Vern,

If you have read Ed yourdon's latest essay, "The End Game," I can see how you think it is a public issue and not a private one. Ed is right. There is not time now for everyone to prepare, the food distribution system would breakdown from the demand. Maybe you reached this conclusion on your own..

You said you weren't looking for anyone to convince you, so the following isn't meant to sway your actions, but just to let you know what motivates me to go on....

I know what I am willing to do to survive and feed/protect my children. I consider myself pretty average in this respect. And that is what bothers me most about Y2K. Lots of other people would be willing to do anything after about 48 hours of listening to the little ones asking, "Momma, Daddy, I'm so hungry. When do you think there will be anything to eat?".

I have prepared in order to prevent myself from committing crimes against my neighbors. I have stocked up on ammo to prevent them committing crimes against me. We may still die young, or have to make a choice between "them" and "us", but it will be with a clear conscience. I told everyone 18 months ago why this is so important. Now I am just quietly finishing up.

Berry.

-- Berry Picker (BerryPicking@yahoo.com), September 07, 1999

Answers

Response to Hey Vern, here is why I am preparing

Amen
What you have stated are the "facts of life" regarding Y2k preparations for one's family. If others do not protect their families it will be their guilt and not mine. To think of hungry children makes me "sick at heart", but if their parents have been thoughtless and careless with the welfare of their most precious responsibilities, then nature will take its course.

Would I give food to a hungry child at my door...Yes! Would I fill my home with the children of others and watch my grandchildren starve...No!

God help us if we should be faced with decisions such as these.

-- agi (Y2kids@mythoughts.sad), September 07, 1999.

Response to Hey Vern, here is why I am preparing

Berry,

Very sensible. Vern should note that many, if not all, of those who have been trying to prepare are making plans to provide for their extended families, and in some cases neighbors as well.

Now it doesn't take a genius to see that, if even a fourth of families prepare and include plans for others in their preps, such actions will drastically change the scenario. There is no shortage of food. There is a delay in restocking in the event of a large demand.

If everyone simply went to the feed store and picked up a bag of wheat and a bag of rolled oats, (total cost about $20) it wouldn't cause a bit of concern. They sell this stuff by the truckload. So what is the problem with doing a few simple things like that to prepare?

BTW, we baked some bread with flour made from the feed mill wheat, and it was very good. (weevils and all :-) ). It is heavier and coarser than store-bought, but a few slices fill you up and it sticks with you. It also needs a bit more heat to rise properly. I think it took 2-3 cups of wheat to make two loaves. It ain't Rastrelli's, but it's a long way from dumpster-diving.

In the end, I do not believe I will have to give an account for what everyone else did - or didn't - do, but I will be held accountable for my own actions or lack of them. I agree with Vern that we can't do everything for everyone, but we can do something for ourselves, our families, and maybe a few neighbors. Let's do what we can, and trust God for the rest.

keepin' on

gene

-- gene (ekbaker@essex1.com), September 07, 1999.

Response to Hey Vern, here is why I am preparing

When you feed a stray cat, it never leaves it keeps coming back for more, and it brings other strays with them. I'm sure parents will stand by while you feed their children and not ask for something themselves. It is better that parents fend and care for their own, but I would imagine we will be seeing abandoned children everywhere. It happened during the depression and it will happen again. Bardou

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), September 07, 1999.

Response to Hey Vern, here is why I am preparing

Thanks Berry and agi.

Vern, et al.,

I'm getting sick and tired of all this altruistic "help your neighbors" bullshit. I've already tried to help several of my neighbors by informing them about what may happen and offering them the benefit of of what I've learned from the THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF EFFORT and EXPENSIVE MISTAKES I'VE MADE trying to get ready.

I'm sick and tired of seeing that stupid smirk on their faces when I tell them what I'm seeing, and maybe they should prepare, even if it's just a bit. You know the look (on second thought, you probably don't): that condescending, yet slightly sympathetic expression that says what a poor, silly fool I am for believing in all that Y2K stuff.

I'm sick and tired of hearing that they don't think there will be a problem (even though they have almost ZERO knowledge about the issue and REFUSE to learn about it), or that "someone" will fix it, or best of all: "WELL, IF IT'S THAT BAD, I'LL JUST COME OVER TO YOUR HOUSE."

One of my next-door neighbors was over one day and happened to see my food supply in the basement. He said, "Well now I know where to go if we (meaning he and his family) ever need a good meal."

When I tried to talk to my other next-door neighbor, he said: "Well, if the power goes out, I'll just have to come over and STEAL YOUR GENERATOR."

WHAT KIND OF A FUCKING NEIGHBOR IS THAT? YOU WANT ME TO FEED THESE PEOPLE? I AM OUTRAGED.

Do you seriously expect me to have compassion for these people? Do you actually expect me to provide for them when they knew, and refused to do ANYTHING?

I've given up on trying to help anyone else. Recently, I put together an information packet on the Y2K problem and how to prepare for possible problems. I was going to distribute it to the other five or six households in the neighborhood and then get a list together to form a neighborhood group. But after thinking about the incidents described above, I've changed my mind. I've come to the conclusion that if I tried to help, it would only backfire on me. I would just be informing more people that I'm prepared. I am almost certain their reaction would be the same: "Well if it's that bad, we'll just come to your house." And, to be perfectly honest, I also don't want to be laughed at any more.

Actually, I do have a little extra food set aside for the neighbors. I plan to give them a day or two's supply of rice so that they can get to the nearest relocation center, or go suck off some poor family from their church, like the leeches that they are.

If you guys really feel that way about helping others, put your money where your mouth is. Why don't you send me ten or fifteen grand to reimburse me for the preps I made? Why should I prepare? Why even bother, when I can just impose on Vern to take care of me. What's for dinner, Vern?

-- Clyde (clydeblalock@hotmail.com), September 07, 1999.

Response to Hey Vern, here is why I am preparing

Clyde--

I understand your feelings Clyde. What really gets me is when non-IT professionals think y2k is no big deal when I've had to fix this problem where I work. They don't listen to me and I've been in the IT industry for 20 years.

I had a girl (non-programmer) down here at work send me a y2k bug built like a chip (with the face of death on it, really, kind of prophetic isn't it?). She smirked while giving it too me. A few days later, I dug up a y2k article and sent it to her. The article dealt with the death a y2k programmer who committed suicide because his fixes weren't going well, and he was depressed (I can relate to that, certainly not funny). I told her "Why don't you send a box of y2k bugs to this widow? Smirk while you're at it." I got no reply.

I'm tired of the smirks, y2k jokes and so on too. Sounds harsh (not really), but I'm finding my own ways to get back at these idiots. Also, the controller down here embarrassed me about y2k on different occassions in front of other employees. I got fed up and told him "what kind of father are you, to not prepare? I have no kids, but you do, You're risking their lives in case you're wrong. What kind of man would do this? You love your kids don't you?" Sounds like a good comeback if you're ever embarrassed in a group.

I'm not going to sit here at take this. I'm so upset over this kind of ignorance that I really don't care anymore. I say the hell with people from now on. It wouldn't bother me the least if these people died. That's the point these people got me to. I doubt if I would help anybody if y2k does indeed get bad.

I suppose out of all the time and effort, reading, talking to people,(we're talking thousands of hours here), I've really only impacted a few lives. Maybe 2 or 3 people have finally got it where I was somewhat instrumental. And honestly, it wasn't worth it.

To do it all over again, I would probably would keep my mouth shut. I've heard, the question, "If it's so bad, why aren't programmers really sounding the alarm?" Now, based on my experience we know why programmers aren't alarming people like they should, don't we?

-- Larry (cobol.programmer@usa.net), September 07, 1999.

Response to Hey Vern, here is why I am preparing

I also am amazed when people who have not studied the issue for one millisecond say, "I think it's going to be all right." I say, "You don't know because that information is not available to you unless you have researched it on the Internet." That statement makes zero impact. They are sure they know.

I was going to send a well-thought-out post from this forum to an email loop I'm on, but then decided not to because I have posted several times to these people to give them an idea of what is coming. No one even responds. They have enough information from me to go by. If they haven't shopped yet, they will just have to wait until everyone else is pushing and shoving in the grocery. I honestly feel that I am not responsible for them.

In regard to neighbors, however, that is a problem that is very tough to deal with, probably the toughest of what is coming up. It is our primary job to try to survive, but faced with suffering, I don't know what our real reactions will be.

I have set aside food and water here (where I won't be) for my friend and his mate. There should be enough for two months. The two of them will also have their own, further supply. I am also paying for the preps for my sister and brother-in-law. I don't think of this as generous, but simply as necessary.

I hope we will be able to have some extra for others, but I do not want to habituate anyone to coming to my door. I don't know how this will play out at all. I know how people on this forum feel--to both extremes--but I have as yet to see a good "plan" from those who aim to help--a way of helping without self-endangerment. If anyone thinks of a way, let the rest of us know.

I suppose we will have to play it by ear.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), September 07, 1999.

Response to Hey Vern, here is why I am preparing

Mara I don't think that when the chips are down there will be any way to help others without endangering ourselves. I see myself with a shotgun in one hand and a good samaritan bag in the other.

The experiences all of you have had in trying to help with y2k info has been the same for me and seems to be rather universal. I have endured the looks and laughs ....so they have made their bed, now let them sleep in it.

I will network with a couple of neighbors who have been openminded and friendly to my Y2k information. I know they are doing some preps. Others have just acted stupid and said they would visit if y2k is bad. I've got news for them....the Dr. Jekyl they were talking to will not be the Mr. Hyde they will meet if TSHTF.

Everyone on this thread contributed and reinforced my thoughts and I thank Berry, agi, gene, bardou, Clyde, Larry & Mara. I would accept all of you as my neighbors, anytime.

-- ron.trashcan.banks (ronbanks-2000@yahoo.com), September 08, 1999.

Response to Hey Vern, here is why I am preparing

I have thought a lot about this. Every bite of food I give to others is one less bite of food for my little grandaughters. Also, when people come to your door, who knows what diseases they might be carrying. We will wave to our neighbors and talk over the fence about how awfull it all is but will keep away from others as much as possible. If plagues are set loose, I do not intend to be exposed.

-- Homeschooling Grandma (mlaymon@glenn-co.k12.ca.us), September 08, 1999.

Response to Hey Vern, here is why I am preparing

I agree with Clyde. I am sick and tired of trying to inform and warn people about what is on the horizion. This includes some of my extended family (unfortunatly I have no immediate family). I have marginally prepared for them however. They won't get any of my good provisions though. If push comes to shove I will throw a case of MRE's on the floor and let them fight over it. They all say, "If things get that bad I will just come to your place". My standard reply is "Yeah, if you can make it". What makes them think they will be able to travel. Not a one of them drives. Will public transportation be working during y2kchaos??? I have also put them all on notice by telling them that I will not feed everyone well for one week so we can all starve to death in a month. As for my neighbors, they are all older, and quite obnoxious. I doubt they even know what a computer looks like. They probably spray thier backyards for the millenium bug. If things get bad I figure they will be dead in 5-10 days. I have a close friend, he works on computers, does y2k remidiation. In June we were talking about y2k, he said there will be problems but things will be ok. I kept telling him why I thought things could/would be very bad. He laughed and ignored me. This same individual just told me yesterday about just-in-time delivery and how he is now worried. I have been telling him about this crap for months and he is NOW JUST FIGURING IT OUT ! NOW HE WANTS TO START PREPARING ! ALMOST WHEN ITS TOO DAMN LATE. AND THIS GUY IS A PROGRAMMER ! He is a programmer and he has not spent 1/10 of the time I have spent researching and reading about this issue. He is now just getting a hint of the ramifications. My other friends don't want to think about it becuase it depresses them or they just figure someone will fix it. I am at the end of my rope with these people. They have made thier y2k beds now let them be buried in them. A co-worker of mine commented about me always reading y2k related sites on the net. He laughed and said "Don't worry you will survive y2k". I thought to myself "yeah, but what about you". Bottom line is that most people won't get it untill this thing bites them in their lazy, ignorant, irresponsible ass and by then it is too late. The writing is on the wall and they have y2k dyslexia. YOU HAVE TO BE INSANE TO THINK THAT Y2K CAN BE FIXED. REMIDIATION = DAMAGE CONTROL. Anyway, thats my two cents worth. Just needed to vent after dealing with these idiots for months at a time.

-- Irritated (frustrated@dumbfounded.dash), September 08, 1999.

Response to Hey Vern, here is why I am preparing

Raw nerves exposed. Ouch.

What's going to infuriate me the most after TSHTF is when, after a long day at work or helping others, I return to my house and find it burglarized and many preparations missing.

Even now any thieves would not get everything, since I have been relocating provisions to places miles away in the country, but still, I'd be outraged.

If enough household items are destroyed, the house will be unliveable in the middle of Winter.

And I doubt the police will help. They've been known to look the other way when it's to their advantage or they want to make a point.

Then there might be that incessant banging and shouting at the front door from DGIs who knew I prepared (because I warned them months ago).

What if they are the DGI redneck jerks I've never liked?

The laws of probability suggest at least a few of them will remember my past advice and warnings and pay me a visit when I'm NOT AT HOME.

These DGIs are seemingly blind to the time when JIT will choke.

This is guaranteed to happen when the panic begins.

I warn those at the factory who work with JIT, and they mock me!

They are seemingly bereft of common sense.

All Y2K materials submitted to their observation are lightly shrugged off.

They will regret their stupidity later.

I want them to realize their stupidity NOW.

The window of opportunity is closing very, very fast.

I'm glad some of them commute to work from other states.

At least I won't be dealing with them when the factory tanks, and we're all unemployed.

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), September 08, 1999.