Should preppies "head for the hills" ? : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Three and a half years ago, having never heard of Y2K, my wife and I moved 70 miles from a city of 56,000 to a mountain getaway. The nearest town was 5 miles away with a population of 50. High up in the mountains of Montana we were going to live in quiet solitude, far from the maddening crowd. Our nearest neighbors were 3 miles down a one lane gravel road.

Our first summer was complete in all respects. We had beautiful scenery, terrific fishing, awesome views, deer, antelope, elk, bear, etc., in view on nearly a daily basis. We owned a few acres of mountain paradise surrounded by forest service land. Then came autumn and hunting season. Suddenly it was like living in a war zone, with few rules and nearly everyone you came in contact with was armed and loaded, (booze). Everyday and night we heard the sounds of rifle fire in close proximity. There were several hunters that totally ignored our numerous "NO TRESPASSING" signs. Those signs didn't apply to them I was told. These hunters had been hunting up here long before I ever bought this property. Who did I think I was, anyway? Don't even think about asking them to pick up the empty beer cans.

Then came winter. I had purchased a truck with a snowplow attached to the front. The county and forest service folks did not maintain our road to the highway. The reason cited was "no funds available for non priority roads." So when we wanted to check our mail, we plowed the snow from the road. I was told the 1st winter we lived there was a light one. Our 1st snow was in September, and our last was Memorial Day Weekend. The local ski resort only stayed open 5 months. After 3 years of spending all summer physically preparing for winter, (maintaining home & vehicles, stockpiling fuel, food, etc.)we discovered Y2K and its endless possibilities. My wife had had enough of the dream home in the mountains. The idea of having panicky "head for the hills" doomer types invading our retreat, possibly by force, in order to preserve themselves was more than my wife or I wanted to face by ourselves. We now live 110 miles further away. We don't live in the mountains. We live in a small town of 1,500 people. All of our nearby neighbors are "60 something" retirees. My wife and I have quietly prepped away these past 6 months & are finishing up the minor details. We have a wood burning stove in our garage, like our neighbors. If the Power Company fails to deliver, we move to the garage. Our "outhouse" is the shed next to the garage, with plenty of 5-gallon buckets and plastic garbage bags on hand, should we need them. We have enough provisions, not to survive, but to eat regular & nutritious meals 7 days a week for close to a year. The local economy is agriculture based, and farmers make up a majority of the community. The point is that there is safety in numbers. The crime rate here is so minimal to non-existent, compared to other areas. Had my wife and I stayed up in our dream home, cut off from society, we might have been accidently shot by stray bullets, or had to defend our lives from "have nots" escaping society. Here in town my wife feels safer and more secure. Isolation makes one feel insecure & paranoid. I have learned that we can and will live better and more meaningful lives by sharing our talents and energys, rather than hiding from the rest of the world. Despite what you think, they will find you.

-- Grissly Adams (GrisslyAdamsnot@beentheredone.that), September 01, 1999


Grissly- This is timely and very much on topic. You might be saving someone a lot of grief down the road. Thanks for sharing with us.

-- Gia (, September 01, 1999.

This was a recurring thread (if you will) last summer (98) in ref moving to the "country" meaning farmland. consider small towns but do it SOON as the typical small town will probably NOT want you there if you wait til Christmas as trust has to be EARNED in small towns (usually by your grandfather).


note lack of emoticons. NOTHING humorous here. c

-- Chuck, a night driver (, September 01, 1999.

Small towns aren't any more difficult to become accepted into than a big 'take a number please' city. That's just simply BS. Now if you're a jerk, you're going to have problems, most especially if you breeze into town thinking you're above the local peasants (like a good majority of city folks DO when they move into the country). If you sit at home waiting for 'the welcome wagon' to come around, you'll get nowhere. If you lack people skills , remain annonymous in cities. If you have people skills and are open to a change in pace and lifestyle, you'll do just fine. Let's be real. Cities aren't exactly my idea of warm and friendly. If you have a support system, don't leave it. If you don't, you'd still be *far* better off with country strangers than city strangers. This recent flow of 'Deliverance' mentality is also ignorant beyond belief. However, if you don't know any better than that, stay in the cities. We don't take kindly to jerks.

I'm sorry. What kind of a fool would move up into the high country of Montana and suddenly be surprised by the Winter? Did they think hunters only existed on television episodes of 'The Great Outdoors'? If you knew how many drunk drivers you passed in one evening going home from the theater in a city, you'd probably never leave your home again. Don't know that I've ever heard of a hunter taking out an entire family with one shot before.

-- Will continue (, September 01, 1999.

Will, It can't be a 10, I would have to move back to the farm outside of Pawnee Rock near Barton County. Maybe I could go active again and get back to Bosnia for rollover. The weather is better.

-- Chief (bmc@sealres.chitown), September 01, 1999.

Well Chief, at least you'd be surrounded by people who know how to fight for what they want! LOL

I'd rather have you HERE!

-- Will continue (, September 01, 1999.

Thanks Grissly, Your post made alot of sense. We've had this scenario-based discussion in my family. I do think even the people who are living more rurally NEED to network with either trusted neighbors, or people who will come there to ride it out together, should times get bad. I have also had a couple unpleasant experiences with hunters who feel they own the whole country. The posted signs do mean NOTHING. And no, I have never heard of a hunter taking out a family, but the point is, that it would not necessarily be a few guys out looking for Bambi, but some armed and somewhat desperate and/or morally- challenged people who are looking for what YOU HAVE, and they are prepared to TAKE it. I still remember the post that said a fixed point is the hardest to defend. We have children to consider, and would rather not be a target in the first place. We are moving this month to (?) and I'm still praying that some trusted friends will work with us. Problem is, they are barely GI. sigh Best wishes to you!

-- Mumsie (, September 01, 1999.

What a scenario! Crazied "doomers" in Montana will abandon their retreats and preps in the dead of winter, burn all their gas driving over mountain roads buried in snow, spray their ammo all over the fuckin' woods (while drinking beer in the -40 degree cold), and then maybe twist arms for whatever they want.

-- this is a (, September 01, 1999.

What makes you think only doomers and those who prepared will have arms? Or that we were only discussing Montana? I don't live in Montana. Have any idea how well armed the gangs in the big cities are? They know how to drive too.

-- Mumsie (, September 01, 1999.

They'll have PLENTY to steal in the cities and won't need to steal gas to get there, right?

-- Will continue (, September 01, 1999.

Have thought about this quite a bit, and wondered if the newer neighborhoods, ie., middle to upper middle class, be more susceptible to unwanted 'visitors'. The gangs who live in the hood or lower middle class neighborhoods know they've either stolen what there is to steal in their own neighborhood, or realize that many people are too poor to have much 'stuff' to steal.

Will they think the 'pickins' are better out in the burbs?

-- Wilferd (, September 01, 1999.

If it goes that bad, not many people will be left in the big cities to bother us country folks. As for trespassing hunters, you only have to escort a couple off at the point of a bigger gun for the word to get out, at least it worked for me.

-- Goldbug (, September 01, 1999.

The boyz from the Hood may think the burbs will be easy pickins until they find themselves in their first 'burban crossfire'.

-- Porky (Porky@in.cellblockD), September 01, 1999.

Given the choice, "the hills" is still a far safer place for Y2K than anywhere else. As Goldbug said, just about anyone who has thoughts of escaping to your neck of the woods will probably die before they make it out. Don't forget, the hunters go there now knowing they can always go home. It's a different story when one is going there to live. The isolation won't be great fun, but it greatly reduces the chance that someone will kill you for your preps.

-- (its@coming.soon), September 01, 1999.

It will be a while before the gangs make it to the hills because they will be pilfering everything they can down in the city and burbs. The people I am concerned about are the locals who are not prepared, they will be the one's who will cause you the most grief. Some people are cut out for the mountain life and some aren't, but you made the right choice Grizzly.

-- bardou (, September 01, 1999.


How many on this forum have killed another human?

Ok then- how many have seen someone killed?

In your opinion, is part of preparing, contemplating both?

-- David Butts (, September 01, 1999.

YUP. Anyone who isn't, is on the wrong forum. They need to locate www/ We are survivors/r-us@y2k.


-- Will continue (, September 01, 1999.

If you have guns and don't expect to use them, then you may as well get rid of them because they will not do you a bit of good. Sell them and buy more food but keep the ammo for barter. And yes, I have seen someone get shot and it took me years to overcome my fear of guns.

-- bardou (, September 01, 1999.

I've never seen someone shot and never have had to kill. Our wars have been full of people just like me. I have a family friend who is 36. He 'accidentally' shot his best friend when he was 10, and still carries that baggage. I watched my husband die for nine months due to an 'accident'. I take great measures to avoid 'accidents'. That's why I'm here. I also sat in a funeral home room with a mother for 4 days. Her 18 year old son laying in a coffin with 5 bullet holes in him. It was not an 'accident'. If you've been lucky enough to have never experienced what may be required of you emotionally, in a life or death situation and the results of such.......lucky, lucky you. You need more than beans on your list of preps. It's no fun to be hard or tough, but it beats being dead. I suppose some of us would call this level of mentality just another phase of GI. I think of it as survival and have for years. Don't fail the test. In life, 'be prepared' does not simply mean camping gear and canned goods.

-- Will continue (, September 01, 1999.

Hi, David! There was an excellent thread on the topic of your query a couple of weeks ago. There was a link to a site that was meant to prepare one to contemplate the stark reality of the matter, and the photos were very difficult to look at. However, as the contributor of the link said, this is a necessary part of reality preparation. As unpleasant as it is, the alternative is worse, don't you think?

-- Elaine Seavey (, September 01, 1999.

Elaine...I missed that link. Do you have it?


-- Taz (, September 01, 1999.

In life, 'be prepared' does not simply mean camping gear and canned goods.

Very true. Mental preparation is just as important as physical preparation, but I think many people neglect this aspect to the point where they're almost Polly in their denial of reality. It's one thing to get your generators and extra food and act like it's all going to be just like a big camping trip. It's not.

The hardest part to deal with, though, is that this isn't going to be like war, so even your wartime experiences will be tested. You're not fighting trained soldiers from some distant country, you're up against people much like yourself, some of them you may even know, who are desperate enough to kill you and your family in order to survive. It won't matter if they are young or old, male or female, you'll be just as dead. If you want to survive, you should be prepared to kill.

-- (its@coming.soon), September 01, 1999.


Thanks for your time. As a person that has spent time in the "toolies" I would say that the threat is not guns but winter conditions. Either you can handle it or not. Guns are just a small aspect, the ability to handle the cold and snow is the real consern. No one is going to be doing the great hike to hit on your supplies in the middle of nowhere.

The problem is the psycological and physiological elements of living in isolation like that. I am sure that most have no idea when they have lived in the city or the "burbs" all their life. As you mention having a truck and a plow is needed when the snow can drift - fall 4' or more overnight. It is just a tough go.

This "heading for the hills" is just a pipe dream for much of North America, I recommend agianst it at this time if folks have no experiance in such matters. People can go mad in such curcumstances, get themselves trapped by forgeting the simple things.

If folks are undecided on where to be may I recommend living where your heart is. Having friends or family is the most important thing about pulling through tough times.

For those that "head for the hills" always have someone to keep the "home fires burning". If you don't understand what this means never go into the bush.

Guns? Ha! Not a concern in -40, what you want is a snowmobile and a chainsaw, the two most important items. The only thing that will be after your supplies will be bears and other four legged threats.

-- Brian (, September 01, 1999.

"As for trespassing hunters, you only have to escort a couple off at the point of a bigger gun for the word to get out, at least it worked for me."

Well, there were six of them (strangers), one of me, and I decided to let them go after Bambi or Gobble Gobble for the time being. Actually, I wouldn't have minded had there been more courtesy extended.

I will not hesitate to protect my children or any other innocents who are vulnerable and dependent. Whatever that means. That decision is made and crystallized within. I think it is unrealistic, however, for any of us to say we know "exactly" how we will react or respond. I used to glibly spout things off when younger ("If I was ever...if that was me...I would do this or that"), until what "only happened to others" happned to ME. Unseasoned men in battle behave in unpredictable ways. People that you "expect" to act one way (strong and brave), very often don't, and some quiet mild-mannered person will be the one with the inner strength, fortitude and previously unrecognized leadership skills. I pray that I will be able to do what I have decided is right and necessary.

Bottom line....We are better off working with others we can trust.

-- Mumsie (, September 01, 1999.

These are all great points.

Indeed, if you are going to "head for the hills" (with very little time remaining to do so prior to 1/1/2000), think through ahead of time what you will be potentially facing. As Will continue noted, figuring out the kind of weather should not be hard. Expecting to be away from civilization, yet at the same time expecting the county to provide road maintenance, is downright silly.

No matter what you do, always understand that indeed They were there before You, and should things get bad, you may need Their help (and maybe they will need yours). Its a thin line. For instance, where I live on a mountain top in Northwest Arkansas (which, thankfully, does not have much snow!), the "rule" regarding property is: You can put up all the signs in the world on unfenced land, and they will be ignored; you can put up fencing and signs, and you will be hated and resented; you can put up fencing and no signs, and your property rights will be respected. I didn't make up these strange rules, but I accept them as being the things that I need to know.

-- Jack (, September 01, 1999.

Will continue, no one said anything about being surprised by winter in Montana. Only that it lasts a long time. Had we been surprised, we wouldn't have had the snow plow. The stray bullets mentioned are when, in a wooded area, a hunter misses his shot, the bullet keeps going through the trees, and possibly goes through the walls of the home, hitting someone inside. There were a few people that did come up to the home during the 3 years we were there, and told us they had no idea there was a home "way up there." Except for the forest service road, the area is surrounded by lodge pole pines for miles.

-- Grissly (, September 01, 1999.

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