to our brothers in the non-instrumental church).....does nothing to enhance dialog. It is a caustic term designed to degrade and should only be reserved for those who deserve the title (as explained above).

Though I am not a non instrumetalist.....I know some who read this board. I think you would be wise to withdraw your use of the term and offer your apologies.

If you are unwilling to do that....then at least let me say to my non- instrumental brothers.....Ian's view (as the judgmental "nons" he spoke of)....does not represent the view of the majority of us.

Respectfully Submitted,

-- Anonymous, October 01, 1999

Ian,

Let me caution you first to not "get in over your head." Just because you have not run into any who have been able to give you good Bible answers to their positions does not mean that there are not any good Bible answers to their positions. I too, have for a few years now been quite extensively involved in on-going discussions and debates with those in the a capella tradition of the Restoration Movement. You could, as Darth Vader would say, be in danger of "underestimating the power of their side." The position they hold to is not so clear- cut as you may think. It is not an issue that is simply about whether or not it is wrong to use a piano in worship, the issue is much deeper than that. It is one that deals with hermeneutics, with Biblical inspiration, with Apostolic tradition, with historicity, and in many of their minds with soteriology. I would simply offer this piece of advice - study up on it. Learn the reasons for their positions. However "Astray" you may deem them because of their stance, it is one that they hold to because their primary goal is to uphold the integrity of the Word of God. And that in and of itself is honorable.

-- Anonymous, September 28, 1999

For more on this topic, see the other thread entitled: "Would you give up your piano for the sake of Unity?"

-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999

So Demastus will not think no one answers from the Christian Church (Disciples), here I go. I grew up in the non instrumental Churches of Christ, schools, etc. Preached for years. Then I preached for an Independent Christian Church, and am now aligning with a Disciples church in Springfield, Missouri. Part of my own journey is the instrument arguments. I have researched this for years, have lots of notes and documentation, and I find the non-instrumental argument to be very, very weak. Ian does not need to worry about going to hell for using instruments. Would be glad to email anyone some notes I have put together.

Doug Jantz

-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999

Dear Brother Ian,

I can appreciate what you are going through. Back in Ohio I had a wonderful fellowship with them, In fact I had an open forum dialogue in one of their congregations and met with several of their Ministerial fellowships. There are many areas as I am sure you have found out, that lead into a maze regarding any subject. The main area I got into discussion was on "Christian Worship"

The piano issue sort of went by the board once we got to the heart of their problem, regarding the whole subject of "Worship" in the Scripture and "Acts of Worship" They cant find it in Scripture, cuz it isnt there. But you will find that even when boxed in a corner, many will not practice what they preach and honestly follow only what scripture teaches. Most of the Preachers I have met though, are really personally dedicated to the Lord, just got emotionally locked into the instrument thing. Holler if I can help. God Bless.

-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999

Thank you brother Gabbard:

As you know, I cannot in good conscience use an instrument of music in the worship. When I read the comments calling those of us who do not use the instrument in worship a "cult" I was truly hurt. I appreciate your setting the record strait. I will also offer, on behalf of the majority among us, an apology for those who do not believe that anyone can be a Christian and worship with an instrument. To be perfectly honest I have never met any that so believe but I have known many with such caustic attitudes that I can see how some one could have a conversation with them and draw such a conclusion. If such a one were to make such comments on this thread I would be the first to correct him if such were possible.

I appreciate you and admire you greatly for your honesty and even handed way of dealing with those who disagree with you. Discussing the word of God with you is a great pleasure and benefit to all who engage you. I for one, have benefited often from your judicious comments. You have certianly helped me in this forum and I am thankful to our Lord for the fellowship that we have in the furtherance of the gospel of Christ. Such fellowship is made much easier by your Christian attitude and demeanor. I am certian that we may never agree about this use of instruments in the worship of God but our Lord will notice our efforts to be in fellowship as much as possible as brothers in Christ our blessed Lord. I consider you and all brethren like you, who have been obedient to the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world, as Christians. I see you as eminently a Christian. We my not agree but I do hold that you are in Christ and are my brother. And what a fair, honest, and caring brother you are indeed!

Thank you again for clearing up this matter of our being called a "cult". It was indeed an extremely unjust accusation and painful in that it came from someone that I would consider my brother in Christ. You have eased that pain, brother, and I thank the Lord for you. Thank you so much, brother.

I pray that our Lord will abide with you and that the The Holy Spirit will strengthen your spirit in the inward man that you might have many years of faithful service in His kingdom and that one day we can all sing a "New Song of the Lamb" before the throne of God and cast our crowns down at His feet and together worship Him who "loved us and bought us with His pecious blood, and is now seated at the right hand of God awaiting the day when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that, "Christ is Lord" to the glory of God the Father.

Your brother in Christ,

E. Lee Saffold

-- Anonymous, October 01, 1999

Ian,

As a young music minister growing up in a very conservative Baptist church, I had many questions on this subject. The entire subject on certain levels reminds me of an Apple Jacks commercial on t.v. The kids can't explain why they like Apple Jacks... They just do.

That church, which my parents still attend, tried to bring in more than just a piano, and many members of the church balked at the idea. Not exactly non-instrumentalism, but here's where I'm going with this. There are some who may not have a biblical reference for why they don't have intruments in worship.. they just don't like it.

Some might take it back in church history to the days of the Calvanist movement when they broke from the Anglican church. In order to be as far removed from the Anglican and Roman Catholic church as possible. Both the bigger sects used choirs and orchestras and organs and such, so in order to stay as far away as possible, the Calvanists chose to sing one melody line only, and did it without instruments of any kind.

There are also those that won't use instruments in worship because of the line of thinking that music is alive and sentient. Each type of music has it's own "vibe", if you will, that it puts out and uses to effect each person differently. Therefore, the twang of the guitar, the beat of the drums, and the thumping of the keys on the piano can cause people (especially new christians) to turn from God and return to their wicked ways. Therefore, they choose to not have instruments at all, as they are being used by the evil one for his purpose alone.

I am not of that school of thought, and in fact am quite happy to say that my church is very much into the use of any and all instruments during worship. I am a bass guitar/keyboard player, and I have two acoustic guitars, an electric guitar, drums, and auxiliary percussion as well as three singers besides myself. Some would ask "why so much stuff for worship?" The answer to that question is simple. I have people that have a desire to help in worship because it gives them a purpose in the church other than simply coming to church on Sunday and sitting in the congregation. It also allows them to give back even the tiniest portion of what God has given them, and frankly, allows some of them (myself included) to worship freely.

Yes, contemporary music styles and more instruments can tend to highten the "emotional" level of worship, but as a fellow worship leader pointed out to me, "people want to be entertained, and while worship is not meant to be entertainment, you've got to feed people's carnal need to be drawn in and entertained in order to satisfy them enough to get them into the throneroom of God". I tend to agree in most situations. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that there's a wrong way to worship, and for some, acapella worship works best. It best satisfies that need inside that tunes them into worship and what God has planned for them that service.

Unfortunately, that doesn't always work with today's youth, which is what my church is really focusing on. We desire to reach the young people that have had little or no church experience. In order to appeal to that sect of the population, we've got to sound like something they've heard on the radio. To that end, we've got all the intruments listed above. It's effective. Nine times out of Ten the comment cards have worship listed on the top three reasons newcommers come back each week. We've only been in existence for eight months, and we've grown from a core group of fourteen to a consistent morning service of eighty or more. Are instruments effective and useful in worship? I believe so.

Peace of Christ to you, J. Edward Albert - Music Minister - New Community Christian Church, Salina Kansas

-- Anonymous, October 09, 1999

In response to the last writer herin, A question accured to me, cus I have been pondering the idea of entertainment to bring them in or keep them in. That is "Should or should not everything we do in our Worshippers service edify?" I tend to believe that if it doesnt edify we may have a problem.When I use the word edify, I do not relate that an emotional kick. Granted that emotions have a part, but are not necessarily indicators that one is edified. When we sing, shouldnt we be careful that we sing songs that do edify, through proclaiming truth, not just go through the gymnastics. I would really like to hear some various thoughts on that, but perhaps I overstepped my bounds on this. Just my response to preceeding comments. Seems like one thing always leads to another. Preach the Word. Bro. Jack

-- Anonymous, October 12, 1999