I have been interested in the discussions here regarding dealing with family members and other 'guests' that end up in your home long term. Following this are the rules I have come up with so far. If you'd like to comment or make suggestions, please do.

As for family and refuges, allow me to detail what is probable in our home. Any constructive thoughts on dealing with this would be appreciated.

First of all, invited guests. There is a couple from a neighboring state that has a standing invitation. They and their kids are welcome. Should they show up the couple will get a bedroom and their kids will be thrown kicking and screaming in with ours. While they are friends, more importantly they have alternative medical skills (including herbalist) that we covet greatly. These people are a long shot unless it gets real bad. Also invited is wifeys Sister #1. She'll work for her keep without expecting something for nothing. She'll get what room is available. Likely a part of the basement because she won't mind tending the stove and I can trust her with supplies. (Very nice finished walkout basement)

Also a long shot but another couple is welcome, also from out of state. They have multiple skills and are simpatico. They would probably get our camper as their home. That could be considered living well if it doesn't get too cold.

And, hoping they won't show but fearing they will.... Are: My wifes parents and her other sister along with her hubby and kid.

This is where it gets bad. The parents are older. Wifes father has many health problems and is incapable of helping in any way including mentally. He needs a constant babysitter. Wifes mother has bad heart, LOTS of other medical problems, bad attitude, a real problem with telling the truth, and likes family strife. (hint: The family traditional greeting is "Whats wrong?" instead of hello).

And now it gets worse. Sister #2. I refer to her as the wicked witch of the North but that's actually being unkind to the original witch who was much more pleasant. I have no doubt she would demand the main bedroom and also demand to be waited on hand and foot. Her idea of work is telling everyone else what to do. Her hubby will work but .... I have reservations. Their kid.... it's really sad. She wouldn't go through childbirth so they adopted. Her choice was a fetal alcohol syndrome crack cocaine baby whose mother was a prostitute and an addict, and yes, he does carry the aids virus. Despite all this he's probably better adjusted than her, but barely. When we have him he behaves. I wouldn't turn him lose with a knife near his 'mother' though. If they show up they get part of the garage, which they will transform to living quarters via the magic of plastic sheeting and a staple gun. They want fancier then they can provide it. The boy can stay with the other kids.

We are not planning on others besides these but are preparing as if there will be.

Question I have been asking myself lately.... Could I chuck Sister #2 out on her butt along with her hubby? Yes, if it came down to it. I'd keep the kid.

The most likely scenario in my mind is a hard depression. If that happens then we'll need help paying the bills and mortgage. That won't happen with her folks, they'll just be a drain. Her mother might be able to cook and clean a bit, that's it. Sis #1 will work at whatever she has to, and if it's not outside the home she'll do chores and earn her keep. Sis #2 has no skills suitable to a depression type world. She sells computers to politicians and such, and thinks Bill Gates is God. Frankly I don't expect either her or hubby to contribute towards expenses if they are allowed to stay. They have been in family situations before where expenses were shared and everyone else always seemed to get screwed. One of their major sources of income seems to be suing people after car accidents.

The other people mentioned I feel would chip in with both income and hard work, as well as individual skills.

Would our house have rules? YOU BETCHA! The rough draft is below. I fully expect, with this bunch, that the limits would be tested at least once if not weekly.

There are other options, But I won't go into them. Let your imagination wander.

As soon as it looks like there is any likelyhood they'll be appearing here, then the rules will be delivered to them. They'll have to agree going into the deal on exactly what they mean. The guests of our choice will understand these rules at once and agree with them. Her family..... I just don't know if they'll ever understand them at all.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

HOUSE RULES (first draft) 1) Art is King, Kim is Queen. This is NOT a democracy. We make the rules. 2) If there is ever any doubt or any question, refer to rule #1. This is not a joke, this is not funny, this is law in this home. 3) NOBODY rides for free. Anyone who expects to take shelter in our home had better plan on bringing supplies, cash, knowledge, skills, and/or hard labor. No work, no eat. Exceptions may be made for the infirm and young at the King and Queens pleasure. 4) Everyone will stand either night watch or day watch when required. Failing in this duty is a serious offense and may result in expulsion without assets. Ditto with household chores and garden work. 5) Supplies will be distributed at the King and Queens pleasure. Personal comfort will be a minor consideration no matter how much anyone complains. If you want something special go earn it. Anyone caught pilfering supplies from the household will be lucky to skid once on their way out the door. 6) Actively or purposefully causing discord and animosity may result in expulsion. Immediately. Good manners and respect will be displayed at all times. If you regard pissing people off as fun you had better just keep moving because you won't be here long. 7) The security of the household is paramount. Among other things this means that nobody discusses household matters with outsiders. Outsiders are defined as anybody the King or Queen has not passed judgment on and pronounced worthy. Breaking this rule may result in the offender instantly becoming an outsider. Outsiders do not get hot food, do not sleep warm, do not get protection. Once out, there is no way back in. Ever.

8) Parents are completely responsible for their children in all things.

9) On the matter of weapons, refer directly to rule #1. Anybody who endangers the home by either having a weapon when they shouldn't or not having one when they should is out the door.

10) This is a no smoking house by order of the Royal Family. If you are addicted to cigarettes get used to the porch. The same rule applies to strong perfume or other toiletries. If you stink, you stay outside till you don't.

11) Drinking to excess is discouraged. Nobody will drink alcohol of any kind when on watch or within 8 hours before.

12) Everybody will log their planned travels and whereabouts at all times. The first time we have to search for someone to assure their safety because they didn't file a travel plan will be the last time we search for them. Parents take note of this.

-- Art Welling (artw@lancnews.infi.net), September 13, 1999

Answers

Darn! Sorry about the formating on that.

-- Art Welling (artw@lancnews.infi.net), September 13, 1999.

Well, Art. Good luck.

You mention your wife's kinfolks; does she feel the same way you do about her own family?

Your rules are great, just what I would draft. If push comes to shove and things do, indeed, get bad, are you and your wife truly committed to enforcing them.

Of course, if you don't, you'll have chaos and anarchy.

Thanks again, Art. I think I'll copy, paste and print out your rules, because we'll probably have some folks show up, too.

-- Vic (rdrunner@internetwork.net), September 13, 1999.

We are considering the same potential-visitor situation, and plan to accept certain people if they ask. We've discussed adding a combination-lock to both sides of the pantry door (which is also the garage). Coming in from the garage, it's extra security for the house (of course, if Y2k is more than BITR, the main garage door will be very secure and not a way into the house, at all). Coming out from the house, it's pilfer protection for the pantry. Have that in place BEFORE any "guests" arrive, and you don't have to do a song-and-dance about locking the door later.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), September 13, 1999.

In somewhat the same situation, but with more agreeable relatives... The joker could be two potential future parents-in-law of one of my daughters...who don't speak English. (We speak little/none of their native language!) On the other hand, she could be valuable in helping with ethnic cooking. He is reportedly a skilled mechanic. They may be visiting us at year end from a high risk country.

In an extended household, cooperation is necessary. But dealing with cooperating adults, I plan on working out a leadership plan which allows for an adult council (which I can override in emergency) to deal with things like chore assignments, etc. It's a risk, I admit, but would probably generate better, willing cooperation.

The no work, no eat rule will be required in the long term. If it is a depression, we'll have to pull together.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), September 13, 1999.

We've already started taking boarders. One is a young adult relative we just met last year. Her mental problems have become apparent, but she can and does help when told to do so. The other is another relative, well known, but odd. Both of these adults showed up with an amazing assortments of children's toys, which they demand space for. We oblige, but if we need space for others to move in, the toys will be put in a barn until we need barn space too. The girl announced she would starve with 'nicer' relatives before she would allow her toys to be touched. We said we understood perfectly and suggested she move the toys there in advance. She shut up.

I can tell you that incorporating adults is not easy. At times when I'd really like to give in to anger but don't, it turns out for the best. They're trying to get along. When others arrive, they will be given as much personal space as we can find for them. One family we very much want here will get a bedroom. A set of elderly relatives will get another bedroom. All of our children will sleep in our bedroom. I'm looking for places to ... you know...and ideas are appreciated.

I think when and if things get bad, everyone here will pull together out of enlightened self-interest if for no better reason. There may be no better reason.

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), September 13, 1999.

What does my wife think? Intelectually she agree's. Emotionally she's got the family thing going. We've discussed it and it may come down to me making that decision because she's too close. Can we/she stick to that? Don't know.

-- Art (artw@lancnews.infi.net), September 13, 1999.

Helen, does your barn have a loft? Barn lofts are a traditional place to...you know...If the ladder is moveable you could pull it up after you to insure privacy.

-- biker (y2kbiker@worldnet.att.net), September 13, 1999.

I've had occasion to live with other relatives and they with me over the years. Adult children, a sister, a brother....it's no fun and the limits seem to get pushed without anyone even really trying. It could be that my entire family of origin are strong willed independent people who do not easily adapt to someone else being in cotntrol of even small aspects of their lives. But I figure that this is a widespread problem. Since my husband and I are just now finding our privacy again (after having spent 10 of our 15 married years with someone living with us) we do not relish the idea of having anyone move in on us. My daughter and her children are welcome; she has been actively preparing and helping me to clean and rearrange the house during this year. My son and his wife are welcome; they also are preparing somewhat and although I doubt they will come here, they might think twice about being alone. My sister who has moved closer to her children will probably not come back this way; I hope she doesn't...she will expect some kind of prime location and deference in the household that she will not get. and then we'll have trouble.

All of our elderly parents have died (3 of them in the past two years). Although we miss them, we are very relieved we will not have this to deal with.

The children are the most adaptable...the young adults tend to be fairly adaptable...it's us older mid-life folks who will have serious control issues....especially when others invade our own homes.

-- Shelia (Shelia@active-stream.com), September 13, 1999.

The problem with a bunch of adults in one household beside the control issue is that none of us are telepathic. We have routines with our kids that these two young adults apparently did not grow up with, and we've had to stop and explain the whys behind the rituals. They do things that we haven't seen before and think it's normal.

Hygiene appears to be a matter of divergent opinion...and I will not tolerate less than a godly form of cleanliness. We've had some minor arguments. I won.

Food and sharing are a problem. The boy wolfs down whatever is put in front of him with no complaint. The girl expected special food for herself and has had to learn that we all eat from one pot. She started trying to hide food in her room and was invaded by mice. We had to explicitly forbid food outside of the kitchen/dining area. Both the boy and the girl (adults!) habitually buy snacks for themselves and don't share with our kids. We're letting this go in view that it will stop if things are bad.

The food in a commune situation will be locked up. No exceptions.

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), September 14, 1999.

biker -- It's been years since we ... used ... the barn. :)

-- helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), September 14, 1999.

I need some help in this area too. The only other person in my extended family that is doing any preparing at all is my father. He owns some land 25 miles south of town (200,000 pop). I have prepared with food, solar, generator, camping stuff, defense gear, etc. and have lots of knowledge and skills. However we live in town. My mother in law has a nice lake house 40 miles north. My mother in law's house has doctors for neighbors. My father's cabin has rural poor for neighbors. If we are the refugees in this family but we are the only ones with serious preparations, how do we go about fiting-in with a family that has a rural shelter but no food? My wife says that since we are the outsiders then we should divide what we have struggled to acquire over the last year and share with all. I try to explain to her that if we do that then our year's supply of food is gone in a week (other family members). I'm really struggling with this. Worst case we could try to tough it out in the woods, but I know we will need a group to get through. We have tried for a year to get the rest to prepare but they give us the old 'we don't need to prepare. We know you are preparing'. So, what about the situation where the refugees are the only ones who are prepared???

-- Dennis (b01d10w51@mindspring.com), September 14, 1999.

Dennis -- go with your father.

-- Dennis (sstaten@fullnet.net), September 14, 1999.

King Art

In lieu of knigths of the round table, you may have to resort to using non-lethal means to overcome unruly guests. Might I suggest some mace and a few good stun guns. We consider it bad form to shoot ones inlaws in my kingdom, and when the traditional methods of enforcings one's royal edicts are unavailable (police, lawyers, etc...) you may have to resort to limited force. Unruly know-it-all family may not believe that you will use a gun on them (and I hope they are right), and explosives are too messy. Add some stun guns, batteries and a solor charger to your arms room.

Pray watch your hind quaters, and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), September 15, 1999.

Art and Kim

You may want to reconsider naming yourself royalty....traditionally this also means that you have the obligation to protect your subjects in times of war and store food to feed them in times of famine. This was the MAIN reason subject stayed around farming the fields outside the castle.

One thing that might help get rid of a few unwanted relatives: If things are so bad in their neighborhood that they are staying with you that means it is worse in poorer denser neighborhoods. A vacant home in the suburbs is likely to get squatted. Your relatives might want to get back to defend their home.

Rather than king of the house, consider having some kind of "executive committee" consisting of about 1/2 of the adults in the house. Discussion is usually valuable.

-- Thom Gilligan (thomgill@eznet.net), September 15, 1999.

While it may be me and mine that seek refuge elsewhere if things go badly here in the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan area, were I to take others into my home (family, relatives, friends, or strangers), I hope that I would have a proper compassion for their losses and fears. I would hope to not be afraid to acknowledge their losses, to express my shock and sadness over their misfortunes, to express my sympathy for their sadnesses, to talk to them about their losses and scattered hopes. I would hope that my heart would ache for them and my tears would fall when their tears fell and that I would not be afraid to recount memories of the things they used to have and how things used to be for them. I would hope to not ignore (or to not be disinterested in) special qualities, interests, and virtues that they had before things had gotten rough. I would hope to envision how their knowledge and skills could be useful and restore a life or way of life now disrupted for them. I would hope to remind them that I am a friend. I would hope to speak about the things that I admire in them, to learn from them, and to diligently find pleasure and joy in their company. I would hope not to say heartless and facetious things that minimized their pain, sorrows, and disappointments. I would hope to never say, "You must get on with your life" or " You should be thankful for the good years". I would hope to never have to say to anyone, "It's time for you to go!"

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 16, 1999.

eyes_open

If I remember correctly, I have found your thoughts to be thoughtful, elsewhere.

Violence begets violence. Your plot to employ such manipulative and unconscionable means, suggests to me that you're a fearful, dangerous, and abusive person. To be fair, I can imagine that perhaps you have good reason to greatly fear those who may come to join you during a rough time. If you have good reason to fear those people, lay low, draw tight the shades, and don't open that door! Send them a box of goodies now -- if you have any love for them. And, good luck to you!

Sincerely Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 16, 1999.

Thank you so much Stan, for reminding us to be thoughtful of what they may be going through too. We will all be on edge if we're cramped in with friends and family for long periods of time, but a bit of love and compassion and empathy may certainly help us bond.

A friend told me that you she believes that those who are preparing have been called by God to do so. I think I feel that way too. So, especially in the darkest of times, we should ask ourselves "What Would Jesus Do?" He would first of all, do all the things you described... he would also expect each person to put the whole of the group before their individual wants and needs.

Anyway, thanks for another page of "rules" to keep in mind.

-- Kimberly Hott (ckhott@urec.net), September 16, 1999.

Since more people means both more mouths to feed and more potential food gatherers/producers, you need to make sure that all adults are aware of the food situation...and that it is finite. This will encourage help in the garden, fishing, hunting, tending livestock, etc. You might want to slightly understate the amount of food available by omitting one or more storage areas from your "inventory."

Force should be used within the household only as a last resort. You should be working together, not against each other. At a mere 6'2", 55 years old, and only weighing under 300#, I won't be continually going up against younger, bigger folks. The first serious violence, and they are gone. Period.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), September 16, 1999.

This is a really interesting and thought provoking thread. I think for the survival of all there MUST BE RULES. But I sure would like to here from someone who has been there, done that. Its not going to be the Walton's, thats for damned sure! I too am grateful that my parents are dead. It would have been too much to cope with for them and me too. We still have my MIL who lives in a wing that we built on the house. She is very independent and a real trooper. This is a woman who has 3 bear to her credit and god knows how many deer, elk, moose and caribou. She knows how to live "beyond the sidewalks" and never complains. In other words she is a mother in law made in heaven and will be the first one in line to do the days work. But let us hear from some of the ones who went through a war or the depression or???

Taz...who doesn't take kindly to the thought of being invaded and is fortunate is that neither hubby nor she has relatives and friends are providing for themselves. That leaves us with strangers and I am still pondering that one.

-- Taz (Tassie@aol.com), September 17, 1999.

My thoughts on this matter; how about a millitary-type chain of command? There's a captain,first officer,second officer,department heads (security,gardening,medical,etc) and crewman.If the captain is killed then the first officer becomes the captain,the second officer becomes the first officer,etc.The department heads have final say in their fields, they can only be over-ridden by the captain. I think you get the idea, perhaps there are books on command structure which can be studied. One other thing,how about the idea of small sheds to be used for housing extra people.If it was me,I think I would be more comfortable in a little shed that is mine than living in someones house.

-- Stanley Lucas (StanleyLucas@WebTv.net), September 17, 1999.

Stan

Do I fear that my family/freinds will make it to my shelter? No, I hope they do. I fear they will not be able to. However, you can pick your freinds. Family, (and I have a pretty good one) is another matter. I do have some close relatives who I couldn't, with all of my thoughtful advice, reasoning, logic and pleading keep from harming themselves. Would I let my beloved (yet admittedly bone headed) relatives do something that would put the entire household in danger? No. In a situtaion where we are cut off from the infrastructure we can't afford that. There are not many replacement parts for the things that will sustain us. Fit's of temper or momentary lapses of reason can spell disaster. A confrontaion that initiates an escalation of force may well be unavoidable, especially during the early part of the crisis when it may not be obvious to most that resources must be rationed and preserved. However, I have no intention of permanently harming those who have come to me for shelter. And since people can be killed or crippled from unarmed struggle I think it wise to have the means for non-lethal deterrence. Yes, violence begets violence. So if violence is bought to bear against others at the retreat, even if it's abstract violence of stealing the supplies needed to sustain someone else in the months to come, then non-lethal violence will be used in return. I'm not happy about it, but I see no other way. Do you? Any ideas will be welcome.

And thank you for your kind remarks about my past posts. I always keep an eye out for your thoughts as well.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (Best@wishes.net), September 17, 1999.

I am not so sure that I like the military chain of command idea...creates too much politics.

But I do like the idea of two levels.

First level, members of my immediate family, who were here helping me prepare and will most likely stay on for an extended period even as things get a bit better. First level members are "voting" members although discussions prior to the vote may include second level members. No first level member may be evicted from the house...they have to come to terms...they usually do. First level members are entitled to ammenities which may be denied to second level members (hot showers, special food delicacies, private sleeping arrangements, etc.).

Second level members are comprised of folks who arrived late, didn't help to prepare, and maybe don't have much to offer as an asset.

Consensus vote of all First level members may allow graduation to first level status...but the community takes on a longer term obligation (remember no eviction). For example, a rich medical doctor cousin who arrives with his polite head nurse wife and their quiet little 5 year old girl in a van equipped with all the bedding they will need, some amount of food, and 100 ounces of gold eagles might graduate faster than the ex college roommate (who only I love) who arrives with his 4 screaming kids hoping that we have a stock of beer too and complaining that we don't have pay-per-view.

There may be lots of corn mush for all. There might be a limited amount of gravy to make it taste good. No qualms if some people just get mush.

-- Thom Gilligan (thomgill@eznet.net), September 17, 1999.

by the way, I forgot:

My wife, as usual, has the right to veto any decision which affects life in the home.

She will try to be reasonable but don't try her patience. I will try to mediate a little, but I have to live with my wife so she wins in the end.

-- Thom Gilligan (thomgill@eznet.net), September 17, 1999.

eyes_open,

I appreciate your concerns; you make some good points. How about some sedatives to calm people down?

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 18, 1999.

Stan

Sedatives have a place in the retreat medicine chest, so long as they are accompanied by the knowledge to use them. However, I would not, even based on past experience, select someone at the shelter as "too unstable to be left unsedated". While I will not brook any behavior that will harm the group as a whole, I also will not condem someone to being enfeebled by drugs. Who knows, a crisis may well bring out the best in those of us who have not done well in a highly structured society. I was actually thinking along these lines. Early in the crisis the need to act as if the disruptions are long term may not be apparent. Many people will wait for Mother Government to make it better. And any disruptions very well cold be short term. So, if we have people who are of the opinion that they should be able to use what they want because the problem is temporary and we have "plenty" I will asign them the task of monitoring when utilities are going to be restored, when the stores will be rstocked, etc. I will define what we need to see to assume that help is on the way, they will monitor the conditions I specify. In this way they get to see for themselves what the situtaion is because it is there job. They get to preform a useful service and likly they will be the type who no one will expect to gloom down the information they uncover. That's my best shot so far at avoiding any unpleasentness. Any improvments or other suggestions will be welcome.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), September 19, 1999.

Art, I like the idea of written rules, but yours sounded too personal and too flippant for the situation. Sure got me thinking, though. So I rewrote (cribbing heavily from you) to make a general and slightly more formal set of rules, scalable from a small household to a large one, and open ended to allow for changing dangers and needs. ---------------------

HOUSE RULES

 

 

1. This household is a lifeboat, not a democracy. The captain makes the rules. Captaincy may be shared. The captain may grant (and revoke) authority. Unless the captain appoints others, the captain is also the Watch Commander and Inventory Manager.

 

2. Additional rules may be made. Punishments may be adjusted to fit an infraction and current conditions, and might vary by infraction or by person. Punishments have no automatic limit.

 

3. The security of the household is paramount. No one shall discuss household matters with outsiders; no adult shall confide household or adult matters to children. No one shall endanger others by act or omission. No one shall render themselves unable either to hear or to help others.

 

4. No person shall have a weapon unless so directed. No person shall be without a weapon when directed to have one. All persons are obliged to keep weapons away from children and from those not authorized to carry weapons.

 

5. A Watch Commander will always be on duty, responsible for security, for knowing the locations of all household members, and other duties as needed. All persons are obliged to consult the Watch Commander when a "reasonable person" would.

 

6. There are no free rides; everyone is expected to contribute. Everyone may be directed to perform assigned chores and/or guard duty. These may be scheduled for any time of day or night. Guard duty is the most important task, and will have specific responsibilities and rules.

 

7. The captain may appoint an Inventory Manager to dispense food and supplies. No one may take food or supplies without permission, whether from a locked space or found unsecured.

 

8. Everyone will ensure that the Watch Commander knows is whereabouts at all times. Each person is obliged to be at the appropriate location when he is scheduled for duty. Each person shall ensure that the Watch Commander knows of duty substitutions.

 

9. The captain determines the appropriate use of alcohol and other drugs, including the type, the amount and the timing. No one shall use alcohol or other drugs when on duty or shortly before.

 

10. Each person shall show good manners, and respect for others. No one shall make excessive noise, monopolize resources, or cause or encourage arguments. Personal property shall be stored when not in use, and no one may take another's property. Personal hygiene is an obligation, and there shall be no smoking and no strong fragrances.

 

11. Parents are responsible for their children's behavior. Parents shall discipline their own children as needed, but shall not interfere if their children are punished by the captain or an appointed authority.

 

12. Sharing this lifeboat is a privilege, not a right. The order of priorities is (1) to be safe, (2) to cooperate, (3) to be fair, and (4) to be equal. By entering this house, you accept these rules and this situation.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), September 20, 1999.

Oops, that's "his whereabouts", not "is whereabouts".

-- bw (home@puget.sound), September 20, 1999.

There are some very good ideas here!

Whatever your household decides on, for your list of "rules", I think the important thing is to have your list thought out, and written down, now. Mail a copy to each person/family that you think might show up this winter. Ask them to sign it, and return a copy to you. That way, they'll have a chance to know what to expect and maybe figure out other options if it's too much for them, and also I think it will be easier for you to follow through with your "rules", if it's in writing, and especially if they've agreed to the "rules" by signing.

Every summer we offer a work/exchange program with college students. The first time summer we were vague about our "house rules". We knew how we wanted to run our house, but when this other young adult confronted us with wanting to do something a different way, I tended to go along with it, not wanting a conflict, and also because usually the other idea seemed reasonable at face value.

By the end of the 6-week exchange, I was totally burned out, felt like I had lost all control of my household, and resented it!

The next summer, we wrote up our list of "house rules", which also included our daily schedule that we expect our guests to follow, and the student who was coming that summer read and agreed to the "rules", by mail. The difference was amazing! the household ran so much smoother. Everything was up front and agreed to before the student even arrived.

Briefly, some of our "rules" are: no smoking anywhere on the property, no drinking, quiet time after 9 PM,(I think this is especially important in a household with young children...there needs to be a time every day when the house is quiet, so each person can "gather their wits, and regroup", so to speak) all dirty clothes go into the clothes basket in the utility room every day, phone calls limited to 5 minutes, all meals are eaten together, and everyone helps with cooking and cleaning up each meal. etc. etc.

Each household will have different "house rules", but I think it's important to let those coming know ahead of time what to expect. And you might also tell them that you need $1,000 (or another amount) now, to purchase supplies, food, etc.

Margo

-- Margo (margos@bigisland.com), September 21, 1999.

eyes_open,

I think you're on to something. Keeping people busy with meaningful work in which individual skills and talents can be expressed will go very far. Making sure people can get a good night's rest will also help-- sleeping aides may be appropriate. Committment to get along and resolve conflicts quickly and fairly also seems an important factor.

bw,

I'm printing out your list and will give some more thought to details as time permits.

Thom,

I like the multi-level approach and commitments. This seems prudent.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 21, 1999.

While I don't want to get back into a heated discussion of what's right and what's wrong, I have wondered how house rules might include certain and necessary ethics which will not offend different religious and philosophical perspectives. Some of the suggested house rules do contain and suggest a practical ethic: do not steal from others in the group or from the food stores, for example. What about lying and gossip... jealousy and sabotage of other's work... etc.? What if the Captain commits a serious ethical offense? Will mutiny sink a ship?

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 21, 1999.

In some cases, mutiny will certainly take place. The captain's tenure depends on his/her skill and wisdom. I purposely left the captain's powers open ended - in theory he/she could banish a 6-year-old for sneezing. I did that because the unknown and flexible punishment is much better than a known one, where a transgressor can decide that the punishment is worth whatever he/she gains from the act. The people who ask to join a household do so because they trust the captain with the authority expressed in this document, and because this situation is better than they can otherwise attain.

Just as some men marry to take sexual advantage of stepchildren, some will use this situation to tyrannize semi-refugees. We will still have monsters after 1/1/2000.

Implicit in any social group is the idea that the leader can be overthrown, and that there will be a second level of authority always challenging the leader. We evolved doing this; our near relatives (chimps, gorillas) ALWAYS show this behavior. The interesting thing about our ape cousins is that the leadership depends on alliances and the social structure of the "governed". Chimp males don't conquer the females; they take "control" only with female consent, and their opponent concedes (sometimes with real combat) when he senses that females no longer support him.

If this goes on long enough, each leader will eventually surrender control to a new leader, not happily but often without fatal results, just as an aging company founder can turn over reins to his children. It need not mean that the company folds, that the lifeboat sinks. You can still carry on with the same set of rules.

What I'm trying for here is a set of rules that can cover 3 people or a hundred, with appropriate appointments by the leader. Like my Ad Hoc Foodbank document, this is a rough model that won't work for all, but I hope is general enough and flexible enough to work for many. Like the Constitution, you have to interpret it as you go.

-- bw (home@puget.sound), September 21, 1999.

Stan

Ethics for the shelter? I would think they would have to revolve around protecting the group as a whole. We would become our own mini-infrastructure. And we would probably be acutly aware of what happens when an infrastruture fails. In the shelter situation, the infrastructure is made up of the people and the equipemnt they use to provide the basics. So an ethic that would arise would revolve around protecting the group and their necessary equipemnt.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), September 23, 1999.