Are YOU prepared for the Great Depression? : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Are YOU prepared for the Great Depression?

Have you obtained all necessary items to sustain yourself and your family when the Great Depression hits America?

All other nationalities are free to offer opinions.

There is a massive enigma of denial prevalent in the United States of America.

Most Americans are brainwashed and do NOT believe that bad times will happen soon.

But YOU know that the catastrophes are on the horizon.

Dr. Ravi Batra has written a new book entitled THE CRASH OF THE MILLENNIUM.

This man is an economics expert who is warning that the US stock market will crash at the end of this year or, at the latest, the first two months of Y2K.

I think Dr. Batra is an optimist.

The US stock market will crash entirely BEFORE Y2K, and it will be the worst economic catastrophe in American history.

Are YOU prepared?

I am NOT. This has caused me much concern.

My relations are DGIs, and they are living in American Dreamland.

I am unable to convince them that very depressing times will totally alter their lifestyles.

I have warned them.

They are not preparing.

Their blood is not on my hands.

-- Randolph (, September 03, 1999


Well, as best I can plan, yes, I've become self-reliant.

Have I forgotten something? I'm sure I have. Do I have last minute items? Yep.

Have I locked in my family's loyalty and safety by planning for and providing for them? I hope so, but that is iffy. I really eased my son's mind this week by inviting his lady to my house from the mid- south. She is very worried about the Y2K situation.....

Live or die, here my family and I make our stand. I've done my best.

-- Jon Williamson (, September 03, 1999.

If you don't calm down Randolph, you're going to stroke out before THE CRASH OF THE MILLENNIUM even hits. Maybe we are on our way to another depression, but there isn't a whole lot any of us can do to prepare long term.

Look at it this way, people survived the last one, I'm sure we'll survive another one. My mother got married at 16, started a household and gave birth to the first two of her kids during the last one. She didn't live on a farm and had nothing in the way of "preparations", but she made it.

As far as the relatives...don't worry just like death and taxes, they will never go away.

-- Mabel Dodge (, September 03, 1999.

Thank God we don't have problems with relatives. We've made sure of that!

"Have you obtained all necessary items to sustain yourself ... when the Great Depression hits America?"

If the economy holds another 4 months we may be able to get some cash together by working like maniacs (we're already 24/7 so it's kinda hard to work more ;-)

So yes at this point we hope the status quo holds as far as the economy and a good employment picture ...

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (, September 03, 1999.



Yes, there are several of my relatives I wish *would* go away......

You are right, we will muddle through, but it will be nice to have done some stuff to prepare as best we can. I'd hate to start survival gardening with my bare hands. And I think my goats and rabbits and pigs and chickens will help a lot.

-- Jon Williamson (, September 03, 1999.

Mabel, don't be so cavalier. "Things were different back then" is more true that anyone can appreciate. A large percentage of people DID have rural farms to go home to. Fully self-sufficient farms at that.

Imagine a computer dependent world that no longer will trust its computers. This is more than just failing companies and losses of jobs.

-- King of Spain (, September 03, 1999.

Dr. Ravi Batra has written a new book entitled THE CRASH OF THE MILLENNIUM.

has anyone read this yet? any good??

-- Andy (, September 03, 1999.

Things are different now.

Inflation will tear away your savings.

Most of you think you are ready, but YOU ARE NOT TRULY PREPARED.

-- Randolph (, September 03, 1999.

Anyone who collects a wage will appreciate the premise behind Crash of the Millennium: Wages are too low, relative to the growth of productivity, and thus we're in for a global economic disaster. Who would've thought that being underpaid would have such awful repercussions? Batra, an economics professor at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, has a long history of mostly accurate predictions. He predicted a major depression in 1990, which turned out to be just a recession, but also had quite a few hits: the rising stock market in the '80s, falling inflation and real-estate crashes in the '90s, and assorted wars and other upheavals. As the 20th century comes to a close, he avers, a handful of long- term trends are coming to a disastrous climax: too much government spending, too much consumer credit, too many monopolistic industries, too much wealth staying at the top in the form of high corporate profits and unprecedented stock prices, and too little trickling down in the form of wages. He also tells you what to do to minimize your losses in this disaster: Sell stocks and bonds. Forget about real estate as an inflation shelter. Park your money in bank certificates of deposit. If you have to speculate, buy gold, silver, or platinum. It's radical advice, but Batra backs it all up with numerous charts showing historical patterns of inflation and speculative bubbles. And he candidly admits he has no idea where all this will end up; his advice merely applies to late 1999 and the first two years of the new millennium. Is he right? We'll know soon enough. --Lou Schuler

From Kirkus Reviews Batra's second attempt to explain why the economic sky is falling, and when. Batra (Economics/Southern Methodist Univ.) received widespread attention for his prediction of The Great Depression of 1990 (1987). In his new book, he repeats some of his previous arguments, many based on mainstream economic theories and sound investment guidelines. He argues, for example, that the present state of the stock market is a ``speculative bubble'' and, like get-rich- quick investment fads in the past, is due for a major comeuppance. Another serious danger theme is the impending Y2K crisis, which will coincide with an economic crash in the fall of 1999. The author is not fearful of combining predictions with dates and typically presents his arguments with historical examples and his major weapon, an almost religious belief in the regular, measurable rhythms of economic cycles. Although most modern economists have abandoned this concept, Batra embraces it as a fundamental principle; for him, economic tides not only wash in and out on predictable timetables, they are an infallible tool. With the next depression, this natural tide will replace our flawed economic structure with something better, for as he states, ``Crony capitalism is about to go the way of Soviet communism.'' Replacing it will be Prout, an acronym for a new socialist system derived by Batras mentor (but so quirky it might have been invented by Karl Marx on LSD). Prout is an economic, political, and social structure as well as a philosophy and clearly defines the politics of the author. For those taking his predictions to heart, he also includes a list of suggestions for weathering the difficulties he describes. The best way to evaluate this title is to recognize that ``the Great Depression of 1990'' didn't happen. In his latest book, the author not only dodges any blame for being wrong, he claims even greater prescient powers because of his previous reasoning. (Author tour) -- Copyright )1999, Kirkus Associates, LP. All rights reserved.

Book Description It's remarkable how often the predictions of economics professor Ravi Batra have proven prescient. Years in advance he predicted the rise of fundamentalism in Iran, the fall of the Berlin Wall, the decline of communism, the stock market crash of 1987, and the September market slump of 1998. The one time Batra seemed to get it wrong was with the prediction of his best-selling book, The Great Depression of 1990. As it turned out, that depression was postponed by massive borrowing from abroad, and what we now face will be all the worse for the delay. The premise of this book is as simple--and as powerful--as the law of supply and demand. In the United States, as in many other countries, we've been producing more and more goods, but wages have not kept pace. That disparity has been papered over by credit cards, easy loans and a huge speculative bubble in the stock market, but cracks are appearing in the walls. Russia, the "Tiger" economies of Asia, and Latin America have been hit hard recently, and Batra predicts similar tough times ahead for the United States. It will begin with a stock market crash in the fall of 1999, followed by a depression made doubly damaging by rising inflation. Its effects will reverberate through the early part of the coming decade. In The Crash of the Millennium, Professor Batra describes how individuals, businesses, and governments can prepare for the hardships that lie ahead. And he tells us how, for those who survive, the future beyond the dark horizon holds decades of prosperity and peace.

From the Back Cover "Ravi Batra has made an outstanding reputation in the United States as an international economic theorist in the best Western tradition." --Leonard Silk, New York Times

"When it comes to the bottom line so beloved of economists, one can learn a lot about events by thinking about them in cyclical regularities, of which Batra gives a novel and brilliant exposition." --Lester C. Thurow

"The forecasting record of this widely respected Southern Methodist University economist has won glowing praise from many pragmatic investment masters." --Tom Peters, Chicago Tribune

"Batra is a scholar who has earned a considerable reputation as an expert on trade." --Albert Crenshaw, Washington Post

"Scary, provocative. The good professor has a formidable academic reputation and, from what I know, his forecasting record is impressive." --Barton Biggs, Morgan Stanley & Company

"Ravi Batra was used to making tumultuous global forecasts and having nobody listen--then predictions started to come true." --Chip Brown, Associated Press

"His predictions in the early 1980s of low inflation, falling oil prices, and a wave of mergers--mocked for years--have proved close to the mark." --Thomas C. Hayes, New York Times

About the Author DR. RAVI BATRA, professor of economics at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, is the author of five international best- sellers. Chairman of the department from 1977 to 1980, Batra was ranked third among forty-six "superstars" selected from all-American universities by the learned journal Economic Inquiry. In 1990, the Italian prime minister awarded him a Medal of the Senate for correctly predicting the downfall of Soviet communism.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

-- Andy (, September 03, 1999.

For a little balance, here is an excerpt from the Ludwig von Mises Institute site regarding the good doctor:

[Reprinted for educational purposes, etc. yadayadayada]


During the mid-1980s, one of the kookier things I as an economist and a sane person had to deal with was Dr. Ravi Batras monster best- seller The Great Depression of 1990, published by Simon and Shuster.

Dr. Batra prophesied--er, I mean forecasted--that the year 1990 would begin a cataclysmic, seven-year, world-wide depression. If there was anything good about this disaster, he said, it was that it would bring an end to the capitalistic system, and thus usher in a new Golden Age.

Upon the first sign of weakness in the stock market in late 1989 or early 1990, Dr. Batra warned us to sell all our stocks and bonds. He said we should empty our retirement accounts, even though there would be penalties for early withdrawal. And he rhetorically asked, Can you trust banks at all? He also warned business people to get out of long-term investments, and to get into the repair business.

The reason Dr. Batra was taken seriously was that he was lucky on a couple of wild predictions. I call this the first law of forecasting. When youre a nobody out to make a name for yourself, what you do is this: Make a wild forecast. Predict something nobody else is forecasting. The odds are, it wont happen. But, if it does, youll be the only one to have forecasted it.

[end snip]

'nuff said

Jolly reads too much.

-- Jollyprez (, September 03, 1999.

GOD promised the prophet Zechariah that in the last days, he would be a protective wall of fire around his people: "For I, saith the Lord, will be unto her a wall of fire round about..." (Zechariah 2:5).

Likewise, Isaiah testifies: "For thou has been a...shadow from the heat, when the blast of the terrible ones is as a storm against the wall" (Isaiah 25:4). s (4:6).

These promises are meant to comfort us beforehand - because all the prophets warn of a great storm coming in the final days, which will beat against God's wall of protection with ferocity!

Indeed, Jesus says this coming storm will be so frightful and overwhelming, people's hearts will fail them as they see it developing (see Luke 21:26). Now, if Jesus says this storm is going to be ferocious, we can know it will be an awesome moment in history. Yet, the Bible assures us God never sends judgment on any society without first revealing to his prophets what he plans to do: "Surely the Lord will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7).

This is a marvelous expression of our Lord's great love for his people. And if you study the biblical prophets' writings carefully, you'll see that God acts this way consistently. Just prior to an impending storm of judgment, he always commands his prophets to warn the people to return to him: "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, the ministry of the prophets" (Hosea 12:10).

Moreover, God is faithful to speak in times of prosperity, just before the fury of his judgment strikes. While the storm clouds are still gathering, he raises up prophetic voices all over the land. And, according to scripture, whenever a sinful nation was prosperous and at peace, God told his prophets to warn that the good times soon would end: "...the Lord hath cried by the former prophets, when Jerusalem was inhabited and in prosperity..." (Zechariah 7:7).

At times God made his message so strong, he instructed his spokesmen to issue cutting, searing warnings: "Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth..." (Hosea 6:5). In other words: "The word I bring will be so clear, it will smite you if your heart is open at all. It will cause you to fall on your face and repent!"

We always have to keep in mind, God's only purpose in lovingly calling us back to himself is to protect us in such times of storm. Yet often in biblical history, when he gave these warnings, the people refused to listen: "He sent prophets to them, to bring them again unto the Lord; and they testified against them: but they would not give ear" (2 Chronicles 24:19).

Almost always, God's people grew weary of these warnings. This was especially true if a prophet cried out about a coming storm over a period of years, but the society only continued to be prosperous and at peace. Over time, the people simply switched off the prophet's voice. They simply didn't want to hear it anymore.

We see this in the Israelites' response to the prophet Isaiah. They told him: "...Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits" (Isaiah 30:10).

Can you imagine ever falling to such a condition? These people knew Isaiah was telling the truth - that a great storm was coming - but they got tired of hearing about it! They preferred to hear "smooth things." And the Hebrew word for "smooth" here means "pleasant, unperturbed." They were telling Isaiah, in other words: "Don't preach anything to us that will upset the status quo or make us nervous!"

This very condition is creeping into the church of Jesus Christ today. Believers who have been devoted to Jesus for years now turn on their television sets only to see more horrible reports of violence, disasters, hunger, crime, immorality. After a while, their minds become satiated with all the bad news, and their hearts become hardened to it. To them, even the worst news reports are "just another news story."

I often wonder: Can anything move us anymore? We've already heard every type of bad news we could possibly hear. What disaster or calamity is left that could shock us?

Beloved, God is appalled by this kind of response among his people! We see this in the warnings of the prophet Ezekiel. At the time Ezekiel prophesied, Israel was prosperous and at peace with the surrounding nations. Yet the Lord told Ezekiel to give the people this message: "I will lay the land most desolate, and the pomp of her strength shall cease; and the mountain of Israel shall be desolate...because of all their abominations which they have committed" (Ezekiel 33:28-29).

The prophet went up and down the land, preaching God's warnings over several years. But the people grew weary of listening to him. After all, over the years not one of Ezekiel's words had come to pass. On the contrary, the nation only grew more prosperous!

Over time, Ezekiel's prophecies became a source of entertainment for the people. They began calling him names behind his back - names that were probably similar to the ones I've been called over the years: "Doomsday preacher," "The man who never smiles," "Mr. bad news." Finally, Ezekiel finally got fed up and said, "Lord, you've deceived me. Nothing you told me has come to pass. And now everyone's mocking me!"

"...(Israel is) saying, "Come, I pray you, and hear what is the word that cometh forth from the Lord. And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after covetousness...they hear thy words, but they do them not. And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,) then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them" (Ezekiel 33:30-33).

Let me ask you: Have you come to the place where you've said in your heart, "I've already heard itall! I don't want to hear any more!" If so, beware!

As it Was With All Past

Societies and Church Bodies,

The Church Today Is in No

Mood to Receive Bad News!

The majority of churchgoers today soundly reject all prophetic warnings of a coming storm. Indeed, the American church today is the most blatant "feel good" church in all of history. But, like Israel, we're only experiencing the calm before the storm!

While Moses spent forty days on the mountaintop, Israel indulged in a spirit of lawlessness. The people wanted to play and relax, so they abandoned all godliness. You remember the result: It ended in a drunken, naked orgy around a golden calf.

Likewise today, Christians by the multiple thousands are casting off the yoke of Christ, tossing aside all limits and restrictions. This attitude is prevalent in many of the books and magazines you find in Christian bookstores. It's almost as if our leaders are saying, "Relax! God isn't hard. He's our Daddy, we're all his kids, and we're meant to have a good time. Don't let anyone disturb your fun!"

A few years ago, three pastors of large charismatic churches publicly stated they believed God would use rock-and-roll and rap music to bring in the next great revival. One of these ministers even declared that God used the Beatles to open people's hearts to the Holy Spirit. No - never! Those young men glorified sex and drugs. How could that ever be the work of the Holy Spirit?

One Christian magazine predicted that the next big movement in the church would be a "nightclub" approach - including services that feature dancing, "near-beer" alcohol, and comedians. One pastor told me this is already happening in churches throughout England and Europe. The churches can't hold the people's interest - so they turn them into nightclubs!

In addition, many "sinner friendly" churches in America now serve coffee during their morning services. The people sit with their feet propped up on chairs, never standing up for worship. At one such church, a visiting gospel singer was advised not to sing anything that mentioned sin or Christ's blood, because it might offend the visitors. That church's leaders were trying to create a "comfort zone" for sinners!

You may find it hard to imagine the Israelites dancing naked around a golden calf. But don't for a second think the same thing couldn't happen in the church today. Soon we're going to witness lewd, sensuous, blasphemous forms of religion, straight out of the pits of hell. Indeed, the Bible says a time is coming when God's people will no longer blush. And right now, the church's blush is gone - because we've seen and heard so much already. yet this is just the beginning!

You may ask - why are so many ministers and believers being deceived? Why is there so little discernment in God's house? Why do the most bizarre, worldly movements attract so many followers? I believe the answer lies in a prophecy form Amos:

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord" (Amos 8:11). Notice, this verse doesn't say there will be a famine of preaching. The fact is, God would never hold back his warnings from his church - because only his truth can set us free. That's why he sends his prophets, teachers and evangelists to speak truth to us.

No, Amos' prophecy is not about all the shallow, light preaching we hear today; it isn't saying there will be a shortage of truth. Rather, what the church today is experiencing is a famine of hearing! There is an unwillingness to hear the true word of God. Instead, people are closing their eyes and ears, hardening their hearts, and saying, "I don't want to hear any more!"

I Believe Right Now We Are

Experiencing the Calm Prior to

The Greatest Storm America

Has Ever Suffered!

I first delivered this message as a sermon to Times Square Church on April 4, 1997. Just two days before that, on Friday, April 2, the stock market reached an all-time high of over 7,000.

Newscasters and magazines boasted:

"America is enjoying its greatest prosperity ever. Unemployment has fallen below 5 percent, and there is very little labor strife. Profits are at an all-time high, and people's purchasing power is up. At the same time, interest rates are low, and home sales are increasing. America is riding the crest of a booming wave of good news, prosperity and peace."

It all sounds like good news, doesn't it? Yet the Bible says whenever people are crying, "Peace and prosperity!", sudden destruction is about to fall.

Over the years, I have received letters from people saying, "You've been prophesying for years about 'gathering storm clouds' and a 'coming crash.' Yet all you've done is scare a lot of Christians who trust your word. The truth is, the opposite has happened. Instead of experiencing a storm, we've seen a boom, with record-breaking prosperity. There isn't one sign on the horizon to suggest a coming crisis."

The fact is, the apostle Peter warned that many believers would react this way: "...there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation" (2 Peter 3:3). In other words: "People will say, 'Where's the so-called storm? Everything is continuing today as it always has!"

Beloved, God has judged every past society for lesser sins than America's. Consider:

No other nation has killed more babies than the United States has through abortion. Our soil cries out with the blood of these children! We'd rather save the life of a whale than one of our own babies. America has the world's highest rate of illegitimate pregnancies.

Teenage crime in this country is the highest in the free world. Americans now spend more money on dog food than on foreign missions. We have begun to glorify homosexuality and lesbianism. Our media applauds the "bravery" of gays who declare their sexual orientation - but we ought to weep over it! TV's "Ellen" was hailed as a heroine when she came out of the closet on national television. Yet at one time, Christians across the country would have been on their faces crying out to God for mercy over such immorality.

Network newscasts showed images of half-naked gay women in Florida celebrating "Lesbian Pride Week." An estimated 30,000 women gathered to indulge in drunken orgies all night long for a whole week. And local officials applauded it, saying, "It's wonderful that they're all together here." But it must have been breaking God's heart! Radical homosexuals cry out to society, "In your face!" Yet what they're really saying is, "In your face, God!" America has brazenly kicked God out of its schools and courts. Now there's even a movement to remove his name from the Pledge of Allegiance and from all U.S. coins. People no longer want to hear even the mention of his name!

Fifty million Americans now smoke pot, and millions more are hooked on heroin, crack and other hard drugs. Our schools have become bastions of blasphemy and agnosticism. Our children have been robbed of all moral standards, denied all access to God - and they're reacting by becoming more violent and rebellious.

Beloved, God destroyed Noah's generation, as well as Sodom, all for lesser sins than ours. What arrogance to think that while these societies were judged severely, we might be spared!

Very Soon, America Is Going

To Wake Up to a Sudden News

Report of Calamity - and the

Storm Will Be Upon Us


The psalmist describes how God's rod of judgment will fall overnight: "In the hand of the Lord there is a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring them out, and drink them...all the horns of the wicked also will I cut off..." (Psalm 75:8, 10).

In Revelation, this cup is called "...the cup of his indignation..." (Revelation 14:10). In other words, it's full of God's wrath. Simply put, America's cup of iniquity is overflowing - and all of our sins are going to turn into his holy wrath!

You may be saying, "Why do you have to put such a scare into people? Why shouldn't we just enjoy this posperity while it's here? You should be glad about all the goods things that are happening, especially in New York City. Walt Disney has moved in and taken over the once-seedy 42nd Street. Now all the smut and porn shops are gone, and everything in Times Square is family-oriented. There won't be any riots here, as you predict, with over a thousand fires burning.

Relax, pastor, and enjoy it!"

No - Mickey Mouse can't stop the coming storm! The fact is, Disney has become one of the world's most corrupt media systems. Its movies are rife with homosexuality, violence and the occult. Indeed, such businesses are the very reason God will send the storm - and it will come quickly!

I remember as a young boy hearing a sudden news report that instantly changed America's peaceful slumber. Our family was riding along on a beautiful, peaceful Sunday afternoon to a country church where my father was going to preach. We had just stopped for ice cream when a sudden news flash came over the car radio: "We interrupt this program to bring you this news report: Japan has bombed Pearl Harbor!" I still remember the look on Dad's face; he was in utter disbelief.

That night at church, everyone was baffled. "What's happening?" they wondered aloud. "How could we suddenly be bombed? In the days that followed, we had "blackouts" in which we all had to cover the windows in our homes and schools. Everyone feared a sudden bomber attack!

And, beloved, so it will be suddenly when the storm hits. It will come like a thief in the night, bringing sudden panic and disbelief. Right now you may be thinking, "Let it come! If calamity strikes, I'll deal with it then. After all, I'm in God's hands. I'll be ready - so I'm not going to worry about it. Jesus will see me through."

Yet, let me ask you: Why does God tell his prophets to shout their warnings from the housetops? He wants to warn his people - to stir us up to seek him! He wants to convict us of all our attempts to cast off Christ's yoke and cozy up to the world. He wants us to keep our eyes on Jesus - to seek heavenly things - because those are the only things that will stand in the coming storm!

Now Let Me Give You the Only

Hope in the Coming Storm!

Just before his death and resurrection, Jesus stared into the face of a horrible coming storm. He saw what was just ahead: Jerusalem would be surrounded by powerful armies, the temple would be destroyed, the city would be burned to the ground, and thousands of people would die on crosses erected by the invading enemy. Their entire society was about to collapse!

Now, Jesus was the very embodiment of God's love. And yet he warned, prophesied and wept over his society, because he saw what was coming: "Then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved..." (Matthew 24:21-22).

If you think about it, Jesus' day was very similar to ours: Peace, calm and prosperity ruled. Children played in the streets. There were no signs of judgment anywhere. Yet Jesus described his society as a generation of vipers: priests who robbed widows, scoffers blasphemers, adulterers, child offenders, a corrupt church full of moneychangers, a ministry filled with wolves in sheep's clothing, false accusers, liars, cheats, hypocrites, lovers of pleasure, fornicators, corrupt children. He warned, "You're about to be surrounded by enemy armies. Now, prepare your hearts - because there's a storm coming!"

When I first prepared this message, I was overwhelmed by a spirit of foreboding. All I could think of was the church's terrible condition and how the devil was using subtle evils to deceive God's elect. Christians seemed focused mostly on their own needs - "my needs, my problems, my past, my future - how my parents hurt me, how the church has wounded me, how my friends have failed me..." God's people were no longer weeping over a dying world!

For a while, this truly overwhelmed me. Then the Holy Spirit showed me how our Lord reacted in the face of the coming storm. The apostle John writes, " he is, so are we in this world" (1 John 4:17). The simple fact is, we have to have Jesus' mindset in all things - or our hearts will fail us!

The Bible gives no evidence of Christ being downcast, fearful or hopeless. He didn't panic or despair. In spite of all he saw coming, Jesus knew the final outcome. He knew the gates of hell wouldn't prevail against God's people!

David gives us a clear picture of Jesus' attitude in the face of the coming storm. He speaks prophetically of Christ, saying, "...I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved" (Acts 2:25). The literal meaning here is, "I was always in his presence, beholding his face." David quoted Jesus as saying, "Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope" (verse 26). Here is the secret: Jesus kept the father always before his face!

Jesus continually sought out secret places to be shut in with his father. And it was only after being in God's presence that Christ came forth to minister, fully persuaded that his father was always with him: "He's at my right hand - and nothing on this earth can move me!" The Greek word for "moved" here means "agitated or shaken, disturbed." Jesus was saying, "None of these problems, evils or coming events can cast me down or shake my confidence. My father is in complete control!"

Beloved, if we're going to face the coming storm, then we need to be prepared so nothing disturbs our spirit. And the only way to do that is to spend time in the father's presence, beholding his face. We have to be shut in with him - on our knees - until we're thoroughly persuaded he's at our right hand!

God is clearly telling us, "Don't be moved or agitated by anything you see. Keep your eyes focused on me - and you'll retain your joy!" And according to David, Jesus testified, "...thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance" (Acts 2:28).

It's as if Christ is telling us, "I faced everything you're going to face in the closing days of time. I had the same foreboding feelings, because I saw the coming storm. But I ran into the presence of my father, and he lifted all my concerns! He showed me the outcome to it all. And in his presence I found all the joy, hope and rest I would ever need, to the very end. I have peace and joy because I've been with him!" " flesh shall rest in hope" (verse 26).

-- BB (, September 03, 1999.

I am by no means a Dr. Batra but about four years ago our local paper started to print a list of bankruptcies. I remember the first year the list were about four or five names long and that included five counties. Over the course of two years the list began to get longer. The list in last weeks paper had over 75 names and it has been that long of a list for over a year now. The state newspaper list of bankrupts is well over a hundred names every week. As I watched the list get longer I knew this was a warning and we better wake up! When I first needed credit, back in the seventies, it was almost impossible to get. You had to have a spotless credit history or a co-signer to even start a credit line. It took me a long time to establish a good credit history and I was proud of it and myself for reaching that goal. Now credit is handed out on a silver platter to anyone who can sign their names.

-- Carol (, September 03, 1999.

KOS is absolutely correct. The Great Depression meets Custer's last stand perhaps! Two different eras will reflect two uniquely different reactions and very different results. They can't be compared.

We have prepared for 'another' depression which includes preparing for events that the first depression wasn't capable of creating. The first one was pitiful and tragic, but most people bucked up and pulled themselves up by the bootstraps. They were a different breed living in less troubled times with fewer people. They also possessed useful and necessary skills. Our current society is soft and utterly dependent. This one will be extremely ugly and very messy. Don't forget to add into this scenerio the problems that will be created by the rest of the planet suffering similarly or worse, at the same time.

I won't discuss terrorist attacks or wars until Randolph is feeling better. :)

-- Will continue (, September 04, 1999.

First things first...I don't mud wrestle, but I'm not opposed to watching, how do you look in a muddy thong??? heh heh

Seriously IMHO, this isn't about being cavalier, I feel that preparations for a depression aren't realistic, unless you have unlimited funds and time.

I also feel that most people are tough enough to get through. It's surprising what you can do, if you have to do it.

As far as people able to go back to the farm during the last one, take a look at the history books. People lost farms and homes in record numbers, and moved to the cities for employment.

I don't believe that farms were that self sufficient anyway. During the 30's most farm people did not produce their own farm machinery, grind their own flour, make their own cloth, or medicines. I know the production of can goods boomed in the 1930's, it was certainly a lot easier than canning everything yourself. While home births were common at that time, hospitals were becoming the norm for deliveries. When I think self sufficient, I think the settlers in the 1700's not farm families in the 1930.

-- Mabel Dodge (, September 04, 1999.

Ravi Batra interview on Gold-Eagle:

"The Crash of the Millennium"

I'm posting the link only as this is a loooong interview and I don't want to go to the trouble of cutting and pasting it here. :-)

It will be interesting to see how Batra's predictions play out...

-- Jim Morris (, September 04, 1999.

Mabel, where do you live? Just curious. Have you always been an optimist with a cheery disposition? May I borrow it from time to time?

I hope you own a gun and know how to use it, because we're about to experience an epidemic of 'upset day traders gone postal'. At the minimum, tear gas and rubber bullets into angry mobs outside of banks and government offices. The days of shoe shines and white gloves are long gone. Religious morality is discouraged and 401K plans rule. :)

-- Will continue (, September 04, 1999.

I read his book back in 1989 and started preparing for the coming depression then. I told my mom at the time what I thought was going to happen, which didn't pan out according to the book. We all know what a bubble has occurred since then. AND it is because of this that my mom won't listen to me now!!!! I can't convince her now that NOW more than ever his principles of a crash coming are evident. The economy's been manipulated too much IMHO.

-- lurker 13 (renee13@nowhere.yet), September 04, 1999.

"Have you always been an optimist with a cheery disposition?" LOL Will, I have been called many things, but this is the first time I've been called a cheery optimist. I'll go ahead and take it as a compliment, this time... ;)

I'm not all that cheery, I just believe that it's never been all that great. Life in the "good ol' days" was not like a "Walton's" TV Show, People were just as mean, petty, dictatorial, thieving as they are now.

I'm sure history will repeat and the mean, petty and dictatorial creatures known as humans will survive Y2K. So don't worry Will, you'll do just fine.

-- Mabel Dodge (, September 04, 1999.

Mabel : I know I'm gonna be OK, it's YOU I'm worried about (grin). We're living on 10 acres with wood burning stoves, solar, well, creek, livestock, garden, non-hybrid seed, full pantry, gasoline, propane, kerosene, self protection, cashed out, little debt and 20 miles from the nearest town (pop. 2,000). My husband and I both have trained practical skills which would allow us to make decent livings in the most dire of circumstances. Our ability to participate in meaningful bartering will get us by, if nothing else.

Where do YOU live. Are you forced to be optomistic do to unavoidable circumstances? You strike me as a person who believes in positive thinking. I don't believe anyone on this forum anticipates the loss of all human life and yet, you appear to imply seeing no significant difference between a Y2K induced depression and that of the depression of the 30's. Why is that?

Apparently you rule out the complete or partial loss of infrastructure, government services, transportation, military capability, foreign trade, communication, fossil fuel, water, food etc. I expect the collapse of the entire banking 'system', not simply a stock market crash. Do you dismiss these possibilities? If any one of these things were to occur simultaneously with a market crash, wouldn't the resulting depression be markedly different from that of the 30's?

-- Will continue (, September 04, 1999.

Hey, Will...ever hear of the Dark Ages? Wasn't all that pleasant, but people survived, the human race lived on, we didn't revert to being cave dwellers.

And just what is this thing you have against positive thinking? Did someone tell you that there's voodoo magic, in worry? Does it cast a magic circle around you, to continuously assert that it's all going to fall apart, and we're all going to die? It really won't make any difference, if you worry or smile, as far as what happens, but if you lighten up, you'll at least be better prepared psychologically to deal with what happens. Victory doesn't go to the best prepared, victory goes to the most flexible. Flexible people have some preps, but are also ready to roll out, if need be. You sound pretty bogged down with that farm. Hope you're not on a fault line,, in a flood plain or downwind from a nuke plant. Like someone quoted on another thread. "No battle plan ever survives the battle".

-- Bokonon (, September 04, 1999.

BB, Randolph, Chill chill chill - before you give yourselves strokes.

If inflation comes fast and furious the answer is simple. OTOH If its raging deflation, sell anything you can get your hands on - then hold on to your cash as much as possible.


-- Berry Picker (, September 04, 1999.

Well shucks, Bokonon. If I'd only known that 'happy talk' would prevent Y2K problems from arriving, I could have saved myself alot of time and trouble in taking responsibility for protecting my family.If I wish really, really hard maybe Y2K will go away and I can get a refund on our solar panels, eh? ROTFLOL

You're right, people did survive the dark ages (some of them). We intend to survive this as well. As will many others. Some will not. So what's your point? I'm not telling anybody to worry, I'm suggesting people recognize the potential of Y2K disruption and form *realistic* scenerios in order to accurately anticipate possible results. They will then be equipped to make any decision they choose to make and prepare accordingly to the best of their ability or need. If you're unwilling to do that, why prepare at all? Why come to this forum? It will only make you worry. If I wanted fun chit-chat, I'd be participating on the "101 different things you can do with paint" forum, know what I mean?

Anyone who can't or won't acknowledge the worst case scenerio will not BE prepared pschycologically. They'll only be prepared for that which they are willing or able to accept. In that case, wishing, hoping and positive thinking will become essential. (along with a well stocked library of various movie musicals) It can't happen because I say so? Sounds like denial to me. Skipping through Y2K, like 'tip-toe through tulips' seems foolish. Maybe you require a little lighter subject?

How about mr.roger' :)

-- Will continue (, September 04, 1999.

Thank you for worrying about me, it makes me feel safe and warm knowing that you care. ;) However you assume just a tad too much about my psychology and beliefs. I take Y2K very seriously and I can't really see where any of my posts lead you to believe that I'm little Mary Sunshine.

As far as positive thinking goes, I'm not opposed to it. I'm also not opposed to looking at the dark side, however I don't live in either place. I try to be rational and view everything objectively and feel that placing all my eggs in one basket is a good way to end up with no eggs and a big mess.

I believe that Y2K could end up being a radical change for our society, and there is a good possibility for mass destruction and loss of life. I also believe that we might be fast enough on our feet to tap around some of the worst problems. Only time will tell, and since I don't have a crystal ball, I'll just have to wait and see.

Finally if it's TEOTWAWKI, we will evolve, adapt and survived the best by banding together. If there is going to be such massive upheavals, do you really thing the best chance for survival is for everyone to find 10 acres and isolate themselves? Geeze, in the worst of times in human history, people collected in villages, towns and cities by instinct. It is better to face the unknown and the dark in the company of others, rather than opposing them.

-- Mabel Dodge (, September 04, 1999.

There are some practical things that can by done in preparation for a possible depression. Pay down your debt, increase savings, adjust your lifestyle, etc. For many, a significant adjustment of lifestyle may have to happen before they can attempt to pay down debt or increase your savings. We have touched on some good ideas in previous threads. In Ed's Humpty Dumpty discussion forum, there are several threads going on about how we might make adjustments or seize upon new rules and new opportunities.

What is an adjustment of lifestyle? The opportunities in our lives for some adjustment may, indeed, be signficant. Don Kulha of Home Power Magazine talks about an adjustment as simple as using a money-saving 20 watt Phillips compact flourescent bulbs. Each bulb, he explains will save you over $US 55.00 over the life of the bulb (after you deduct cost of the bulb). 10 bulbs will save you over $US 550.00 over the course of the life of these bulbs with an initial investment of $US 160.00.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (, September 04, 1999.

I have neighbors as well Mabel. Luckily, none of us will be forced to expose our children to the potential culling and violence that large population centers may experience. We're not as dependant as those in cities are either. After the free for all is over in the cities, whoever remains can once again expect us 'loners' to begin feeding them. They will be happy to know that some of us had prepared in the country as opposed to bunching up hoping for help.

-- Will continue (, September 04, 1999.

Will, it sounds like the idea of the end of the world gets you hot.

I can't go there...I don't want to be anyone's personal Jesus.

However good luck to you. Hope it's the good time your expecting.

-- Mabel Dodge (, September 04, 1999.

Mabel, you and Bokonon are the only ones who have even mentioned 'the end of the world' on this thread. Why insist upon reading if you reject comprehension.

Good luck in your future attempts.

-- Will continue (, September 04, 1999.

Great advice Stan, I will second the nomination. Price keeps folks from buying these bulbs, but they use only a trickle of power and last FOREVER.

-- Uncle Deedah (, September 04, 1999.

Finished reading a tome on the nature of Private Lives in the Dark Ages, part of a series of 5 - Roman times till now.

Those people lived lives that I am envious of! Yes, drawbacks included high infant mortality and adult mortality brought about by lack of modern medicine. But, generally if one survived till adulthood one's life was pleasant.

Randolf, one cannot prepare totally for something that hasn't yet happened. The best one can do is to acknowledge something may happen, plan for that within one's means, & accept the fact that, come the event, one will have missed something.

I personally believe the bubble is about to burst, would have some time ago without the massive manipulation by the Big Boys.

But other than band-aids, which I hope will work, I see no real way to prepare for a Depression, anymore than I see a way to prepare for a 6+ y2k hit. Way too many unknowns, and way way too many variables.

Flexability is a key. Non-attachment is a key.

Live with few wants. Live close to source. Smile and laugh regularly.

-- Mitchell Barnes (, September 04, 1999.

Flexability is a key. Non-attachment is a key. Live with few wants. Live close to source. Smile and laugh regularly.

-- Mitchell Barnes (, September 04, 1999.

Brilliantly stated Mitchell!

-- Mabel Dodge (, September 04, 1999.

I may not 'know' if all are prepared...but, what is prepared to the masses? I have preparations in place, but am I prepared...kinda like me asking a shrink "what is normal?" A roof, a warm fuzzy hug, water, food, and thermal undies..........As for looting and muggers, I face that everyday....We dont know what will happen, how bad it will get, and anyone stating otherwise is a Liar......The government isnt trusted by many, so IF they did tell the truth, who would believe them? If y2k isnt as bad as some believe, I personally will have a lil food for when bad times come, and they will. I know we are living in a bubble right now....And all tooo sooon, it will be a rough road for ALL of us..I just pray and trust God to give me the wisdom to prepare His way..As I do for all. And if for the most part, all are as kind as this forum, I;'m not concerned about being murdered for a sack of rice.

-- consumer (, September 04, 1999.


Sorry I had to leave the thread last night, but "Swiss Family Robinson" was on the tele, and I wanted to see if I could gain some insight into your idyllic life out there in the boonies.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that it was bleary eyes from the late hour, and not some reading disability, that caused you to misread my post. I'll copy and paste, with highlights to make it easier:

"It really won't make any difference, if you worry or smile, as far as what happens, but if you lighten up, you'll at least be better prepared psychologically to deal with what happens."

The real irony, is that I think you're the one living in a positive thinking la-la land. I know that every time I walk out the front door, it could be my last. I know that safety is 90% illusion. I know that no matter what I do, there are no guarantees. My stores could be destroyed by fire, tomorrow, and I'd have to start all over again, with very little time left to do so.

You on the other hand, seem to have the notion that there is such a thing, as "perfect preps".
Hungry squatters with guns, just in time to begin the spring planting?
I have no investment in upsetting your equilibrium, so I won't go on and on with a list of what could go wrong with your situation. You stay on your cloud, I'll stay on mine.

You have a situation that you feel is ideal. Good for you! Everybody needs to think the best of what they have. The question though, is why do you insist on trying to pop everybody elses bubble? All of your posts say the same thing: "Neener! Neener! Neener! I have a farm, and you don't." Explain to me how it is helpful, to tell people that the only way to survive is to have a big spread of land, 20 miles from nowhere, when there is only 4 months to go? Do you really think it would be rational for someone who's lived a city existence all their life, to start now on learning how to farm, butcher their own meat, how to chop wood and all the other things involved in your lifestyle? An extremely optimistic view of the real estate deal, would probably put the city slicker on his or her brand new farm by mid October. Two and a half months, to learn a whole new way to live? It would be suicide.

Your message may have had some validity a year ago, but now it's only serving to depress and dispirit those of us who are still in the cities, suburbs and towns. If you don't have any other message to bring here, I would respectfully suggest that it is you who might consider leaving the forum. Unless, as Mabel suggests, it makes you hot to gloat over those you view as less fortunate.

I have to 'fess up about one thing though, I do get a bit of a mean-spirited chuckle at imagining the apoplectic expression on your face, if masses of city dweller decide at the last minute to move out to the country. Especially if your neighbors decide they can bulk up their cash reserves, by selling off chunks of their land, so city folk can put up "Country Condos" (ie, "double wides"). That would shoot the hell out of your little paradise in a hurry, wouldn't it?


I second what Mabes said. Every once in a while, a post shows up that makes you say, "Damn! Wish I'd said that!" Yours is one of those posts.

-- Bokonon (, September 04, 1999.

Stan, for some ideas on how to pare down one's lifestyle to free up resources for preparing for societal financial meltdown, how about the article I wrote entitled "Finding Y2K Prep Time and $$"? It is on my website.

My site:

-- MinnesotaSmith (, September 04, 1999.

There's something about the name, Minnesota Smith, that makes me think of a used car salesman. [grin] What does your mother call ya, Smith?

Nonetheless, I think that you have a good list on what a person can do to adjust their lifestyle. I don't agree with every recommendation, but I agree with most and have made similar adjustments in our lives. Unfortunately, most people are going to freeze up if they saw that list and thought about it for a brief moment. Following most of your recommendations would mean nothing less than TEOTWAWKI to lots of people. uh-huh.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

P.S. Smith, you need a faster server or more bandwidth.

-- Stan Faryna (, September 04, 1999.

To BB, who posted some way up the thread:

I was really interested in the prophecy material, and the nicely rounded sermon. But do us all a big fat one and lose the anti-gay crapola. K?

-- (, September 04, 1999.


"For the wrath of God is revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men...Professing to become wise, they became fools. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever, Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."

Romans 1:18ff -Apostle Paul

Sorry trueblue. All flesh is like grass, the Word of God abideth forever.

-- BB (, September 04, 1999.


I'm a heterosexual, happily married woman. My daughter's godparents are a gay interracial pair. She was baptised as a Lutheran. Have a nice life.

-- (, September 04, 1999.

Bokonon, if that's the impression I've given you, I don't blame you for being upset. I certainly don't wish that to be my message. My apologies if I've given anyone this perception of me. My message has always been that safety in the cities will be difficult to achieve. Period. I have family and friends who, like most others, are 'stuck' in high population centers. For you or anyone to suggest that it doesn't matter whether people worry or smile about Y2K scenerios is disingenuous. If you have *prepared* that would be true. What about those still deciding? I don't believe it IS too late for anyone concerned enough to consider relocating, providing one is willing to be 'flexible' and make a few 'non-attached' sacrifices. I fear for the innocent who will be caught in the crossfire of Y2K. I would welcome *any* new neighbors intending to prepare as best they could, with open arms. We've prepared to help all in need around us, for the past year.

I also object to sugar-coating a potentially life threatening situation. This would be a dishonest act in my view. But if it makes you feel better, have at it. I'll hope *my* message will convince someone lurking to contact a friend or family member who lives in the country and discuss a 'plan B'. Hopefully those still sitting on the fence in cities will come to realize the possibility of danger in their location and be moved to take this more seriously than the current 3 day snow storm 'garbage' our government keeps handing out.

I questioned Mabel's comparrison of a Y2K depression with that experienced in the 30's. You lept in assuming I was attempting to announce an end of the world. She then proceeded to adopt the same assumption. Perhaps I misunderstood your remarks directed to me. I've also grown weary of the suggestions that those of us who chose to relocate are running, self-serving zealots with little regard for our fellow man. I think Mitchell's advice of, "Flexibility is a key. Non- attachment is a key. Live with few wants. Live close to source." applies to the many of us who chose relocation in our plans to prepare. "Smile and laugh regularly", is great advice for those who have followed the first four of his recommendations. I'm just not done attempting to reach those who haven't figured this out yet. Actually, I'm a pretty fun-loving, happy and occasionally funny person. Just not about Y2K and the message that still needs to be announced.

If some of us have prepared to the best of our abilities, are we NOW expected to pat each other on the back and attempt to have a positive attitude in complete disregard of others who are attempting to sort out the possibilities and take any actions by assuming responsability for themselves and their families? Are you suggesting 'gloomy' talk is inappropriate with a full 4 months yet to go? That seems rather defeatist and I never figured you to be so quick to lie down and roll over. Sorry about your bubble, but I didn't create the one which is about to burst. I just want people to be aware of it.

My brother-in-law told us Friday morning that they have concluded we were correct in our need to warn them. They are now preparing and one of their plans includes keeping their motorhome loaded and ready to arrive at our place. My brother in Virginia thanked us last week for our relentless pursuit to enlighten them as well. They have now begun stocking her grandparent's farm as a retreat. They all decided at this *late date* to acknowledge our concerns (finally) and weigh them against the the media and government spin from the point of view of *logic*. So, please don't harp at me about adopting a healthy more cheerful attitude about this just yet. I still have work to do, but, I'm currently much happier about my gloomy message...and I appreciate your bringing this to my attention. I dislike misunderstandings and tend to have difficulty expressing myself at times. I shall count on you to tip me off every time I rub you the wrong way. I assure you it will be a mutual endeavor :)

-- Will continue (, September 04, 1999.


I liked your sermon, generally - but:

You have identified Paul with God. Or implied that the editorial committee for the King James Bible was God. Do you have a scriptural basis for attributing divine judgement or infallability to either of these entities?


-- Liberty (, September 04, 1999.

BB: I wouldn't have ever needed a Bible quote to agree with you. They should have stayed in the closet, where they belonged. Then everyone would be happier and there would be nothing to argue or disagree about.

Homosexual 'compassion' videos (aka propoganda) being shown in public elementary schools? What WILL they think of next. 'How To' manuals?

-- Will continue (, September 04, 1999.

To all posters: Thanks for your responses.

WOW! I leave cyberspace for 16 hours and return to read BB's thought- provoking sermon and other intelligent posts.

Last night I felt the urge to post my question, since I was bummed out after having read and pondered Taylor's transcripted interview with Dr. Ravi Batra.

Being ignorant, I had never before heard of Batra, so I was quite amazed to read his conclusions regarding Wall Street and "The Crash of the Millennium".

This Saturday at work I reread the transcript and concluded that, while Batra is extremely knowledgeable regarding economic history, he is somewhat naive regarding the human heart.

When the economic collapse shocks America, great suffering will afflict millions.

Although many will pull together, many more will become increasingly wicked.

A supernatural evil will be unleashed upon all humans, and human behavior will be altered in the worst ways.

The ensuing panic will devastate the global economy.

Digital wealth will disappear. Bytes will bite the dust.

Only through a new world paradigm under the control of a chosen dictator will the global economy be restored to stability.

But there will be a price to pay, and it will have eternal consequences.

I don't intend to "stroke out", but I will definitely freak out when the crash occurs.

I have told numerous people this, some of whom think I will say, "I told you so."

Of what use will those words be?

Absolutely vain phonetic acoustics.

The conditions are ripe for sudden judgment, and it will be totally unexpected.

But now there is a great lull, a fantastic prosperity, a hollow peace, a colossal, fragile economic bubble.

It will NOT last.

This Saturday at work I talked to an accounting clerk about the forthcoming collapse.

She is the same one who, when told this Spring of a sale on Dinty Moore Beef Stew replied, "We still have a can."

She listened and smiled, but did not believe.

She is unable to perceive the impending danger.

It's as if a mental block is shielding her from my warnings.

She still hopes to go on another pleasure ship cruise with her husband.

Then I talked to another woman, a customer service manager.

When I warned her about the danger signs, she asked what she should do. She said she was serious.

I walked away. She is not serious. She has heard the warnings for months and has not prepared at all.

She will not heed my concern. I can't tell her to buy candles and rice.

If I tell her what serious preparations she must accomplish as soon as possible, she will consider me to be a fanatic.

BTW, she is a Catholic who repeats the rosary, so she feels safe.

Other coworkers find amusement in my warnings.

I find no amusement, only grossly ignorant stupidity.

But I can not stop warning them. They MUST awaken to the peril about to hit America.

My perception of the Crash of '99 is that the Japanese will get spooked by a crisis and will begin reallocating their funds from the USA markets to their own county.

Whether this is a bank failure, a North Korean missile attack, a great earthquake in Tokyo, a new war somewhere on our orb, I do not know.

I leave that prediction for the experts.

Other countries will panic the same, and the dollar will plummet.

When Wall Street crashes, so will the real estate market, bonds and trusts.

The banking industry will tank, and depositors will go postal.

These events will make world headlines day after day.

You will literally see the World As You Know It split apart into heinous fragments of panic and confusion, MUCH WORSE THAN YOU'VE EVER WITNESSED.

I know this will happen, which is why I'm freaking out now, even during this lull of prosperity.

I've concluded that the only true way of being prepared is to be close to God, who will provide a path to Heaven.

The narrow pathway will be a great tribulation with possible martyrdom.

No physical preparations will save your soul.


-- Randolph (, September 04, 1999.

Dear Will continue but not for long! nobody ever gets out alive! re- the Dark Age. they were only dark for the advocates of Monarchy and the Pax Romana. I'll just bet plenty of the barbarians were just thrilled to participate in the lootings of farms and cities. And these very same eventually aquired land and serfs,slaves and gold all at the expense of those who thought they could dig in and pray their way out.

-- Fats Kissinger (, September 04, 1999.

Trueblue, you have a problem with Romans 1 not me.

Liberty, et al: The author of that sermon was David Wilkerson. I thought that would be evident by the reference he made to his church on Broadway. Sorry, didn't mean to mislead anyone.

Liberty: I see Paul as God's apostle and fully inspired to speak as God's representative about divine judgment. I do not bestow any special authority to the King James Version or any version. I refer to the orignial languages for matters of truth and doctrine.

Dinosaur: Do not fear man who can only kill the body, but Him Who can destroy both body and soul. "Therefore, we can confidently say, He will never leave us nor forsake us, The LORD is my Helper, of whom shall I be afraid.


-- BB (, September 04, 1999.


Just plain ole common sense isn't it?

-- BB (, September 04, 1999.


When I read your sermon, at times I thought you were posting a transcript of David Wilkerson!

The very first posting of mine to which you replied was when I mentioned a newsletter from David Wilkerson and his latest book regarding God's plan to help believers survive during the forthcoming Depression.

I ordered several copies of that book.

Sad to say, but the copy given to my father, a successful businessman but a lost soul, has remained unread in his office.

The copy to my brother, a REAL Christian, has been neglected because he and his wife don't seem to have the time to read it.

Another copy went to a Christian coworker; she read it and believes bad times will happen. She has a new baby, so she has been preoccupied. However, she is aware that our future will grow very dark before Christ returns.

Another copy went to a DGI Christian who scoffs at the notion that America will experience a great depression anytime soon. He returned it with a huff. Go figure.

I am thankful to God that you have posted your messages. :)

-- Randolph (, September 04, 1999.

Will Continue:

When bardou was absent, I missed her. Then you appeared in cyberspace.

Your wit, like hers, sparkles often and rankles others.

I suppose this is a special gift. You Must Continue to refine it. :)

You have provoked many responses. Raise hackles at your own peril...

For weeks I have been curious about this matter: Has you husband ever posted here?

You seem to be the cybernaut of your family.

Also, what crops do you raise on your farm?

Currently I have a near harvestable crop of five different potatoes at my mother's homestead.

I don't have a basement or cellar, and my mother's basement is about 65 degrees Fahrenheit, which is too warm for storage of potatoes.

What do you suggest in the way of a root cellar?

I suppose I could remove a ton of dirt below my rental house and store the potatoes there, but that would be unusual.

I've never read of anyone excavating a minor cave beneath a ranch house.

What are your suggestions, *l*i*s*a*?

-- Randolph (, September 04, 1999.

Berry Picker:

Yes, I have purchased TP. LOTS of TP. An absurdly LARGE AMOUNT.

I have hidden the supply in safe places.

What I have learned regarding physical preparations is that it is NOT wise to place "all eggs in one basket".

And thus I have diversified.

Now I am concentrating on securing more paper towels and plastic bags.

You would be surprised at the small supply the average American family maintains.

Then again, if bartering becomes predominant after the stock market crashes and commodities are scarce, what will my neighbors have to offer me?

I am VERY prepared, but they are NOT.

They can not offer me anything valuable in trade except labor. And I don't need their hands to survive.

This is a conundrum. When they will be knocking on my door, what will I say?

"Sorry, I've got it. No, I've got that, too."

A part of me does NOT want to consider the implications of having DGI idiots for neighbors. But they WILL need help, and I'll try to remain cool and help them with the basics.

However, I can NOT allow them in my house until I've reallocated certain provisions to other locations miles away.

Then, and only then, will I feel safe in allowing them refuge.

You know that what neighbors see spreads gossip like kudzu.

-- Randolph (, September 04, 1999.

"The" great Depression has already occurred, and there will be nothing like it ever again. What's coming will be entirely different.

In a way, it was pre-ordained. So in that regard it will be perfect. things happen for a reason; turn, turn, turn.

-- Hiway (, September 05, 1999.

BB and Will, since we are quoting the book of Romans....

"Do not envy, have strife or malice, or deceive. Do not gossip, slander, be insolent, arrogant, or boastful." (Romans 1:29-30)

"Do not disobey your parents" (Romans 1:30)

Do not be sensless, heartless, or ruthless." (Romans 1:31)

"Those who do so deserve death" (Romans 1:32)

Golly, have you killed anyone who has forsaken these laws lately? No? Why not? How many have have you stoned to death for these transgressions? None? Why not? This is the same book that you are quoting as law!


"You who pass judgment on someone whatever point you judge the other, you are condemming yourself" (Romans 2:1)

"Do not brag about your relationship to God" (Romans 2:17)

"Love must be sincere" (Romans 12:10)

"Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse" (Romans 12:13)

"Do not repay anyone evil for evil" (Romans 12:17)

And finally, for this evening. Will, please pay attention to this one.

"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority exept that which God has established by God. Consequently, he (or in your case Will, she) who rebels against the authorities is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgement upon themselves. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punnishmnet but because of conscience" (Romans 13:1-2,5)

I think that includes Bill CLinton? Yes? Better get with the program and obey Bill, Will.

-- Uncle Deedah (, September 05, 1999.


So what's your point?

I responded to a person who believes homosexuality is a natural normal lifestyle. I quoted from Romans to show how serious it is under the wrath of God. I didn't write it, the apostle did. People want to call good evil and evil good. Be careful what you defend Uncle.

I started the quote with, "The wrath of God is revealed against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men..." That about covers all you mentioned above.

You left out homosexuality....I'm wondering why?

-- BB (, September 05, 1999.

No you silly, not me. You've missed my point, but you did admit that so I will try it again.

Where are the cries for the stoning of willful children who do not obey their parents? Why do I hear no cries to silence Cindy Adams the gossip columnist? Where are the voices calling for the death of the boastful Donald Trump?

"Those who do so deserve death" (Romans 1:32)

But no, it will not come for them, but look out if you are gay. That one is extra bad, even though it is not singled out as being any more evil than any other sin.

"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority exept that which God has established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authorities is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgement upon themselves. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punnishmnet but because of conscience" (Romans 13:1-2,5)

I wonder how many of the Christian Clinton bashers have read that passage? Aren't they as bad as the fags they hate? Sorry to upset the homo haters out there, but the ones I have met have been very nice friendly people. And I guess that the hatred I see coming from the Bible toters strikes a chord in my innately fair nature. The same as it does when I see hatred of any peaceful person because of who they are, if who they are does not harm others. I stand against bigotry, even bigotry blessed by the Bible.

-- Uncle Deedah (, September 05, 1999.


St. Thomas Aquinas, and Martin Luther King, Jr. more recently, have given us a bit more insight into when one must disobey a human law. I am an advocate of the natural law and believe that our Constitution is founded upon it. You make the mistake, however, in assuming that God's authority is well excercised in human authority at all times. In fact, it is not. A human law loses its binding upon a subject's conscience when the law and/or lawmaker does not conform to the requirements of law (supernatural and natural). Now this doesn't mean one should harm society by breaking any unjust law, but when an unjust law is so grievous that it harms the common good, then it may or must be disobeyed. I would argue that civil disobedience is not only a natural right in such a case, it may be our natural responsibility.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (, September 05, 1999.


Fair enough. Misunderstandings are not good. If I have a false imprssion of where you are coming from, then my apologies.

But I think you misunderstand where I'm coming from, as well. I'm not talking about that "gee, just think good thoughts and nothing bad will ever happen" outlook. That's not called positive thinking, that's called denial. I'm talking about playing the hand that's dealt you, and accepting that it's not always going to be a royal flush. It doesn't help your game any to sit and moan that you never seem to get any better than three of a kind. Better to look for a way to turn that into a winning hand. A person's time is always better spent, if they use it to look for ways to turn adversity into advantage. No, you won't always succeed, but you'll defintely improve your odds.

Not everyone will make it out to the country. They won't even make it out to where we are; that twighlight zone between the country and the city. For whatever reason, they'll still be in the inner city when 1/1/00 comes. they have to believe that there's some way they will be able to make it to keep hope alive. Otherwise they'll just give up and maybe take the quick way out.

I think people in the inner city have no choice, but to form intentional communities. I know that's against the conventional wisdom of the board, and is a course of action that is fraught with danger. However, if you live in the middle of zillions of people, you need back up, no matter how well prepared and/or armed you are. It does no good to tell those people that the other members of their community will rob them blind and they'll die anyway. Might happen - might not. It's about improving your odds, anyway you can. A person who has isolated themselves, in the middle of a major population center is a lamb to the slaughter, for sure, if violence breaks out.

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, when I say "positive thinking". Make the best of it. Learn to enjoy all the new skills you are learning as you prepare. If you think the economy's going to tank next year, and you'll be out of work, look for constructive ways to spend your newfound abundance of free time.

I speak from experience on that last one, our own personal economy tanked four years ago, when, due to budget cutback and a change of credentialing reequirements, I lost a job that I dearly and passionately loved, that I had held for 15 years. A year later, I was turned down for grad school, which I would have needed to be able to return to my beloved profession, at anywhere remotely close to the level I left at. At the same time, I was beginning to notice some funny breathing problems, which turned out to be a really bad enlarged cardio-myopathy, otherwise known as congestive heart failure. I could have collapsed and gave up. It was, after all the end of the world as I knew it, but what would that have gotten me, except unending misery, and a group of family and friends who ran, whenever they saw me coming. On the bright side, we wouldn't be nearly as well prepared as we are, if I didn't have all this extra free time. Sometimes things that look like total disasters, turn out to be something else.

Look at it as a challenge to be met, instead of as a stone to wear you down. It's not about denying what's coming, but about changing how you look at what's coming. Like the old saw says, "That which does not kill us, makes us stronger".

And finally, we have tons of preparations and have always advocated everyone doing the same...kinda hard to keep smiling when your starving...but we also have a well stocked bug-out bag, and view that as every bit as important as the stores.

-- Bokonon (, September 05, 1999.

Good grief Unc......I've never quoted anything from the Bible. I've never proclaimed to be a Christain. Once again, the christain phobia freaks behave like rabid dogs at the gate (ROTFLMAO).

Can't you simply recognize inappropriate behavior when confronted with it? Do you believe their agenda belongs in our public school systems, particularly at the elementary levels? Do you believe our court systems should be placing foster children in same sex homes and environments even against the will of some of these kids?

Get off of your 'burn the Christains at the stake' mantra and determine the stand you would take regarding their political demands. Bill Clinton is an asshole and so are those who allow his behavior. What of it? He's a two-faced lying bag of shit with a Bible in one hand and a socialist, anti-christain agenda in his pocket. He's a traitor and a free-wheeling criminal. What a waste of flesh and anyone who would defend him is deaf, dumb and blind. Anything else you want to know?

Fats Kissinger, read the above, and then wipe the foaming froth from your chin too. I guarantee you, there are more people on this forum digging in, hoping to 'pray' their way out of this in the CITIES than in the country. You need to give your Dark Ages theory a bit more thought. It won't be quite as applicable in the year 2000. The barbarions already live in the cities and will have more than enough to loot in their own backyards. By the time they're done, whoever remains will be met with a formidable force of country people. They'd be better off remaining clustered and ruling behind their own prison walls. Most of them have never traveled dirt roads in their lives. They are predators only. Country people know how to hunt. The movie "Crocodile Dundee II" comes to mind, "You call *that* a knife? *This* is a knife." The only formidable force that might show up in the country will be our government, taking control of America's bread basket. Of course, this would depend upon their ability to function. Resistence within their own ranks could be a possibility considering the self-serving criminal we have in the Whitehouse. No guarantees anywhere. Just improved odds. Life is a gamble after all.

-- Will continue (, September 05, 1999.

Can't you simply recognize inappropriate behavior when confronted with it? Do you believe their agenda belongs in our public school systems, particularly at the elementary levels? Do you believe our court systems should be placing foster children in same sex homes and environments even against the will of some of these kids?

Define inappropriate behavior for me. Does it include private activity between consenting adults? And what is their agenda? Why is the desire not to be hated for who you are wrong? And finally, no, not against the will of the children. But if you see them as evil, and their behavior as evil, you will have a problem with nearly everything they do. Likewise, if you view them as merely different, how they act is not such a big deal. As to their political demands, I don't support any special privledges for them or anyone else. I'm a Libertarian.

My quote of Romans about obeying those in authority was not meant as a show of support for Clinton, I used it as an example of how parts of the Bible are ignored on the one hand, while conversely it is also used as the unerring word of God on the other.

And I do not want to burn Christians at the stake, you silly wabbit. Nor am I a "Christian Phobia Freak", I married a Southern Baptist.

Believe it or not.

-- Uncle Deedah (, September 05, 1999.

Thank you Bokonon. We must have posted at the same time. I agree completely with what you've said. We are all faced with 'choice' minute by minute. We are ultimately responsible for everything in our lives, including those things that seem to be out of our control. In that particular case, we must be responsible for our perceptions of such events. You are correct. I'm sorry about your health problems. My Mother informed me yesterday that she has breast cancer. My Father survived bone cancer 10 years ago and then bladder cancer 3 years ago. Attitude is paramount as is acceptance of reality and then determination to be made better for it. Those unable to achieve this are the only victims of life. I did misunderstand you and feel greatful to be reminded that we are on the same side. Actually, most everyone on this forum is. There are as many 'styles' as there are finger-prints. That's one of the things I find so appealing about our group! We need to remind ourselves of our common goal from time to time. If TSHTF, we're in south-central Kansas. Just ask for the verbally aggressive 40 year old 'goat woman'(named L*i*s*a) that carries a copy of the Constitution in her pocket. By that time, I'm sure I'll have quite a reputation....If you mention my 'handle', we have a large collection of hammocks to put in the hayloft, all GIs welcome.

Randolph, Walton Seed had a great 'How the old-timers did it' section. Good ideas for various root cellars (with plans) depending upon one's geographical location. If you dig, be aware of your water table level. We don't grow crops, just have a large garden. We made arrangements with the farmer behind us (3 miles) to give him access to one side of our creek to winter his cattle, in exchange for helping us plant winter wheat on a back section of our property. He also stores a tractor in one half of our loafing shed. Barter, barter, barter! My husband hates the computer and isn't as opinionated as his wife, but is a total GI. Y2K supports his theory about technology and 'progress'! :)

-- Will continue (, September 05, 1999.

*Humor Alert*


I nominate you Most Likely to Remain Employed after the rollover. Your skills are truly amazing, my hair has been curled from darn-near clear across the country!

-- flora (***@__._), September 05, 1999.

OK Unc. Let me seeeee. (I have problems communicating).

INAPPROPRIATE = 1) men sucking on men. 2) women sucking on women.

That's my version anyway. For advocates of this unnatural sexual behavior to promote such by means of our political system is comparable to, shoving their lifestyle down the throats of the 'majority' who reject it as being considered 'acceptable' behavior. This in turn PROMOTES hate crime. If they'd simply take their rightful choice back into the privacy of their own homes (where it belongs) they would be met with far less opposition. Simple.

I do not 'use' the Bible as a road map or a weapon. Kindly refrain from this behavior in the future, where *I* am concerned. It's 'innapropriate'.

-- Will continue (, September 05, 1999.


I agree with your post 100%. I will have to go up and reread the sermon by David Wilkerson I posted. I certainly believe in civil disobedience when man's law conflicts with God's laws. b

-- BB (, September 05, 1999.


The difference is this: EVERYONE agrees that gossip, pride, boastfulness is wrong. But there is a potent political movement that wants to instill our culture that homosexuality is ok. Scripture teaches that it is wrong. You do agree with that don't you?

Also, you misunderstand what the Bible says about the punishment. It doesn't say we are to stone or kill anyone. When it says this behavior is deserving of death, it means what God will do. "The wages of sin is death." Some sins are worse than others. Certainly murder is worse than hatred and lust than adultery. When gays were in the closet it was treated as the other sins you mentioned. It is when they took off after Anita Bryant and now attempt to call this behavior normal that awakens opposition. They object to this behavior regarded as a sin, under the wrath of God and deserving of death.

I will agree that our human nature tends to regard some sins as worse than others. I am not perfect in that regard. But if you posted saying proud boasting is not a sin, I would have quoted the same passage and disagreed that the Bible teaches such a thing the same way I did about homosexuality.

As far as your shallow understanding of Romans 13 I would say this. In America the constitution is our governing authority. It tells us that when a government becomes corrupt it is our American duty to point it out, overthrow it, and reestablish a constitutional government.

-- BB (, September 05, 1999.

Hi Uncle! I believe it! :-)

You can love a person and still disapprove of their lifestyle or actions. I have quite a few homosexual friends from my days of working for Continental Airlines. They invite me back for birthday parties, etc. They know that I care for them a LOT, but I don't agree with their lifestyle choice.

The same holds true for a sister of mine who smokes. I don't love her any less because of it, but I sure wish she wouldn't smoke. I watched my father-in-law die from lung cancer, and it was a HORRIBLE way to die. I love her dearly, but I don't agree with her lifestyle choice.

Perhaps you've heard the old saying, "Love the sinner, hate the sin?" Maybe it should be, "Love the PERSON, don't agree with the lifestyle." It IS possible, but unfortunately most people can't separate the two. How sad for all of us! Jesus was capable of it. When a woman caught in the act of adultery was brought before Him, the law said to stone her. Jesus challenged her accusers "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." It didn't happen because they ALL had sin in their lives. Just like WE do. When Jesus forgave her, though, He told her to quit doing what was wrong. I wonder if she did?

-- Gayla (, September 05, 1999.

It didn't happen because they ALL had sin in their lives. Just like WE do.

Thank-you Gayla, I knew there was a reason why I like you. Some people have trouble with that plank in their own eye, including me. But sometimes I can't help it, I hate hate.

-- Uncle Deedah (, September 05, 1999.

I find it amazing that one simple question can result in so many insightful posts and personal disclosures.

-- Randolph (, September 05, 1999.

Just a note to Uncle Dodoo:

I've known many, many Christians. I've watched many others (Christians) from afar and I resent it when you smear Christians with lines such as: "(Christian)homo haters" and "the hatred I see coming from the Bible toters". Gee, you must be living in a different part of the world.

I have never witnessed such hatred as you describe coming from Christians. But I have heard "about it" from those who never associate with "Christians" and who are in complete "DWGI" about God Almighty, and His Word, Jesus Christ. These people twist the word "hate" and "tolerance" to promote their own agenda. Although, I see that you can quote the Bible somewhat, you sound like a DWGI.

I, myself, have my many frustrations with the modern church but I can say that Christians, for all OUR flaws, do not go about practicing hate and "homo" bashing although the political powers that be and the news media would love for you to believe it because it furthers their agenda.


-- S. David Bays (, September 05, 1999.

High five, Bays...........-smack-


-- Will continue (, September 05, 1999.


Sincere Christians are trying to love what God loves and hate what God hates. Sometimes, we're not that good at it. If I have made any statement that reveals hatred for any person please point it out, and I'll apologize.


-- bb (, September 05, 1999.


Forgive me please for using an overly broad brush. I'm sorry to include some good folks in my rant against the bad ones.

Some things irk the hell out of me, persecuting "cults", abuse of power over those who don't have it, hatred of folks who live a different life style, or have different skin pigmentation to name just a few. Injustice bugs me.

And while it is true that Christians are not all alike, the first thing I see as justification from those who bash the fags is the Bible. Right or wrong that's what I see.

Like I said, it bugs me.

-- Uncle Dodoo (, September 05, 1999.


You are forgiven.

...but "uncle", if we don't point out to our "friends" who are living a life or lifestyle that God has declared to be worthy of His everlasting condemnation, then we are guilty of sins of ommission and we are doing the ultimate disservice to our fellow man. That is, provided we point these things out in a spirit of love.

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Rev. 18:4


-- S. David Bays (, September 05, 1999.

"That is, provided we point these things out in a spirit of love."

So, was calling him Uncle Dodoo part of that spirit of love?

-- Gayla (, September 05, 1999.


You are on the right track. Jesus clearly and quickly condemned pride, self righteousness, and hypocrisy as the great sins. He condemned those who put religion above people, and sacrifice above mercy and forgiveness. In almost all of His parables, the villains were not the drug addicts, alchies, or prostitutes.

You are right to demand Christians love ALL people. Our failure to do this has brought reproach to our Lord. We too easily forget how far short we fall of the glory of God when we enter into debate to defend the "truth". We can have all knowledge, but if we have not love we have nothing at all. 1Cor.13. On a forum where flaming is an artform, it is easy to forget this love. God help us all.


-- BB (, September 05, 1999.

BB, you're alright!! :-)

-- Gayla (, September 06, 1999.

Gayla stop that! People will talk. ;-)

Q: Do those hearts keep blinking even when no one is reading the thread?

-- BB (, September 06, 1999.

BB: Why not? Love is invisible yet eternal.

-- Randolph (, September 06, 1999.

I don't know BB. Does the light stay on in your refrigerator when you close the door???? LOL....I'm sure Gayla's heart twinkles 24-7!

-- Will continue (, September 06, 1999.

Will C. that is exactly what I thought about when I read what BB said! :-) When I was a little kid, I tried to figure out that great mystery. Then my dad spoiled it by showing me the little button on the inside of the refrigerator. LOL!

BB, you were talking about the importance of love, and it just seemed fitting. :-)

-- Gayla (, September 06, 1999.

I believe you're right Will.

Hey Gayla, Now if you can only get Neil Sadaka singing "Turn on your heart light" when a scroller gets to the hearts I'll be really impressed. gg

-- BB (, September 06, 1999.

Oh my! Well, what is the title of the song that came out of? I don't recognize it.

Maybe on a Y2K forum, his song "Hungry Years" would be more appropriate? :-)

-- Gayla (, September 07, 1999.

I believe that is the name of it. Gayla, you have children. Didn't they see ET? This tune was written about ET's blinking heart? Oh well, the moment has now been lost. I mean really lost......"Hungry Years" is not familiar to me. What is it ...... country and western or maybe a russian tune? :)

-- BB (, September 07, 1999.

Sorry, BB! I watched ET myself (several times!) and I still don't remember the song. :-)

"Hungry Years" is from the 70's. Neil sang about the "lean" times in his life before he became a "star." I was just thinking we may be in for some of those "struggling" times ourselves next year.

-- Gayla (, September 07, 1999.

Pardon me for intruding into this love-fest, but maybe that was sung by Neil Diamond?

-- Uncle Deedah (, September 07, 1999.


See if this is the one that you are thinking of

Link to "Heartlight" in real audio

Scroll down a few, click on #1

-- Uncle Deedah (, September 07, 1999.

Smarty pants! :-P

(I still don't remember that song being in ET!)

-- Gayla (, September 07, 1999.

Never mind.... I see BB said it was written ABOUT ET.


-- Gayla (, September 07, 1999.

Welcome to the lovefest Deedah, thanks for bringing the music. LOL I hate that song. Excuse me....dislike that song. g And I'm not a fan of Diamond which is no reason why I should confuse him with the other Neil. It hit me today on the way to Baltimore too far from my computer to change it.

Gayla, Heartlight was written by Neil Diamond right after ET was made. It wasn't in ET but written about ET's heartlight. Sorry for the confusion.

-- BB (, September 07, 1999.

o u c h

-- Stan Faryna (, September 07, 1999.

That was funny, Stan! :-)

BB, you've been hanging around Flint too long! ;-)

-- Gayla (, September 07, 1999.

OK this ought to put the chill back in the air...

BB, is the God that says homosexuality will be punished by death the same one that says you can't eat anything that doesn't have a "cloven hoof"? (oh and no pork either, an exception to the rule)

Now, if your argument is "that's the slightly different God of Judaism", then why is your God any more valid? Why does your God let you eat bacon? And the standard argument that Christianity is "true" and "proven" because "Jesus rose from the dead" sounds p-r-e-t-t-y darn cult like to me.

-- a (a@a.a), September 07, 1999.


I love you man. b

-- BB (, September 07, 1999.


Your answer can be found in Acts 10, Acts 15, Mark 7 and Romans 14. Peace,

-- BB (, September 07, 1999.

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