having doubts please help

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I moved my family from Calif. to Oregon about 4 months ago. I left my home in foreclosure, because of y2k. I left a town of about 22,000 people in Calif. for a city in OR of 100,000. I am afraid i am worse off here than I was there. I have a very good chance of going back to Calif. and getting my house back and resuming my life (my childrens freinds ,our church ,just picking up where we left off.) Please I am so serious. What would you guys do? Am I better off here or there ? This is like a life and death thing to me. If I go back there now I could never come back here through my company. I requested a tranfer and they obliged me . Now if I go back (they will transfer me back because buisness is not so good up here like it was down there) I can never do this to them again. Honestly what do you folks think. Please give me some input. I dont know anyone up here to talk to. Please help

-- Jon (avisandj@aol.com), September 09, 1999


first, you need a new isp.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), September 09, 1999.

What is an isp

-- jon (avisandj@aol.com), September 09, 1999.

Forget Y2K! If you're THAT miserable, move back! At least you had friends in California, and the town was smaller anyway.

-- Gayla (privacy@please.com), September 09, 1999.

jon- it sounds like your heart wants to go back to calif. if this is truly a sincere request for advice,i would say go back to where you were happier in your old town.

-- dory (crtwheel@eburg.com), September 09, 1999.

I am totally cofused, I want to be where my family is the safest. I have a wife and 5 children. My heart doesnt know what to do. I have some family in this state but I have some family in that state too. This is an honest request for help , What would you do?

-- jon (avisandj@aol.com), September 09, 1999.

Jon- Go home and be happy.Best of luck to you too.

-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), September 09, 1999.

Go for it. Smaller town, old friends, sounds OK to me. Get moving! <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), September 09, 1999.

One of the reasons I left Calif. was to be closer to water and OR has lots of it so now with that in mind would you forfeit a few more months of happiness for a life possibly. In about 4 months , if y2k is a 9 or so none of us are going to be happy. So what then?

-- jon (avisandj@aol.com), September 09, 1999.

What town in CA makes a difference. A rual town or surrounded by metropolis?

-- jjbeck (jjbeck@recycler.com), September 09, 1999.


The mistake you made was moving to a higher population density. Being near a river or lake might be helpful but there are a lot of places you can do that. Perhaps you could live on the outskirts of the 100,000 city where it might be safer.

-- @ (@@@.@), September 09, 1999.


Take a deep breath. Sit down and take out a piece of paper and write down exactly why you left in the first place. I mean you certainly knew you were leaving 22k for 100k. Make a list. Now make another list of why you want to leave your current location. It's ok to leave. Sometimes you can't see everything until you live there. But compare the the two lists. It should help you.

If you can't decide, go to North's relocation forum and ask Bobby what to do. He is from Sacramento and he can help you.

-- BB (.....@...), September 09, 1999.


Where (approximately) in California are you moving back to? California is a big state.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), September 09, 1999.

I lived in a smaller town called Banning. It was about 30 miles north of Palm Springs.I didnt love it or anything ,it was just familiar to us. We are now in a place where we dont know anyone . The people up here are so friendly and we are happy enough. I honestly dont know what I miss. OR is a much slower paced place to live and I like that but something is wanting . What would you do in my situation?

-- Jon (avisandj@aol.com), September 09, 1999.

Banning is too close to LA and San Bernardino, Riverside etc., very high pop, and desert, no water, I would stay in Oregon. I am in your same boat and hope to bugout to Oregon, currently I'm in So. Calif.

-- ?? (??@??.com), September 09, 1999.

jon-do you think if you gave the town in oregon a little more time you might discover what is missing? four months isn't a very long time to really meet people and feel"at home". ask yourself where would you rather be if both towns had the same familiarity. which would you choose?what do your wife and kids want to do? best wishes in whichever you choose.

-- dory (crtwheel@eburg.com), September 09, 1999.

Trust the instinct that led you to Oregon and stay where you are.


-- LunaC (LunaC@moon.com), September 09, 1999.

You must have been fairly sure when you asked to transfer. You're just homesick, which is normal for the first year or so. Give it time.

-- @ (@@@.@), September 09, 1999.

You guys are a nice bunch of folks ,I have been a lurker for quite awhile on this forum and I knew I could count on you for good advice. Thanks so much for the input, means a lot.

-- jon (avisandj@aol.com), September 09, 1999.


Poor Jon. Half say move back, then half say stay.

I've done some birding in Morongo Park. Familiar with that Jon? There is some water and road runners and snakes for food. There are a lot of windmills out that way.

Jon, Portland is one of the best cities that gets it on y2k. Anywhere further south is mass weapon proof.

Do you think fear is at work here. What is really motivating you?

-- BB (peace2u@bellatlantic.net), September 09, 1999.

I would take beautiful green Oregon any time against dry desert styfling hot in the summer Banning! Oregon has mild winters and mild summers. I would stay in Oregon and make it work for you!

-- freddie (freddie@thefreeloader.com), September 09, 1999.

Sometimes new members of a community don't "fit in," while others become "a part of" immediately. Why?

I have observed that those who "fit" have become actively involved in the community in some way - church, volunteer fire dept., school, rotary, childrens or adult sports or other clubs. Those who don't fit in constantly compare the people in their new community with the one they came from, the differences in the ways things were done, differences in institutions, beliefs, set up.

The odd rule of life seems to be that the more a man gives of himself, the more he "belongs" and the greater the feeling of self-worth he derives from the giving.

-- marsh (armstrng@sisqtel.net), September 09, 1999.

Marsh is right. Lots of good counsel above. We relocated from southern CA last year. I almost felt paralyzed the first half year we were here. It took a long time for me to process the grief of leaving our friends of thirteen years behind, and the comfort of familiarity. Our roots were strong and deep. And yet we had to ask ourselves if we were willing to risk what we were not willing to lose...and the obvious answer is, NO, of course not. Considering the financial expert's prediction on the probability of a crash and recession or depression, I would try to sell that house while the value is still inflated. And yes, try to get a place further out from where you now live. The commute will be worth the extra security for your family. Stick it out until a bit after rollover, but it won't work unless you honestly try to put down roots and make connections where you are. Invite a neighbor to dinner. Take cookies to another. Invite a co-worker to dinner. Get involved in church or volunteer at your kid's school. If you do all this, and say, come next May, you still want to go back there, it is not too late. You can always find another place to live if you decide to do that then. If Y2K is a problem, if we have a disrutive solar flare, if we are attacked by a foreign power, then southern CA is NOT the place to be. My heart goes out to you. Be strong for your family, and set the example of a decisive leader. Their morale will be directly affected by your confidence or lack of it. Been there, done that. Best wishes to you!

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), September 09, 1999.


don't take this personaly!

But as my daddy used to say!!

"Quit your cryin before I give you something to cry about"!!!

-- David Butts (dciinc@aol.com), September 09, 1999.

See what you doomers have done? You talk about the pollies causing harm....this guy ruined his credit rating, uprooted his family, harmed his career and employment relationship and continues to incur "oportunity cost" in his new town because you doomers scared him so much.

If Y2K IS TEOTWAWKI, how much do you think it will matter where he's at? If it's TEOTWAWKI, wouldn't the guy and his family just starve to death a little slower in OR -- or get killer by "Mad Max" and his band of thugs a little latter in OR?

So much for "preparing" not hurting anyone!!!!!!!

What's most sad is the guy RUINED HIS CREDIT!!! by walking away from his OBLIGATIONS since, "hey those tuned in doomers who've got the skinny KNOW it will be finacial collapse by Janurary -- and paper money will only be good for toilet paper or kindling"...

Too bad the guy can't SUE you doomer scare mongers.

My advice to the guy: You've already made the move. Y2K is only 16 weeks away. Just stay where you are at and make the best of things. Then, if, as I predict, Y2K is NOT TEOTWAWKI, you can decide what you want to do early next year. Plus, there probably WILL be some problems next year, and then you can base your decisions on FACTS instead of a bunch of rumor mongering and spin doctoring from the doomer crown -- many of which actually HOPE for the worst.

And while you're at it, why don't you try to save your credit rating and maybe try to keep your house -- maybe rent it out for a few months or sell it -- even with a loss -- and make a measly four monthly payments so your credit isn't so bad off. Think about this -- what do you think your current employer -- or future employers -- for the rest of your life -- will think about you knowing you just "walked away" from your obligations after falling victim to "millinium madness"? Think they would want to give you much responsibility? I wouldn't, would you? TRy your best to learn from your mistakes and fix whatever messes you've created for yourself -- and learn to take the doomer extremist with a grain of salt and not be so gulible in the future.

-- Cracker (Polly@allsok.com), September 09, 1999.

Mr. Cracker,

Said: "And while you're at it, why don't you try to save your credit rating and maybe try to keep your house -- maybe rent it out for a few months or sell it -- even with a loss -- and make a measly four monthly payments so your credit isn't so bad off"

How about a big glass of------"Shut the hell UP"

Save your credit----LOL--- Thats whats important to you Peoples credit. Oh Gawd---buy more stocks!!! give me more CREDIT cards-- Keep your soon to be Worthless House!!!

-- David Butts (dciinc@aol.com), September 09, 1999.

Jon, why don't you wait four months? If things get bad, you'll be glad you stayed where you are. If things go on as usual, you can move then.

-- Jed (Jed357@aol.com), September 09, 1999.

Having been raised in Southern California (Fontana/San Bernardino area) and then having lived much of my life in Oregon and Washington, I cannot conceive of anyone returning to southern Ca. If you work in Portland its not hard to get out of the metropolitan area. Especially if you cross the river into Washington. Look around some of the small towns on the Wa side of the river. Both east and west of I5. Or go up a little north of Vancouver into the Battle Ground area. If you get off of I5 even 5 miles its all county and spot in the road towns. Same with south of Portland. Get a map and decide how far you are willing to commute to work. Draw a circle and then go and vist every town on the circle until you get a "feel" that that is where you belong. Go west on the Oregon side of the Columbia and its all itty bitty towns. Don't go east of Portland or due west. Its too expensive. Won't take long and your search will be an interesting and fun thing to do. Take the kids. They should be voting members too. Once you get to where you feel good and safe, then get yourself into chuch or whatever it takes to make friend with people of like interest. I bet you can find some y2k groups there too and that could be a start in making friends. I would rather live in a tent in the Pacific NW than in Banning ANY DAY! Other than the cherry trees of the area, Banning NEVER did have anything going for it!


-- Taz (Tassie@aol.com), September 09, 1999.


I remember past posts from a guy named Jon, who's house was ALREADY in forclosure and so, since he had nothing to lose by moving, asked some questions of this board about moving. Methinks this is the same guy.


You are homesick, give it some time. Me and the Mrs. went through the same thing after we moved to FL. After a year or two you may be very thankful that you stayed, we are.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), September 09, 1999.

Community and the quality of neighbor relationships is the most important factor for quality living. That's why I'm staying in this town of 20,000 (that's 25 miles from a city of 2 million!)

Bottled water is safer and guaranteed there (for as much as you store up)

Personally think it might be a 3 but preparing for a 7 just in case

-- Sandwich (anon@anon.com), September 09, 1999.

Had a block party last weekend. One mom saw a CNN report on y2k and thought it would be prudent to prepare. Her husband thought she was nuts. No one else heard, saw, or read any news of y2k (no one except me surfs the web) So, out of 10 households, I'm the only one preparing.

-- Sandwich (anon@anon.com), September 09, 1999.


None of us can make your decision for you. Just as none of us made the decision for you to move in the first place. You say your heart doesn't know what to do, but it does. Just sit still for a moment and listen. You've made a decision based on what you thought was best for your family. Ask yourself how is that different now than it was four months ago? Foreclosure is not the end of the credit world. People have gone through worse. Abdication of responsibility is not the issue. The bank is happy to have your house back, they'll profit. The issue is your fear of making bad choices. There are no bad choices, just varying degrees of consequences. Weigh those. If the rollover turns out to be copeable and uncomfortable, you can always make another choice if you still don't feel at home in Oregon. Settle down, Jon, people make mistakes all the time (not that you've made one now), find something good in your decision and have a laugh about it. Doesn't mean you've made the wrong decision, you just made one. That's all it is. Happines and contentment doesn't come from where you live, it comes from who you are. Peace, Pal.

-- Casey DeFranco (caseyd@silcom.com), September 09, 1999.

This is only an opinion.

You should try to keep the promises you have made.

Starting with the earliest promise and work your way forward.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), September 09, 1999.

Whatever you do, don't back to CA. You were too close to major cities, so it's clear that you would end up dead in a few months. Oregon is better, but you shouldn't be in such a populated area either. Ideally, you should be several miles away from your nearest neighbor, but if you can't accomplish that, at least make sure to be away from major population centers, highways, and major roads. Make sure you are well armed and prepared for any confrontation that may occur, the lives of you and your family will depend on it. Ignore the Polly drivel, they're still in denial and will probably be dead before long anyway. Don't be a statistic like them. Good luck.

-- (its@coming.soon), September 09, 1999.

Hi, you have waited this long, wait out the winter in Oregon and stockpile a bunch of 55 gallon drums of water. If you are still that unhappy in April, go back and take your chances...the main thing is you are with your family. You made this huge move, it must have felt right at the time. Just ride it out a while longer, if you have to decide now for your company, stay put. As a side statement, this is why I am so mad at all the spin/lies/mixed messages from those (allegedly) in the know. We should not have to guess and parse every stupid contradictory statement from the "gubmint" when making life decisions like this! Good luck.

-- (y2kfallback@yahoo.com), September 09, 1999.

To its@coming.soon..........

You wrote ---"You were too close to major cities, so it's clear that you would end up dead in a few months." ---

This is the type of utter shit that dismays me!! It is NOT clear that you would end up dead in a few months!! This unfortunate person has made life-changing decisions based on EXACTLY that type of DOOMER EXTREMIST RHETORIC! Certainly Y2K may cause disruptions and shortages and possibly even job loss in some cases for companies that are not prepared. However your garbage has already and will continue to cause great harm to people.....you have gone way past the REASONABLE preparations point.

Jon, it sounds like you've already taken major life changing steps.......you're already in Oregon.....give it some more time......the first few months are generally the hardest in any move. If you can somehow manage to get your house back you may want to seriously consider doing that and renting it out for a few months until you figure out if you will be going back there.

Above all, I think you would do well to consider what it took me a long time to learn but finally got it. That is: In life, the extreme positions are RARELY correct.

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), September 09, 1999.

You're in denial, Craig. Keep spewing your Polly drivel and more people will die because of you.

-- (its@coming.soon), September 09, 1999.

Jon, I moved from Tucson, AZ to Oregon in August 1984. I was born in Tucson and never liked the heat, dust, and Mars-like terrain. My family was killed in a car accident and I wanted to get away and move to the greenest, wettest, most beautiful place in the USA. I went to the library and read thru "Places Rates" and stat books like that. The photos of the Pacific NorthWest convinced me I'd be happy in the temperate rain forest.

I moved up with two huge Samoyed dogs, @ $1000, and didn't know a single person. But I wasn't homesick for a instant because I was too enthralled with the awesome beauty and thrilling happiness of making a totally fresh start. It has been WONDERFUL! I met Ashton, who was the only other person I had ever heard of living the same workstyle, and he's a saint and the perfect match. We proceeded to travel and Work-In elderly ppl's homes all over the Pacific NorthWest. There's not a single day we don't rejoice in the marvelous lush proliferation of Nature here.

The winters are too cold, too wet, and last too long, but you can feather your nest into a happy cozy cave and weather it through. Spring is gorgeous, summer playtime, and autumn invigorating.
And, water is abundant, pioneering spirit plentiful, farming is everywhere, tiny towns are easy to find, and you'll never run out of new places to hike and explore.

The advice to find a place further out in the country sounds good. If your job appears stable, it would make sense to relocate within commuting distance to a place which appeals to your family's heart.
I would never live in Southern California, because it is too crowded, hot, and too dependent on artificial supports. But living location is very personal, and everybody's different, and you have to weigh all the factors and decide what you like and why. Be sure to get plenty of input from all immediate family members.

Good luck with your decision. Moving is exhausting so one doesn't want to bounce around too much ;^)
Be sure to enjoy Oregon as much as possible! Get outside :-)

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), September 09, 1999.

Jon, I assume you've done quite a bit of research before you left for Oregon. I agree with those that say trust your instincts that made you move. Even though the town you're in now is bigger, if it's friendlier and more neighborly, you stand better chances pulling through as a community with whatever problems happen due to Y2K.

Do some research as to the Y2K status of California and Benning, and surrounding large cities, and do the same for Oregon and where you are now. From my own research, California is in worse shape than Oregon.

If I were you, I'd stay put. If it's a 1 to 5, problems will be local and Oregon has much better chances of getting through the roll-over without affecting your life too dramaticaly, and you'd probably still have the chance to return to California if you still want to after the roll-over. If it's 6 to 10, we're all in it together. Stay close to priorities: lots of clean accessible water and friendly community, and basic survival instincts will kick in.

-- (not@now.com), September 09, 1999.

So much advice!

The way I would make the decision is to take one piece of paper, draw a line down the middle and list the pros and cons of where your are now. Then do the same for where you were. Be sure to include your heart felt feelings in the equation - where you feel most safe emotionally; I believe that will be as important a consideration as physical safety.

Then I would take a retreat weekend to meditate spiritually and ask for help of a higher power to help you with the decision. At the end of a spiritual retreat, I would go with the decision consistant with my heart and spirit, which the physical safety can evolve, with some work and planning, whatever the decision is.

Blessings, hope, and peace be with you with your decision. I believe, if you ask for help from a higher power of your conception, you will know in your heart which decision to make.

-- leslie (***@***.net), September 09, 1999.


Was born and raised in Oregon, and swear that I'll never find a more beautiful and comfortable place to live, though I've tried. Having made moves like yours (tho I was single, so it was a different kind of lonely), I agree that it takes time to get cozy and also time to stop grieving for what you've left behind. You've done a brave and hard thing, and when you, your wife, or the kids seem homesick, I bet you blame yourself and begin to have second thoughts even more. Doubting yourself doesn't necessarily indicate you made a wrong choice, it just means it isn't exactly what you imagined... yet.

If I had one weekend in Oregon, the place I would go would be to drive through the Cascade Mt. Range to the ocean. Walk on those clean beaches and woodland trails and smell the air (really suck it in, it's travelled across the largest ocean in the world, so it's the freshest smelling air there is). Have a picnic behind a big driftwood log, and cuddle up with your family if the breeze is too cool. Drive down the coast to the dunes in Florence, and then inland to Eugene, and a drive up the Willamette Valley. Start to see how big and beautiful, and clean and proud a place it is, and as you and your family begin to fall in love with it, you will realize that you are probably just experiencing what every "pioneer" must have, before the new place could become as comfortable as what was left behind.

Remember, Portland has been on alot more lists of best places to live than I'll be Banning ever has :)... right? You're not the only one who thinks Oregon is a fine place to raise your family; but you found the guts to give it a go. Pat yourself on the back, and be patient. And you and your wife need to do some extra smiling at each other, hand holding, etc., when you're feeling lonely. That wouldn't be so bad, right?

I'm Envious in Maryland,


-- Kristi (KsaintA@aol.com), September 09, 1999.


Read this last evening but hesitated. I suspect the homesick diagnosis is correct but if that's where the heart is and you'ld like contact with a Beaumont group of GIs I can supply E-addys & phone #s. Next meeting in Oak Glen the 26th.

-- Carlos (riffraff1@cybertime.net), September 09, 1999.

Jon, I lived in San Bernardino/Redlands/Riverside for 12 years. Covered a lot of ground; prospected the Mojave, hiked the mountains and deserts, etc. Have friends in Beaumont. In my opinion, Banning has absolutely nothing to offer, and certainly nothing that compares favorably with Oregon. It's right on top of the bound-up section of the San Andreas Fault. And you have the hordes of LA and Inland Empire non-preparers right next door, with I-10 bringing them right by your home; you can't hope to avoid them if things get bad. Want to subject your family to that risk? Of course, it all depends on what your family's particular needs are; at different points in your life, those needs will differ. When I was younger, I enjoyed the large cities; now that I'm older, I much prefer the serenity and seclusion of the Pacific Northwest. If I were you, I'd sure think long and hard before I returned to Banning. Geez!!!

-- Norm Harrold (nharrold@tymewyse.com), September 09, 1999.

Jon, I grew up in Yucaipa. I am now living in a small town in N. Ca. We have water nearby and we have made friends. It help a lot if you get involved in your community. You must reach out to them, they will not reach out to you. You would be crazy to move back to So. Ca. with Y2K looming so soon. If you want to move back, wait until after Y2K and see how things turn out. So. Ca. could be a battlefield soon. No way should you put your family in such danger.

-- Homeschooling Grandma (mlaymon@glenn-co.k12.ca.us), September 10, 1999.

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