OT- Or Is It? = Hidden cash illegal? Sheriff's Department seized more than $18,400

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Lyon County Sheriff's Department seizes more than $18,400 on I-35

Topeka-Capital Journal

EMPORIA -- The Lyon County Sheriff's Department seized more than $18,400 after a routine traffic stop early Friday of a sedan along Interstate 35 led to the discovery of a hidden compartment that contained the cash.

No arrests were made.

An officer stopped a four-door Ford Tempo that was traveling south on I-35 at 2:49 a.m., a sheriff's department dispatcher said. The traffic violation that prompted the stop wasn't named.

The officer then requested a Coffey County Sheriff's Department canine unit to assist with the traffic stop. The dog sniffed out a hidden compartment underneath the trunk on the right rear side of the car, the dispatcher said. The compartment had a fresh undercoating.

Once opened, the officers discovered $18,438.11, the dispatcher said.

The two men in the car were from El Paso, Texas, and St. Louis. They weren't arrested, and their names weren't released.

The officer who made the stop filed an affidavit for the forfeiture of the money and in connection with criminal charges of a hidden compartment. An affidavit is an official document forwarded to the county attorney, who determines if criminal charges will be filed and an arrest warrant issued, said Rick Buck, assistant Lyon County attorney.

"I haven't seen any documents in this case, so I'm not sure what's going to happen," Buck said Friday. "We have to sort out what kinds of things we'll be pursuing, if anything."

Buck said he would have to see the officer's report to know if criminal charges were involved, but he wasn't aware of a hidden compartment being illegal.

"My officer seems to think it is," he said. "It might be a new statute. I'm not sure if it is (a crime). That's something I'm looking into."

As for the money, the forfeiture is a civil proceeding. If officers seize the money in connection with a suspected crime -- even if they don't get a conviction -- they can keep the cash, Buck said. If the men want to reclaim their money, it would be through a civil court proceeding, he said.

Lyon County Sheriff Clifford Hacker didn't know the specifics of this case because a report hadn't yet been filed. But, he said, if Lyon County were to keep the money, it would be divided between the sheriff's department and the county attorney's office.

Copyright 1999 The Topeka Capital-Journal

-- flb (fben4077@yahoo.com), August 23, 1999


flb, This type of stuff has been going on for a long time as a result of the War On Drugs (aka The War on Americas Citizens). For more info (and other horror stories) check out www.fear.org.

So much for the Fourth Amendment..... -TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), August 23, 1999.

Don't lie to yourself, the socialist's/marxists ARE in controll. Don't flame me either, the 4th Ammendment has been ruled out due to lack of interest. When we get or have a so called supreme court that is innudated with their lackeys, game over.

Take your money and property first, ask questions and charge you with a crime later?!?!?!?!?!? Yeah, you can file a court claim to get your stuff back......but wait, they got all your stuff, how the hell you gonna pay. So sorry, pappa needs a new cruiser.sick

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), August 23, 1999.

This is the real reason the war on drugs continues. Everyone knows it's a crock, but as long as the folks in charge are making money, it will go on forever.

Or at least, for another 130 days.

-- don't let (them@find.it), August 23, 1999.

I'd rather be robbed by "honest" criminals. At least they have the balls to put a gun in your face and steal your money like a man, not hide behind a badge.

-- (notafree@people.now), August 23, 1999.

This is typical proceedure for large cash seizure. If the men can prove that they got the money though legit means, its theirs, just a few questions ask. I-35 is the main drug line to the east coast and midwest from Mexico and points south. They have to find my cash first before they can take it. A burglar once told me NEVER have ALL your CASH or VALUABLES in ONE PLACE. Spread it out and hide it in different places.

-- y2k dave (xsdaa111@hotmail.com), August 23, 1999.

Not that this in any way justifies the stealing of money from citizens, but two things that ought to be considered:

1) I don't think that dogs can sniff out "hidden compartments" any more than they can sniff out "cash". I would SUSPECT that the cash had traces of drugs on it.

2) Did the suspects actually say, "Hey thats MY money!" or was it more like, "Gee, I don't know anything about it, it sure isn't mine"?

Don't get me wrong, the so-called war on drugs, besides being a war that has been lost, has been used to take away all kinds of rights, not to mention assets of citizens. And last I heard, if you cannot be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, you are considered innocent.

And, lest we forget, one of my all-time favoite Y2K quotable quotes: "What governments cannot find, they cannot steal."

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 23, 1999.

K o S,

Point one: ALL currency, even the stuff kids hand over to buy candy has traces of Cocaine from the Money Sorting Machines at the various Federal Reserve Banks.

Point two: Eighteen Grand pays the appearance fees for a lot of MUDWRESTLING.

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), August 23, 1999.

This is just the proactive extention of the "Your money really IS safer in the bank!" campaign.

-- Ron Schwarz (rs@clubvb.com.delete.this), August 23, 1999.

Another reason to leave your cash where it belongs.........IN THE BANK!


-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 23, 1999.

My father in law is an attorney. He has taken several cases where a client's cash has been siezed without the client being charged with a crime. In order to even gain the right to sue for the return of your own momey, you have to post a bond of something like double the value of the siezed assets. Combine this with the cost of the attorney, and in most cases the victim of the siezure cannot afford to sue. In the case of the $18,000, the cost of recovery would be around $45,000. It is no surprise most victims will never get their money back.

I did some research on drug-sniffing dogs over the Internet last year. What is the main ingredient of the paper used in currency? Surprise! It is hemp (one reason hemp cultivation is illegal) Dogs can most definitely smell currency.

This is of course robbery under color of law.

For an eye-opening intellectual excercise, go read the Declaration of Independence where it outlines the reasons for revolting against England. Check off every injustice you find cited there that is also perpetrated against us by our own government today. About the only ones you won't see around you today are arming Indian tribes and quartering soldiers in private homes- and Y2k may cause the latter!

As long as the average American has 500 channels of cable and a fat 401k they will not care that they are slowly being enslaved.

The Second Amendment is the keystone.

-- Forrest Covington (theforrest@mindspring.com), August 23, 1999.

We had been camped at a lake in Wyoming for a week, fishing. The game and fish arrested and confiscated a Colorado RV, boat and all posessions, when canning equipment had been discovered inside. In addition, they were fined and jailed, but still never had access to as many blow jobs as our President, I'm sure. Great bargains at those auctions, folks!

I refuse to comment further until seeking legal council for the allowed response, as a result of recent warning to preparers from the Clinton administration.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 23, 1999.

I wonder what amount makes it hidden cash. Is three thousand too much, or five thousand? Who is to say how much a person might want to spend on a long weekend? But seriously.

As to the scoialists and Marxists being responsible for all this, come on. First of all, there are no socialists and Marxists left in this country! And certainly none with any power whatsoever. Who is in charge? People without any particular philosophy. The drive is for rampant power accretion. There is no more political idealism in government either on the so-called left or the right--don't fool yourself. It just ain't the same old ball game anymore. It's about Wall Street, and if you say that Wall Street is socialist--LOL.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), August 23, 1999.

Actually Mara, MANY of us have been stating that your president is.

Search the archives for more links than you could review before 2000.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 23, 1999.


This thread must put a smile on Doomers Suck's face. After all, he'd put all of you in prison for having a few extra days' worth of food. You would be terrorists for that great crime. Just look at Suck's postings at the Pollys 2, Doomers 0 thread.

Mara, even if there are no socialists here (year right), there still are Nazis. Doomers Suck is proof of that.

-- General Patton (GeneralPatton@warishell.com), August 23, 1999.

>> Another reason to leave your cash where it belongs.........IN THE BANK! <<

Money belongs wherever its owner wants to put it. The bank doesn't own my money, I do. It only belongs in the bank as long as I want it there. Not one second longer. I have some in the bank and some in other places. Keep yours wherever you like.

-- Brian McLaughlin (brianm@ims.com), August 23, 1999.

Yes, it's about Socialism. Maria W., you are not thinking very hard about this. Socialism is the ownership of all persons and property by the state. It is the antithesis of a free society, and it concentrates power into the hands of a small, central-planning elite. The U.S. Constitution, mandating a UNION of states, as opposed to the monolithic centralized power of a STATE, qua state, is what they've been trying to destroy. The 4th amendment is gone. In the wake of these statistically insignificant but hysterically hyped school shootings, I've seen reps from the NAACP and other liberals QUESTION WHETHER THE FIRST AND SECOND AMENDMENTS OUGHT TO BE CHANGED, on the pretext of "protecting the children." Several editorials have been written demanding that the 2nd Amendment be repealed, "outmoded relic of a bygone age" that it is. Look into Clinton and Tony Blair's "Third Way" - it's STATE SOCIALISM. Go to the freerepublic.com website and research Clinton's Marxist connections.

"Wall Street" is irrelevant. The key player is multinational finance and it's power over multinational corporations. The National Socialist Workers Party of Germany, the Nazis, were socialists. That socialism looks a lot like our what our "New World Order" is becoming, only on a global scale. "No socialists left anymore?" What about China? They bought the influence of our Chief Executive and his Democratic Party, funding Clinton (via the Riady family of Chinese agents) since before he was even an Arkansas Attorney General. If that weren't enough, they have stolen 20 years and billions of dollars worth of our most sophisticated weaponry, and our "free press" castigates those who would object, refering to them as "McCarthy-ites," and "red-baiters."

Somebody please make a link to freerepublic.com so these kneejerk liberals can get some education - if they're even interested in knowing the facts...


-- yang (yang@worshipword.com), August 23, 1999.

I think a lot of people don't realize that socialism is just another tool in the plutocratic toolbox. The Communists were funded by international bankers, the Rockefellers and others. The ACLU was founded by Stalinists. Stalin was a big fan of gun registration; that registration was used later to confiscate all weapons, and after that he killed more people than Hitler (only Mao topped his record later, using the same tactics). This is the result of giving up individual liberty, of loosening the United States Constitution's limitations on Federal Government, of allowing Federal Government to usurp the power of the States, of allowing the Chief Executive to rule by fiat, like a feudal Emperor (via Executive Orders and Presedential Decision Directives). Clinton is a socialist, and his plans for America are pure State Socialism. He HAS been bought and paid for by Chinese Communists. To understand how a wealthy elite could be for socialism or communism, you have to realize that it's a lie. It will never happen; it's a way of controlling people, by making them believe they are empowered through the state. You have to understand the astounding degree to which wealth has been concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, and how, in a certain socialist configuration like the Nazis, the very rich stay in control; it is only the masses who are enslaved (think of the financiers who funded both sides, and the families who controlled, and still control to this day, huge State corporations like Krupps and I.G. Farben). For them, socialization is merely a crystallization phase and a consolidation of power.


-- alarmist (alarmist@sheep.pen), August 23, 1999.

K.Stevens: LOL, dude! Maybe the FRB's machines should be called "money sNorting machines"!!

Deano: Normally, I think of you as a stooge, but it is now quite obvious: You are too STUPID to be a stooge. Gawd!

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 23, 1999.

Frredom and Order are mutually exclusive. The more you have of one, the less you have of the other. This sort of thing (the cash seizures) are the inevitable result of the demands of the populace for a risk-free society.

The real tragedy is not that "totalitarians" have snuck in and hijacked our gov't. The real tragedy is that we are getting exactly what we (Americans) asked for. There is such a thing as being "too safe".

There is an irony here, however. As we all scramble to cram as much food, water and other preps into our houses as we can, before 01/01/00, what unforseen costs will we pay, for trying to be "too safe"?


-- Bokonon (bokonon@my-Deja.com), August 23, 1999.


Is there no one at the helm, and are the people to blame? Yes - and no. The people are to blame for being the people - i.e., being responsive to the fear and hope stimulus of the elites. But you can't tell Y2k-savvy folks (who have just seen the Lord's Navy report waved away with a Kosky lie, aided by a complicit media) that the government, banks and big business aren't conspiring to manipulate them and limit their access to the truth. This takes a lot of effort and coordination. And it's nothing new.


-- alarmist (alarmist@sheep.pen), August 23, 1999.

We can only wonder what's going to happen later this year when survivalists, loaded down with guns and ammunition, begin hitting the road for their rural retreats...

-- CS Man (csm@smoke.com), August 23, 1999.

Where ever you choose to put it??? Like these guys??? Now you're making some real sense!!!! Good job boneheads!!

If these guys money was in the bank, know what??? IT WOULD STILL BE THERE.

Burying it in your backyard, or in your mattress just opens you up for trouble. Plain and simple.

KOS - I can't understand you with that dick in your mouth. Please try again when your finished.


-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 23, 1999.


There's not a lot of substance to go with the juvenile filth and malice you're offering here. Nothing supports your contention that money is safe in the bank. You haven't refuted any of the numerous arguments to the contrary on this thread, and your assertions are belied by the reports of Congress, the Senate, the General Accounting Office, Gallup Polling and the Banking Industry itself.

CS: The economy and the infrastructure are about to collapse due to gross, criminal mismanagement, greed and shortsightedness, and you point a finger of accusation at the little people who are just trying to save their families and warn eachother?


-- alarmist (alarmist@sheep.pen), August 23, 1999.


One of life's toughest lessons, is that no one looks out for you, like yourself. Failure to learn that lesson always has dire consequences. If you scream at your elected officials, "Do something to make me safe!", they will comply, because they will want to get elected again. And if you scream, "Do something to make me safe!", and just walk away and assume that they will, of course, accomplish that goal, in exactly the way you want them to, I'm afraid you will be in for some very unpleasant surprises, down the road.

The phrase "the cost of freedom, is eternal vigilance", does not just apply to picking up guns and shooting at people. It applies to us always staying involved with the operations of gov't and always employing critical thinking skills, when someone says that this or that new law will fix everything.

Am I being "holier-than-thou", waving a judgemental finger at the sins of others? Not hardly. I've committed many of these sins myself. The only difference is, I accept the consequences of my actions. If I get lazy about political involvement and something doesn't turn out the way I hoped, then I take my whack on the wrist and hope that it teaches me a valuable lesson, for the next go-round.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 23, 1999.


We're pretty much in agreement. Except that the "whack on the wrist" could be the end of this Republic, and our "next time" for democracy and freedom could be centuries if not millenia away. The stakes are high here, and while I agree with your emphasis on individual responsibility, I've found it rewarding to study those entities which work so diligently to make us dependent, and work to undermine our liberties. Statism doesn't happen by itself; there is a lot of hard work on the part of a lot of people to turn freely associating and contracting people into a dependent socialist anthill. I think these people and their methods should be identified, as a necessary prerequisite to our liberation from their noxious influence. In a nutshell, people left to their own devices will form spontaneously cooperative networks that distribute wealth on merit. When elitist social engineers take over and impose such networks, they fail (and typically kill people by the millions attempting to fit humanity to their utopian vision). As a great philosopher once wrote, in regard to spontaneously-forming human networks:

"Oh the wino sleeping down in Central Park And the Lion-hunter in the jungle dark And the Chinese dentist and the British Queen All fit together in the same machine. Nice, nice, very nice: So many people in the same device."


-- alarmist (alarmist@sheep.pen), August 23, 1999.

Last I heard, in order to get your property back, you had to post a 10% bond to even have the right to appeal the theft, er, forfeture. Hard to do when they've frozen your bank accounts, confiscated your car, and house, isn't it?

It's called LEGISLATED PLUNDER OF THE PEOPLE, and it has to stop. So what if the hooded fools at the Supreme Court say if it's ok to steal without ever proving that the person committed a crime.

The only way it'll ever stop is if we make it too unprofitable to continue with. If they want to steal your property, assume that you will likely NEVER get it back. Destroy it before you allow it to be stolen (like the concept of potlach :) ). Burn your house before you let them take it. Burn your car before you let them take it., etc.

If they try to arrest you, do what you have to. A thug with a badge is still a thug.

-- Bill (billclo@msgbox.com), August 24, 1999.


Maybe I did go overboard in what I said. Quite honestly, I've been called 'stupid', among other things, one too many fucking times on this board. I'm tired of it. I have offered good news in the past only to have some doomer loser call me a liar and a shill. I've been working Y2K projects for a couple years now and I KNOW what is going with hundreds of companies out there, like it or not it is a fact.

Most on here have made up their minds WHAT is going to happen no matter what ANYONE says. Anything contrary to that is generally refered to as 'stupid' or 'asinine' or something along those lines. I'm tired of it.

There was even a thread on here about 'hoping for a 9 or 10'!! I'm sorry, but that's just about as fucking sick as you can get. Hoping for millions to die so the 'gene pool' can be cleansed??? I'm not saying you advocate such thoughts, but I sure have seen a few on this BB do so. It's nothing less than sickening!

I have no sympathy for complainers. None. And this BB is full of them.


-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 24, 1999.


I sympathize with you. But please consider that you may be just as "stuck" in your viewpoint as they are. This thing has made me humble, just because of the size of it, if not the potential damage it can do. I still think that the evidence is of a major disruption resulting in a depression, and lives lost due to high population density combined with sewer and water failures, etc.. International trade will collapse at the source. Telecommunications doesn't look good at all... and so on - you've heard it. You've also heard the logic: it's more prudent to prepare a little than to wish you had. I think most "doomers" by far wish they didn't have to prepare; they hope and pray that they have overdone it, have bought too much food and not too little. They pray for the people who aren't preparing. These are the people I know, anyway. As for leaving money in the bank, the logic is clear in that instance also: 40-some% of the population plan to withdraw money before Y2k; that alone is sufficient reason to withdraw now. You are out on a limb when you claim or imply that we all "have a duty" to forstall panic by calmly losing everything we have on deposit, in what is after all a private, profit-making bank. Bank runs are inevitable, a built-in hazard of the banking system itself. Please consider the possibility that you are afraid of a bank run, and that you are projecting that fear onto your fellow victims. Don't abuse them - we're all in the same boat.


-- alarmist (alarmist@sheep.pen), August 24, 1999.


I appreciate your thoughts.

Am I 'afraid' of a bank run?? Quite honestly - hell yes! Will I have extra cash on hand?? I'll have cash on hand as normal. I usually hit the ATM twice a month for spending $$. I may only hit it once in early December - not because I think the system is going to tank because of Y2K failures, but because I think that too many folks will empty their accounts out of fear and there's only so much cash to go around.

If your money is in the bank, no one can rob you and kill you for it. I know, I know, there are several folks that are armed to the hilt and prepared to kill everyone in sight. How many of them (Veterans of war and Cops excluded) have ever shot a real live person before? My guess is NONE. Will they be able to?? They'll tell you YES, but shooting someone that's shooting at you with real bullets is a lot different in real life than it is on television. I wonder how good the aim will be with a load of shit in their drawers?? Probably pretty stinky...

I have NEVER (once again, NEVER) ridiculed anyone for modest preparations. I live in hurricane territory. A pantry full of food is not a bad idea this time of the year down here.

I do have a hard time with folks who have quit their jobs, sold their homes, emptied their retirement funds and moved to the stix because they think Y2K will be the end all. I see them throwing their lives away. For the folks with children, their lives too - that's the one that hurts the most. I work with kids on the ballfield 9 months a year down here. To think that there's a group of kids out there that's slopping hogs because his dad freaked out, instead of being a kid and playing Little League (or anything else that kids do) tears me up.


-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 24, 1999.

Gawd, get out the hankies, start up the violin music.

Deano, unless you can GUARANTEE that you know absolutely for sure that Y2K is going to turn out as YOU think it will be, you have no right to criticize anyone who made choices in their life on how they will deal with Y2K. Regardless of whether its moving to the sticks, or moving into a NYC highrise.

And frankly, based on the stuff you wrote above, it is doubtful that you should be ALLOWED around children!!! But don't take my word for it, print out a copy of this thread, and show it to the parents of the kids you work with. See what they have to say about it.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 24, 1999.


I'm noticing that you seem to see yourself as separate from the bank run. You are part of it. Most people in a bank run will be thinking exactly as you are: not afraid of Y2k, but afraid of other people who are afraid (like you). And rightly so. It's a problem with the banking system - the people are clearly functioning just fine.

As for the people who have bought a farm and whose kids are slopping hogs: if the situation is much worse than either of us believe it will be (say, the depression I expect, plus domestic political upheaval and repression, combined with nuclear war in Pakistan and/or Korea and/or Taiwan) then these people will have done us all a favor by preparing so throroughly; a portion of humanity will be relatively unscathed and self-sufficient, not burdening emergency services and recovery efforts. On the other hand, if Y2k is a "bump" the kids will have missed a season or two of little league in return for some home schooling (far superior to the rotten public school system) and will have learned something about animal husbandry and honest labor. Let them go their own way. We can't all head for the hills. But it's not a good idea for all of us to stay put either.


-- alarmist (alarmist@sheep.pen), August 24, 1999.

I have to disagree.

I'm not taking out any more than I normally would any other month. That does not make me part of the problem. I'm going on 'business as usual'. It's the folks that are emptying their accounts and burying it in the backyard or hiding it in the mattress that are the problem.

KOS - I still can't understand you dude??? you ain't finished with that thing yet???


-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 24, 1999.


Okay, so you are going to lose some money. That's your choice. Other people see the tidal wave coming and decide to get out of the way. That's their choice.

What do you have to say to the objection that the banking system has a built-in vulnerability to this type of event? In order for banking to be the "license to print money" that some (S&L crooks) have described it as, it needs to be based upon "consumer confidence" (that's confidence, as in "confidence game"). You seem to prefer blaming those who (I'm going to use all caps for emphasis here, brace yourself) SIMPLY CHOOSE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THEIR HARD-EARNED MONEY.


-- alarmist (alarmist@sheep.pen), August 24, 1999.

Forget it, alarmist! You know that saying, "As pearls before swine"???? The boy is STUPID, you are wasting your time!!! "Duhhh. Leave your money in the bank so yuhh don't get in trouble with the cops. Yeah, you don't want to cause trouble, because the cops will take your money. Unless you leave it in the bank. Yeah, thats it. 'Cause otherwise you are a problem and will get in trouble with the cops. So leave your money in the bank. Duhh."

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 24, 1999.


You gigantic ass!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 25, 1999.

KOS and Andy

I recon you 2 ARE the resident genius's here.

You prove it day in and day out.

I am in awe.........;-)


-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), August 25, 1999.

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