A KGB DEFECTOR REVEALS THE KREMLINS PLANS TONIGHT ON SIXTY MINUTES.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 12, 1999

Answers

What makes you think you can believe this defector?

That's a good question. Why don't you watch first and ask questions later?

-- Gorbi (..@....), September 12, 1999.

About the only thing the Kremlin can do to us at this point, is to think bad thoughts about us.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), September 12, 1999.

Thanks, BB, for the info. I am going to see Michael Hyatt tonight, but I will set the VCR! :-)

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), September 12, 1999.

"About the only thing the Kremlin can do at this point..."

That has to rank as the all time stupidest statement I have ever read on this forum.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 12, 1999.

Nikoli! Hey! Nice to hear from you again!!!!!!

You were missed!!!!!!!!!!!

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), September 12, 1999.

Hi J, thanks, and the feeling is mutual. Worst part of this new job is lack of internet access.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 12, 1999.

Mabel.

This KBG defector is old, old news (he went over to the Brits decades ago) but it should make for good TV. Do not kid yourself about the Kremlin. Russia has been taken over by organized crime and they have established themselves as a force to be dealt with. The Russian Mafia activities in this country are at alarming proportions and have our own Goodfellows on the run. Just another little problem to put on the table.

-- Truth (at@the.ready), September 12, 1999.

Get a grip Mable,

Russia could wipe us out in 15 minutes! What planet were you born on???????????

Wake up! Wake up!! Wake up!!!

-- Vernon Hale (create@premiernet.net), September 12, 1999.

Truth speaks the truth!!

My Russian friend at Dean witter says so!! Thats why he is here!

-- David Butts (dciinc@aol.com), September 12, 1999.

What makes anybody think the Russians are the only ones capable of doing this? If I were a terrorist I can't think of a better time to execute such a plan than on 01/01/00. Blow up about 15 or 20 power plants and throw in some RR and chemical plants maybe a refinery or 2 just for good measure. Hell some of these groups have networked themselves throughout the U.S. so well they could of and probably did plan this years ago. Just waiting to do their deed for the good of "whatever". 2 or 3 world groups and then trow in the homegrown variety and y2k won't be just a computer problem anymore.

Nik its good to see you around. Let's see we have Andy, Invar, Nikoli, who was the fourth Horseman?

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), September 12, 1999.

And another thing explosives get better with age. Have they found all these devices?

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), September 12, 1999.

Russia could wipe us out in 15 minutes!

Be real. In fact, it would take at least 30 minutes to an hour.

-- semper paratus (ruskies@gonna.gitcha), September 12, 1999.

The CIA Didn't Want Him

So the defecting Vasili Mitrokhin was stuck with MI6.

WHEN Vasili Mitrokhin first approached MI6 saying he had material that would interest them, they had no idea how important his information would be.

CIA officials in the American Embassy in Latvia, had turned away the Russian on the grounds that they were already overwhelmed by would-be defectors. The consensus was that Mitrokhin was a time-waster. So he went down the street to the British Embassy, where MI6 officers listened to him, and decided that they should do everything to help him. In December 1992, they smuggled Mitrokhin, his family, and six large crates of documents out of Russia and into Britain.

Paul Redmond, then the head of CIA counter-intelligence, still rues the day when his colleagues decided to turn Mitrokhin away. He had tried to argue that the organisation should at least listen to what he had to say. The rejection "was, in my view, a breathtakingly stupid thing".

"Breathtakingly stupid" sums it up. For Col Mitrokhin was one of the most senior officials in the archives of the KGB's Moscow Centre. He had worked there all his career. Those archives contained a detailed record of every operation the KGB mounted from its inception in 1917 to Mitrokhin's retirement in 1984: who did what, to whom, when, and why. No other individual was in a position to see such a wealth of material.

Senior case officers - of whom the most illustrious is Oleg Gordievsky, the acting head of the KGB's British section who spied for MI6 for 10 years before making an escape to the West - could pass on detailed information about specific operations as they happened, allowing MI6 to ensure they failed or at least were rendered harmless. But even Gordievsky was not in a position to see the range of material which was at Mitrokhin's fingertips every day of his working life.

Mitrokhin spent 10 years secretly copying out every document. He smuggled these out past KGB security by hiding them in his clothes. He then worked on them over the weekend at his country dacha, hiding them under the floorboards. He amassed an astonishing amount of detail.

As one expert on intelligence said: "Even if the head of the KGB had defected, he would not have had as much information as Mitrokhin. The head of the KGB would not have spent 10 years in the archives copying out material. What any human being can remember is necessarily limited. But MI6 managed to get Mitrokhin and his six crates of documents out of Russia."

The result was 25,000 pages of material on KGB operations. Those pages constitute a unique insight into the organisation's world spy network. The archive discloses that, according to the KGB's own estimates, more than half of Soviet weapons were based on designs stolen from America.

They show that the KGB tapped the telephones of officials such as Henry Kissinger, and had spies in almost all the big defence contractors, such as General Electric and IBM. They show that the KGB planted stories in the United States press with the aim of discrediting Martin Luther King, the black civil rights leader. The KGB disliked King because he believed in constitutional change rather than violent revolution. There was even a plan to break the legs of Rudolf Nureyev, the ballet dancer, after he defected to the West in 1961.

Robert Lipka, an employee of the National Security Agency, who spied for the KGB and did immense damage to America as a consequence, has just been convicted and sentenced to 18 years imprisonment as a result of Mitrokhin's material. But it is not only in America that the gradual dispersal of information from Mitrokhin's archive has led to investigations. There have been resignations, arrests, prosecutions and expulsions all over the world.

In France, at least 35 senior politicians were shown to have worked for the KGB at the height of the Cold War. In Germany, Mitrokhin's documents showed that the KGB had infiltrated all the main political parties, the judiciary and the police, and that the vast network had been left in place after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

The KGB had targeted Oskar Lafontaine, the German finance minister who resigned last spring - although it is unclear whether it succeeded in recruiting him. In Japan, his material led to the unmasking of one of the KGB's most successful spies. And there is more, much more, still to come.

Mitrokhin's motive for first collecting the information, then handing it over to MI6, seems to have been purely ideological. He decided that Soviet communism was evil, and had to be opposed. He thought the best way to oppose it was to ensure that the world knew the truth about the way it worked: the lies, deception, and cruelty on which it depended.

That was why he devoted 10 years of his life copying KGB documents. He is apparently a difficult man: distrustful and quarrelsome. But he has performed an extraordinary service.

The London Telegraph, Sept. 12, 1999

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 12, 1999.

Welcome back Nikoli, without you to back me up it's been tough going on the Chinese and Russian fronts :)

BB has been doing a superb job - he is the de facto 4th horseman :)

Nikoli - get yourself a laptop and set it up in the truck...

later,

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 12, 1999.

semper paratus (ruskies@gonna.gitcha),

Just trying to wake up the "super" liberal Mable! 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 60 minutes, it doesn't matter. Dead is dead is dead is dead.....

How in the world can anyone be a "super" liberal today???? Just blows my mind....

-- Vernon Hale (create@premiernet.net), September 12, 1999.

It is unfortunate that the ruse of inactivity the Russians and also the Chinese are using at the moment has been so well accepted They are lulling America into a false sense of security with their gearing up for "small" fights close to home but watch for very soon Russia will probably "drop the mask" The target is the US for China NOT Taiwan

-- mango (sammy1@indiasite.com), September 12, 1999.

Hi Andy and Johny, hope things are going well for yall. I'm working on the laptop thing, my sister has one she says I can have, unfortunately it's in Milwaukee and after two and a half months of rambling the country I still haven't gotten a load going to Wisconsin. go figure.

BB is doing an outstanding job of keeping awareness focused on the real threat posed by Y2K. That being the use it or lose it situation the Russians and Chinese will soon be facing. I'm not saying the onset of worldwide depression, breakdown in social order, or the collapse of old world governments are not a real and distinct possibility, but they pale in comparison to global CNB holocaust, and the aftermath of such an event.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 12, 1999.

Overall, the responses here are encouraging. That so many understand the communist threat is amazing compared to where we all were this time last year. The intelligence level on this forum is amazing. (pollies and Maria excluded of course).

Andy, I accept this position with humility and honor. I only hope I can live up to this honor and live thru it as well. :-)

What I will watch for is how 60 minutes handles this.

Nik, you don't work 24/7. Get your butt online!

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 12, 1999.

IT,S separation-time. IN THE LAST DAY,S evil will become more evil. satan know,s his day,s are short.the day,s of sitting on the fence are ending.[choose-who-you-will-SERVE.]=DARKNESS-vs.-LIGHT*

-- it,s the great SET-UP. (dogs@zianet.com), September 12, 1999.

Andy,

Did you see the headline on drudgereport.com/ There is a book out that proves that the KGB used conspiratist theorists to pin the JFK Assasination on the CIA away from them.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 12, 1999.

Ahhh faster than a bullet from a NRA member's gun, more powerful than a White Supremacist who needs a shower.

Is it paranoia? Is it just fear?

NOOOOOO it's SUPER LIBERAL MABEL. Watch it, I'm gonna get ya Vern....Boo!

You gave me a promotion, now I'm a super liberal. Gotta tell all my friends in Berkinstocks...they'll be sooo impressed.

My hats off to you Vern, you've got a remarkable talent for seeing only what you want to.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), September 12, 1999.

Uhhh, Vern...it's actually a conservative Republican view that the Russians no longer pose a credible threat. Remember Ronnie Ray-Gun? You know, that guy back in the eighties who told us that WE WON?

Keep an eye on Beijing for sure, because there be trouble a brewing, but the Russians? I think I'd be laughing less hard if someone told me to to watch out for the New Zealanders.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), September 12, 1999.

Hhmm, wearing Birks, drinking water from a Birk -- we must be beserk ;^)

Nik, finally! Please check out this thread and post your reaction:

Mil ne: Another dose of Nytol for Flint

Zounds.

Amazing those archives. Anybody who does that is a historical hero!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), September 12, 1999.

Hi Mabel! I guess in the world of labels, you will get 'liberal' and I will get 'conservative', but for whatever it's worth... as a person (known only in the cyber sense)... I sure like you. We would possibly/probably disagree on so many issues, but you have always sounded like someone who can separate issues from people. Salutations!

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 12, 1999.

4th horseman? Will E. Coli ever come back?

Thanks BB.

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), September 12, 1999.

Mumsie,

Conservative and liberal labels aside, you've made my day.

A quote from Gertrude Stien, "A rose is a rose is a rose" and from William Shakespeare " A rose by any other name still smells as sweet."

Getting past all the names, you Mumsie, are a rose.

Thanks,

Mabes

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), September 12, 1999.

A heartfelt hello to Ashton and Leska, two of the most sincere and caring people It has been my privelege to correspond with. I have no doubt that Leska is as beautiful as any angel of mercy could be, and Ashton could not help being a scholar and a gentleman (not to mention a lucky dog) to have won her hand and her heart. Peace be with you.

Mabel? friend or foe? Advance and be recognized!!

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 12, 1999.

Mabel, are you by any chance in north central New Mexico?

Just curious. one of my favorite places...

-- Janice (careful@swbell.net), September 12, 1999.

A and L, I tried the link but it didn't work, scrolled down a little on recent answers and read the thread with the given title, I'm guessing it is a supplement to a longer origional thread. VERY SCARY stuff.

I'm still puzzling over what "only the most critical of the mission Critical" means in real world terms. Mission critical is not divisible, either the system will safely operate with a given system or it won't. What is the most mission critical component of a hand grenade? The explosive, the casing, the detonator, or the pin? Well if you use a little common sense you can see the grenade will fail to operate minus any of the first three, but reading the article referenced it is clear the Russians are removing number four. Kaboom.

What in the heck is live testing of systems for y2000 issues on a nuclear missile launch platform? Madness? Plausible deniability is what springs into my mind, nobody is THAT STUPID!!!!!

Don't see any mention whatsoever of deactivation of the Russian doomsday device either. The one which automatically launches their entire nuclear arsenal at America in the event it fails to recieve an encoded radio signal at specific time intervals. I keep hearing people protest that an accidental launch is impossible because of all the humans in the loop, but in Russia that just isn't the case. Their entire system has a no humans loop, completely automated and extemely vulnerable to Y2K. If you aren't shivering yet you aint paying attention.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 12, 1999.

Mabel, are you by any chance in north central New Mexico? Just curious. one of my favorite places... -- Janice (careful@swbell.net), September 12, 1999. Ahhh Janice

You are no doubt, an exceptional student of history. No, I've never been to Taos, but I'm an ardent fan of the real Ms. Dodge and her companeras.

I was born too soon, if only....

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), September 12, 1999.

Mabel? friend or foe? Advance and be recognized!!

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 12, 1999.

I guess that depends on whether or not you piss me off.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), September 12, 1999.

A word to the wise is sufficient. Look for Russia (and possibly China) to launch a nuclear strike against the USA in the early part of December 1999, after they conclusively determine that their military systems won't survive the rollover intact.

-- Nabi (nabi7@yahoo.com), September 12, 1999.

HI Mabel, glad to meet you. Great answer!!

Nabi, that is exactly the scenario I fear most.

Ashton and Leska, actually E. Coli couldn't be one of the four horsemen as he was in a class of his own. Well one shared by Hardliner anyway. I sure miss his post and also wish he would return.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 12, 1999.

Senate Will Oppose Imposition Of State Of Emergency MOSCOW, Sep 12, 1999 -- (Agence France Presse)

The head of Russia's upper house of parliament warned Saturday that senators would oppose any Kremlin attempt to impose a state of emergency that would spoil looming national polls, Interfax said.

"If this matter reaches the (political) agenda, the chamber will vote against it in view of the upcoming parliamentary and presidential elections," Yegor Stroyev, speaker of the Federation Council, was quoted as saying by the news agency.

Under the Russian constitution the upper chamber must endorse any move by President Boris Yeltsin to decree a state of emergency.

Russia has been abuzz with rumors that Kremlin aides are seeking to persuade Yeltsin to take exceptional powers in a desperate bid to avoid a crushing political defeat in legislative polls due in December.

A spate of bomb attacks over the past two weeks which have claimed the lives of more than 150 people has heightened tensions across the country, fuelling speculation that Yeltsin intends to assume emergency powers.

Stroyev said there were many in the country who "would very much like" to see the elections scrapped. "But if they are cancelled, both the parliamentary and presidential elections, it will mean an end to all attempts to reform Russia and make it a truly democratic, law-based country," Stroyev said. ((c) 1999 Agence France Presse

-- @y@ (RussiaToday@here.com), September 12, 1999.

A & L, at your service.

Nik, Your smoking now.

I too miss E. Coli posts.

Let's make the fourth horseman a riderless horse. It can be ridden by any who can ride it in truth.

Nabi, I am making my preps and plans for December darkness. I have emailed Nyquist. He won't and can't commit himself, but to him all evidence points to a December attack.

The sixty minutes piece was very revealing. Russia has buried weapons, explosives and who knows what else from El Paso to Montana, from Cal. to the East. Very little is known about this venture even by the defector. However, the water and oil pipelines are targeted. The man from Cambridge said that all of New York, not city but state would go dark.

Remember not long ago, Nyquist revealed that Spetsnaz were caught playing Russian tourists at a dam in Colorado just a couple months ago. The cold war is not over folks.

I now look forward to y2k. If we get there without an attack the chances diminish greatly.

Tomorrow I leave to look at a parcel of land. Fortyfive acres, gas well, water etc. My spot in S. Jersey is ok for y2k but not for this.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 12, 1999.

Nikoli Krushev, I agree with you about Ashton and Leska,

Mabel Dodge -- I guess that depends on whether or not you piss me off.

Nabi -- can I save your prediction and repost it in late December when it does not happen?

-- Cherri (sams@brigadoon.com), September 12, 1999.

BB, wish I had known you are in South NJ. I picked up a load in Bridgeton last week and as layed up there for two days. If any of you are looking for bugout locations, I have been looking at a whole lot of geography lately and I highly recommend the Louiseville Kentucky area, along with Chatanooga Tn. Also Nyquist aint no dummy. Per your reference to Russian agents caught recently scouting U.S. Targets, in a past thread on this forum I recounted my experience with what I believe were Soviet agents scouting the triple 750 megawatt power plant across the highway from my home. That happened about five years ago.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 12, 1999.

Cherri wrote:

Nabi -- can I save your prediction and repost it in late December when it does not happen?

Cherri, please feel free to do so. I certainly hope that this prediction is wrong, because if it isn't, it definitely means TEOTWAWKI.

BB, I've corresponded with Nyquist also, and I hope that all of us are wrong. We will see in about 3 months, one way or the other.

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), September 12, 1999.

I'm south of Bridgeton about 30 miles on the Bay side. Too bad, I've always wanted to meet Kruschev. If you ever are caught in this area, I know a guy with a great bomb shelter. He also runs a gun supply store.

If anyone is looking to relocate to Ky. or W.Va. email me and I'll give you some leads.

Cherri - On what do you base your confidence? And what benefit does Nabi get if you're not around to post? Do you think he or any of the horsemen will be standing around laughing, pointing fingers, saying I told you so. Do you think this is something we enjoy talking and posting about? We are concerned about our country, our freedom and the lives of our children. We hope you are right Cherri. As a matter of fact, if you are right, I will dress up as Bozo the clown on any day in January you chose, and sit over a tank of water.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 12, 1999.

Gosh Cherri,

A 100 years, waiting for love in brigadoon.

The emperoress wears no clothes!

You must be getting cold, girl!

Cover up!

Deo Vindicie,

BR

PS "At the height of strenth, feign weakness."

Sun Zu, 500 BC (NOT BCE!, before the common era)

-- brother rat (rldabney@usa.net), September 12, 1999.

An excerpt from an email I received from Nyquist:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I am merely thinking out loud about the threat to the country and what moves are being made by the Russians, North Koreans, and Chinese to prepare for war.

I am concerned about an attack in late December 1999, which is actually winter. The time between Christmas and New Years is a moment when our alert levels are typically very low, and this is right before the Y2K episode is set to occur. It also worries me because it's right after the Duma elections which the Communists and nationalists will likely win. This will be an important psychological moment for Russia as a whole. In addition, the North Koreans have, in recent years, been training for a winter war.

I watch the mobilizations in China and Russia with care, and I am personally very worried about what they are up to. Certainly I will be relieved to find that I am wrong. Hopefully I am wrong.

I do not subscribe to the theory that you can stick up a superpower with nuclear blackmail. Stick 'em up is something you do in a bank or jewelry store, not to a country the size of the United States. It is too dangerous to attempt such a thing. Better to plaster the place five times over than risk a first strike from the American side.

======================================================================

"I will certainly be relieved to see I am wrong. Hopefully, I am wrong." All true horsemen subscribe to this attitude.

Nabi, your prediction is in good company.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 12, 1999.

My son, an avid student of military history, informed me that fall is a favored time for theoretical attack (nuke/biowarfare) because it would hinder the harvest.

Got KI?

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 13, 1999.

Ashton & Leska,

I just watched "Analyze This" with Billy Crystal and Robert DeNiro. There was a scene towards the end where Billy Crystal is caught in a gun fight. For some reason, you popped into my mind. I know you are peaceful and peace loving people, but I guess I suddenly imagined someone crossing your last straw when I saw that scene. :0)

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 13, 1999.

I have one question - what does Russia hope to gain from nuking the US? Seriously. Specifically. And anyway I thought you folks said everything was orchestrated by the NWO?

This scenario seems far fetched. A better explanation of the posturing we see from Russia would appear to be intimidation and propoganda. My quess is that if they were planning to attack us, they wouldn't let Nyquist in on the deal. The only situation I can envision where Russia would launch a first strike is either by accident, or if we invaded them.

Nik? BB? Andy?

-- a (a@a.a), September 13, 1999.

a,

I'll defer to BB and Nik on this one - they have both studied this in much more detail than I. One thing that has cropped up repeatedly is that this Sun Tzu-type type of stealth attack has apparently been planned since the 30's - feign weakness, feign perestroika, - I could go on in detail but you get the picture.

Check out a guy called Joel Skousen - he has some interesting views too. And of course Lunev...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 13, 1999.

a a few weeks ago Boris was meeting with the Red chinese and the headline quote in the paper was " I look forward to a fight with those westernizers" , enough said?

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), September 13, 1999.

Wow! We had to spend the night helping our patients, just got back to this thread. Many very thought-provoking points above. Nikoli, thank you so much for responding to the article in the Nytol thread. That was the only Russia 'Bombing' Live thread, and we felt weird because it flipped us out but drew blanks and zzzzzs. We feel more 'normal' after reading your take :-) Very very scary development, especially because Russia announced they plan to nuke USA under cover of Y2K "accident." Looks like that Public Plan is still hot green go.

The parallels in the above defector-archive article between the Doomers and the Hero are striking:
CIA officials ... had turned away the Russian on the grounds that they were already overwhelmed by would-be defectors ... consensus was that Mitrokhin was a time-waster ... . then the head of CIA counter-intelligence, still rues the day when his colleagues decided to turn Mitrokhin away. He had tried to argue that the organisation should at least listen to what he had to say. The rejection "was, in my view, a breathtakingly stupid thing".

Ditto ditto ditto Y2K all the way ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), September 13, 1999.

oops, hopefully this time the link will work:

Milne: Another dose of Nytol for Flint

We'll link that thread to this one. It seems significant!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), September 13, 1999.

Why BB I think you'd like to have some of my intelligence (double meaning there - see if you can find it).

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001FFy

BTW, my prediction that "if you build it they will come" came true. So far I beat fast Eddie on predictions coming true.

-- Maria (anon@ymous.com), September 13, 1999.

Mumsie, your son has a point that hasn't been lost on me.

Hi Maria, have a nice weekend?

a, I'll give it a shot:

"What does Russia hope to gain from nuking the U.S.?" you said.

My understanding is that they primarily want to target the military locations. This would rip the guts out of NATO and Russia could get what it really wants ------Europe. As Andy points out Skousen also suggests that Europe is Russia's goal. But his timing is 2004-2007. This is also Chris Story's version found in his excellent rag, 'Soviet Analyst'.

Some go further and believe that Russia wants to do more damage than just the military. Read Nyquist's "Origins of the Fourth War". In the last chapter he details an attack scenario. In that attack close to 160 million Americans are killed by a multiple attack of nukes, ICBM's, mobile and sub; bio weapons in water and air; and chemical. The end has the remaining 80 mill ticked off Americans routing the invading forces.

Skousen believes the NWO crowd is controlling the communists. I agree with Nyquist that the Communists are a group unto themselves. Their enemy is the capitalist (NWO) crowd. The capitalists (NATO is their military) and the communists are in a geopolitical millennial endgame for world domination as outlined in Malachi Martin's "Keys of This Blood". In that book Martin (who recently died), makes Catholicism the third power vying for world domination. He believes God is going to give great signs in the heavens forcing the world to bow to the pope.

As far as letting Nyquist in on anything. They haven't. But there has been a long line of Russian defectors, like Golytsin who has outlined Russia's plans. Most of what he wrote in his book has come true so far. There are also intelligence agencies like stratfor.com, Jane's, CSIS, Center for Security policy run by ex DOD expert Frank Gaffney and others that Nyquist and Skousen glean for information. See Skousen's website. Nyquist is also close to Lunev who he believes is an honest defector and gets good info from him.

There is no glory in being right on this.

As a Christian, I believe God has had His restraining hand over this land. However, I believe that the time seems to have come when He will lift His hand. See 2Thess. 2, Rev. 7.

Hope this helps. I hope you are right.

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 13, 1999.

--a, I'll try adress you question here, though I'm not real good at putting my thoughts into written form. First off you have to understand that two long term cycles (for want of a better word) are about to coincide, and some old deceptions are coming unravelled. First of these is the One World Government Movement. For about a hundred years now the thirteen families have manipulated banking, politics, and sovereign economies using bribery, war, and market manipulation-money supply to further their agenda of instituting a One world communist dictatorship under the control of the old world banking Families. The plan has been wildly sucessful and they are poised on the brink of crashing the entire world economy, then moving into the power vacuum created by the collapse of the various national governments. I'm not going to argue with you over whether or not this plan did and does continue to exist, there are literally millions of pages of documentation, and much of it available from Andy's threads on this forum.

The second cycle is the end of the fiat money bubble, which is more accurately described as a subset of cycle 1. This phase of the plan required that the Bankers destroy the economy of the U.S. and the other industrialized nations, remove the world from the gold standard, and through these measures siphon off the wealth of the U.S. until it became the largest debtor nation on the planet while simuletaneously building an entire world economy based upon the fiat money system. The U.S. dollar to be specific. All is complete, the only remaining action is to crash the U.S. ecomomy completely and the entire world will be thrown into a depression the likes of which has never been seen. Y2K will provide the perfect tool to do this. Or perhaps Y2K was the tool designed to do this. Either way it's too late to stop it now.

Sometime shortly after rollover the world banking system is scheduled to go tits up. Oil supplies worldwide will dry up. Entire nations will be thrown into civil chaos as the starvation sets in, and wars will erupt across the planet as desperate governments vie for critical rescources. The most stable countries on the planet will be thrown into revolution and anarchy. Slowly, not too fast, the U.N. will restore order, introduce a new world wide baking system utilizing electronic currency under the auspices of a One World Government. The surviving citizenry will welcome order from chaos, any chance at a return to normalcy after what will seem to have been an eternity in hell. The playing field will have been leveled and all nations will enjoy a period of prosperity as infrastructure is rebuilt through the bottomless pockets of electronic fiat currency. While this is going on a new world constitution is being forged, outlawing national armies, and prohibiting private ownership of firearms. Only the United Nations will be able to maintain a standing army, or even have weapons to equip one. Safe in their mountain retreats the new royalty will toast the dawn of the new world order. And ever so slowly the controls will be tightened, secret police, population control, work camps, death squads, welcome to the 22nd century.

The Russians and Chines are the fly in the ointment. They have no problem with the plan except one. They want to be living in those mountain retreats. There is only one way to have a viable chance at that. That opportunity will be lost after Dec. 31st at midnight.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 13, 1999.

a,

I'll add my understanding of "why" the Russians might be about to attack the USA, since it is different from the others offered here. For all those who are offended by Christianity and biblical prophecy, please skip the remainder of my post.

DANIEL 7:1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream and visions of his head as he lay in his bed. Then he wrote down the dream, and told the sum of the matter. 2 Daniel said, "I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up out of the sea, different from one another. 4 The first was like a lion and had eagles' wings. Then as I looked its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand upon two feet like a man; and the mind of a man was given to it. 5 And behold, another beast, a second one, like a bear. It was raised up on one side; it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth; and it was told, 'Arise, devour much flesh.' 6 After this I looked, and lo, another, like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back; and the beast had four heads; and dominion was given to it. 7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, terrible and dreadful and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. (RSV)

Here we have the four beasts Daniel saw in his vision described. Most biblical scholars teach that these four beasts correspond to four of the kingdoms identified in Daniel 2 (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome). Yet the language of the prophecy and the interpretation later given to Daniel by the angel sent by God indicate that this is most likely NOT the case.

In this vision, Daniel sees the four beasts rise up from the sea. This would indicate ascension to world power. However, Babylon had already risen up from the "sea" many years before "the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon" (Dan. 7:1). Indeed, the Babylonian empire only had a few years of existence left when Daniel received this vision. While Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome were likely early types of the four symbolic beasts, logically we must look elsewhere for the final fulfillment of these beasts.

All four of these beasts came up out of the sea. In the Bible, this symbolism is used to show that these kingdoms arise from among the nations of the world. The first beast is a composite of two animals, a lion and an eagle. The second beast was a bear, the third a four-headed leopard, and the fourth an unnamed, terrifying beast with ten horns.

What earthly kingdoms do these beasts represent? While the specific identification of these beasts is by no means certain, it appears clear that they represent four kingdoms that arise toward the end of the age of mankind, just before the return of Christ. By relating the beasts to the animals representing them, we can tentatively identify who these entities really do represent.

The first beast, like a lion with the wings of an eagle, represents an alliance led by Great Britain and the United States. The lion has long been the national symbol of Great Britain, and the eagle is the national symbol of the USA. These two powers, as the dominant force in NATO, recently carried out military actions against Yugoslavia in Europe. In so doing, they outraged and alarmed two of the world's other nuclear powers, Russia and China. The plucking of the eagle's wings from this beast indicates that the American portion of this alliance will be removed (possibly through nuclear destruction), and the remainder of NATO (headed by Britain) will be brought down and humbled. It appears that the second beast, the bear, will be the one who does the humbling.

The bear is the national symbol of Russia. This second beast that rises up has three ribs in its mouth, and these ribs tell the bear to "arise and devour much flesh" (Dan. 7:5). In Hebrew, the word for "rib" literally means "side" and can be used to refer to that which supports something. If we are talking about Russia, what has supported this communist country? The Marxist doctrines of the founders of modern communism, Karl Marx, Frederick Engels, and Vladimir Lenin. Interestingly in light of this prophecy, all of these men promoted the worldwide spread of communist rule through force or violence. In their Manifesto of the Communist Party, Karl Marx and Frederick Engels wrote:

"The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win" (Position of the Communists in Relation to the Various Existing Opposition Parties).

Hence the ribs' announcement to "devour much flesh." This Russia will do, starting with the USA.

The third beast, the leopard with four heads and four bird's wings on its back, is somewhat more difficult to identify. However, the leopard has for centuries been a symbol of Islam. At the time when the Islamic empire was conquering territories from Spain to the border of China, Moslem warriors often wore leopard skins into battle to demonstrate their ferocity. The leopard has also been a symbol associated with Iran, which is home to the Persian leopard. The four heads and four wings on this creature indicate that four Islamic nations will lead a Moslem coalition in pursuit of world conquest. As Daniel tells us (Dan. 7:6), dominion will be given to this kingdom. It's possible that this alliance will rise to power soon after Russia has been weakened by the response to their attack on the USA. Currently, Islamic forces are fighting a civil war in southern Russia (Dagestan, near Chechnya) in a bid for independence.

The fourth beast, which appeared to be horrible, strong, and unlike any of the others, represents the global government of the New World Order. This beast will mercilessly subdue the others (the remains of NATO, Russia, and the Islamic confederation) and will incorporate them (in whole or in part) into their governing structure. This world-ruling government will be headed by ten "kings" or rulers (represented by the ten horns on this fourth beast). It's interesting to see that the United Nations currently has the world divided into ten administrative regions. This could be a precursor to what is coming very soon.

DANIEL 7:8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots; and behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things. (RSV)

The ten horns we see in this prophecy correspond to the ten horns listed in Revelation 13:1 and 17:3; additionally, they are the same as the ten toes on the statue in Daniel 2. From these parallel prophesies, we know that the ten represent end-time rulers of the "New World Order." The little horn that ascends among them is commonly understood to be the Antichrist. This powerful ruler will hijack the NWO and will use it as a platform from which to rule the world.

Along with a lot of evidence that Russia is preparing for war, this is my reason for believing Russia will attack the USA between now and 12/31/00 with nuclear weapons. It won't hurt my feelings if I have incorrectly interpreted this prophecy.

-- Nabi (nabi7@yahoo.com), September 13, 1999.

here's a little gem from another thread. Now ask yourself why the Russians are hacking our defense computers. What could they possibly hope to gain? They're our buddies now aint they? What they are looking for is information on the extent to which Y2K will and the gps rollover already have crippled our military, and the possibility of inserting viruses or system commands which will further cripple the response ability of the U.S. to a nuclear attack.

FROM BEN MACINTYRE IN WASHINGTON

RUSSIAN cyber-spies with funding from Moscow have hacked into the computer network of the US Defence Department, extracting information that may include classified naval codes and data on missile-guidance systems. The breach of security, code-named Moonlight Maze, is so serious that all workers at the Department have had to change their passwords in an effort to fight off the threat, Newsweek magazine reports today.

The intruders are believed to be expert hackers from the Russian Academy of Sciences, a government-supported body that has links with the Russian military. Officials at the Pentagon reportedly called the high-tech espionage "a state-sponsored Russian intelligence effort to get US technology", while Defence Department officials described the intrusion as "sophisticated, patient and persistent".

The Russian hackers, who also targeted the Department of Energy, military contractors and civilian academics, apparently gained access to the networks at "root level", denied to all but the most senior administrators, and may have penetrated the so-called technological firewall that separates the merely private but unclassified sections of the system from the most sensitive secret military data.

Security experts first spotted the incursions in January, and then "back-hacked" the source of the intrusion to Russia, leading to a cat- and-mouse hunt through the network. The attackers subsequently worked out a way to enter the systems undetected but still left "tracks".

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 13, 1999.

Nabi,I really don't see the difference in our hypothesis. Either way the same events are going to take place. It is truly chilling how current events match up with biblical prophesy. I correspond with a LDS member on a regular basis and he is firmly convinced we are in the end times. Has a whole lot of stuff from the Bible and The Book of Mormon to back it up too.

-- Nikoli Krushev (doomsday@y2000.com), September 13, 1999.

I will respectfully disagee with Nabi's interpretation of Daniel 7. I have studied Daniel for 25 years and feel pretty good about where I'm at now.

For me, the strongest Biblical proof that troubles lie ahead is found in God's patterns of judgments in the Bible. God has always used wicked nations to punish His rebellious idolatrous people.

He used Assyria to wipe out the ten tribes in 722 B.C. He used Babylon to raze Jerusalem in 587 B.C. He used the Syrian,Antiochus Epiphanes to corrupt the temple services in 167 B.C. He used Rome to punish Jerusalem in A.D.70. He allowed Hitler to rise and punish Europe for imbibing rationalism and the enlightenment philosophy after He blessed them with the reformation.

Why do Americans feel like they are immune to God's judgments? It is the norm that's why. None of the above thought God would allow bad things to happen to them. It is deep denial that anything that bad can happen to us. Well it can. And it is overdue.

A pleading God has held out His hands to America to repent but she goes her way. The Bible predicts that God will once again lift His protecting hand. See 1 Thess.2 and Rev. 7. When the winds start to blow, only those in the ark will be safe. The stormclouds are on the horizon. I am starting to feel a breeze. Time to get on board!

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 13, 1999.

Nikoli,

I agree; we're just looking at different sides of the same coin.

BB,

Respectful disagreement regarding the interpretation of biblical prophecy is as natural as breathing:-). I agree with you that God has established a pattern of punishing proud and sinful nations, and the USA is not exempt from His routine. One way or another, this "christian" nation will be punished for its evil. On this, you and I heartily agree.

-- Nabi (nabi7@yahoo.com), September 13, 1999.