Kappelman to Poole--change your erroneous statementsgreenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread
Thanks to cpr for posting this over at Nouveau Bonquers
Debunking the Y2K Hype
Anyone remember "Academic Freedom"?? College prof. places THREAT TO CENSOR POOLE's Web site online
Wednesday, 01-Sep-1999 11:42:09
X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/uk-y2k/ Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:22:16 -0500 From: "Leon A. Kappelman" Subject: [uk-y2k] addendum To: Graham Ross , firstname.lastname@example.org Reply-to: email@example.com X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12a) Priority: normal Delivered-to: firstname.lastname@example.org Mailing-List: contact email@example.com X-Mailing-List: firstname.lastname@example.org
fyi, i informed Mr. Poole yesterday of at least 8 factual errors about my work remaining on his site. Hopefully, these too will be corrected soon or, if fear, he may have to find a 4th web-hosting service in as many weeks. A respectful exchange regarding differences of opinion is a good thing, dishonesty is not.
Best wishes, Leon
And cpr's fellow nouveau bonquers' insightful responses
ONE ANSWER TO THIS CENSORSHIP EFFORT (cpr) (01-Sep-1999 12:48:11)
Unfortunatly, Kappleman is like a number of other academics (Paul Davis) (01-Sep-1999 14:39:54)
Re: Unfortunatly, Kappleman is like a number of other academics (Chris H.) (01-Sep-1999 16:13:45)
If Poole can't give out Flying Pigs, how come this reporter can call American Bankers "Chuckleheads"?? Its called "FREEDOM OF SPEECH" (cpr) (01-Sep-1999 18:52:52)
Re: If Poole can't give out Flying Pigs, how come this reporter can call American Bankers "Chuckleheads"?? Its called "FREEDOM OF SPEECH" (Robin Messing) (01-Sep-1999 19:28:04)
-- Pooles (email@example.com), September 01, 1999
looks like the asshole has been found out, good riddance
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 01, 1999.
Sent thru the Tinfoil "Andy" translator:
I hope,hope hope it's TEOTWAWKI so people like Poole will die...
-- Y2K Pro (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 01, 1999.
for the umpteenth time I and 99% of doomers on this forum do not want TEOTWAKI...got it?
neither do I hope for young poole's death.
what rock did you crawl out from under?
poole has been caught lying, and his web site as i've said many times before will cost lives if TSHTF - he is actively, like you pro, encouraging folks not to prepare...
that is his position and that is your position too as you remind us all on a daily basis.
i can sleep at night, can you and poole?
-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), September 01, 1999.
Or I'm sure that many of you are still pissed that many fell for the "Im a engineer and Y2K is TEOTWAWKI" post that showed the ignorance of many(Paging Dr. North).
Many though did not learn that anyone could do the secret identity post and the tin foil hats continue to filter out any form of common sense.
"Yours in stupidity...MrWayCool"
-- MrWayCool (email@example.com), September 01, 1999.
I lost most of my respect for Poole even before his stunt when he pretended to be a power company employee. It was when I saw Poole attempt to use his website to trash Ed Yourdon's reputation and yet on the same website claim to be a Christian.
Ends do not always justify the means. Talking about ideas is much better than talking about other people.
Y2k is more than a just a technical problem. Like politics, it has the power to turn brother against brother.
-- Do we know who (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 02, 1999.
The full response from CPR to L. Kappelman:
To Leon Kappelman,
I find the above to be nothing but an open threat and demand for Censorship. That is truly abhorrent no matter who is involved. You will recall that it was I who insisted that Gary North be kept as one of Russ Kelly's "Experts". Are there any who doubt that I do not oppose everything that North advocates??
I can find no factual errors in Poole's page with respect to you ONLY MATTERS OF HIS OPINION. Last I heard: Free Speech is protected in the United States and ACADEMIC FREEDOM IS PROTECTED ACROSS THE WORLD.
Such ideals are also the ........Founding Credo of the Internet and WWW. Short of endangering others as depicted by the Supreme Court as "Fire in a Crowded Theater when there is none", the rights to Academic Freedom and Free Speech are ABSOLUTE and we need to remember why that is so.
A visit to American Military Burial Grounds is often helpful in that regard.
That puts all in the unhappy position that we must defend even the Rights of the Gary North's of the world to their views which in turn would deprive us of the very same rights.
IT IS NOT TRIVIAL TO RECALL: "I may not agree with you,sir, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" nor who uttered those words.
Should that not be enough: we need turn to THOMAS JEFFERSON. For upon the inner top of the Jefferson Rotunda you find also other words to remember: "I shall tolerate no form of Tyranny Over the Mind of Man."
Such Freedoms give to all the Rights to their views or as the Cynics would state, "The right to make complete fools of themselves". PEER REVIEW NOT POLITICAL PRESSURE corrects the abuses in ACADEMIA OR .......perhaps you do not recall that now?? The Courts redress the damaged vis a vis First Amendment Abuse.
CENSORSHIP IS THAT FORM OF TYRANNY. Must you be reminded of the millions upon millions who have shed their blood for the Freedoms we have which all flow from the First Amendment?? Without the First, there are no other Freedoms.
The Courts exist for those who feel they have been harmed or damaged. Political pressure tactics to silence those who oppose another views amount to nothing short of JACKBOOT NAZISM, i.e. the refuge of INTELLECTUAL THUGS.
YOU, Leon Kappelman, have chosen to be a "Public Figure" vis a vis, Y2k and other topics. As such, the words of President Harry Truman apply: "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen".
Poole has made scathing comments about both North, Hamasaki and Yourdon. Yourdon did not respond with demands to close down Poole's site but rather answered Poole's comments. North has not been heard from. Other targets of Poole such as Cory Hamasaki, have debated him openly. You do not but rather choose to hint darkly of his motives. You might as easily have noted that Poole is a layman who seeks no revenues from his web site. His one link that even resembles an ad is to another non-profit person. If he has any motives that are hidden perhaps you could reveal them. Poole openly states his motives on his web site repeatedly. They may be summarized as his effort to dispel misinformation about the impacts of Y2k failures. This information has lead to a form of hysteria seen only in the USA and Canada save for a very few individuals in the U.K. and Australia.
The removal of his site from the WWJD ISP was under pressure that appears to have come from you. I for one, would dearly love to know how you can reconcile such efforts with FREE SPEECH AND ACADEMIC FREEDOM.
NOW.....before making such charges against Poole OR OTHERS, in public and "gloating" that you will force Mr. Poole's site to find another home in your De-FACTO EFFORTS AT CENSORSHIP, perhaps you would be MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT YOUR EIGHT DEMANDS UPON POOLE.
Quite frankly, given some of the terms you used on open lists about Mr. Poole, I see little reason he should not demand that you RETRACT YOUR STATEMENTS ABOUT HIM, HIS CHARACTER and HIS MOTIVES. AND DAMN FAST.
-- P. Harvey (email@example.com), September 02, 1999.