FBI Becomes Involved in Bois Blanc Dispute: More on the Stittsgreenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread |
From: Norm Olson, INTERNET:normolson@northlink.net DATE: 8/19/99 10:01 AMRE: FBI Gets Involved in Bois Blanc v. Stitt Family
"I don't like snakes; and if I have a chance to toss a cobra into a nest of rattlers, I'll do it with a smile." -Norm Olson
PRESS RELEASE - FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contacts: Norman Olson, 231-548-5878, Mike & Chris Stitt 231-634-7030, Matt Fitzpatrick, FBI Lansing, 517-487-1850 Peck & Assoc. 906-635-6286
FBI Becomes Involved in Bois Blanc Dispute Charges of Corruption to be Investigated
Bois Blanc Island, MI (August 19) - Fearing what may still result in an armed standoff on Bois Blanc Island, the FBI today said that a preliminary investigation would be launched into charges of corruption and abuse of power by township officials.
In what appears to be an effort to defuse a potential crisis, the FBI contacted militia leader Norman Olson and learning of the militia's involvement with the dispute on Bois Blanc Island in northern Michigan. FBI Special Agent Matt Fitzpatrick,(Lansing, MI, office) questioned Olson, Commander of the Northern Michigan Regional Militia, about the potential for an armed conflict. Olson said in a press release today that he told Agent Fitzpatrick that arms were very much in the plan if the militia was called upon to protect the Stitt family. "That may still be necessary, depending on where this goes." When questioned for the reason the dispute on Bois Blanc Island began, Olson indicated that he suspected corruption, conflicts of interest, and abuses of power to be the primary factors the township targeted the Stitt family. "Mike and Chris would not play along with the corruption. Chris initiated a complaint that resulted in a neighbor being charged for cultivating $1.2 million in marijuana with the sheriff's knowledge. It seems that other people on the island may have profited from the crop of illegal substance." "Moreover," Olson explained to Fitzpatrick, "it was about that time that the township began its most severe persecution of the family. It was impossible for the Stitts to have a neutral or impartial hearing before the zoning board when they sought a variance for their property. They had made enemies of the people on the board and the board used its power to selectively target the Stitts with charges ranging far beyond what was originally in the complaint. From what I've seen and heard, I an investigation is needed and overdue." According to Olson, Fitzpatrick asked if the Stitts had contacted the FBI. When Olson answered that they contacted the militia instead, Fitzpatrick asked Olson if an investigation should be started. "We've been asked to bow out. Without the militia, the Stitts are at risk and trouble can still erupt at any time. Right now my hands are tied, but lacking justice, we may at the last minute still have to get involved." Fitzpatrick said he would take action to begin an investigation into charges of corruption. With this, Olson contacted Lyle Peck, Attorney for Bois Blanc Township and told him that the FBI was on the way and to tell his clients on the island to get their "ducks in a row." "I want them to sweat and to feel the fear and stress of possibly losing everything they've worked for. I want those people on the board to feel what its like to have a government agency disrupting their life for a change. Let them feel what its like to face the threat of fines and jail, having to explain your every move to the authorities. That's what they've done to Mike and Chris. Now let them feel the heat for a while. The feds aren't swayed by petty bureaucrats and if they want to avoid the militia becoming involved once again, they'll bring these tyrants to task. "Personally, I don't trust the feds any more than I trust that bunch of gangsters on Bois Blanc Island. Their involvement was inevitable. But it may serve to put pressure on the board for the irregularities in township government and the crime of selective prosecution. It will also put the feds to the test so the public can see just how interested they are in preventing trouble. The feds in this case may turn out to be like the petty bureaucrats on the Bois Blanc Board. Anyway, they are in it now and the militia is standing by. My hope and prayer is that justice will prevail and the Stitts will be left alone to raise their beautiful children unmolested by tyrannical bureaucrats. If not, the possibly of armed defense of the Stitts still lingers. We are at a critical stage now and it can go either way. Now that the feds are involved, the entire American militia will be watching." "I'm very doubtful about the township or the fed's ability to do the right thing. I don't like snakes; and if I have a chance to toss a cobra into a nest of rattlers, I'll do it with a smile."
END PRESS RELEASE
-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), August 20, 1999
Now, after the cobra takes care of the rattlers, can we toss in a mongoose to get the cobra? Yee-haw!! Let the games begin!!This press release has clarified several points for me, if it's true. Following is based on that assumption.
Bottom line -- the Stitts appear to be jerkoff busybody moralists for their anti-drug warring, and they are getting payback.
The militia thus appears to be on the wrong side of this. They should butt out. But since most of these militia wackos are religious Christian drug warrioring wackos, that's to be expected.
It seems to me that if the Stitts had minded their own fricking business, they would have had a lot less, probably zero, problems.
None of this is to justify zoning laws, as I have detailed in other "Stitt" threads, here.
-- A (A@AisA.com), August 20, 1999.
A...You know I feel sorry for you young feller.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), August 20, 1999.
A,You forgot to mention... all is well. Y2K is going to be nothing more than a bump in the road. Sleep sheeple, sleep.
Yes, you can read and have some level of reading comprehension... that don't mean much. You can see, but do you look? A Husserlian question.
Cheers! Stan Faryna
-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), August 20, 1999.
I have to agree with A on this one. It seems to me the FBI is taking cautious investigative steps, instead of jumping on a side. On the other hand, what does the FBI have to do with this? I can't get the vision of seeing two FBI agents shooting into the kitchen area at Waco out of my head.Good work Stan.
-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), August 20, 1999.
Stan, had this family been having any trouble before they threw a wrench into the high dollar 'business' that apparently several had been profitting from? You know, the well known enterprise that tends to damage people's property values :)?A, do you have adolecent kids? Please say you aren't one of those 'parents' who would sit down and torch up an illegal substance with your or *other* peoples 'kids'? I'd prefer neighbors with stinky pigs over pot harvesters any day! If you want to smoke it, that's your business. If you want to farm it next door to me.....we have a little problem called "innocent children caught in the crossfire" OR "my daughter has just been court ordered to a mandatory *two year* sentence of probation, invasive psychological evaluations complete with 'idiot savant' court *record* results, mandatory costly drug rehab participation complete with family counciling, public service done between mandatory work schedules and school attendence", simply because she lived next door to irresponsible 'mind-numbing' assholes.
The Stitt PARENTS did the RIGHT thing for their CHILDREN. If they faced unlawful persecution for this OR for deciding their children would be better served to be home schooled or for not obtaining a permit to build a barn or WHATEVER the 'local powers to be' decided they should be stripped of everything they have and thrown out on the road FOR........please. Does the 'fricking' punishment fit the crime? Those imbicils who where farming an illegal substance to the tune of (how much street value in cash, tax free?) recieved 4 lousy *months* of jail time compared to the *two years* of invasive, expensive, court ordered slavery MY daughter recieved just last year for having a friend's 'parents' PARTY DOWN with MY kid, FITS THE CRIME....I'll kiss your ass. Reality check everyone.
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 20, 1999.
(soft spoken, calm and collected voice here....please)I certainly hope the FBI tears the PTB new bung-holes. If not.....I'm pulling for anyone who would be willing to 'mow the suckers down'. You see.....the country has gone insane. There is no sanity, justice, or Constitution any longer.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 20, 1999.
I guess my question would be: What gives the federal gov the authority to intervene in a local matter? On surface, it would seem to be better than an armed confrontation, and yet it does seem like the camel's nose is a bit farther into the tent.gene
-- gene (ekbaker@essex1.com), August 20, 1999.
The camel has been crapping in EVERYBODY'S tent for more years than I've been on the planet. Go figure!
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 20, 1999.
BTW...I'm about to spend the ENTIRE day on the road (many will be relieved to know). Before I leave, I'd like to thank you Stan, for your contribution of keeping us informed on this subject.I'd also like to remind some of our resident nit-wits that the Stitt's oldest daughter may be reviewing some of your hair-brained, mindless comments. I shall return!
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 20, 1999.
A:Did you take your medication today?
-- cynic (cynic@skeptic.com), August 20, 1999.
Folks:A is probably a drug user or dealer, thus his dislike for anyone who takes a stand against illegal drugs. By the way A, perhaps BC coulda used your services down in Mena, Ark. Give him a call. He may still have openings.
-- cynic (cynic@skeptic.com), August 20, 1999.
The Stitts were pissed because they weren't in on the "profits" from the marijuana sale. So, they ratted on their neighbors and this is what they get.
-- George (nosympathyhere@nosympathyheree.com), August 20, 1999.
Obviously, George, is in fact, the Judge who has been ruling over this area.............The only problem I've detected that A suffers from is an adament dislike for anyone of any 'faith'. It clouds his judgement terribly and renders him nearly useless in a quest to restore America's Constitution.....VERY unfortunate indeed.
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 20, 1999.
Pardon me, but the Federal government are the people you are supposed to turn to when faced with local corruption. Who else could you turn to? Legally, I mean.And yes, I saw what happened at Waco, including the non-ambush of the ATF, the armored vechicle turning the building in to a fire box and the bulldozers pushing the unburned parts of the crime scene back in to the flames. I saw the infared video presented in "Waco: the rules of engagment". There is a huge problem.
But there are still plenty of good agnets in the FBI. At Ruby Ridge, four out of the Five sniper teams ignored the illegal orders to shoot unarmed adults. Maybe that means that 20% of FBI agents are thugs across the board. But I believe that the majority of the agency is still trustworthy. They can help in the Stitts case.
Remain calm and keep your...
-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), August 20, 1999.
"I did stupider things when I was drinking, than when I smoked pot" paraphrasing Governor Jessie "the brain" VenturaThe debate isn't over the use of drugs, it is over which drugs are ok to use. Coffee, cigarettes and booze are ok. Pot, cocaine and mushrooms are not. The drug war, like most wars, is a waste of time and money, but politics demands a cause, a fight, a ralleying point and this is theirs. Time marches on.
-- Bill (y2khippo@yahoo.com), August 20, 1999.
Our Forefathers were all potheads! They all sat around and shared a joint from time to time. The Stitts are pissed because they were left out of the loop. What goes around comes around. BTW, I don't smoke pot, I tried it, I even inhaled, but I didn't like the way it made me feel.
-- George (nosympathyhere@nosympathyhere.com), August 20, 1999.
Will continue:Agree with your assumption of who "George" is. It takes all kinds, I guess. :)
-- cynic (cynic@skeptic.com), August 20, 1999.
Marijuana prohibition has never been about marijuana,it's all about hemp,baby,yeah!!Big buisness knows that one acre of land that is agriculturaly unsuitable for any other cash crop can produce 4.1 times the paper,without the bleaching process,that fir trees produce.The waste product(hurds) can be used in biomass fuel conversion to make 20 barrels of non-polluting methane(clean fuel). Prohibition has never kept potheads from smoking pot.But it has kept the small family farmers from growing a viable cash crop that can be used in food,fuel,construction,clothing,paint...it is an amazing plant.Big business wants to continue cutting down trees and selling fossile fuels. By the way,before you try to take a (eroneous)high ground,according to the f.b.i. statistics on mortality,tobacco kills 430,000 yearly,while in all medical history marijuana has never killed one person.Ask your doctor which is less dangerous,a cigarette,a whiskey,or a joint.It's never been about marijuana.
-- mike (mike@wal-mart.com), August 20, 1999.
I certainly hope that the discussion was "full and frank" as the striped pants set would put it. The FEDS ought to understand that things could go VERY wrong VERY quickly.
-- K. Stevens (kstevens@ It's ALL going away in January.com), August 20, 1999.
ah for the wisdom' of soloman.--a man who asked god 'NOT FOR RICHES--BUT FOR=WISDOM. we are in the age=of lotsa knowledge,but far too little=wisdom.---bye,bue american-pie.
-- it,ll get worse-until. (dogs@zianet.com), August 20, 1999.
ah for the wisdom' of soloman.--a man who asked god 'NOT FOR RICHES--BUT FOR=WISDOM. we are in the age=of lotsa knowledge,but far too little=wisdom.---bye,bye american-pie.JESUS WILL YOU PLEASE HURRY-BACK & STRAIGHTEN-THIS MESS OUT.
-- it,ll get worse-until. (dogs@zianet.com), August 20, 1999.
washington never smoked marijuana,but he did cultivate hemp,a big differance.Hemp played a big part in the war effort.Hemp was used as the principle fabric.cotton was very expensive.hemp was cheap.In wwII hemp was used extensivly,prompting the government to make "HEMP FOR VICTORY" a propaganda film encouraging farmers to grow hemp for the war effort.When Gerorge "junta-man" bush bailed out of his bomber his life was saved by a hemp parachute and his boots were held together by hemp lacing.Marijuana prohibition has never been about marijuana,it's about corporate big-business not wanting hemp in the market place.There were an estimated 200 pot smokers in the storeyville area of new orleans when William Randolf Hearst was running his (then unknown of)tabloid journalism articals warning the american public of a terrible new danger;white women were smoking "devil-weed"marijuana and having sex with black men!!! obviously something needed to be done.Of course this had nothing to do with the fact that popular mechanics had just months before released an article hailing the invention of a new hemp decorticator,allowing hemp to be comercialy harvested for the first time offering small family farmers "a new billion dollar crop"(1920's dollars).Hearst's rabid hatred of hemp OF COURSE hadd nothing to do with the fact that W.R. Hearst was pushing for legislation allowing him to deforrest millions of acres of tree's for his tabloid news empire.The largest private owner of timberland in the usa.Pot prohibition is one of the greatest victories of big money against the common man.Before W.r.Hearst,people believed what they read in the press,he created "yellow"tabloid journalism.
-- mike (mike@wal-mart.com), August 20, 1999.
Al-d has been banned from Pastor Chris's site for some time. They seem to have higher standards over there and chased this fool away. You see, Mr. Driscol is somewhat of a scumbag that wouldn't pay his gambling debts and took the 'boys' to court for attempting to collect. The story is that he won a settlement of $11 million dollars (guess they were asking real hard for the money owed) but has yet to see a penny of it. He and his wife (Marianne) were pleading for the folks on Pastor Chris's site to pray for them....to no avail. He is giving the hillbilly's of the world a bad name, not to mention the honest Christians of the world. Unfortunately, he has developed somewhat of a following on this forum and continues to pollute the threads at will. Kind of like waiting to see what the village idiot will do next....
-- (INc@seu.missedit), August 20, 1999.
Thanks for the update Stan..This situation has the potential to escalate in many directions and one has to wonder if the FBI would be involved if not for the Michigan Militia (strange bedfellows are they not?). Let us all remember that freedom is not an unrestricted right to do whatever one wishes. I challenge all of you to say you have never complained about a neighbor's barking dog, loud music, unruly children, etc. A society without discipline is doomed to collapse. There are always at LEAST two sides to every issue and we have yet to hear the whole story regarding the Stitt Family. And yes, it is somewhat embarrassing that the Stitt daughter might read the moronic ramblings of Will Continue and A. Please understand Ms. Stitt that these two out-there idiots are not representative of most TB2000 forum posters. Keep up the good work Stan and thanks again for your updates.
-- For (your@info.com), August 20, 1999.
Stan, Thanks for your continuing updates on what I consider to be a very important story.This situation is not about building permits, marijuana laws, the FBI, child-rearing practices, religious beliefs, or the Michigan Militia. This is about a family of 6 who have built a self-sustaining farm in a rural locale because of their concerns about what Y2K may bring. There is now a court order that requires them to tear down all structures and dispose of or remove all livestock and tools no later than October 7, 1999, 3 months before the rollover. Whether I agree with the Stitt's actions regarding building permits, or their religious views and moral values is completely irrelevant at this point. Here we have a family with 4 children, the youngest only 4 months old, who are able to completely provide for themselves (and perhaps a few of their neighbors as well) in the event that Y2K brings disruptions (either temporary or sustained) in essential services. For pity's sake, these people must be allowed to remain where they are, at least until we're certain that they, and their community, are out of harm's way. Can there be any justifiable reason to destroy a self-sustaining farm at this point in history, when a 6 month variance would allow us to wait and see if Y2K really is a BITR?
-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), August 20, 1999.
I believe that when people are up to illegal activities, it is usually kept hidden as best they can. Now, how the Stitts came across their information, either being told or snooping, we may never know. It is probably safe to assume the Stitts would have been a target no matter what, and that is a shame. As for their actions, and the possibility of involving an extremist group to protect them, it doesn't pass the smell test. I would not leap so fast to defend them. They may reap what they have sown...
-- Gia (laureltree7@hotmail.com), August 20, 1999.
Click your heels together three times...
-- Much ado about nada (You've.all@been.whacked.in.the.heads), August 20, 1999.
A is probably a drug user or dealer, thus his dislike for anyone who takes a stand against illegal drugs. By the way A, perhaps BC coulda used your services down in Mena, Ark. Give him a call. He may still have openings.-- cynic (cynic@skeptic.com), August 20, 1999.
Horseshit!
So, in your mind I suppose that anyone who saw the failings of alcohol prohibition was either a drunk or a bartender? Have you ever opened a history book?
-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), August 20, 1999.
Looks like when TSHTF that I'm gonna have a lot of targets of opportunity. Pussy wuss PC bleeding heart busybody liberal fascists. Moralistic Christian budybody conservative fascists. Note to both: Mind you own f*ing business. Stay out of my way. If you can't control your little juvenile delinquents in the making, consider retroactive abortion.You idiots don't get it -- the government loves both of you types of idiots -- it means more power to the government. You wacko conservatives bleat for the government to "war on drugs" -- take over the responsibility for your lives and your kids lives. You pusswuss liberals get your feelings hurt because someone says "fag" or comments on a girl's ass, and you bleat for the government to prevent getting your feelings hurt.
I hope I last at least five minutes longer than you a*holes, so I can watch you die. You aren't people, you are sheep. You are ready for the slaughter (if not the shepherd having his way with you where your wool is brown).
Joke:
Q: What's the missing link between apes and civilized man?
A: Us?
-- A (A@AisA.com), August 20, 1999.
So far, it appears the Stitts *have* taken responsibility for their lives and their kids lives, but what would a, "rambling moron, out- there idiot" know?I DO know that the death of outrage in this country, will be the very thing that does it in. By all means America, just continue going on about your OWN business.
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 20, 1999.
Will Discontinue: Stitts may have taken responsibility for their lives. They also, it seems, arrogantly assumed responsibility for some others, also. It's called interference, meddling, busybodiness, patronization, self-righteousnous. As a result they are suffering from payback. Quite properly, I might add. (You bible-thumpers do remember something like "ye shall reap what ye sow"? don't you? Lefties call it "karma.")Like I said before, I don't agree with zoning laws, but when you're at war, you use what weapons are available.
If the Stitts had clean hands, then I would say a pox on the council members' houses. But as it is (seems to be), a pox on the Stitts'.
-- A (A@AisA.com), August 20, 1999.
Lemme see if I understand this:If I find out that the folks next door have set up a meth lab here in lovely San Diego (aka, "meth capital of the known universe"), you're saying that I should just let 'em have their fun? Maybe beef up the security a bit (razor wire, etc.) just in case a customer gets a bit too "excitable", but otherwise, do nothing?
-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), August 20, 1999.
A,You seem to have information that no one else has reported...perhaps you could share your source? First, you seem to know that the Stitts's are being targeted because of the marijuana charges. Can you tell me if the marijuana charges occurred before or after Mr. Stitts was arrested for failure to acquire a building permit? Or, were they before or after charges of child abuse were entered against the Stitts's, investigated and dropped? Or, was it before or after the Stitts's removed their children from the public school, which resulted in the school's closure, the teacher (whose husband is a member of the board) losing her $35,000/year job, and the Island's property taxes increasing by as much as $900 per homeowner? Finally, was it before or after the Stitts's were ordered to destroy all structures on their property by October 7th?
Also, please note, that there has never been an accusation against the Stitts's that their farm violates zoning laws. The accusation is that they failed to get a building permit for their barn. It is a matter of public record that no zoning law has been violated.
-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), August 20, 1999.
Just a little article on the upstanding Norm Olsen. Sounds like he might be the Stitt neighbor's best customer.The Northern Michigan Regional Militia, also known as the Michigan Militia, has attracted national attention in the wake of the April 19 bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
Group leaders have said that Terry Nichols. a suspect in the Oklahoma blast, attended several of its meetings last year and that on at least one occasion he brought another suspect. Timothy McVeigh. Additionally, federal agents searching the Decker, Michigan farm of Terry Nichols's brother James -- who has been considered a material witness in the bombing case-uncovered a number of documents relating to the Michigan Militia.
Not surprisingly, leaders of the Michigan Militia have disagreed with federal officials about the identity of the bomber, and have offered a theory of their own. A week after the blast. Michigan Militia commander Norman Olson, along with his chief of staff, Ray Southwell, announced that they believed the Japanese had bombed the Oklahoma building. The motive: retaliation for the recent nerve gas attack on the Tokyo subways, which Olson and Southwell said was engineered by the American government.
When their view was repudiated by a majority of the Militia's board, the two men immediately resigned from their positions. Olson assured the press that, nevertheless, "the Michigan Militia is as strong as ever," and that he and Southwell will remain members of the organization.
Despite negative publicity since the Oklahoma city bombing, the militia movement in Michigan has enjoyed some continued success in its recruitment.
Mark from Michigan
Minutes after the bombing in Oklahoma, outspoken activist Mark Koernke (a.k.a. ''Mark from Michigan"), whose militant "how-to" videotapes have made him a prime recruiter for the movement. faxed a cryptic, handwritten message about the bombing to U.S. Rep. Steve Stockman, a freshman Republican from Texas. "First update," the fax read in part. "Seven to 10 floors only. Military people on the scene." Koernke insisted he had no prior knowledge of the bombing. and that he had only sent the fax hoping Stockman would "get cameras in place as soon as possible."
Koernke, of Dexter, Michigan, is employed as a janitor at the University of Michigan. He has been identified as spokesman of the Michigan Militia-at-Large, characterized as a more radical offshoot of the Michigan Militia. Koernke has promoted conspiracy theories to audiences around the country, including several in the Pacific Northwest while on a speaking tour sponsored by the Militia of Montana.
Until recently, Koernke also hosted "The Intelligence Report," a shortwave radio program that aired five times a week. Days after the Oklahoma bombing. Koernke told listeners that federal agents had outfitted suspect Timothy McVeigh in a bright orange jumpsuit in order to make him an easy assassination target.
Koernke's program was subsequentiy pulled from the airwaves by WWCR, the Nashville, Tennessee, shortwave radio station that had been broadcasting his daily diatribes. "We've got to get the gasoline off the fires," insisted the manager of the station, which reaches 2.7 million listeners in the United States and a number of foreign countries.
-- Norm (have@nother.toke), August 20, 1999.
Well A. I suppose in a way, you HAVE just answered my earlier question about whether or not you have children. Sorry about that, it tends to soften people and give them a slightly different perspective. BTW, I'm no Bible-thumper, I assure you. I DO believe in God. I just believe in our right to practice our religion of choice. I would defend *your* choice in that department too. What exactly is your position? I think the war on drugs has been a dismal failure as well. Last time I checked however, pot was still against the law. Too bad there is no actual 'justice' in our Justice System. Perhaps the Governor of New Mexico will promote some further attention to this problem. Then again, it's too late to work within the system any longer, IMHO. The whole darn thing is bought and paid for. Voting is just a ballot for the 'lovliest of the lovely'.I want the Constitution to be restored, period. I want to see morality, honor and a sense of duty in this country. It will take ethics and some code of conduct. Our society has lost touch with these things. My baby-boomer generation of 'free love' and peace turned into; me, me, me. Did it have anything to do with all of the rampant substance abuse (then AND now), or were we simply a generation of spoiled brats? Who knows. We have proven to be the most *dysfunctional* generation in the history of this country though. I can't imagine anyone denying this.
Just look at the reaction to this story. "Burn them at the stake". Sad indeed. It's much easier to make them 'wrong' so we can turn our backs and walk away from it, asking, "what did you want ME to do about it?"
As a Doomer, I must admit this makes me feel every bit as 'doomed' as Y2K ever has. It won't take Y2K to destroy this country because we've already doomed ourselves to untold horrors by our own self-inflicted apathy and our 'right' to indulge in it.
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 20, 1999.
Dang, I sure wish I hadn't promised Stan that I wouldn't say anything more on the Stitt family thing. Oh well...I'll just go outside and let out a wild scream.
-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), August 20, 1999.
Lemme see if I understand this: If I find out that the folks next door have set up a meth lab here in lovely San Diego (aka, "meth capital of the known universe"), you're saying that I should just let 'em have their fun? Maybe beef up the security a bit (razor wire, etc.) just in case a customer gets a bit too "excitable", but otherwise, do nothing?-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), August 20, 1999.
No Mac, what I am saying is that if this country had a sane drug policy, you might not have to worry about freelancers setting up a lab next door.
Do your neighbors distill whiskey?
-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), August 20, 1999.
Thanks for the info Norm. It shall be considered. How unfortunate any family should be desperate enough to require the services of the local militia OR FBI.
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 21, 1999.
Too bad the Stitts weren't Libertarians because none of this would have ever happened. But of course, the Stitts admit they aren't right bright.
-- George (nosympathyhere@nosympathyhere.com), August 21, 1999.
Here comes da Judge..........
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 21, 1999.
Mac: Uncle Deedah did a fine job of answering re meth lab next door.Ruok: All I know is what I've read in the previous posts and links. And I've said essentially that we (including me) don't know the whole story. And I don't know the timeline of the various events. Yes I read about the home schooling. I gather you're saying the council and their lackeys initiated harassment, so Stitts retaliated by reporting the pot farm? If so, DUMB move by the Stitts. Would not get them anything, and would piss their neighbors off even more. Especially since going to jail is just as life threatening as not being Y2K prepared.
Zoning / building permits. You're nitpicking. They're the same thing, essentially -- the government arrogates to itself the power as to what you can build on your property, and how. Zoning and permits are intertwined.
I'm perfectly willing to grant that the town council and their lackeys are a bunch of fascists. Most people are -- give 'em a little power and they think they're Caesar (or Klinton).
Problem is, so, likely, are the Stitts. Now they may be different from all the other Christian conservative wackos I know of, but I don't think so. (My bona fides include that I have subscribed to Alert, America's Bulletin, the Spotlight, and attended many a meeting of the "sovereignty movement.") They bleat about how Big Brother is corrupting their children and they just "want to be left alone" -- yet whenever they have the chance they would sitck their morality down your throat or up your arse.
Will Continue: Yes, the war on drugs has been a dismal failure. Last time you pot was still against the law. So what? Ever heard of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights? (I know you have.) There is no obligation by anyone to obey unlawful laws. Who decides what's unlawful? YOU have as much right to decide as your local Gestapo. Of course, they have more guns (and will have all of them, if they could.)
In conclusion, let me say that I was initially sympathetic to the Stitts until I heard about the pot move. They and the militia would have a much better case if their hands were clean. Bottom line note to all of you moralists (left or right) MYOB MYOB MYOB MYOB MYOB MYOB (mind your own business). Someone does crack and his nose falls off -- evolution in action. Someone watches porn and hair grows on his palm, so what? YOUR KID SEES PORN -- SO WHAT? Only because YOU have a hangup about sex is that a problem. Someone eats meat and both their soul and body rots [according to vegetarians, not me], so what? WHOSE LIFE IS IT, ANYWAY?
-- A (A@AisA.com), August 21, 1999.
BTW -- Any militia moves prior to government breaking down would be suicidal. And we all know how well "marches" or "shows of solidarity" work in changing anything (at least within a few months). Unless you've got huge percentages of the population involved. The number of the serious Y2K GIs PLUS the militias is not enough NOW to qualify as "huge". Individual action similar to that outlined in "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross is the only viable alternative at present. (see reviews at http://www.loompanics.com or http://www.amazon.com)
-- A (A@AisA.com), August 21, 1999.
A,Thanks for using this word>>>"sovereignty"
Ran a search with google.com(good engine). It gave me about 14,000 links.
So much to do, so little time.
-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), August 21, 1999.
Sorry A. Would you please clarify whether or not John Ross would describe my daughter as a juvenile delinquent or a victim of the system? You've managed to confuse me by jumping back and forth between an ideal and current reality. I intend to purchase the book on my next journey to Wichita (yuk).She is well aware of her responsibility in having placed herself within the system of Justice, and has never been in trouble before. She certainly doesn't consider herself a victim. You've mentioned this 'solution' an untold number of times, and I'm just curious. :)
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 21, 1999.
Will: Sorry about your daughter, but the fact that you have to ask the question means you are clueless.I can't speak for Ross, but I would say the odds are in favor that he would consider your kid a victim of government intrusiveness. I definitely do. If she ran your pickup through a neighbor's window -- that would be a civil action, not criminal, high or not. Not the government's business. If she heisted the 7-11, that would be criminal. But that would be a legit function of government to look at, if it has any legitimate functions, regardless of whether she's a little doper or not.
Most of those who consider themselves "good" people are generally self righteous. They get government to stick their noses where they don't have the guts to do it themselves.
So, bottom line -- both the 4 month sentence and the two years slavery euphemised as "probation" or "community service" or whatever, is unwarranted. Period.
You can kiss King of Spain's ass while mud wrestling with him. I'll accept that in lieu of kissing mine. //// Will: Sorry about your daughter, but the fact that you have to ask the question means you are clueless.
I can't speak for Ross, but I would say the odds are in favor that he would consider your kid a victim of government intrusiveness. I definitely do. If she ran your pickup through a neighbor's window -- that would be a civil action, not criminal, high or not, not the government's business. If she heisted the 7-11, that would be criminal. But that would be a legit function of government to look at, if it has any legitimate functions, regardless of whether she's a little doper or not.
Most of those who consider themselves "good" people are generally self righteous. They get government to stick their noses where they don't have the guts to do it themselves. 4 lousy *months* of jail time compared to the *two years* of invasive, expensive, court ordered slavery MY daughter recieved just last year for having a friend's 'parents' PARTY DOWN with MY kid, FITS THE CRIME....I'll kiss
-- A (A@AisA.com), August 21, 1999.
Will: I missed something. You said your daughter doesn't consider herself a victim. She certainly is a victim -- and not of your neighbors, adult or kid -- but of the government.The problem is, the sheeple aren't aware that they are being victimized. All that brown wool in the nether regions must act as an anaesthetic.
-- A (A@AisA.com), August 21, 1999.
I don't think I'm as clueless as you think, I'm just attempting to raise children who should be responsible and respectful of the laws in place. Until we have something different to work within, this is the *present* reality. Please excuse my emotionally heated exchange. The pain of her delema, most especially in light of Our President fluttering off to vacation in Martha's Vineyard, has at times made me irrational and angry. It's a Mother thing, I guess. I'm anxious to discover a book written that supports my position. I prefer forming it prior to assuming one. I'm honestly interested in his 'solutions' more than anything else. :)Thanks for responding. I request a cease-fire. Truce? After all, we are fellow members of the 'moronic rambling, out-there idiots' club! ROTFLOL
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 21, 1999.
Will: OK truce. You mentioned book -- are you talking about "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross? If you haven't read it yet, be aware that it is not about child raising (except it does have some very good parental (father/friends) role modeling, IMO. It is very (horrors!) radical -- conservative in some ways, not so conservative in others.If you're looking for books to support your position with the local Gestapo, "Unintended Consequences" is DEFINITELY not it. You will get on their "list" real fast, and it your're already on it, they will put an asterisk by your name.
If you're talking about psych/child raising books, maybe some by shrink Peter Breggin, or (from Amazon) what other people who bought Breggin's books also bought. There's another author or two, but I can't recall their names. If you dare, you might see what www.loompanics.com has in the psych area -- but their web site doesn't yet have nearly as much as their print catalogs.
My thoughts on the mother (and father) thing is that parents don't want their kids doing what they did at that age. :-)
"Responsible" and "respecting laws in place" are far from the same thing in this society. That's why it has to go down. Respect based on admiration or respect based on fear? Fear based respect is all that I have for most of the laws I am subject to. Real respect cannot be demanded. It can only be earned. Both contempt and respect are earned. Our system has only my contempt. These are, IMNSHO, are what you should impress on your children, not a "yess, massa," obedience to whatever the laws du jour happen to be. Reclaim a bit of your freedom today; break a law!"
-- A (A@AisA.com), August 21, 1999.
Thanks A. The last thing I'd buy is a psych book! Yikes! There's nothing wrong with this girl other than the fact that she's 18 (ooooph). I suspected as much about the Ross book. Too bad I'm not single and responsible for myself only. Respect *should* be earned. My children know this. The first thing I told my daughter was that she had just placed herself within the 'system'. Foolish indeed. "Be afraid, be very afraid."I'm a Mother. First priority. I feel a need to protect their country as well. They have a right to Freedom. There's much more to meeting their needs than shelter, food and water, know what I mean? The vote just don't cut it. Too many sheep.....being watched over by wolves.
-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 21, 1999.
Will: One last question; you can just answer it to yourself: I don't know how your daughter got busted. But did she place herself in the "system" or did the local Gestapo butt in and place her in it?
-- A (A@AisA.com), August 22, 1999.
This thread is getting a bit long - I think I'll let it wind down.