FOR THOSE THAT scoff at the existance, of satan.anyone see the interview with[son-of-sam?] how much of the violence nowaday,s is satanic??? he knows his day,s are short=will do as much damage as ALLOWED.=look for increase in violence. like the man said[i opened myself to satan]---check out the satanic websites-&-HATE GROUPS.THE RISE OF HITLER WORSHIP. co-incidence?---what plan,s are being laid for new-millennium??--is it just me' or has america-changed in last 20 years?--what,s with all the anger-&-rage? could it be a spirit? a bad-spirit.definatly not the=HOLY-SPIRIT. SO I ASK MYSELF=WHO,S IN CONTROL?--can we mere-mortal,s make it without=GODS HELP???

-- i was blessed. (dogs@zianet.com), August 17, 1999

Answers

or too put it another way. how much does the spirtual-dimension=affect the physical dimension?would you say=hitler was demonic??how about sodamn-hussien? JUST=CO-INCIDENCE?FOR THOSE WHO SCOFF AT AT SATAN=HE,S GOTCHA.---why do i talk so-much about spiritual things ?? because=we are not in control.we in u.s.a. make-jokes about THE-EVIL-ONE,but in 3rd world countries-it is no-joke.how much have we imported from other countries? & the rise in so-called physcic-hotlines>look,s so harmless.check-out all the new-eastern-religion-sites.paganism is on the rise.new-age-witchcraft-in-MILITARY.something,s wrong-folk,s. this ain,t the same america--the door has been -opened.it,s SHOW-DOWN-TIME.

-- wide-awake. (dogs@zianet.com), August 17, 1999.

Don't worry about this stuff, God is in control is he not? You know, you talk and speak about God a lot, but your posts certainly lack faith. I wonder if you even believe in him.

-- blessed too (blessedtoo@blessedoooo.com), August 17, 1999.

forgive my rambling,s, but i have a heavy-burden for my country.you say what,s this got to do-with=y2k? well can we pray y2k-away?and who will we pray=TOO?---or why-pray if spiritual things are=off-topic. we know what the problem is---what,s the answer??or will we wait to PRAY at the funeral?---is america' still 1 nation-under=GOD in whom we trust? or has it become a nation of false=gods?our-future lies in our ANSWER.LIKE joshua SAID 4000 YEARS AGO=''AS FOR ME & MY HOUSE WE WILL SERVE THE add>[TRUE & LIVING] GOD. i truly believe we are at the crossroad.on the edge of the presipice.FLAME-ON but what if it,s-so???

-- eyes to see. (dogs@zianet.com), August 17, 1999.

I think it is disgusting that ANYONE would give a DAMN what that piece of slime has to say about anything.

Other than possibly forensic FBI agents, Berkowitz shouldn't be given a platform to preach from.

Larry King and his ilk just add much needed credibility to that scumbag in the relentless search for ratings and shock value.

I just can't stand it when we get the yearly Charles Manson interviews. Or the various other interviews with other death row inmates. These are the dregs of society, why are they put on at Primetime?

Who the hell cares? This society is sick.

Jolly [sic]

-- Jollyprez (jolly@prez.com), August 17, 1999.

i guess you didn,t see the show? the man has been TOTALLY-TRANSFORMED. born-again=IS A REALITY.an awesome reality=of the GRACE of the saving-power of JESUS the CHRIST.he will spend the rest'of his life in prison[unless GOD intervenes] but he has more peace of soul,than many so-called FREE-WORLD=PEOPLE.the BLOOD-OF JESUS IS POWERFUL.yes america is very sick.only a change of heart can help now.the PARTY IS OVER. TIME TO PAY-THE BILL.

-- HUH?? (dogs@zianet.com), August 17, 1999.

True Zen consists of sitting quietly in the correct posture. It is not a special state, it is the normal state: silent, peaceful, without agitation. Zen means to put the mind at rest and to concentrate the mind and body. In zazen there is no purpose, no seeking to gain something, no special effort or imagination. It is not knowledge to be grasped by the brain. It is solely a practice, a practice which is the true gate to happiness, peace and freedom.

-- Richard Noggin (RichardNoggin@hockeymail.com), August 17, 1999.

Al unless you have had some loved one murdered by a piece of crap like Larry King's latest nut, then I suggest you zip your lip.

-- SgtSchultz (SgtHansSchultz@stalag13.com), August 17, 1999.

SOUNDS LIKE A NO-BRAINER.sorry noggin-but you can sit in zone-out til the cow,s come-home,but that won,t save your -soul. IT IS WRITTEN>> THERE IS NO-OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN--WHEREBY A SOUL CAN BE=SAVED=ONLY 1 SAVIOR=JESUS the christ.***hum now---bum-later***

-- UH YAH RIGHT. (dogs@zianet.com), August 17, 1999.

I will make you a deal Al, I will stop posting my beliefs as soon as you do. Okay?

-- Richard Noggin (RichardNoggin@hockeymail.com), August 17, 1999.

Buddhism is easily the coldest religion on earth. While other religions preach submission to an almighty being, Buddhism advocates independence, self-reliance and the pursuit of reason. Its goal is nothing less than the complete understanding of reality. What magnificence! But don't look to the Buddhists of today for guidance in these matters. They are as effeminate as Christians. They hate reality with a vengeance and do everything they can to banish reason from their minds. In effect, there are two types of Buddhism in existence. There is popular Buddhism with its temples, robes, rituals, chanting, meditation, gurus, acts of compassion, prayer wheels and all the rest. Then there is true Buddhism, the path of relinquishing all attachments. Millions flock to the temples and the gurus, but true Buddhism is practiced by very few. While monks and gurus regularly give "teachings" to their devoted followers in friendly environs, it is rare for their understanding to be challenged in any significant way. This is particularly true in these backward times of ours where false compassion reigns and reason is derided. Who among us is capable of confronting these gurus with a brandished sword, ready to behead any who make a false move? Indeed, who even believes that gurus should be confronted at all? Kevin and I thought it was high time at least one of them was brought before The Hour of Judgment. I rang the Brisbane Zen Centre and asked if anyone there was serious about Buddhism. The man at the other end of the line said, "Well, I'm a monk! Is that serious enough for you?" Despite his Australian accent, he called himself Do Kwang and said that he would love to come onto the program and "spread the message". Indeed, when a white caucasian, with head shaved and dressed in grey robes, strode into the studios on Sunday evening - looking more like a John Brown than a Do Kwang - he certainly appeared ready for business. His face was grim, his mind seemed focused. His colleague, however, seemed a little less sure of himself. Mervin Thomas, an Englishmen who taught mathematics, looked upon us warily for some reason, as if half-expecting us to suddenly leap at his throat. Perhaps he didn't like our scruffy clothes. Perhaps he was put off by our intellectual demeanour. I tried to reassure them both by saying that Kevin and myself considered ourselves to be enlightened and on the Buddhist path to perfection, and that they should regard the coming discussion as one of getting to the nitty-gritty of Buddhism. Think of it, I said, as four experts on Zen leisurely thrashing around the Dharma. Whether this calmed them or not, I do not know, but it certainly got the conversation into a proper focus within a very short space of time.

-- Richard Noggin (RichardNoggin@hockeymail.com), August 17, 1999.

DEAR SARGE, you missed the POINT.as usual. GOD did a miracle in the guy,s life.sure it would be a real test of faith; to forgive anyone who harm,s a loved one.but it can be-done with GOD,S HELP. besides physical-death is not the-end. it,s that spiritual-death that is scary.FLAME-ON.***got eternal--life=assurance??****p.s. vengeance belong,s too GOD. i used to live in hate--guess what---i,m free.

-- al-dares. (dogs@zianet.com), August 17, 1999.

"you missed the POINT.as usual." That was your quote right AL? So what are you saying Al, that you are smarter then I! Is that it? I could only be so "lucky" to be as wise as you. In case you forgot AL, this is a Y2K Forum, not an AL/Jesus Forum. Did I type that slow enough for you AL? You are a waste of my time.

-- SgtSchultz (SgtHansSchultz@stalag13.com), August 17, 1999.

One other thing AL, do you always believe everything you see on TV? Why don't you be a good soul AL and call up one of his victims family members and see if they feel the same way you do. You don't speak for the world AL, despite what you might believe.

-- SgtSchultz (SgtHansSchultz@stalag13.com), August 17, 1999.

SARGE, no i don,t think i,m smarter than you.but i understand-the REALITY of redemption.& no i don,t believe much of what i see' on t.v. did you see the show?killing another human-being is awful[been-there] but is it the un-pardonable-sin?MOSES KILLED an egyption in anger, yet GOD used moses. paul killed mucho believer,s , but GOD used him to write most of new-testament.GOD sure work,s in mysterios-way,s. people--murder every day=with the TONGUE. i can,t speak for the victim,s=wouldn,t dare. but a few have forgiven-the man. that,s awesome.

-- al-d. (dogs@zianet.com), August 17, 1999.

For some 26 centuries the Teachings of the Buddha have pointed the way towards happiness and inner peace for many millions of people in this sorrowful world. But who was Buddha Gotama? The Buddha was born as a human being in North India, the son of King Suddhodana and Queen Maha Maya Dewi. He was given the name Prince Siddhattha Gotama. At his birth it was predicted that the Prince would either become a world leader (universal monarch) or a Buddha (an Awakened One). This would depend upon whether or not he came into contact with the vicissitudes of life - with gain and loss, praise and blame, fame and notoriety, pleasure and pain. By this was meant that upon seeing the three characteristics of life, namely sickness (limitation), ageing (decay) and death (the unescapable end of all compounded things), he would be deeply moved by the consequences that they have for our life. For many years the King took care that the Prince did not come into contact with these, because he did not want him reflect upon the true nature of life. Surrounded by every pleasure and luxury of the time the Prince was kept far away from the unpleasant side of life. He married Princess Yasodhara and had a son, who was called Rahula.

Despite all of the Kings precautions it was not possible to safeguard the Prince against seeing ageing, sickness and death. In accordance with the prediction at his birth the Prince met respectively an old person, a sick person and a funeral cortege. Lastly he met a begging- monk (samana). As a result of the first three encounters the futility of life became clear to him and the fourth encounter showed him the serenity of someone who has renounced the world and who has freed himself from the influence of the world.

At the age of 29 the Prince (then still a Bodhisatta) renounced worldly life and for six years undertook extremely strict ascetic practices. Eventually he realised that this path of extreme self- denial and starvation was not the way and he discovered the Middle Way. By following this, at the age of 35, he attained Enlightenment, thereby becoming a Buddha. The Buddha himself said of this: "I am called the Buddha because I have understood the Four Noble Truths."

For forty five years the Buddha preached the Dhamma unceasingly to all "who had the ears to hear, the eyes to see and the mind to understand" - the Dhamma which is lovely in the beginning, lovely in the middle and lovely in the end. He taught people that, in contrast to what we often think and are led to believe, we ourselves must bring about Enlightenment in our own life and that we are not dependent upon the grace or help of another for this.

At the age of 80 the Buddha entered Mahaparinibbana, leaving his Teachings behind as his successor.

-- Richard Noggin (RichardNoggin@hockeymail.com), August 17, 1999.

bhudda may have been a really nice-guy,but did he RISE FROM-THE-DEAD?? i hate to bust your=bubble,but on that great-dat of judgement=bhudda will fall on his knee,s & confess' that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD.

-- oh-well, (dogs@zianet.com), August 17, 1999.

AH--- GENTLEMEN-------

I have NO PROBLEM with the posting back and forth that has happened on this and other threads, as I kind of enjoy the peace that Richard and ZenMaster provide. I also have no problem with Al and his points (ifyou can't see them, that is a problem of YOUR OWN sight) as he has grown on me, not unlike DEitEr or a comfortable fungus. But you are approaching that removal threshold as you start to throw firebombs at each other's teleology and theology. CAREFUL!!

Da Mad DELETER, who took a weekend off, and.......

C

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), August 17, 1999.

Zen Buddhism", commonly called "Zen," developed from Buddhism which originated in India around 600 BC. As Buddhism gained popularity and moved eastward through China and to Japan, local philosophies and religions, notably Taoism (pronounced "Daoism"), were mingled together with Buddhism. New schools were formed in China, such as "Chan", which became "Zen" in Japan. Retaining the original message of the Buddha, stress was put on meditative practice, downplaying rational thought and the study of scripture and ritual.

The keystone of Buddhism is the "Four Noble Truths:"

Existence is suffering.

Our typical road in life is to maximize pleasure and minimize unpleasantries, but we often find that eliminating all pain and discomfort is not possible. Around 600 B.C., a prince in India named Siddhartha Guatama lived a sheltered life in a palace. As the story goes, Prince Siddhartha saw sickness, pain, and death one day as he snuck a peek at the world outside the palace. The Prince decided to search for the cause of such suffering in the world, as well as a cure. Suffering is caused by desires and attachments.

We all start forming attachments to things before the day we are born. The moment we are separated from these things, we feel loss, anxiety, sadness. We develop cravings for things: wealth, prestige, cars. Cravings and desires create suffering if not met. Even when we possess the items, we covet them and protect them jealously for fear of losing them (and these don't have to be tangible things- pride, status, even happiness itself are included). The world is an ever- changing, impermanent place- the more things we cling to, the more we lose when they change or go away. There is another aspect to attachment- that is, the way certain attributes are unnaturally associated with things. For example, advertising companies try associate beer with "sexy," "sophisticated," or "something friends share." We are constantly fooling ourselves with these types of false perceptions of the world. Before reading on, think about the answer to this question: What comes to mind when you think of a McDonald's Big Mac?

What are you saying!

Often a Zen master would pass on certain items to his successor, such as a robe, bowl or sutra (scripture book) as representative proof. However, the transmission of the teaching is truly a matter of a heart to heart understanding, not a formal token or ritual. Master Shoju reminded us of that:

Zen master Mu-nan had one successor, Shoju. "I am an old man, Shoju, and as for as I can see, you will be the only one to pass on my teaching. This book has been passed down for seven generation of masters. I have added many points myself concerning my understanding of the Way. Please take this valuable book as a symbol of your successorship." "If it is so important," Shoju replied, "then you should keep it. I received your teaching without writing and am satisfied." "Even so, please take this so all can understand your position. Here." As soon as Mu-nan had placed the book in Shoju's hands, he immediately cast it into a flaming brazier. He felt no need for such possessions. Mu-nan became angry for the first time in his life and demanded, "What are you doing!" Shoju shouted without anger, "What are you saying!"

Did you consider the word that starts with an "h?" My guess is that you thought about the taste, color of the wrapper, Ronald, children or jingles before you thought about the bun and patty, which is what the Big Mac really is. It's not probable that harm will come from associating a Big Mac with ketchup stains on your car seat, but sometimes these unconscious associations are harmful. In the classic movie, Twelve Angry Men, a juror has a steadfast, opinion that the young defendant is guilty of murdering his father. The juror curses and gets mad, makes excuses and gives illogical explanations for his stance. After repeated pressure by the other jurors, he finally breaks through a wall of repressed anger and finds that his disdain for the boy is rooted in his poor relationship with his own son. This type of "association" will be further discussed in the "Zen Psychology" section. Prince Guatama, in seeing how attachments lead to suffering, renounced all physical attachments: his wealth, his title, even his family, and went out into the world to find an end to all attachments. There is a way to end worldly suffering.

Siddhartha wandered around for many years, alone or with the sadhus (Hindu holy men) who also lead meager lives. Through meditation, he was finally able to rid himself of all attachments to the world, in the experience called "satori" (awakening or enlightenment). The way to end all worldly suffering is to follow the "Eightfold Path" to satori.

The "Eightfold Path" is the code of moral conduct for Buddhists to follow. Following the Path helps to clear the mind and body of the "dust" of the world, being the attachments and desires that keep us suffering and away from satori. As we gain insight, the path becomes easier and more natural to follow. Zen emphasizes the 8th part of the path, "right concentration," or on the meditative aspect of the Path, but all parts are intertwined together. What is "Satori?"

Satori ("Samadhi" in Sanskrit) translates as "Enlightening" or "Awakening." It is the moment when one's view of reality is stripped of all attachments and ignorance, and things are seen as their true selves. The unconscious becomes one with the conscious, so never do you have unseen forces controlling your moods, dislikes, or actions. This state is called "Nirvana" in Sanskrit, but it is not to be mistaken for a higher plane of existence or state of mind. The only thing that changes during satori is your perception of the world. Some claim the path to satori is a gradual one, some claim a sudden experience, and others say true Nirvana cannot truly be reached. What are called "breakthroughs," "peak experiences," "symbolic growth experiences," and "moments of clarity" in psychology and pop culture are debatably examples of "mini-awakenings." These usually are characterized by a sudden realization about a facet of a person's life. They can be fleeting, but usually, in some way, the person is changed for life. Usually it happens after prolonged concentration on an issue or problem, and/or during a time of high stress or anxiety. These are the conditions that Zen monks and nuns live under, focusing on a koan (sort of an illogical riddle) or one's breath in one's waking and meditative times. Satori is like these small breakthroughs, but culminates as insight into every aspect of life, and certainly existence. Part of the problem of explaining Zen is that it doesn't really have a definition in the usual sense. Zen is a method, an action, not an ethereal matter floating through the universe or a spirit which manifests itself in all material things. Trying to explain satori is like trying to explain a flavor- you can explain the flavor as "tasting like this or that," but a person can never understand the taste until she tries it for herself. And when she does, she may describe the taste differently from you. If Zen (the Eightfold Path, meditation, the sutra scriptures, etc.) is explaining the "flavor" of enlightenment, satori is tasting

-- Richard Noggin (RichardNoggin@hockeymail.com), August 17, 1999.

Out of respect for you Chuck, I will stop posting my views when it comes to Zen.

-- Richard Noggin (RichardNoggin@hockeymail.com), August 17, 1999.

thank,s for the warning chuck.seem,s like i,m a magnet; for bro.zen at least mine ain,t as long, oh well time will-tell.i,m sure glad JESUS didn,t waste words. i must admit alot of the zen stuff,sound,s like some of jesus word,s=such as denying-self.& not getting caught-up in materialism=interesting.self-discipline is good, but it,s not the nth-of the nth.like i said=no disrespect intended.did bhudda die for the sins of the WORLD? DID HE RISE-AGAIN.is he coming-again?are miracles done in his=NAME?THERE IS A PATH THAT=seem,s right.

-- i hear ya, (dogs@zianet.com), August 17, 1999.

Richard: Before Buddha is the TAO. How unverbose and straight forward.

-- oneserene (oneserene@webtv.net), August 17, 1999.

It's a miracle, alright, how they all get transformed while sitting in jail! Trying to save their sorry *ss is what it is.

-- sue (deco100@aol.com), August 17, 1999.

hey the man,s got 3 life sentances,he ,s never gonna see daylight. besides i can,t see into his heart,can=you??

-- i ain,t his judge. (dogs@zianet.com), August 17, 1999.

Al-d has been banned from Pastor Chris's site for some time. They seem to have higher standards over there and chased this fool away. You see, Mr. Driscol is somewhat of a scumbag that wouldn't pay his gambling debts and took the 'boys' to court for attempting to collect. The story is that he won a settlement of $11 million dollars (guess they were asking real hard for the money owed) but has yet to see a penny of it. He and his wife (Marianne) were pleading for the folks on Pastor Chris's site to pray for them....to no avail. He is giving the hillbilly's of the world a bad name, not to mention the honest Christians of the world. Unfortunately, he has developed somewhat of a following on this forum and continues to pollute the threads at will. Kind of like waiting to see what the village idiot will do next....

-- (incase@u.missedit), August 18, 1999.

Prayer Request from AL DRISCOL, CATT@ZIANET.COM on 9/11/98 [FROM>> AL & MARIANNE DRISCOL, IN 1995 A [JURY] IN EL-PASO TX.AWARDED- -US 11 MILLION $$$ IN [LANDMARK-CASE] PLEASE-PRAY [LORD] WILL GIVE-US HELP & FAVOR--WITH-APPEALS-COURT, WE FEEL ''LORD'' GAVE-US THIS-- JUDGEMENT TO BLESS--OTHERS. The link http://www.netchurch.com/pandp_active.asp

-- (incase@u.missedit), August 18, 1999.