ALIENS SPOTTED IN WACO FILM AND THEY RESEMBLE THE STITTS FAMILY!!!!! (or, possible real Y2k glitch with BIG insurance co...... : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Sorry, had to do something to get some attention to this matter. Whew! Am reposting my earlier reposting of ...... anyhow, things are getting buried here and flame me if I am wrong but this should get checked out! Here it goes:

Hello folks - I have been trying to figure out what to do about an answer to an old thread that looks like it was not read by many (no answers after it on the thread). The author sounded concerned about identifying the company but made it pretty clear. This seems legit but since the insurance company discussed is likely either Farmers or State Farm it is also likely that many of you have policies with them. Take a looksee at your renewal cards.

"Actually, Diane, it's not just the tip of the small business iceburg.(snip)(continue) Anyway, I received my new insurance card from the insurance company named after the people who grow our food. Yes, I am new at this and a little nervous about naming names. I am sure that you can figure it out. They are huge. My insurance is renewed at six month intervals. On the card, the effective date was 10/16/99, the expiration date was also 10/16/99. My finacee's father, with the same company, had the same problem. When he went to get it straightened out, the agent told him that "millions" of renewals were sent out like that and that the mistake occurred because their computer could not read past 2000 and defaulted by just listing the same value for effective date and expiry date. Granted it's not the end of the world, but it leads to one to certainly wonder. If a seemingly simple problem hasn't been fixed by such a big company this late in the game, what about other companies and government with more complex systems? (snip).

I have emailed the poster about using his full post (and the email addy turned out to be fake) but felt if I snip out identifiers then this reposting was ok. Please correct me if I was wrong, but this seemed to be of interest.

-- Kristi (, August 27, 1999

Answers Well, A few hours later and still no interest - I guess my title should have read "ALIENS SPOTTED IN FILM OF WACO AND THEY RESEMBLE THE STITT FAMILY!!!!!". Sigh........ This place is becoming a Jerry Springer show.

-- Kristi (, August 27, 1999.

-- Kristi (, August 27, 1999


I use Farmer's Insurance Company, Inc. and have not noticed the problem of expiration dates on any of my policies. But our six months renewal is due in Oct of 1999. I will be sure and check out the date when the new renewal papers come.

-- Carol (, August 27, 1999.

Kristi dear,

With all due respect, though your post has merit and substance your headline was in bad taste.

Now if you had put "ALIENS SPOTTED IN WACO FILM AND THEY RESEMBLE Y2K PRO!!!!"  THAT would have been funny.

-- INVAR (, August 27, 1999.

Mine comes up Sept 22. Will letcha know. State Farm, Tx.

-- lisa (, August 27, 1999.

Don't have insurance with either of the companies above, but last Spring my company did have problems getting the bill out to me on time...skip one whole month and I called them to ask about it...then the next month it was later in the month with an appropriately different later than usual due date. The following month it was a week later still. I began to suspect they were doing it all by hand. I did ask and was told they had changed computer systems and were having delays. Since I don't have to make another payment until ... oh, gee, that's October, 99...won't know till then if they've straightened it out.

I guess we all know who will be held liable if any of us can't prove we've got up-to-date insurance.

-- Shelia (, August 27, 1999.

I have a chatty relationship w/ my State Farm insurer, and called her to see what's what. For what it's worth, she says no problems at either local or national office so far--but I'm in Canada. She says there's a contingency plan wherein branch offices will be staffed w/ crews right through the rollover to process claims manually. She seemed to appreciate the questions, and sounded proud/calming to be giving an authoritative answer.

After hanging up, I realized I should have asked whether they were laying in CB radios for branch-to-branch comms.

-- PH (, August 27, 1999.

Why did you have to remind me to pay this? I already got my renewal from State Farm (due tomorrow). The Renewal Expiration Date is Feb 25, 2000.

-- Anita (, August 27, 1999.

I just renewed my State Farm car insurance. The expiration date on my card is February 25, 2000.

-- Homer Beanfang (, August 27, 1999.

Farmers. Renewed car insurance at end of July. Good thru 1/30/00 and 1/30/2000. So they're windowing and using 4 digits.

If January delivers blackouts, mayhem and gas rationing, no mail delivery, and non-functioning insurance co, what would be the point of continuing to pay car insurance?

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (, August 27, 1999.

By the way all you State Farm customers,

I heard on the news recently that there is a big lawsuit against State Farm (and others?) because of sneaky weasling of higher premiums from customers. I got excited because it had happened to me awhile back: I had State Farm Ins. since I turned 18 (over 15 years) and ALWAYS had an auto policy in force because my agent's secretary told me to never lapse my coverage or my rates would be recalculated in a higher direction. During several state to state moves and car sales/purchases I was careful to always keep an auto policy in effect but a few years ago they started disclosing HOW you were rated. I discovered that I was being rated at a "3" or so instead of the A++ I should have been (about 30% difference in premiums). To make a long story shorter I contacted my agent at that time and he was absolutely no help, was insulting, etc. The problem was that State Farm gives you credit for longevity by tracking your POLICY number - YOU do not have a distinctive ACCT. number (like you do with Farmer's) so if you sell a car and they do not keep the same policy number active you lose all the "credit for time served" that you had earned. If you get a new policy number you are rated as a new customer. I am oversimplifying it but the result was I had to change to a different agent who recognized immediately what had happened, told me that corporate would not like it but he would take care of it. He did, and I got over $1000 back and 30% lower premiums plus other benefits of the better ranking (like no penalty first ticket/accident, etc.). By the way there was no place in the policy fine print that explained how to avoid the problem - your agent was supposed to look out for it.

At the time I wondered if this happened to other people without their knowledge and that there was the potential for a class action if so but had no desire to pursue it. I have since left State Farm for Nationwide - saving another $500 per year on 2 car policies. Good luck!

-- Kristi (, August 27, 1999.

Sorry, but your headline is like making fun of how skinny the prisoners of Dachau looked. Waco was mass-murder; women and children were deliberately burned alive by our government. Waco is our kristalnacht, our wake up call - in the Name of God, I am begging you: don't laugh it off. I have a sense of humor, but it just doesn't apply in this case. Rent the video "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," available at most video rental stores. It substantiates my accusation with clear photographic evidence and expert testimony.


-- Liberty (, August 27, 1999.


Your insistence that the government committed mass murder at Waco is irresponsible at best and criminally stupid at worst. Let me throw out a couple of items for your Waco database.

(1). After the ATF agents were killed (Thats killed as in DEAD), there were numerous occasions where people left the Davidian compound with messages from Koresh to the authorities. In these drugged-out ravings, Koresh proclaimed that none of his followers would surrender and would die first. These messengers, two of whom went back and forth a few times, told the FBI and others that Koresh and some other hard-liners were seriously messed-up on drugs and there would be no rational solution coming from inside the compound.

(2). As a result of these reports, the military hostage rescue teams were called in as advisors. Congress made this possible over 20 years ago and it has always been on public record that the 3 Delta Force personal were on-site, as well as the National Guard. This is allowed when drugs are involved. Now, give me a break, I am not suggesting that drugs were the major issue here but the reported usage by eyewitnesses gave the authorities a reason to call-in the military.

(3). Koresh let it be known that he had ordered caches of explosives to be strategically placed in order that the entire compound could be destroyed and take many of the surrounding forces with him and his people at the end. This information resulted in the authorities taking measures that they had attempted to avoid.


Remember Jim Jones? Another whacked-out freak who saw his show coming to an end. Did he tell his followers that he had decided to commit suicide and anyone who wanted could leave on their own free will? Did he give those poor people a chance to livean option to take their freedom and leave? HELL NO AND NEITHER DID DAVID KORESH. He and his small group of enforcers, drugged-up and sparks flying from their heads, kept all of those poor children, wives, fathers, and others from leaving the compound and took away their lives.

IT THAT SIMPLE ENOUGH FOR YOU BLATHERING IDIOTS TO UNDERSTAND? I cant wait to read your posts on this. Show the world how stupid you are with your off the wall crap that has no basis in reality. Rave On!

-- For (, August 27, 1999.

INVAR and Liberty,

I apologize if the method I used to draw attention to this matter offended you. It was not intended to do so or to redicule what happened at Waco or is happening to the Stitts. It just seems sometimes that there is so much "off topic" info here that it is almost impossible to sift and sort it out. I am open minded enough to see that EVERYTHING is interconnected therefore EVERYTHING is on topic but .......

One thing I have learned is that you can't please everybody all of the time and I refuse to be so afraid of offending SOMEBODY that I don't speak. Perhaps if I would have thought it through more I would have chosen different wording but you know what????? I didn't!

And excuse me, but when did the Waco debacle rise to the level of Dachau? I agree it was terrible but the circumstances were quite different and the only ones I feel sorry for from Waco are the children. The adults made their own choices. And even though I feel badly for the Stitt family and that the zoning laws might seem unreasonable they (the adult Stitts) are responsible for putting their family in jeopardy........(period). Flame away! This is simply my opinion.

-- Kristi (, August 27, 1999.

There were more than 3 Delta force personnel at waco.Already verified. Those personnel were up front and active. Already verified. You can even count them in the pictures from that time (if you choose) incindiary devices were used against the compound. verified Members escaping out the back (out of camera view) were shot according to Texas Rangers evidence. Koresh, AT ANY TIME could have been apprehended on many of his trips into town, without any hoopla whatsoever. NO CONFRONTATION WAS NECESSARY!!!! Sounds to me like you are believing their spin to justify their trial run.

-- Will (Will@not.say), August 27, 1999.


I was offended because you associate the absurdity of "alien" sightings with the "evidence spotted in Waco film" such as evidence that the public is now aware of, but that the government and the media will not acknowledge. Specifically, the film of the ATF/FBI/DELTAFORCE pumping a flammable solvent in the Davidian home, setting it on fire with a pyrotechnic device, and firing upon those who were trying to escape. This evidence, on Forward Looking Infra Red footage, and interpreted for us by the man who holds the patent on this technology, can be seen in the video "Waco: The Rules of Engagement." There is much more vital information on the events that took place, and subsequent government coverup, in this well made and engaging film. You can rent this video at your local video store, or order it on the web. It's won documentary awards and was nominated for an Academy Award for best documentary. When you watch it, you will understand why many many people believe that the Waco slaughter represents a government gone mad. You'll understand why I believe this is so serious, and entirely comparable to the atrocities of the Nation Socialist Workers Party in Germany - the Nazis.


First of all, let me say that all one needs to do to understand the claims and counter-claims being made here, is to see the film: "Waco: The Rules of Engagement." It explains clearly the false claims of drug manufacture and drug use by Koresh and the Davidians, and why they were made. Leaving aside the question of who might be "blathering" on this post, and since everyone can't see the film right away, let's address this drug accusation (which has long been dropped, because it is so embarassing both to the military Joint Task Force, and the ATF). Ordinarily, the military might of the United States cannot be turned against it's own citizens for any reason. The "drug loophole," allowing the military to be used, was a pretext on the part of the ATF. At the end of this post is an exerpt from the essay, "Can Soldiers be Peace Officers?" (the entire text is available here: ). It explains pretty clearly how the ATF claim of drug manufacture was a cynical ploy, to get the military involved. It fits into an accellerating pattern of police militarization and abuse which should be familiar to everyone who reads this forum (innocent people being shot in "dynamic entry" raids, cash being seized and remaining unrecoverable, even when no criminal charges are filed, much less proven).

For, in this, and in other posts, you keep harping on the fact that "FOUR" agents were "KILLED DEAD!" - as if the fact that the Davidians defended themselves against a full-scale military assault (and some agents, predictably, died) were sufficient reason to gas and fry and shoot some 80 or more men, women and children. This is consistent with the facts presented in the video "Waco: The Rules of Engagement" (available at your local video rental store). Comments by agents on the scene ("I hope they have fire insurance," etc.), as well as the hoisting of the ATF flag on the ruins, and destruction of evidence, combined with the damning evidence of the FLIR camera footage, makes it clear that the agents burned the place down in revenge for their fallen comrades, that, after the "FOUR" agents were "KILLED DEAD," the death of everyone in that compound was a foregone conclusion. Just as the ATF originally sought a raid for publicity purposes and actively avoided direct contact with the Bureau, sought out by Koresh himself, the ATF, once their beloved warriors were so cruelly struck down (by the people whose women and children they opened fire on) had no intention of letting any of the Davidians out alive.

Your comparison of the Davidians with Jim Jones is asinine. Once again, I refer those in danger of trusting you to the film, "Waco: the Rules of Engagement." Koresh was held in high esteem and held a leadership position, but the psychiatrist in charge stated that the Davidians were NOT a "cult," and that Koresh did NOT fit the profile of a "cult leader." In fact, in about the only humorous moment in the whole film, the psychiatrist states that, in trying to understand how the events at Waco could have happened, he started out looking at the psychology of the Davidians, but soon determined that the psychology of the government agents was much more significant.

Here's that exerpt, regarding the bogus drug allegations and the use of the military:

III. The Drug War Loophole The exceptions mentioned above are minor in comparison to the largest loophole in the Posse Comitatus Act: the "drug law" exception. Normally, the (p.624)obligation to reimburse the military for the loan of equipment is a powerful incentive not to use military equipment in domestic law enforcement. A police chief will be hesitant to borrow military helicopters if his department will have to pay for them. However, when drug laws are involved, the military assistance is free and greater use of military personnel is allowed.[21] As if to make the "drug war" a literal war, the U.S. military has created special Joint Task Forces (JTF) whose primary mission is to assist civilian drug law enforcement agencies.[22] Some JTF leaders foresee that not-far-distant day when restrictions against use of the military in domestic law enforcement will be abolished completely.[23]

A. The Drug Claims as a Pretext for Federal Intervention at Waco

As part of the planning for the Waco raid, BATF went to the Joint Task Force Six (JTF-6), which covers Texas, and asked for training, medical, communications, and other support. The JTF-6 staff explained that they could only be involved if the case were a drug case.[24] If the case were not a drug case, BATF could obtain assistance from other parts of the military, but would have to pay for it.(p.625)

Immediately thereafter, BATF asserted that the Waco case was a drug investigation; Branch Davidian prophet David Koresh was supposedly running a methamphetamine laboratory.[25] The military should have known that the drug claim was merely a guise; BATF came up with the allegation only after being told of the benefits of such an allegation. In addition, the military prepared a memorandum for BATF on methamphetamine labs, and the precautions essential for dealing with such a lab.[26] However, when the paper was presented to BATF agents, they openly ignored the information in front of the soldiers who prepared it.[27] Further, agents from the civilian Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) who were assisting BATF also expressed no concerns about how BATF was addressing the risks of a meth lab in its operational planning, which similarly should have indicated to the military that the allegation was a mere pretext.[28]

With this knowledge, JTF-6 signed onto the mission of "training a National Level Response Team [BATF strike-force] for Counter Drug operations," in "Support of BATF Takedown of Meth Lab."[29] According to documents received from the U.S. Special Operations Command under Freedom of Information Act requests, the Joint Training operation (JT002-93) was approved due to a request from BATF dated February 2, 1993, requesting U.S. and Texas National Guard assistance in serving a federal search warrant "to a dangerous extremist organization believed to be producing methamphetamine."[30] The Army assistance at Waco would supposedly be "in direct support of interdiction activities along the southwest border."[31] (Notwithstanding the fact that Waco is approximately 300 miles from the southwest border. Moreover, the original claim was that Koresh was manufacturing methamphetamine, not that he was importing it from Mexico.)(p.626)

Had BATF actually been planning to take down a methamphetamine lab, its plans would have been far different. Testimony at the 1995 congressional hearings indicated the potential dangers of an explosion if a meth lab is not taken down properly. For instance, because a stray bullet could cause a major explosion, a "dynamic entry" (a violent break-in, the BATF's method of "serving" the Waco search warrant) would be an extremely risky, disfavored approach.[32] In addition, the chemicals involved in methamphetamine production are toxic, capable of injuring lungs, skin, liver, kidneys, the central nervous system, and potentially causing genetic damage.

DEA protocol for seizure of meth labs requires that agents wear special clothing and bring other specialized equipment. BATF not only made no such plans, but made express advance plans to use flashbang grenades--grenades which could set off a massive explosion in a real meth lab.[33] When requesting flashbangs for use in the raid, BATF omitted mention of any possible presence of a meth lab. Had BATF really thought there were a drug lab at Mount Carmel, BATF should have taken advantage of the DEA offer of assistance by a DEA (p.627)Clandestine Certified Laboratory Team. But the offer was rejected.[34]

When JTF-6 was not looking, BATF did not even bother to pretend that drugs were involved. Notably, the initial warrant application included nothing regarding drug law violations--even though the presence of a drug lab would have given BATF clear legal authority to search for the presence of any type of firearm (not just machine guns and explosives, which were the target of the search warrant), and even though the warrant affidavit threw in all sorts of other unsubstantiated allegations about Koresh.[35] After the February 28, 1993, BATF raid was repulsed, BATF sought and obtained a second warrant expanding the authorized scope of the search of Mount Carmel. Even the second warrant application did not include allegations of illegal drug activity.

Yet even after the botched raid, BATF still tried to use the drug claim to receive free military support. Richard L. Garner, Chief, BATF Special Operations Division, wrote to the Pentagon on February 28, 1993, asking for additional assistance related to "an on-going investigation in Waco, Texas involving apparent drug and firearms violations."[36] Although BATF maintained the pretense into late March, the Army was slowly recognizing the obvious. As of late March,[37] the Army had come to believe that its assistance to BATF and the FBI would be reimbursed[38] as is required when there is no drug nexus. By May 15, 1993, the military suspected the possibility that "drug-connection was overstated to secure cost-free SOF training and assistance. No mention of drugs in public media."[39](p.628)

The drug enforcement exception to the Posse Comitatus Act has been very effective at undermining the honesty of law enforcement personnel, who are encouraged to allege a drug nexus in many investigations for the purpose of getting, gratis, federal military assistance.[40] The U.S. Marshals Service claimed a possible drug problem involved with the Randy Weaver family at Ruby Ridge, Idaho in order to get military reconnaissance flights over the cabin, which revealed no evidence of drugs.[41]

According to an anonymous JTF-6 employee, JTF is often aware that civilian agencies are fabricating a pretext for military involvement, but, "the JTF doesn't even care, because there is little or no oversight involved. There's no independent authority looking over anyone's shoulder."[42]

What was the basis for the claim that David Koresh was running a drug lab? First, one person associated with the Branch Davidians had been convicted of using drugs, and was paroled to McLennan County (Waco), Texas.[43] Second, ten Branch Davidians had been arrested or investigated for some "drug activity" at some time in their lives, apparently with no convictions.[44]

In the mid-1980s, after the death of Branch Davidian prophet Lois Roden, there had been a schism in the Branch Davidians between the followers of George Roden (Lois Roden's son) and the followers of David Koresh (who thought him Lois Roden's proper successor). George Roden took over the Branch Davidian's "Mount Carmel Center" at Waco, and drove Koresh's followers away at gunpoint. Roden, currently confined in an institution for the criminally insane, did in fact (p.629)set up a meth lab. But in March 1988, when Roden was sent to jail on unrelated charges and Koresh's group took back the Mount Carmel Center, they found the meth lab, and promptly reported it to the sheriff.[45]

The fall 1993 Treasury Department report on the BATF raid on the Branch Davidians insisted that the investigation of alleged drug use was valid.[46] Treasury reasoned that the sheriff's office had planned to collect the lab equipment but found no record it had done so, "raising the possibility that the illegal equipment might still have been at the Compound."[47] The Treasury Report ignores the fact that Marc Breault (a disaffected ex-Davidian), the source for BATF's information that there had once been a meth lab at Mount Carmel, simultaneously told BATF agent Davy Aguilera that the building in which the meth lab was housed had burned down in Spring 1990.[48] Koresh was thoroughly anti-drug, and it is improbable that he would have started operating a methamphetamine lab after telling the sheriff about its presence.

The limit of the Treasury criticism was that there should be clearer standards about what constitutes a drug nexus, and that BATF probably should have told the Texas National Guard (which can only be used when there is a drug nexus) more than a day in advance that their pilots might be shot at.[49] Treasury noted, accurately, that BATF could have had just as much military assistance without any alleged drug nexus had it been willing to reimburse the Defense Department although the assistance could not have come from JTF-6, and the Texas National Guard could not have been used.

-- Liberty (, August 27, 1999.


I agree that the gov't really botched their handling of the Waco incident, and there should be some fannies thrown in the fat for what happened. But comparisons between Kristalnacht and Dachau are both ludicrous and obscene. Talk about a grotesque example of spin doctoring.

The nazis started on a roll with Kristalnacht. They didn't just burn one house down. They imprisoned and butchered millions.

If there was anything systemic about what happened at Waco, it's just a tad slow, as "final solutions" go, don't you think? Or are you going to now tell us that there have been thousands of "Wacos" since, and there's a big cover-up going on?

You're twisting around a tragedy, for your own political ends, and you've got the gaul to slam the thread initiator, for her choice in thread titles?

-- Bokonon (, August 27, 1999.


You haven't seen "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," have you? Rent it, it's at your video store. Then tell me we are not dealing with Nazis. Read the abusive, threatening responses, on this forum, of "For," who claims first-hand knowledge of the Waco incident from a law-enforcement point of view. On another post he wrote that dealing with "whackos" was "waste management."

The government is unrepentant about the mass-murder at Waco: it lies, and lies, and lies, and attacks those who object to being lied to as "delusional" or stoops to associating them with "hate groups." It's pervasive. Congresspeople are afraid to speak out. Afraid.

Waco is part of an overall militarization of domestic police forces in America. It's part and parcel of a planned, coordinated pattern of illegal property seizure, routine trampling of the fourth amendment in the name of the ineffectual "drug war," and shooting after shooting of innocent people in urban assault style "dynamic entry" - such as the old man who was recently shot in the back in L.A. - the day after he took 10k out of the bank, coincidentally. The policymaking people behind this piecemeal erosion of the Constitution and this money- and gun-grabbing are socialists - they believe government has a right to anything you own or produce, and that they know how to spend your money better than you do. If you stand in the way of their enlightened central planning, they will kill you. And in every country where they've done these very same things before -Germany, Russia, China- they've ended up killing people by the MILLIONS, once they had a firm grip on the reigns of power. Waco, and "For," with his willingness to view his fellow human beings as "waste" shows the kind of resources they have at their disposal. And you are an apologist for them; you must look into your heart and take personal responsibility for that.


-- Liberty (, August 27, 1999.

THIS is to [for your info] why dont you go blow smoke up the a** of what ever HATCHED YOU,this forum is for normal people,and you are a FLAKE...NO we are not idiots,ONLY a idiot would storm a building where you know they have machineguns,for what, what was the reason,do you even know what the hell you are screaming about.YOU dont know and i dont,so how can you say it is ok for our gov to murder women children and men,Did they do anything to you or to me?

-- G Bailey (, August 27, 1999.


No, I haven't seen that video. Who knows, it might even change my views about Waco. But it still won't make me believe that Waco can be compared to Kristalnacht or Dachau. The numbers are all wrong. Too few people involved. To many years between Ruby Ridge and Waco, and too many fringe religious groups still operating without the gov't shooting at them. To pull off a Kristalnacht, you need to move fast. Round them all up, before anybody has a chance to object, or come to their aid.

I think the problem boils down to too many people being worried about what "different" people are up to. Which particular group gets to be the target dejour, depends on where the masses are focusing their fears.

Back in the sixties, you had a similar event happen with left wing extremists. It's been so long ago now, that it's hardly ever talked about, and I forget what name was attached to the event, but a group who were part of "The Weathermen" were holed up in San Diego, and a swat team fired so many rounds into the house that it ignited (At least that was the official explanation given for the fire). And of course, there was the famous 1968 riots at the Chicago Democratic Convention. The police went ballistic and started beating up protesters, for no other apparent reason, than they didn't like the slogans they were chanting.

Then it was a conservative gov't worried about the destruction that they saw the radical left bringing to the country. Now it's a more liberal gov't worried about the radical right.

I guess why I'm so dubious about conspiracy theory, is because I've been there - done that. Back in my wilder younger days, I was one of the ones screaming about how the "Pigs" are out to turn America into a police state. "Power to the people" and all that. But there was no conspiracy, just a bunch of people afraid of the dark. Afraid of some unknown that the hippie counterculture might bring in. Basically, it was just a favorite game that people like to play called, "beat up the weirdo" and people still haven't lost their taste for it.

I think Waco was a terrible thing, but I think the reason that it happened was because someone made the heartless decision that it's okay for "weird" people to die.

-- Bokonon (, August 27, 1999.

GBAILEY says "this forum is for normal people". Fooled the hell out of me.

-- For (, August 28, 1999.

You are easy to fool,the answer was posted by a 10 year old that loves this forum.Would you like a lesson from me?if you do please send 599.00 for the first hour.

-- G Bailey (, August 28, 1999.

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