Never before in my entire life have I been so personally offended and enraged by what I see occurring in America each and every day. It is clear to any thinking person, that American freedom teeters on the abyss of complete annihilation. Personally, I feel that we are already far down the slippery slope of slavery and have very little chance of recovery unless clear and decisive action by the People is taken immediately. I have absolutely no faith in our current Congress on having the guts to do what must now be done.

Every day, we read about yet another government atrocity, almost always accompanied with the death of the accused at the hands of government thugs. How many more must die before we understand what our only choice is? Clearly, our families, our homes, our possessions, even our very lives are no longer safe and secure. Our government has done nearly everything in its power to ensure we have no rights, no security and no safety in our homes, our jobs and even in our position in the world. Our do nothing Congress refuses to stand up as the voice of We the Peopleand bring to accountability on all charges the thugs who now rule over us.

There are now thousands of voices that are chronicling the daily abuses Americans suffer at the hands of our government. From the ridiculous to the insane, our government has made its position abundantly clear - they are our enemy and seek to enslave us at best, and kill us with impunity if it so suits them. We the People are now faced with a choice.

Thousands of grassroots efforts across the country have sought to exert the will of the People through the political process upon this government. Exceedingly little real progress has been made. We are in fact losing the cold war of words and political reform that has been waged for years. Personally, I think we have already lost this particular war. Dont believe it? Then think back just ten short pre-Clinton years. Did we enjoy more freedoms then? Were we safer then? Was America a better place then? During this same time frame, tens of thousands of people participated in various efforts across this country to bring much needed reform to Americans.

Sadly, but predictably, we are more enslaved now then ever before. Many more are now dead or imprisoned. Each of us faces a much greater risk of being killed or imprisoned by our government and our property and possessions confiscated. Care to keep trying to reform the system through politics? Think again.

It should be clearly understood that our rights, our freedom and our sanctity are not subject to the whims and interpretations of any government, including Bill Clintons government, but are guaranteed rights to each and every human being who inhabits this land. To ensure those rights are kept forever with the People, we have the guaranteed right to resist with force the very government that now rules over us.

I have seen the face of the enemy. The enemy is our government - the responsibility to act is ours. We are now faced with the choice of personal responsibility and accountability. Guaranteed rights dont mean a thing unless they are enforced. The power of enforcement of those rights has always been with the People and the elected representatives. However, our current and past Congresses have refused exactly this choice. We must now make the choice for them and for our children. Claire Wolfe said that it was too early to shoot the bastards. I strongly disagree with this statement. Its nearly too late to shoot the bastards, we have almost lost the opportunity. Once our guns are gone, what are you going to do, throw rocks?

Since our do-nothing Congress refuses to reign in this lawless federal government, we are left with only one clear and awful but necessary choice. We must now resist with every single means available to us. American soldiers have died for far less in foreign countries in unjustifiable wars and police actions. This time, the fight is right here in America, on American soil against American terrorist. This time, we can clearly see the enemy and we know who he is. We must defend our lives, our homes, our possessions and our liberties against the terrorist actions that are now being perpetrated by our government. It is both our duty and our right.

It is my opinion that very soon now only one of two things are going to happen. Either America will suffer through the terrible agonies of a second civil war, or Americans will continue to choose apathy and indifference over freedom. My choice is already made and it is not servitude.

What has any of this to do with Y2K? Actually, in my opinion, quite a lot. Our government is faced with a potentially devastating crisis that it must somehow manage. With the recent crescendo of voices for more gun control and anti-terrorist rhetoric all related to the doomsday bug, what is the intention of government? Clearly, they envision gun confiscation (among other things) somewhere in the next short while. When else will government get such a historical opportunity? Waco didn't do it (we didn't react) and Oklahoma city didn't do it (we still didn't react), so now we've got Y2K which is going to affect everyone.

What do you suppose is the possibility of a corrupt government using Y2K and the threat of terrorist attacks as the perfect opportunity to grab our guns? Should they succeed (not very likely, maybe we would FINALLY react) then there goes the ability of the People to defend themselves AND their rights.

Many readers here have prepared for Y2K. I have long advocated that Y2K is not the real issue. Serious yes, but it does not threaten us as much as a corrupt government does and continues to do. Remember, after Y2K, we STILL have Bill in office (perhaps longer then we would like, or longer then he was elected for) and we still have an out of control government at the helm. When will we deal with that? We have contigency plans for food shortages, power outages and whatnot, but after the lights come back on? After the distribution channels (hopefully) return to normalcy? Then what? Still want to be a slave in America?

Contigency planning is considering the worst case scenario. Have you prepared yourself for something worse then Y2K? Undoubtedly things will (imo) get much worse then Y2K and the related fallout. I spent 13 years as a federal programmer and have more then a gut feeling about what I can expect due to Y2K. I quit this position because I saw something even more evil then Y2K. The evil is called the US Government and so far, all my efforts at reform have failed miserably. So have the efforts of countless thousands of others. I realize now that we are faced with a terrible choice. I know that some of you are trying to look beyond Y2K as I am. What I see is something more ominous and more life threatening then anything Y2K may throw at me. It is not Y2K that has got me really concerned. How about you?

One thing I learned in government is that Crisis Management gives the managing team total authority and control. You can literally get away with murder. That is exactly what has been going on in this country under certain situations for years. Y2K is a great opportunity for pre and post crisis management. You can bet your bottom dollar that "they" won't let the opportunity slip by.

-- Ray Shuster (shusters@montanasky.net), September 08, 1999

Answers

UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES by John Ross

-- Notsayin (readit@amazon.com), September 08, 1999.

Dude, these "grassroots" efforts are just not enough!! One needs to get down into the mud!!! Only then can you have freedom of expression, honesty in government, and a heck of a good time....

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), September 08, 1999.

Ray "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."--1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C. J. Boyd, Ed., 1950).

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence... From the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to ensure peace, security, and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable... The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference; they deserve a place of honor with all that's good... A free people ought to be armed." - George Washington, speech of January 7, 1790, printed in the Boston Independent Chronicle, January 14, 1790.

So who do you believe those that fought or he that dodged?

-- Desertj98 (jturner@ptway.com), September 09, 1999.

To think you goofy shits are loose is a little scarey. You all need better psychotic drugs and some medical help.

-- HELP (goofyshits@yourhome.com), September 09, 1999.

Keep hope alive, Ray. The United States is the evil empire, but this is nothing new. The evil empire, in general, has been perpetuated throughout history by an alliance of Western Europeans. I can understand your concerns (as a result of your experiences with government), but keep in mind that people don't change - only technology does.

Be good to your fellow person; discourage corrupt, inefficient, centralized administration; vote down any program that will increase taxes; encourage positive grassroots action. Without the decent folks doing their part, balance is lost. Good luck!

-- Klar (klarbrunn@lycos.com), September 09, 1999.

it,s a spiritual=problem---man,s wisdom will never, solve-it.

-- see the downfall? (dogs@zianet.com), September 09, 1999.

"I have seen the face of the enemy. The enemy is our government".-- Ray Shuster

This is the sort of white-wing terrorist gum flapping that scares the shit out of me. When Bennet said he was afraid of terrorists, he was referring to Tinfoils like this...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), September 09, 1999.

Y2K "pro". A true believer; a real government man.

-- notme (areyou@kidding.now), September 09, 1999.

The government is the representative of the people. For the most part, your elected reps do the bidding of the American people. THAT is where the change will have to come from, the people who elect the government.

I have been a long advocate of joining together with other like minded people to effect change, yes folks, Unc's on his Libertarian Party soapbox again. But really, what other way is there? While mad as hell sounding rhetoric might help you feel better by blowing off steam, in the long run what must occur is a change in people's attitudes, if you do not change the attitude of a significant portion of the people, you will not win.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), September 09, 1999.

Y2k pro

So who do you believe those that fought or he that dodged(Hint: same guy that pointed his finger at you on TV and lied)?

-- Desertj98 (jturner@ptway.com), September 09, 1999.

"This is the sort of white-wing terrorist gum flapping that scares the shit out of me."

It should.

As long as "diversity" (3rd-world immigration) and "multi- culturalism" (anything goes) continues the USA will continue to drift from being a Christian (like it or not) cohesive nation to New World Odor (you probably prefer "Global") real-estate.

It is big business (republicans) and big government (democrats) that causes, or at least allows this to happen.

Now I realize that some people, somewhere (Bill Press on CNN?), want a one-world government. The kind of place where most of the worlds people need the "Peace Corps" to dig a latrine, or build a one-room school house. Is this what you want too? Or maybe you think that with some really good teachers, the whole world will come up to the same standard of living as the USA?

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), September 09, 1999.

Ah yes, another Tinfoil wearing his white sheets while sitting at his computer. I think the only target you missed was Jews - wanna try again

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), September 09, 1999.

"Ah yes, another Tinfoil wearing his white sheets while sitting at his computer. I think the only target you missed was Jews - wanna try again "

Fortunately, I expected a personal attack, so I was not surprised. Assuming you have a genuine interest in identifying my faults so I can correct them, let me add that I am also overweight...

Getting back to my original point about the USA slowly disolving as a country, due to changes in demographics and culture, assuming the New World Odor types (not intended as a personal attack) "win", how long do you think it will take for the world to reach the standard of living that the USA enjoys? Do you think it even possible?

I do not.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), September 09, 1999.

"Ah yes, another Tinfoil wearing his white sheets..."

Y2K- You seem to imply, BTW, that a person's character is important. How do you feel about Clinton?

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), September 09, 1999.

Don't worry "Anonymous99" I'll be the only one to criticise your lack of humanity here. Your views about race and religion, while vile and reprehensible, are secretly shared by many in the Tinfoil brigade. You can keep your sheets on...

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), September 09, 1999.

"Don't worry "Anonymous99" I'll be the only one to criticise your lack of humanity here."

I'm not worried. Only the NSA and FBI know who I really am.

It is noteworthy though, that you did not answer my questions related to the topic of this thread.

Do you really think that all people are capable of being brought-up to the standard of living we have in the USA, while maintaining that life-style on their own? I don't, based on personal observation.

Do you support Clinton, head of USA "Big Government"? I ask, because your responses strike me as characteristic of US East-coast liberal/democratic thinking (Clinton's voter-base), and you seem concerned about people's personal characteristics.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), September 09, 1999.

"I'm not worried. Only the NSA and FBI know who I really am."--Anonymous99

ROTFLOL - Ding,ding,ding. We have a winner in this weeks pumped up, paranoid Tinfoil goobermeister contest. No one else was even close. Who said comedy was dead?

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), September 09, 1999.

Ray

Sorry. Claire was right. It's not yet time to take up arms. To be more clear, it's not time to start shooting yet. We still have legal options. It certainly IS time to prepare to take up arms in case the legal options don't work. And if your so all fired up to do something, start writing letters, well written informed letters citing source to back up your statements. Write them yo your congresscritter, wrote them to your news papers, and write them to your news papers again. Buy copies of gun control studies published in peer reviewed scientific journals and donate them to libraries. Then write more letters to newspapers. Don't be shrill. Be polite. Be informative.

And while your not doing that, organize and prepare for what you think is coming down the pike.

Follow your intellect, not your anger.

Watch six and keep your...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), September 09, 1999.

I have posted this three times now. Get the documentation on our corrupt computer controlled voting system! Read "Votescam, the Stealing of America" by James and Kenneth Collier. Pocket book, about $10.00Save yourself a revolution which is what the assholes of the New World Order want. Find out who isprogramming the computers in your precinct. Join the "back to paper ballot" movement.Notice, I did not say don't vote.This is the nitty gritty, folks. You will have to order the book, because they don"t don"t keep it around on the bookshelves.

-- Betty Alice. (Barn266@aol.com), September 09, 1999.

Revolutions eat their own children. Civil wars pit brother against brother. War in general kills a lot of innocent people and blows up their homes. War is messy. Revolution is like a rubber band--fast and violent change in one direction bounces back to fast and violent change in the other direction. Usually it fails. Is that what you want? Yeah yeah, we all want more freedom. Me too. But there are less drastic ways to struggle for it.

Grassroots mobilization, OTOH, as well as peaceful civil disobedience, causes solid and meaningful change. It is building without the distruction. To destroy is easy, but to build after destoying everything is twice as hard.

As far as defeating the current US government, at this point it would be impossible. How do hunting rifles and/or light automatic weapons fare against armored helicpoters and elite delta forces? It is no contest. You would end up with a bullet in between your eyes before you'd ever squeeze off your first shot. Then you would be demonized in the press as another fanatic Tim McVeigh and your memory would be despised by nearly all.

To simply fight against something is not enough. To get any broad support you must be fighting FOR something, and at this point there are no acceptable alternatives to our current system. To wage war is only moral under the most stringent circumstances, one of which asks "Do you have a realistic chance of victory?" Otherwise you're just committing murder/suicide.

Which brings me to a hypothetical situation...one where victory MIGHT be possible: maybe a substantial portion of the armed forces defects to the rebel side in the sort of conflict you speak of. (I don't see this as a possibility now, but who knows? Just imagine.) Do you think that they'd want to have much to do with rag-tag, untrained berserkers from the woods? Highly unlikely. You enlist on either side and--if you qualify--you get to be cannon fodder in some BigWig general's grand strategic campaign. No rambos need apply. They don't want lone wolves; they want people who sacrifice their identity to be cogs and gears operating in synergy for a huge, concerted war machine.

As I see it, trends follow their course naturally. If something is top-heavy, like an upside-down Weeble-Wobble(tm), it automatically tips back to its natural state. You don't need a sledgehammer to properly reorient that puppy. Gravity works just fine.

How does y2k fit into this? I believe that if y2k ends up really really badly, the feds will try to exert control but they will fall on their faces. The biggest, most complex systems are the ones most susceptible to failure, and it is the feds who have the most of these. It will be kind of like that last scene in the _wizard of oz_ where the Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz has his own "Y2k failures." "PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!" he bellows. But Toto rips away the curtain, and all we find is a little man. "You're a very bad man," says Dorothy. "No my dear I'm a very good man...just a very bad wizard." It is only when the wizard is humbled back into his human form that Dorothy finds a way to get home.

Once the socio-economic problems facing us become personal on a massive scale, we will deal with them in personal ways. To hell with the huge bureaucracy--which surely seemed cold and inhuman and all powerful and mechanical (when it was functioning)--the tools for change and renewal will be right here in our own hands.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), September 09, 1999.

I had posted the above article on Free Republic - and was immediately banned. Although there were already 65 replies, I was prevented from responding to any of them. I had the foresight to make a complete copy of the webpage and have posted the page on my site, with my comments. I think everyone should know that freedom of speech is just about gone. http://www.shusters.com/free_republic.htm

I suggest you all go read this. If we can't speak freely on such forums, where exactly do you think we are headed as a nation?

-- Ray Shuster (shusters@montanasky.net), September 09, 1999.

"ROTFLOL - Ding,ding,ding. We have a winner in this weeks pumped up, paranoid Tinfoil goobermeister contest. No one else was even close. Who said comedy was dead? "

You seem to be playing by the Liberal Playbook here (tactics #1 and #2):

1) Attack your opponent personally. 2) Never answer a question.

All I meant was that since I am "anonymous" here, only those with sophisticated tracking technology can match my anonymous email address and full name with my physical location and identity using the greenspun log files.

Perhaps you don't specialize in computers?

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), September 09, 1999.