If you have to shoot, there is no other option, what aiming point would you choose? Head? Chest? Stomach? Legs?

Assume that you can hit what you are shooting at, a head shot is death, a chest shot can kill but might just cause massive trama and 1-2 hour death with out paramedic, stomach is slower, will stop most attacks but death is caused in 24-48 hours without medical attention, Legs may not stop the attack. Assume that you want to stop the intruder and you are not using a shot gun.

If the rollover is bad, 911 is out= "not in sight", then a belly shot can be a deadly as a head shot....

Where are you going to aim?

-- I don't want (bad@news.com), September 15, 1999

Answers

All I have in here is a 'blowgun', but maybe if I shoot for the soft spot on top of the head?

-- Porky (Porky@in.cellblockD), September 15, 1999.

You may have just caught me on the wrong day (in fact, you have -- tough) but get yourself and your stupid f**king question about your fantasy killing tendencies out of our forum.

You might be a sincere person in other ways and on any other day you and I might have intersected differently, but right now you just look to me like a disease, and I hope I don't catch you.

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), September 15, 1999.

I took my gun handling training through a sheriff's department, it was a self-defense class. The best place to hit and kill someone is in the stomach because that's where the most damage can be done. The head would be a harder target to hit. If you hit them in the legs, they'll survive and what are your options then? Our targets were all set up for the stomach area and that's where I practice shooting.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 15, 1999.

I hate to have to be the one to give you the 'bad news'.

But, here it is:

You put the wrong caliber cartridge in a non-functional rifle. Then you aimed it off-target and as luck would have it, the rifle blew up in your face.

Try aiming a little closer to Usenet (the discussion group thingy).

Happy hunting.

and Have a nice day.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), September 15, 1999.

....but then we heard the Troll siren screaming when we read the title of the thread, didn't we?

--wearing a sheet allows She to carry larger weapons concealed.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), September 15, 1999.

Why is it okay for "Gun Nut Question" a few threads below ask questions about guns and not get flamed, but "I don't want," asks the best place to shoot it and he/she gets blasted. You people are nothing but a bunch of frinking hypocrites.

-- calling you out (calling you out@callingyour putt.com), September 15, 1999.

What evidence do you have that I like the gun nut post any better than this one? Logic child. And BTW, it's "frigging". (Troll Sign, number something or other: They spell words creatively.)

--not "you people", but She in the sheet.

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), September 15, 1999.

I'll do one better, "fu*king,". Let's see you Donna go down to the gun thread and post something flaming there. I like the word frinking, it just rolls right off my tongue. Your a troll!

-- calling you out (callingyouout@callingyououttt.com), September 15, 1999.

OK, HERE COMES ANSWER NUMBER TWO:

"Go for the head." (per Gordon Liddy)

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), September 15, 1999.

IMHO

I would think that if a person has a gun like the gentleman above does and considers that he may have to use it he should look for proffessional advice and training rather than ask on this forum. If there are skilled killers on the forum they would never tell a newbie with a gun how to kill a person.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), September 15, 1999.

How many different ways can you kill a person with a gun? I mean you have a gun and bullets. You shoot the gun and the bullet hits the person and (1) injures the person or (2) kills the person. It doesn't take a killer to figure this one out.

-- don't ask (don'task@don'taskkk.com), September 15, 1999.

I am aiming to wound, leg seems a good way to go, dig out the shot, doctor them up, good worker after cured, that is if the person servives. If not into the ground they go.Sure would be a waste of a good worker.

-- ET (bneville@zebra.net), September 15, 1999.

Gee, while we're on this subject, should you aim differently if you're defending your food, than if you're hunting your food? Assume those defending the food you are hunting are also armed. Does that change the optimum point of aim?

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), September 15, 1999.

The worker will find a way to get even. If you shot him in the leg and shattered his bone, he isn't going to be much help to you. He's going to eat all your food, drink all your water, and when he's better, he's going to do you in. Better hope that he dies from infection soon.

-- don't ask (don'task@don'taskkk.com), September 15, 1999.

OK, HERE COMES ANSWER NUMBER THREE:

Kill 'em with kindness.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), September 15, 1999.

Back to the original question, "If you have to shoot, there is no other option,..."

There is always another option. Planning and personal awareness of threats helps to keep your options open. There are sources of information concerning these types of issues and how to prepare, train, etc.

You should avoid a shooting situation in all cases. You do that by planning, preparation and awareness. Not by pulling a trigger.

Pulling a trigger causes trouble, not the least of which is noise. Noise will bring attention to yourself. And pulling the trigger will give your conscience a sincerely difficult problem to deal with for the rest of your life.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), September 15, 1999.

That's a good question Flint. I wouldn't aim any differently if I were defending my food. Always assume those you are hunting who have the food are armed. Aren't you? However, the latter is a totally different thread would you like to start one?

The question was: "If there was no choice, Where are you going to aim? Just answer the question!

-- don't ask (don'task@don'taskkk.com), September 15, 1999.

God! Intelligence struggles against a thread like this, but most of you have answered with consummately alive minds against the dead hand of this -- Hollywood horror scenario. How do you do it? Thank you.

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), September 15, 1999.

If I kill them with kindness, they'll kill me just because I am kind. If you had a choice between you or them are you saying that you would let them kill you first?

-- don't ask (don'task@don'taskkk.com), September 15, 1999.

This works for me, hope it helps. For your garden variety intruder i like to shoot him in the eye a la Moe Green. Young kids usually one shot to the forehead, no muss no fuss. If the kid is handicapped I shoot him/her in whatever works. A cripple kid would be shot in the arms. If the kid is real young or a quadraplegic that's a tough one because you don't want to waste a bullet and since they are used to suffering I think it's all right to beat the crap out of them. If the intruder is white trash just set their beanie baby on fire and they'll leave quietly.

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@worldnet.att.net), September 15, 1999.

BTW, 'twas a bad day because I was not-so-subtly threatened recently by a crazy (paranoid. drunk?) woman, an office neighbor I've hardly ever spoken to, who claims to keep a gun across the hall from my office intended for -- me. I don't work nights anymore, and days I make sure I have lots of company around. Sorry for my personal intrusion into others' nightmares; is it over-reacting if it's your one-and-only life someone has mentioned taking? (and thanks for the oppty to vent; I'll work my way back to a "normal" operating mode in a couple days...)

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), September 15, 1999.

Truly, to follow JBD on a thread; I have truly arrived in the lower astral. I'm heading for another GOW (glass of wine) and hope you've all recovered in the morning from having slogged through our sewage...

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), September 15, 1999.

Because you apologized and said you were sorry, I have found it deep within my heart to forgive you for your irritable mood. Now go sit down, put your feet up and relax. Get a good nights sleep, and carry a gun with you to work, you never know what that deranged woman will do next. I mean she could go postal and start shooting up the place, and there you are, pinned under a desk and she's letting the bullets fly! Now just relax, everything will be okay.

-- don't ask (don'task@don'traskkk.com), September 15, 1999.

For goodness' sake,..Jimmy? Is that really you? LOL

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), September 15, 1999.

Folks you have not got it yet. Don't kill! in the long run you need workers. Fields have to be plowed. It take alot workers to produce food to feed people. Soup can go a long way to feed people and cheap too. Have a little heart, life is not to be taken litely. Everone is someones love one it could be your broughter or sister, mother or father. Think first don't act until there is no other chose. WE the people have to come throught this together. If you go crazy, you will be a harm to all. Use your brain look ,listen,think,Plain!

-- ET (bneville@zebra.net), September 15, 1999.

---dont ask, asked: "If I kill them with kindness, they'll kill me just because I am kind. If you had a choice between you or them are you saying that you would let them kill you first?"

No, I'm not going tell you that.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), September 15, 1999.

How about toss those dumb guns away? Just a suggestion.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), September 16, 1999.

Shoot to kill! Center of the chest for most will give the best chance of striking your adversary. In a Y2K environment, almost any hit other than a grazing shot will eventually prove fatal with zero medical care and infection. In most combat environments even a blown off finger would eventually lead to death!

-- (snowleopard6@webtv.net), September 16, 1999.

Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts - "lo I am with you even until the end of times."

-- don't ask (don'task@don'taskkk.com), September 16, 1999.

The reason Liddy says go for the head is that if your target is wearing body armor and you got a lightweight gun, he's gonna keep coming with a body shot. OTH, a head shot is much more difficult.

Forget trying for a leg or arm -- you're not Annie Oakley (or Henry Bowman -- from the book "Unintended Consequences")

-- A (A@AisA.com), September 16, 1999.

First two rounds center of mass. confirms the sight picture. 3 and 4 go to the head, if they are still advancing (40 S&W even with armor SHOULD slow em down enuff for a decent head shot).

Night Train

-- jes' a very careful footballer (nighttr@in.lane), September 16, 1999.

jor-el,

You need to talk to the police. Don't take this lightly (obviously). A threat to kill IS a legal issue. You should also talk to your company and ask that the harrassment stop and that the person's desk/locker be checked. Why put up with this? Its called terrorizing.

If this person is a substance abuser they are not in control of themselves.

You might say that this is a situation in which going to authority would only provoke the situation. It may. But you must consider what will disuade this person. If going to authority would not help then try to find another job.

-- ..- (dit@dot.dash), September 16, 1999.

Who are you kidding, they're usable after they're gone. They make a dandy fertilizer!

-- Save the watches the boots are ruined (deep@init.com), September 16, 1999.

Snowleopard is right. If it becomes necessary to shoot, you should shoot to kill. Anything less could mean death for you and your family. The idea that they could be "workers" is ludicrous. Someone you just shot is never going to be willing to work for you, and if you force them, they'll just wait until your back is turned before they kill you and your family and take everything you have worked for. Bad idea.

If you're not prepared to kill, then be prepared to die.

-- (its@coming.soon), September 16, 1999.

I_don't_want

Train to fire two rounds to the center of mass, preferably the upper torso. Then place a shot in the attackers head if they are still coming. You will fight like you train. So figure out how to fight and train accordingly. Note that some people advocate point shooting, which means that you point the gun and shoot without using the sights. There is some real world experience to back up the use of this technique at close range. I train to go to point shot first and if the target is farther away I transition to more acurate aimed shot. (Remember, it's your bullet. Your responsible for where it lands). That allows me to bring my gun to bear in the most dangerous condition (attacker close) and then quickly move to aquiring a farther target.

The torso is easeir to hit in a high stress situation. If you want to see how you will be shooting during a stressfull situation do all the push ups that you can then immediatly try to point and fire you gun (loaded with a snap cap). You will be shaking that much when you preceive danger due to adrenelne(sp?). Training mitigates this.

Try reading "Shoot to Live" by Col. Rex Applegate, and the Stressfire books by Massad Ayoob. Ayoob also put's out some good videos on the subject. And before you do any of this, take a course on gun safty by the NRA. The NRA teaches the majority of safty and gun handling courses in the country.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), September 16, 1999.

Oh. And don't take fire arms advice from people who want to play Ghandi while they're families are being attacked. These people are called "victims".

(Apologies to Ghandi who wouldn't have stood for it either).

Keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), September 16, 1999.

Who care's about trollish motivations?If it has come down to the situation that you are pointing a gun at someone,aim at center mass and shoot till the bad falls down or you run out of bullets.Simple self-defence tactics.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), September 16, 1999.

Shoot for the pelvic bone between the hip and the grion. You shatter that bone and the "bad guy" goes down on his next step, effectivly taking him out of the game and stops his advance toward you or your loved ones. It most likely will not kill, and may still be a threat, but it does change the odds some what.

Another plus is when a guy sees you pointing a gun at his "little friend" this will get his attention faster than pointing it at his head and ranting like a looney, guys are funny like that.

-- www (www@www.cxom), September 16, 1999.

gun rule #1.never point a gun at something you do not intend to DESTROY,not wound.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), September 16, 1999.

JO-REL,

Maybe if you had an earth name and weren't using the name of Superman's dad people wouldn't feel they have to carry side arms in your presence. BTW how's a guy who thinks he's from Krypton come off dissing the glazemeister?

-- Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts (jim1bets@worldnet.att.net), September 16, 1999.

Bravado thread. My guess is that the reality of popping and watching 'em fall would make you throw up. Did me. Whatever the circumstance try to make friends. Your life will be better afterward even if you die trying.

-- troopee who (shot@the.middle), September 17, 1999.

Hugs and kisses! I love you. Come into my abode. Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow ye shall die. I will become your slave and then your back stabber. Pick your destiny.

-- destiny (destiny@destinnny.com), September 17, 1999.

Bravado thread. My guess is that the reality of popping and watching 'em fall would make you throw up. Did me.

At least you'd still be alive, throwing up or not.

Whatever the circumstance try to make friends. Your life will be better afterward even if you die trying.

Even if it means letting your family die too? Gee, what a great idea. At least you tried to make friends. Why even bother to prepare at all?

-- (its@coming.soon), September 17, 1999.