Hmmmm...now let's see...we've gone from calling janitors "internal maintenance technicians", keypunch operators "data input specialists", retail cashiers "on-site cash-flow monitors" and now lame scores "markers"...

Hey, no doubt about it, euphemisms are alive and well here in MARPland!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

JoustGod

-- JoustGod (pinballwiz1@msn.com), August 25, 1999

Answers

Hehe.. my favorite euphenism is for a garbage man, or should I say a 'sanitary officer'.

I just uploaded a heap of 'markers' - all those broken recordings and shared points games like Dominos. I used to be against such shenanagins, but hey if everyone else is doing it, why shouldn't I :)

-- JSW (usagi@dingboblue.net.au), August 25, 1999.

I agree with you JoustGod. Great to see someone has really managed to score allmost 7000 points on Burgertime etc. I'm beginning to believe that 10-3-1 scoring system was best after all. It courages more to make few good scores instead of masses "lame"(whatever that means) scores, that no one playbacks.

It really is fun to see someone play a game in a way you never seen before, like Chapmans MsPacman tactics. Playing it back made me think: Wow, thats how it's done, maybe I can do that too...For me that's the idea of this site. Quality over Quantity.

Tommi

-- JohnMcEnroe (tiihoto@hotmail.com), August 25, 1999.

WTF is wrong with 7000 points on burger time. Thats higher than any score I've got on that game.

-- Dave Kaupp (info@kaupp.cx), August 25, 1999.

Ok, bad example, sorry

-- Tommi (tiihoto@hotmail.com), August 25, 1999.

No need to apologize, to you 7000 points is quite small, to others it could be there high score.

To me, all my lames scores are on zaxxon. I don't consider the rest of my scores lame. Other people may consider other scores lame and that is there opinion.

I don't consider any one elses scores lame, each person will have to judge which scores they submit are lame or not. If I were elitist, I would tell other people that there scores where lame.

Now, if this is a site to show off huge scores in games, there should be no point system at all.

-- Dave Kaupp (info@kaupp.cx), August 25, 1999.

Dave, I think you're taking it too personal. Once again my point is being completely missed here. The only thing I'm saying is don't get upset if one of your (and by saying "your" I'm not refering exclusively to you or anyone in particular) scores gets the "lame" tag attached to it. Furthermore, I've looked at the scores you have submitted Dave and found them to be quite respectable...well, except for that fine Burgertime example! ;) BTW, surely you are joking in your reference to your Zaxxon scores as they kick ass and you know it!

Please don't label anyone here as "elitist". There is absolutely no one here that could hold up that kind of title. Yes, some of us MARP veterans have our opinions, but on the other hand, these opinions are formulated through the "been there, seen it, heard it all before" experience of being around MARP for the past couple of years. Trust me, most of us can see a lame score when it hits the MARP shores. We used to get them from time to time but this is the first instance in which lame scores were being used to pile up points to reach the leaderboard top 10. Hey, submit all of 'em that you want. Nobody's ever going to stop you from doing it. But just remember, those kind of scores are not very durable and will only serve to disappoint the player in the long run as MARP becomes more and more populated with great players.

So quit getting so defensive and critical of someone who is calling it like it is. My gosh, 400,500 or more scores in less than 6 months?!? I'll tell you right now that there is no one (well, maybe BBH :p) that can possibly put up great scores on that many games in that short period of time. So the downside to this "Great Upload Rush Of 1999" is that some of the scores are going to merely look like nothing more than "test runs" or "just checking it out runs". That's just the way it is. And yes, I still find it somewhat humorous that the "markers" euphemism is used in these cases. Suggestion...if you're offended by someone siting what you've done (as in the "test run" case above)as lame, then hold back on that game until you at least get a handle on it so that it looks like you've actually tried to play the game. The leaderboard has no time limit. If you're good enough, you will definitely join the upper regions of the board in due time.

JoustGod

-- JoustGod (pinballwiz1@msn.com), August 25, 1999.

I have some trouble with Burgertime myself actually. It's got the most obvious monster behavior of any of the maze games, but the controls are very picky and I find myself dying (or otherwise screwing up - missing the prize, losing control of the monsters) because Mr. Chef decided that he didn't know how to go up a ladder from here - damn thing's worse than Donkey Kong. The Colecovision version is forgiving and a more pleasant experience.

Aqua

-- Aquatarkus (aquatarkus@digicron.com), August 26, 1999.

Hey, I like Burgertime, and actually the Intellivision version is better than the coleco. What that aside, the most predictible maze game, is by far, Amidar.

-- Chris Parsley (cparsley1@hotmail.com), August 26, 1999.

I like the Burgertime concept, just not the control. Haven't played the INTV version. Amidar's monster predictibility is INTENTIONAL, unlike the other maze games. Amidar even goes so far as to explain how the monsters move in the demo.

Aqua

-- Aquatarkus (aquatarkus@digicron.com), August 26, 1999.

Sorry, I didn't intend to label anyone elitist, pherhaps I get a bit upset when some calls someone else's work lame. I wasn't taking it personally.

Maybe some of the scores submitted by various players are test runs or what not, but apparently the scores are good enough for them. The person doing the submitting should know if there scores are lame or not. And as you stated, it there getting just enough points to get ito the leader board, in due time those scores will not be worth many points.

The reason I condsider my zaxxon scores lame is because I did not try to beat (or come close to)my personnel best, I just got enough to get 1st place (and 100 points :).

I guess what really bugged me about the "lame score" debate, is when is a score not lame? Top 3 score, 50% or higher of the current 1st place score, more than 30 points?

-- Dave Kaupp (info@kaupp.cx), August 26, 1999.

1st of all, let me say the best Burgertime version ever is the Intellivision one (used to play for long nights :-), and I believe, but correct me if wrong, it was the original version (did it appear in the arcades after the INTV release...!?!?)

Answering to the last msg from Aqua, also the Burgertime monsters movements are intentionally predictables: they always follow you coming up if you're upper, left if you're left, and so on.....but each of them has a different behaviour when they're at your level (floor?).....but that's known....

-- Cicca (cicca@writeme.com), August 27, 1999.

Changing back to 10-3-1 scoring would keep some people from participating in MARP, even when the score is really lame it gives points and that's the fun in MARP besides the game itself. :)

Anyway, there is a BURGER TIME 92 for the C64, it's a pretty good conversion, saving top 40 (or similar) to disc etc.

Its' on go.to/c64

-- adam/rough (rough@c64.rulez.org), August 27, 1999.

Thanx for the hint about the game....gonna go there soon....

About the scoring system, I think a lower limit should be put..... let's say a score will be refused if it worth less then 10 points...such a rule won't discourage submissions of any score, but only the *very* lame one.

-- Cicca (cicca@writeme.com), August 27, 1999.

Right on, Cicca!!! The INTV version rules, being 1, 3, 2, 4, few not in arcade Repeats every 7 levels... Cicca, we got to find a internettable INTV Burgertime, I want to play again!

-- Chris Parsley (cparsley1@hotmail.com), August 27, 1999.

I had Mattel intlv "the Rolls Royce of videogames" too. I think Burgertime and Lock'n'chase were originally Mattel's(and best versions). One great game was Nightstalker, after fifty thousand robots could shoot your bunker and after eighty robots were invisible!!!... There was also game called Advanced dungeons and dragons(are rpg ADD-something named after this?)-which I think was predecessor of this days dooms etc, only 2D.. And a bit Gauntlet like game called Swords and serpents.

Tommi-Locknchase 100 000, Nightstalker 120 000,Mattel, about 12 years old then

-- Tommi Tiihonen (tiihoto@hotmail.com), August 27, 1999.

What I meant by intentional wasn't whether or not the programmer was lazy, but whether you (the player) were meant to figure it out so easily. Burgertime looks to me like it was intended to be harder mentally than it actually is. Of course it still hadn't gotten through game designers heads what happened when enemies could move though each other - you can still do basic grouping in Double Dragon type games :) It's not a Mattel designed game - I think that's explained on the Blue Sky Rangers site, but I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if they helped the INTV version.

BTW, has the Burgertime bit passed the number of responses on the topic yet?

Aqua

-- Aquatarkus (aquatarkus@digicron.com), August 27, 1999.