I work for a city government in a middle size midwestern city. It was decided by our local y2k czar, that certain work teams would take the official city y2k training and help educate the citizens on y2k. Having drawn the short straw, I was one of the fortunate to attend this training. The y2k training basically was a video of several officials in the city government stating that there is nothing to worry about, we are y2k ok.

Next I go back to my work team and lucky me, I draw the short straw again. It's decided that I write the "y2k ok" news release, based on the city training. I know what is expected, at least I thought I knew. Anyway I get together notes from the training, plus add the president's council bullshit, and Red Cross information. I respin it and voila' a news release about y2k guaranteed not to cause panic. In fact you could read this "news release" to your kiddies as a bed time story.

I submit the finished product to my work team, expecting it to be embraced by my fellow bureaucrats. After all it doesn't really say much, just prepare for a bitr by having 3 days worth of food... yada yada. I was surprised to get the document back with the paragraph taken from the Red Cross circled. My team mates felt that the information from the National Red Cross was "inflammatory", would I please "soften" the wording. I also needed to strike the part about "topping off" the gas tank as it's bad for the environment and I was asked not to mention anything about having some cash on hand, too controversial.

This is a true story about one city in America and it's preparation for y2k....are we sunk or what???

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), August 26, 1999

Answers

I posted my little town's Y2K pamphlet verbatim in the c.s.y2k forum a couple of months back. Your report makes my town's pamphlet read like a heroic, rebellious clarion call. Our community's official pamphlet included the subversive " red cross " paragraph!

IMHO, best you package your families storage foods and supplies in a camping trailer.

-- Nunja Biznec ( @ .org), August 26, 1999.

So, Mabel, what are You going to do about it? Will you continue to participate in an activity you obviously find reprehensible or .....?

-- Yan (no@no.no), August 26, 1999.

Mabel, best keep mucho documentation. Someone will be out to put your ash in a sling when the shtf. At least write a letter of your "concern for the innocent children in the event something goes terribly wrong". This way you become politically correct with concern for children while stating your objections to the article.

-- enough is (enough@enough.com), August 26, 1999.

Yes, Mabel Dodge, document in detail to CYA.
Thanks for posting this insight into the dumb down process.
And for New Year's we have a BIG surprise!

-- Ashton & Leska in Cascadia (allaha@earthlink.net), August 26, 1999.

...sniff, sniff. Forgive me "MABEL" but your little story has a fatal flaw. Press releases are the purview of the PR flack, not some barely literate Tinfoil flunky. Even a "middle size midwestern city" has a communications department - it seems highly unlikely the task would be given to you...

"It won't matter because there is a killer meteor called Bolide that will hit us June 30th thereabout. June 29th will be my last post. "

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), June 12, 1999.

-- Y2K Pro (y2kpro1@hotmail.com), August 26, 1999.

Hey Mabel,

Resign.

Oh yeah, Hillary's still a bitch and her husband's a rapist.

-- nothere nothere (notherethere@hotmail.com), August 26, 1999.

So, Mabel, what are You going to do about it? Will you continue to participate in an activity you obviously find reprehensible or .....? -- Yan (no@no.no), August 26, 1999. Oh Yan, I forgot the part where I sucker punched my supervisor for being so stupid. I then called Gary North and he's will be in with the Militia to overthrow our city government so that together we can warn the citizens...geeze.

I can state my true feelings but then all that's going to do is discredit me with my peers. I will then be in a position to absolutely be of no help to the citizens, they at least got a news release with y2k mentioned, hopefully they can read between the lines. Grow up Yan, it's not about morals it's about politics.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), August 26, 1999.

Unfortunitly Pro, your goverment is filled with barely literate flunkies, I'm just one of many.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), August 26, 1999.

denial two step...it's the latest craze

baah, baah, baah

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), August 26, 1999.

Mabel wrote:

In fact you could read this "news release" to your kiddies as a bed time story.

nice fairy tale huh? : )

Thanks Mabel!!! I've done work I hated to do too. I did a lot of financial advertising which I put in the "fear and greed" category. In fact, I just wrote about my take on bank runs and had to think a bit about some of my past work. Yuck! I couldn't wait to get away from work and take a shower. I even won awards for the stuff which I put into a bonfire upon my escape into self-employment.

"Pro",

How much do you know about communications?

Having worked in the industry for 15 years I can say with absolute confidence that I've seen a great many different kinds of people write a Press Release from HR personnel to a Admin Assistants to $150k per year professional PR consultants. Take your foot out of your mouth.

Mike

=============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

When I showed my sister the Y2K article that first made me concerned about personal ramifications, she was quite non-committal. Then the CBC did a show on Y2K ... "all these things could go wrong, but they're fixing them so they won't, all will be well, don't worry". The official "don't worry" line caused her more concern than Gary North's bulletin - LOL. So, just the fact that your city is issuing a statement at all will clue in those who have any political savvy. After all, when else do you believe a statement that says "this statement is about a non-event"? If it's such a non-event, then why is a statement being issued?

-- Tricia the Canuck (tricia_canuck@hotmail.com), August 26, 1999.

oh, btw "Pro", the professional consultants were on retainer. They had other clients too.

The funny thing is that sometimes the work that came from the "barely literate  flunky" was as good or even better.

Mike

===================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

Thanks Mike....my friends call me "mabes". :)

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), August 26, 1999.

Hey "mabes" thanks for sharing.

So... have you figured out what your new career path will be next year?

;-D

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), August 26, 1999.

BTW, Michael... this is Y2K Pros favorite P.R. firm... they always tell the truth! (Also one of Koskinen's P.R. firms)...

http://www.rendon.com/

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), August 26, 1999.

Mabes... be thankful youre dealing with the small town hall DWGI guys.

Take a look at The Rendon Groups site-map...

http://www.rendon.com/ sitemap.htm

...and click on... Global Public Relations: Public and Media Relations...

Public and Media Relations

Successful Public Relations Programs -- Information as an Element of Power.

Successful public relations programs coordinate strategies, accurately identify target audiences, define an effective message, and access appropriate media or non-media outlets to deliver a compelling message. TRG researches and designs public relations strategies that incorporate appropriate TRG services to meet each client's public relations needs and objectives.

Governments, businesses and other organizations often find that to achieve their goals, they need to complement their decisions, policies, and actions with comprehensive public relations programs. The success of these programs requires organizations both to respond to external events and to work aggressively to initiate events and contacts with both the media and the public, thereby guaranteeing control of the message.

TRG's full services, hands on approach to public relations includes development of a coordinated strategy to identify target audiences, develop effective and compelling messages and determine the appropriate message delivery system.

[snip]

Generally speaking, public relations is relations with audiences essential to the well being of an organization. In dealing with public opinion, public relations practitioners have three objectives:

1.Reinforce positive opinion.
2.Negate or change negative opinion.
3.Crystallize latent or unformed opinions.

[snip]

Go ahead... explore the site... its an adventure in the nature of spin management!

And remember... The Rendon Group most likely had input on managing the media and the recent Navy papers fiasco.

See the threads in the TBY2K Forum sub-category... Military/Pentagon Papers/Hot Topics (New)...

http:// www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-one-category.tcl?topic= TimeBomb%202000%20%28Y2000%29&category= Military%2fPentagon%20Papers%2fHot%20Topics%20%28New%29

May you continue to live in... interesting times.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), August 26, 1999.

Great post Diane : )

remember the movie "Sneakers"? I loved that movie...dagnabbit River.

Anway...when I think about this stuff I think, "too many secrets".

We already have the greatest decoder available right between our ears...behind our eyes. Wat you see (or what you read) isn't always the truth. Your eyes can deceive you especially when someone is working hard to control perception.

Mike

==================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

Pro,

It's been my experience that ABSOLUTES only exist in carefully controlled labrotory simulations and in religious texts. In the real universe, things tend to snap crackle and pop in all sorts of unexpected ways.

I can vouch for Mabe's story, because I know her. No, I don't mean she's a cyber-buddy, I mean I live with her. We're married. The really funny thing is that she kinda "sanitized" the story, because there's some details that would have just about everybody on the board howling that it was a work of fiction. Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction, especially where your gov't bureacracy is concerned.

Here's another detail to stretch your credulity - Our city's OFFICIAL Y2K website is run by a lowly police lieutenant. Why? Because he created an "Award Winning" web site, for the police department. The city decided that knowledge of snazzy html code and Java script, was more important that knowledge anything about what makes a computer work and what can make them fail.

As far as Mabel's "literacy is concerned - she's just a little more lazy about spell checking, than I am, on this forum. When it comes to work, trust me, she's not that lax.

Yan: It's real easy to be a hero, when your sitting behind a keyboard, but the real world requires a little more flexibility. Had Mabel made the noble gesture of demanding something more "radical", like say FEMA's recommendation of a week's worth of preps, all that would have happened was that she would have been completely ignored and the City brochure would have advised no preps, at all. Gee, now wouldn't that have been a big victory for, the "Common Man"?

There's a lot of people around here, who really need to take the time to find out how their gov't really works, Pollies and Doomers alike, before they either attack or defend it. The gov't really does suck - it just sucks in a completely different way than most people think it does. Most people think "1984", when it's really closer to "Brazil" or "Dr. Strangelove".

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 26, 1999.

Whooooaaaaa! So much for my "proof reading' abilities......oh well...you get the gist of it....

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 26, 1999.

Bokornon, I've been having a bad proofing day too. It's the weather. It's always the weather actually, or some other something : ) Oh, and there are NO calories in a birthday cake either.

Mabes and Bokornon are married : )

The day my wife and I post on this board together I'll be checking the back of her neck because the POD people do indeed exist, lol. She's a GI but she doesn't want to be.

Mike

===============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

wow, see that? Bokornon?

not once but twice? I'm going back to sleep.

ekiM

====================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

No need for TERM LIMIT legislation, y2k will take care of this problem !!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 26, 1999.

Mike:

POD People...LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW: It's a Full Moon (I suppose that could answer a few of the "huh's" but then again, this entire year has seemed like a full moon!

hrumph......

Mabel: Yes, we are sunk.

-- mar (derigueur2@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

Mabel, thanks for posting that. I admire your truthfulness in doing so. There are those here who would be interested in hearing the details of the unsanitized version as well. Please ignore the mindless rants.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

Thanks, Mabel! Another county heard from, as my father used to say...

Don't take Y2K Pro seriously, it's just involuntary reflexes at work.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), August 26, 1999.

mar -

More specifically, it is the Sturgeon Moon. Next month is the Harvest Moon, followed by Hunter's Moon, November is Beaver Moon, and finally: Cold Moon.

Winter is coming, friends. Be ready yourself, and ready to help others.

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), August 26, 1999.

Mike, You said: "I couldn't wait to get away from work and take a shower." Doesn't that sum up feelings towards most jobs these days?

Mabel, I agree with Mumsie. Thanks for posting, ignore the flames, and please say more. It will help us to examine the statements we're receiving from our own politicians/bureaucrats.

-- Rachel Gibson (rgibson@hotmail.com), August 26, 1999.

Funny you all would describe the working of our gov't as "Brazil", as that it precisely the movie that many of my colleagues have mentioned when we discuss Y2K news items and possible, ummmm, social unpleasantness. "This is your receipt for your husband... and this is my receipt for your receipt."

All together now:

Brazil...

Where hearts were entertaining June

We stood beneath an amber moon

And softly murmured someday soon...

We kissed...

And clung together

Then...

Tomorrow was another day

The morning found me miles away

With still a million things to say

Now...

When twilight dims the skies above

Recalling thrills of our love

There's one thing I'm certain of

Return...

I will...

to old...

BRAZIL...

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), August 26, 1999.

Micheal: That's funny, because with Mabes and I, the situation was the reverse. I was the reluctant G.I.. I used to one of those "They'll fix it, because they have too much to lose" types, until I thought it through (Wishin' don't make it so, and then there's the little problem of failed remediation attempts). I used to annoy the crap out of Mabes, reading over her shoulder and trying to debunk every point that was made. I'm probably still a little more positive in my outlook, than Mabes, but maybe that's just because I'm a Johnny-Come-Lately.
I'm curious. What made your wife G.I.? For me it was, of all things, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's Y2K video. I expected that to be spin beyond even what I believed to be true, and that video wasn't all THAT rosy. (I have this quasi-mathematical formula I use, whenever watching gov't PSA's. Take their sum total and subtract ten pounds of B.S.. The remainder resembles the truth)

Mumsie and Racheal: Mabes works late tonight, but I'll pass your requests on to her. I'd love to be the one to tell the story, because it's such a howl, but it's hers to tell.

Mac: There's parallels with "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" as well. Especially the "wind velocity of a sparrow" bit. Lots of things have been woefully delayed, or allowed to die in committee all together, because of literally years of debate, over inane trivialities.

Enough is, Ashton &Leska: Don't worry, the gov't doesn't give credit to "low-level, barely literate flunkies". Mabes' words ended up being passed off as the words of Pro's famous PR Department....but then I'm giving away some of the story...

And lastly (but not leastly), Diane: Thank you for posting that. There's nothing that is more simultaneously funny and scary, than a P.R. Agency.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 26, 1999.

I know why they didn't like your story, they all knew that you love HIL*LIAR*Y CLINTON! Can't tell the truth so why not lie!

-- ~~~~~ (~~~~@~~~.com), August 26, 1999.

Mabel Dodge and Bokonon a happily married, pair of articulate GI's! Gosh ... I've especially like both of your postings; they're the ones I always make a point to read carefully because they are as smartly written as they are intelligent and thoughtful. Well, I'm just jealous, I must say. I imagine that it is a whole lot more comforting to be facing this great, unknowable event with a partner who is reading from the same page, and trying to grasp its many and complex aspects, just as hard as you are. Oh, well, it's somehow reassuring to know that there will be people like you two out there, putting your heads and hearts together, figuring out how to make it to the other side. I'm sure you know how lucky you are, after all you've read here on this forum. But I'm going to take heart from Mabel's example and stick with my gut on this, because God gave me these 2 great kids to watch over and see into some productive role in the world. Maybe somewhere along the way, my husband will see through the fog, as Bokonon eventually did.

Thanks for BOTH of these stories, you two... and I also look forward to the whole story, Mabel Dodge. This time last year, before the National Press Club, Tom Clancy said that it's harder to write fiction than fact, because in fiction you have to make all the pieces of the story link together in more plausible and believable ways than they actually do in real life. Then to demonstrate this point, he answered the next question -"What do you think about Y2K?" -- with a dismissive wave of his hand, and said that nothing was going to happen because there are so many people on top of it who will have it handled in time. As much as he writes in the world of hi-tech and complex system inter-connects, and to plot out terrorist scenarios from all different directions, by the summer of '98 he had already written off any potential threats to the country from Y2K. If I hadn't heard him say it with my own ears, I'd NEVER have believed that would be his answer.

-- Kristi (KsaintA@aol.com), August 26, 1999.

Y2KPro wrote: "..sniff, sniff. Forgive me "MABEL" but your little story has a fatal flaw. Press releases are the purview of the PR flack, not some barely literate Tinfoil flunky. Even a "middle size midwestern city" has a communications department - it seems highly unlikely the task would be given to you..."

Think he might have missed this post on an earlier thread???

The following ad appeared in last Sunday's edition of the Honolulu Advertiser: TO APPLY: Send resume with ID# and salary history, names & phone numbers of 3 work rel. references & copy(ies) of diploma(s) &/or certificate(s) to qualify for position to the Dir. of Human Resources, RCUH, 2530 Dole Street, Sakamaki Hall D-100, Honolulu, HI 96822. EEO/AA Employer.
Y2K READINESS TRAINER - ID# 99232
Hawaii SBDC Network (HBDC). Part-Time (20% FTE). Duties: The Y2K Readiness Trainer is responsible for the design, marketing, delivery, and reporting of the SBDC Y2K readiness training program consisting of 16 half-day training events on Y2K assessment, computer systems, embedded systems, and contingency planning throughout the State of Hawaii. Requires: Bachelor's Degree. and one (1) year experience in training. Computer knowledge, especially Y2K problems involving hardware, software, embedded systems, and social implications. Knowledge of small business comptuer issues. Knowledge of effective marketing techniques for training events designed to reach the small business community. Ability to develop curriculum on Y2K issues. Ability to work to a predetermined timed line. Excellent training skills and written communication skills for report writing. Valid Driver's License. Inquiries: Kathy Hammes (808)974-7330, Closing 8/26/99. Min. Sal $533.40/mo. @20% FTE.

Just though some might see both the humor and pathos of this ad.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), August 25, 1999 The State of Hawaii is advertising for a $15.00/hr part-time employee with a bachelor's degree to be responsible for the development, marketing, and delivery of Y2K training for small businesses throughout the entire state (nevermind that they're just now going to begin talking about assessment!), and Y2KPro has trouble believing Mabel's story? LOL!

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), August 27, 1999.

Mabel: Perhaps your approach to the whole enchilada is wrong. I suggest that you set up a major Y2K meeting and bring in Gary North, Ed Yourdon, Paula Gordon, Jim Lord, Big Dog, Diane Squire, Tao & Shakespeare, Cassandra Project, OH GOD THE LIST GOES ON FOR EVER, and have your city government listen to these people on a 3-day Y2K marathon of Y2K information. I bet their butts would pucker beyond belief!

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), August 27, 1999.

To begin with the Official Y2K training wasn't really any kind of "how to" training. The purpose stated openly was to get us all on the "same page" regardless of our personal feelings on the subject. The first thing we were asked to do in the training was to state our own opinions about y2k. We all listened as 40+ people took turns doing so, (my eyes were crossed by the time we got through it.). Then the trainer basically said, "that's nice" and told us that we are now the voice of the city's opinion and we will take the official message into the community.

The "Training" continued with two half hour video's covering the party line on preps, utilities ect. Then our own local czar took over while his handmaiden, a communications expert who couldn't enunciate a word properly if her life depended on it, nodded reassuring. We were told over and over, that nothing will happen on the rollover date and that was the primary message to give to the citizens. All of us on the selected teams were expected by the higher officials to actively take the message to the community. It could be done in a number of ways such as church, school or senior center visits, but we have no choice in participation, that also was clearly stated.

My friend sitting next to me realized that an easy way to satisfy this commandment was to get someone to write one article and use it over and over. One person writes the article and then the rest of us take turns using it for various publications in the different neighborhoods. She told me that following the training, she was going to speak to someone higher up about the need for an "official article that strongly presented the city's noble view on Y2K."

A couple of weeks down the pike, it's time to get with my "team" and crank out a plan that will make the heads happy. I strongly dislike two of the women on my work team and avoid them as much as possible. Both are elitist a$$holes, that resent working in our assigned neighborhood which is viewed as red neck. I have worked closely with this neighborhood for some time and I feel a little protective. Since I want to avoid all contact and they do to, I "volunteer" to write an article for the local neighborhood newspaper, the "team" can have input via e-mail. A win win situation.

Our team contacts our coach (rah rah), and fills her in on the plan. The coach is delighted, it seems that there is demand for an "official article that strongly presents the city's noble view on Y2K". She tells us that if we get this article done and it's approved it would reflect favorably on our team and be the official city press release. Of course you know the punch line, the only demand was my friend who wanted to avoid some work.

There is also a moral to this story...none of my fellow bureaucrats were really interested one way or another in y2k and how it affects or doesn't affect the citizens. They simply wanted the article to be as politically correct as possible, so that it would reflect well on their heads and further their careers. No conspiracy...no concern...just a$$ kissing.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), August 27, 1999.

Mabel, did you get the feeling you were being programmed or 'de- briefed' on how you were to state your opinion as to what might happen? It sounds to me that after everyone gave their 'take' on what might happen you were all summarily dismissed and told, "*This* is what you will believe now". If your job takes you into certain communities, and you are perceived to be 'official', I would imagine it might be rather hard to be 'on the record' saying one thing, while believing something different.

The older I get, the harder it is for me to keep my opinions to myself! : ) Don't know if I could effectively do what you're doing and still manage to have a job.

I've been in a somewhat similar situation (not regarding this matter, however), and it was quite stressful to be told to spout the party line when I had definite ideas and evidence to the contrary.

I'm curious...when everyone was talking about their personal viewpoint, what was the general consensus? Did any/many of them see a 6 or 7 (or higher)? Do you believe these people were truthful, or do you think some of them 'hedged' their answers so as to not appear 'too different'?

My hat is off to you. I'd be interested in following the progress of this project.

-- Wilferd (WilferdW@aol.com), August 27, 1999.

Rachel,

Regarding employment and showers...that's why I'm self-employed. Now, sometimes I'm so busy and loving what I do that I forget to take a shower :-/ jk

Bok, my wife became a GI with patience : )

I had tried to talk to her but she doesn't want to really talk about it. So, I started e-mailing her information, articles, etc. Some, she never read. But, I planted a seed.

What really made her a GI was when her employer upgraded and bought all new computer systems for their CPA firm. My wife is a CPA. She got a brand new, state of the art DELL Laptop. This was so the firm would be completely Y2k ready, positioned perfectly to capitalize on new business after the rollover. They're very progressive : )

Oh, that and she specializes in audits and one of the duties she has is to inquire about the Y2k readiness of clients. I don't get the skinny on that because it's confidential and my wife's ethics are beyond reproach.

Like I said, she's a GI but she doesn't want to be.

Mike

P.S. Mar, I love the Puppet Masters and all it's incarnations : )

==========================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 27, 1999.

Mabel--"None of my fellow bureaucrats were really interested one way or another in Y2K and how it affects or doesn't affect the citizens." For someone like you who loves Hil*liar*y and Bill, I find you just as repulsive and with very little credibility.

-- See right through you (seerightthroughyou@seerightthroughyouu.com), August 27, 1999.

See right thru you<

Mabes and I both have been called a lot worse, by people a hell of a lot more skilled at slinging insults, than you. The world is full of people who are too much of a little sissy-boy or girl to handle it, when someone doesn't agree with their views.

It's kinda hard to have very much respect for someone who's too much of a chicken-shit to flame under their regular handle.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 27, 1999.

Kristi,

I won't say anything fatuous, like "I know just how you're feeling". I guess it would be up to Mabes, to say that. But I do know that I wouldn't want to be in the position that you are in, or that Mabes used to be in. How does one cope with loving someone, who is endangering both you, and your family? I know I'd feel like the worst kind of coward for leaving someone during a crisis, so my conscience wouldn't let me do anything but stay and suffer with them.

I don't know what kinda guy your husband is, so all I can tell you, is what helped me get to being G.I..

First of all, most men like feeling in control (I'm sure there is not a woman out there, who is surprised by THAT statement). Different men feel in control in different ways. For me, I like the feeling of being able to build stuff. Anything from a model kit to a house, I feel most like a "Manly man" whenever I'm constructing something. Mabes knows this, and long before I became G.I., she was downloading plans for things like solar furnaces, homebrew generators, and distilleries. I couldn't resist. I thought Y2K was bunk, but I still was eager to get to building the things she provided the plans for. I call this "the softening up phase". As she did this, I started paying more and more attention to the forums and websites she was looking at, and began to at least skim the the printouts of what could go wrong, and why you should prepare.

Secondly, start with gentler scenarios. Nothing tightens a persons denial like saying, "It's the end of the world, and millions will die". Not the way to get thru to a D.G.I.. Start emphasizing the bad things that could happen, during a BITR. I've never experienced a three day power outage during subzero weather, but I did get to experience a 3 day outage during a heatwave, this summer. THAT was hell enough. Start by talking about scenarios that can easily be prepared for. He can always, as I was, be eased into envisioning worse scenarios, after the denial has started to crack.

I hope this helps. My and Mabes' thoughts and prayers are with you. And thank you, for your kind words.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my.Deja.com), August 27, 1999.

Bokonon-Since you can't seem to handle it because I disagree with you and Mabel, then that makes you a sissy-boy and girl. You see, I can use the same argument and insults against you. I simply used Mabels own quote and your mad because I called a spade a spade. Everyone is anonymous on the forum, I don't know you and you don't know me, so I guess you can call everyone here chicken sh*t.

-- see right through you (seerightthroughyou@seerightthroughyou.com), August 27, 1999.

See,

I have no problem with your disagreement. You can disagree with me from now till the sun burns out. If you choose to disagree with me, in a respectful fashion, then I'll disagree with you, in a respectful fashion. But if you want to set the tone for a discussion by throwing around words like "repulsive", then come on with your bad self, little boy (or girl or halfway in between, or whatever you are), I'm not too proud to roll around in the gutter.

AS to the incognito, I've been looking around, and I can't seem to find any other thread where someone named "See Right Thru You" has posted. I think you're just one of the usual goons who like to bash anyone who doesn't see the world in his or her same myopic way. I'm sure it comes as no surprise to anyone, that "Bokonon" is not my real name, but I always post with the same handle. If I contradict myself, or say something stupid, it's right there, for all to see. Even if there's a reasonable explanation for why I erred, there are those who will always happily rub my face in it. That's why I say you're a chicken shit.

This thread was one of those rare threads, where people were actually getting along. There are people on this thread that I haven't always seen eye to eye with, and we were all having a nice discussion. Then you came along and wrecked the mood, and since you don't have the hangy-downy things to let us know who you are, we don't even know who to thank.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 27, 1999.

For someone like you who loves Hil*liar*y and Bill, I find you just as repulsive and with very little credibility.

-- See right through you (seerightthroughyou@seerightthroughyouu.com), August 27, 1999.

Hey what do you expect? I'm a bureaucrat, credibility isn't in my job description. You find me repulsive, well good this may be a win win situation...Just don't read what I post. I always unlike you, use the same handle. Doesnt that make it real easy for you to avoid my repulsive ideas and politics? In return I have one less idiot to deal with. Sounds like a winning deal for both of us.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), August 27, 1999.