THis may seem a foolish question, but I couldnt get an answer from any of my co-workers, just kind of a glazed stare-so here goes. In case of nuclear accident, or any scenario that includes fallout, as emergency department staff we are trained in the decontamination of individuals exposed to fallout-and that includes stripping them naked and liberally washing and rinsing with large quantities of water, until noticable radiation is decreased. The purpose is to remove contaminated dust and dirt particles from the body surface and any clothing, skin etc. Here goes the question-if there is in fact an accident (or say attack for that matter) then it is likely that the electric power in that area would be affected, and potentially down over a large are of the recieving facilities. Without electric, how are we going to get the large quantities of water that we would need to decontaminate potentially large numbers of patients in a timely fashion? I know of no facility where I have worked where the outside hoses or showers designated to be used in such a fashion are connected to the emergency generating system. In a larger event, the generators will not last very long, as the fuel supply will soon be exhausted. Civil defense or other authorities may just be unable to assist(having worked in a So Fla hurricane where our emergency generator failed and never came on line, and personnaly been the one to contact the authorities-with no response, I know that even in such a lower grade emergency a response may not be forthcoming) Just wondering about this, and if any suggestions might be made. For a small, localized event with few victims, another facility might be the answer-one where the power is not affected. But for a large event with potentially large number of victims- and power grid failure-how do we do what we are taught without a water supply? I never thought about this before, in all the years of drills. Maybe learning about hte interconnectedness of things helps bring up failure scenarios we havent thought of before. TIA

-- Anonymous, August 28, 1999

Answers

This seems like the doomer question to end all doomer questions.. and so early in the morning. --vbg-- But if I dig way back in my memory banks to chem classes, we did an experiment using a geiger counter to prove that - with a given quanntity of water - it was more effective in clearing radiation from a vessel using repeated small quantities of water rather than using the water all at once. So.. perhaps a series of tubs? Or even cloth or paper washcloths - wet, scrub down, discard, repeat, repeat, repeat.

-- Anonymous, August 28, 1999

Sorry, dont mean it as a doomer question at all, its just part of the job, m'am : ) Been playing decontam drills almost every year since the late 70's, so the scenario isnt strtling to me, but I guess others may take it that way, or that I was being facetious. The reason I posted the question here, after mulling it over several days, is that I might get some solid info from nuke power folks who have already copnsidered that possibility. Your reply is appreciated. Anyone who can steer me to some solid info on decontam procedures, Id appreciate it. All the info Ive ever had is the rather task oriented procedure to strip and rinse.

I'd rather submit some information and options to the powers that be at the hospital if I need to bring hte subject up. At bery least, I would think they would want to know about the water supply that we have designated, if it will actually pump under emergency power, and where the water is copming from.

No offense or doomerism (is there such a word? LOL)intended with this question, I am seeking info from the forum where the experts are. Figure somebody somewhere has already solved this dilemma, dont want to reinvent the wheel if its not necessary.Thanks

-- Anonymous, August 28, 1999

Contact the National Terrorism Preparedness Association in St. Petersburg Florida. They give free training to any group of 30 or more people at your location.

-- Anonymous, August 28, 1999

Laura, How about those water sources we used before the advent of electricity - creeks, rivers, lakes and oceans? In a real emergency, any water would do to wash off contamination....after all, every nuclear plant is on the water...just pick the upwind side, lol.

Regards

-- Anonymous, August 29, 1999

Sorry Laura if I trivialized your question by calling it a "doomer" question. I recognized - AND APPRECIATE - that you recognize that scenarios COULD be a whole lot more "worst case" than usual if we lose infrastructures like power and water. If you get some better answers please share them here and elsewhere. Another part of that worst case scenario would be that there could be way too many people exposed for the professionals to deal with. Or people may not be able to get to the hospitals or decontamination areas. It could be important for individuals to have some basic knowledge on what to do in that case.

-- Anonymous, August 29, 1999

Laura,

I am not in the military but I have had the priviledge of participating in some military medical training. After spending 15 minutes in 100 degree Texas weather in full MOPP gear (a body suit, enclosed hood and respirator for chemical/biological contamination situations) I will tell you that decontamination is no picnic. It is incredibly labor intensive, slow, exhausting work, as you probably also noted in your training. For chemical decontamination, if prtective suits are worn, fine finger motor control is lost, heat stroke rapidly becomes a concern in warm weather, water intake for the workers let alone for decontamination is a neccessity. The details for radiation decontamination might be slightly different than for biological or chemical exposures but the difficulties are similar. In the best of circumstances the logistics are daunting even more so if it is a mass cassuality situation. With further infrastructure problems it might be neccessary to improvise while keeping in mind the basics of the problem. Or to paraphrase FF, if it gets to that point you're at the "go jump in a lake" stage, as one possible solution. Let's hope and prey we avoid that scenario.

-- Anonymous, August 29, 1999

I would think that the fire depts., either on a nuke site or in the community, would have pumper trucks that can "flush" and fill (from a source)under their own power. Of course their limitations are obvious.

-- Anonymous, August 30, 1999

Bearing in mind that the discarded clothing shouldn't be worn until it's decontaminated too....

-- Anonymous, September 08, 1999