Do we have "worship or"Worshippers" services?greenspun.com : LUSENET : The Christian Church : One Thread |
Do you have a "Worship" or "Worshippers Service on Sunday, and Why, Scripturally.
-- Anonymous, September 10, 1999
In the services on Sunday morning, what criteria of scripture expounds for us that this service is a "Worship service" or a "Worshippers servic?" Is the service for the ones who are already worshipping God, or is there something or some acts on the first day the week that constitutre our worship of God. Concern here involves the use of the word "Worship" in a manner other than as described in scripture.I hope this help clarify the tenor of my query.
-- Anonymous, September 11, 1999
There is a saying that goes like this, "You can observe the Sabbath day one day a week but it takes the whole week to keep the Sabbath day holy." I know Sunday is not the Sabbath but I believe if we are not giving ourselves as living sacrifices everyday, which according to Romans 12 is "our spiritual act of worship", then can we really gather to worship God as Worshippers of God? Would that not be like Israel, who kept the sacrifices and the Sabbaths but then went and worshipped other gods at the high places?I am concerned with what many are doing to the assembly. We have tended to forget that even though a lost sinner, verses a sinner who is being saved,may show up at the assemblies, the assemblies are for the encouragement and teaching of the saints of God. We see from Hebrews 10:25 that one of purpose of the assembly is to encourage one each other in the light of the fact Jesus return is closer today than it was yesterday and might come at any time. The table is for us to recognize the body of Christ and to remember the sacrifice of Christ. The table is defintely for the Christian because why would an unbeliever take the time to remember the sacrifice of Christ which he/she has not been willing to accept for themselves? Acts 2 tells us that "They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer." The "they" refers back to those who have heard the message of Christ and have decided to accept the message and Jesus as their Savior and Lord. I believe the assembly should never loose the emphasis of the encouragement of the saints.
Does this mean we should ignore the fact that an unbeliever may enter the service? No, we are told in I Corinthians 14:22-25 tells us Paul knew that an unbeliever could enter the service. It would be through the teaching of God's word that the unbeliever would become convinced that he is a sinner and God is going to judge him. This would lead the person to Christ. Notice it is the teaching of Christ that leads a person to Christ. Could it be that we have confused evangelism with telling people about our congregation instead of teaching them about Jesus and his word? What reaches people is the word of God and we need to "go" and teach his word and stop expecting the unbeliever to come to us. Let's remember faith comes from hearing the word of God according to Romans 10:17.
-- Anonymous, September 14, 1999
A couple of thoughts ... -- Many of our congregations have gone to "seeker" style services ... and when I visit one of these services, I don't see a lot going on that would edify a Christian with any maturity level. How can Christians hope to grow spiritually with the pablum (spelling?) some of our congregations are putting forth on Sundays. -- Now, I understand that we have to recognize that seekers will come to visit on Sunday. In fact, if a seeker is going to attend, it will be on a Sunday morning. So I like to see good explanation taking place of all that is going on during the service. For example, in some of our congregations, a visitor wouldn't have a clue what is happening during the communion time. Same thing might happen during invitation, etc. So, take the time to explain, either verbally or in the worship folder/bulletin. -- But we must ensure that the preaching, praise and worshhip, etc. is geared to help the Christian grow in his or her faith. A preacher I served with some years ago made the statement, "If the preaching is above you ... get a ladder." I have tried to hold to that in my preaching and teaching ... striving to ensure that what is being presented causes the Christian to stretch a bit, in order to help them to grow.
-- Anonymous, September 14, 1999
According to the responses thus given it appears that the service then is geared for the Worshippers, with which I whole heardedly agree. It is interesting however that not once in scripture (That I have found) does it speak of a worship service on the first day of the week. That worshipping God is spiritual in nature and is ongoing constantly in our daily lives. The emphasis is on that, then, and not a special program of worship on sunday morning with what has been termed "Acts of Worship" It appears that some have the impression that if we do not perform these acts on Sunday morning we are not worshipping God. This is why I raised the question. It appears also that MAN coined the phrase "Worship service" and "Acts of worship" There are those matters which we are enjoined by Holy Scripture to participate in on the first day of the week, and as worshippers already, we join together therein as The Father has ordained.
-- Anonymous, September 14, 1999
I think the answer to the question rests on Jesus' visit with the woman at the well. ISTM I cannot find anywhere where Sunday is a day set aside for any reason. The early Chrisitians met daily. That would indicate that no special day was set up by God.Nelta Brock
-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999
You hit part of the nail on the head about the early Christians meeting daily, (Acts 2:26) and from the woman of the well scene, we come to understand that Worship is "in spirit and in truth" not just a ritual on sunday.
However, just as the Priesthood had certain functions to perform on the Sabbath day (Lev.24:8) Is this not a picture of what Christians, (who are now the Priests of God) do on the "First day of the week?"
The comparison carries over by the example of what the early church did as it continued to mature and grow in the "Apostles Doctrine, Fellowship, Breaking of Bread" and in Prayer (Acts 2:42). The little word "when" in Acts 20:7 indicates the main purpose for their gathering on the "First day of the week" (we call Sunday).
I Cor. 16:2 is another indicator that "The first day of the week" we call Sunday, was the time when Paul wanted the offering gathered for him to receive, so He didnt have to round it up when he got there. Another indicator that this was when the early Church Gathered. Further confirmation of these scriptural examples are given throughout early Church History, If this was what the Holy Spirit led the early Church to do, "On the first day of the week." can we do less and be acceptable to our Heavenly Father? Please Note I did not use the word "Worship" because we answered that earlier. Have a great day.
Jack
-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999
Hello Jack and all,I don't think we can use the example in the O.T. to prove there is a certain day of worship under the law of Christ.
Also it is when we go to the scriptures with our minds made up about the first day of the week being more important than any other day is when we take the scriptures out of context that you mentioned.
In Acts 20:7 if we could go without preconceived ideas wouldn't we simply see that Paul came together with the people to discuss with them? (Dialogue) Wouldn't we just look at it as a send off for Paul who was leaving town? That is not unlike our meeting for a meal when someone has a Biblical subject he would like to discuss with us. Notice I said *discuss* not *preach*, since the word *preach* in Acts 20:7 means dialogue.
Then take the other scripture you mentioned. 1 Cor. 16:1-2: These people were to keep BY THEMSELVES the grain or whatever they had gathered for the poor saints. Or if they had grain to sell that they might sell it before Paul came and not burden him with waiting.
We don't know why he said have it gathered by the first day of the week. We can assume but we do that when we take our tradition to the scriptures instead of taking the scriptures for what they are. If we did not have the tradition of doing certain things on the first day of the week we wouldn't have any thought but to simply take Paul at his word without assuming....
Thanks!
-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999
Dear Nelta,
I think either I was not understood or I did not formulate my earlier response correctly.In response to your comments let me say.
l. I did not mean nor infer as proof of anything regarding a worship Service. Which my previous responses (look back on comments) made abundantly clear I assumed. The purpose of my utilizing the gathering of the priests at the table of The Lord in the O.T. was to inicate a typology of the early Church and its gathering with Christians who are priests. They did it every Sabbath day. Christians do it every first day of the week and for a very similar purpose. Strange similarity. The study of types and shadows is much deeper than that in the O.T. But I didnt intend it as a proof Text per se. Let it speak as it will to those with ears to hear.
2. I was dismayed that you resorted to the old "minds made up" and "tradition to scripture" & Preconceived reasoning. If ever there was a anti-tradition advocate, your dialoguing with him.I did the best I could to keep it 100% Scripture which I again was dissapointed that you did not respond to. Note my thoughts on the word "When" from the KJV. However some of the newer translations pick up on the purpose part of their gathering which was not to give Paul a send off, but for the purpose "to break bread" which I understand to mean "The Lords Supper."
3. I dont know where you got the idea of "grain" from, regarding I Cor.16:1,2, I don't supose it really matters what the collection was, except it makes me wonder how Paul would tote it to Jerusalem. According to verse 3 he would have some helpers. Regardless, he gave the same direction to them as he gave to the Churches of Galatia. It was to be given every first day of the week. So they not only gathered to break bread, but they brought their offerings as Paul directed. Every FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. I guess it has become a tradition, we just dont send it to Jerusalem anymore. However the traditions or Teachings that come from The Apostle Paul are to be kept. (II Thess. 2:15). I guess I am assuming that Paul meant what he said, and if that is a bad assumption. I am guilty.
-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999
Hello Jack and all,In no way was I attacking you....only our traditions. I don't know what to make of your thinking on the word *when*. An illustration of my thinking might be, "When we met at the park we had a fine day of fellowship."
Another thought! When the Lord's supper is mentioned in the N.T. does it not always include the bread and the cup? With that in mind can we not think the *bread* in Acts 20:7 was a common meal? That is the reason I think they were giving Paul a *send-off* or as we might say today a *going away party.*
Added thoughts!
-- Anonymous, September 30, 1999