GOTCHA TA LOOK!!! But SERIOUSLY, folks, I REALLY would like you to stop me from HAVING to delete again. The best (but not the only) way to do this is to share with you what has sort of become a shared but not fully articulated view of where this forum is and/or needs to be heading.
As we are all aware, we are under 150 days to go until the start of the singularity. Whether we are willing to think in these trerms or not, we are in or are fast approaching the "end game" so far as all of the rhetoric, preparation and such is concerned. This is apparent to anyone who reads the forum. The 'BITR' folks are getting more adamant, the Doombrood (tm) is getting more strident, the GI/DGI/DWGI/RGI discussion swirls even faster. We have fatuous predictions from here, flatulant predictions from there, doomist predictions, sunshine predictions, EVERYBODY has an opinion, few are willing to adjust.
The debate has, unfortunately polarized into "Bumpo In the Road" and TEOTWAWKI/INFOMAGIC (dunno if Natty cares so it should be "Bump in..."). The REASONED approach, something Critt Jarvis used to try to define would be a middle ground somewhere between the two poles. In my not so limited experience (and believe me I wish my experience WERE more limited), when people start to discuss the future,and the discussion becomes 2 options or 2 poles, the actual event is somewhere in the middle ("When you have only 2 options, choose the third" [I'lll let Halyx attribute that one]).
So, where do I want the forum to be heading before I kick over the traces and say "Here's your dam@@d keys back, MA'AM!" "And good effing riddance!!"??? Hmm??? I would like to see the forum a place where, both extremes would be acknowledged as just that extreme, and the strident proponents of each relegated to the margins of the discussion. I would like this to be a place where one can come to get the breaking news on Y2K, with the usual analyses by both BITR and Darker camps, as well as some prep information for those who have it to offer. I would like people to be comfortable in posting breaking news, like tornadoes, power outages over a large area, ice storms, Chinese attacks on Quemoy or Matsu, or the Spratley Islands. These types of events should be considered welcome here because they can hold up a mirror to us, show us the backs of our heads, and show us what is under the vinear of civilization. They can show us by what a slender thread hangs world peace, neighborhood peace and personal quiet.
I would like to see this forum return to being a place where we can thrash out our understanding of the times to come. A place where you can champion almost ANY opinion on the coming times (well, ALMOST any, as I REFUSE to consider green men in charge...) without being dismembered, spitted, and roast over a slow fire. Without being labeled a moron, or some other clinical term which escaped to the population and got corrupted.
I'd like to see it return to being a cyber kitchen table, a cyber potbelly stove in the small town cyber postoffice, or a cyber cracker barrel in the general store here in Cyberville. Hell, those discussions got rowdy, rough, however you want to describe it.

[not a real digression, but my bride and I "inherited" the kitchen table from her mom's as things changed for her family. It's a picnic table, because they had 10 or so kids at one time or another. Anyway, that table has some interesting nicks and gouges in it, right about where someone might have had his or her hands if the table had been used for the neighborhood pinochle game. Family legend has it that the nicks are from disputes over the fairness or quality of the deal. Said complaints being submitted at the point of an edged tool. The point to the digression is that I may have a different definition of civil than many folks. Kinda like the basketball ref in the State Title game who lets the kids PLAY instead of calling every nitpicky foul, but STILL remains in control of the game and prevents actual fisticuffs from breaking out. /digression]

I guess what I'm struggling for is to say that over the past couple weeks, I have seen an improvement in the quality of what goes on here (I'd HARDLY call it debate, or discussion YET, but we're on the way) and I wanted to congratulate you folks, and to suggest that we have but taken the first step in a long journey toward open discussion. I am truly surprised at the limited quantity of intervention that I have had to provide. This speaks as much to all of YOU making the effort to keep things on a factual/opinion basis and not on a [picture 2 cyber "warriors" standing opposite each other, fingers FIRMLY placed in their ears screaming "MORON! IDIOT! A$$H)L3!!" at each other. Best if you picture them as slightly paunchy, somewhat overweight, mid 40's guys (LOL "Watch that buster, I resemble that remark".."Pipe down Charlie")] basis. At any rate, thank you all for your attempts, and understand that the bar has been raised another notch or two towards the recivilization of the forum. The Mad Deleter HALP SOMEBODY STOP ME BEFORE I........ But MAAA-AA it fits my hand so well, and feels like my Glock... Why CAN'T I go out deleting tonight.... Chuck


IF YA NEED SOME OF THESE, HELP YOURSELF, IF YA FIND EXTRAS, PUT EM HERE

C abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ ,,,...'''"""??!!;;::(())[[]]

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), August 13, 1999

Answers

"So, where do I want the forum to be heading before I kick over the traces and say "Here's your dam@@d keys back, MA'AM!" "And good effing riddance!!"???"

You don't get to escape that easily, Chuck!

;-D

My personal preferences? Discussions, news, research, help, community--on-topic or off--but preferably related (somehow)... sans trolls and flames.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), August 13, 1999.

I already promised to play nice Chuck, so don't take away my Crayolas yet.

-- (Doomers@Suck.com), August 13, 1999.

I'm with Chuck. Let's be civil. And if one sub-human demonstrates a lack of civility towards you, don't assume every polly/doomer agrees and flame back at the whole other side. Just ignore the insect.

Semper civilus

Keep you...

-- eyes_open (best@wishes.net), August 13, 1999.

HuH?????? WhaT WaS THaT All ABoUT??????

INfiDEL!!!!!!

-- Dieter (questions@toask.com), August 13, 1999.

I have to admit you have kept it down to a loud roar the last little while. Keep trying, maybe you will get there. Remember the nutty post where I answered that if that was true I was King of the World?

Doomer - superscript in the email text? Cute - Greenspun seems to have overlooked something.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), August 13, 1999.

That's pretty funny, Chuck!

I've also noticed the change in attitude on the forum in the last few weeks, though the past couple of days, there's been an upsurge in shrillness. Generally, it seems to be a bit more civil than it has at other times. These things go in waves.

It's a fairly slow news period, people are away, out having fun, etc. I have a feeling that after Labor Day, the forum will evolve into something different yet again. There will probably be a new wave of people "discovering" this issue, and wanting to discuss it for the first time. I would think that it would behoove everyone, on both sides and in the middle, to be civil towards these folks when they get here. Some of us have been at this for quite a while now, and we need to remember that most people haven't.

My prediction: After Labor Day, "Server Too Busy..." is going to be a constant companion to forum regulars...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), August 13, 1999.

Chuck:

Kudos for deleting Jeremy's thread this morning. I encourage you to be quicker on the draw. The personal attacks and flaming are unnecessary and counterproductive. Thanks for 'carrying out the garbage' for us. And by the way, I try to avoid getting personal unless attacked, and promise to try to do so in the future. :)

-- cynic (cynic@skeptic.com), August 13, 1999.

Luckily this isn't the only forum in the world...

-- (Doomers@Suck.com), August 13, 1999.

Wow, just when you think it's safe to go back into the woods...Dieter comes out to play :) Dieter, do you live anywhere near Burkitsville?

Chuck, ^5! You're doing an incredible job!!!

(I found a #, a 6 and a 5 over here---------------------------->>> I'm not sure where to put them. Heck, I'm not even sure what that last one is! Oh, btw, I think D.S. dropped an extra  too, where is the lost and found?)

Diane, you're missed. I think a focus on community would be excellent!

Thanks to you both.

Mike

===================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), August 13, 1999.

Chuck

Got something on your mind?

One thing to be said is that I have not heard anyone attacking the way you are handling the forum. (Either that or the critics get deleted pretty fast).

One thing though, after September there is going to be alot more folks looking for information on the problem and what they could possibly do about it. The last thing they need to see is ranting and raving about stuff that will never happen and arguments that started months ago between pictureless folks rattling on their keyboards, ego and objectives that are almost teenage in origin.

There has to be an understanding that adults are responsible for their own actions, people are going to have to make choices about how they react to the "comming times" or the "singularity" (I like that :o)

So maybe we have to look in the mirror and have an honest talk with oneself if "we" are acting like impartial adults or kids with an attitude.

Also if I may interject something here. We are on a international forum. The US contingent of course is all powerful here just as in the world view. But the rest of us could have particular problems that are not present in the US. And in the reverse view the US has problems that doesn't have anything to do with Y2K or with others in contries around the world.

I am hoping that the US folk will realize that you are international embassadors for your country. Y2K is most definitly a global problem.

Oh and I can't beleive the volume on this forum! Once again it is getting harder to keep up with all the information. This has to be a good thing.

Keep up the good work Chuck! I am sure that Diane is enjoying the break :o)

-- Brian (imager@home.com), August 13, 1999.

The debate has, unfortunately polarized into "Bump In the Road" and TEOTWAWKI/INFOMAGIC. The REASONED approach, something Critt Jarvis used to try to define would be a middle ground somewhere between the two poles. In my not so limited experience, when people start to discuss the future, and the discussion becomes 2 options or 2 poles, the actual event is somewhere in the middle.

My view is that it will be one of the two extremes, but not in the middle. I see no room for middle ground. Either everything holds with minor annoyances/disruptions (BITR), or it doesn't (TEOTWAWKI). I can't see a '5' happening, because if it's that bad it will escalate upwards. If it doesn't escalate up, then it was probably closer to a '1' or '2' to begin with.

-- Jim (x@x.x), August 13, 1999.

Go to Hell, Kenneth Starr. You're the kind of person that wants to take away our constitutional rights to own a gun just because a few idiots abuse this privelege.

Remember what Mommy taught you - sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

-- @ (@@@.@), August 13, 1999.

I am grateful for people like yourself who are able to manage such a forum! Not only is it a difficult responsibility but it is a thankless job. I am grateful that there are folks like yourself and Diane who consider this is an important moment in our history deserving attention to the issues at hand. After all, each and every one of us is part of history in the making!

Grace

-- Carolyn Grace (grace17@pacbell.net), August 13, 1999.

What everyone needs is 1. Reports of news that is or may be related 2. Research that they may choose from (valid, links, etc.) 3. Comments, opinions, some strong. 4. A way to send votes for when a post is too vile to keep on the board.

I read posts that may have value, I hardly ever get worthy value out of extreme ranting.

-- Living in (the@real.world), August 13, 1999.

Brian: An international forum??? Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! Damn my paraochialism, anyway. I forgot that and just said something unfortunate about the French, over at the "Who Should We Bomb Next" thread. Oh well...they know they're cultural elitists...

Chuck: I've been lurking for about a month (actually, annoying my wife, by reading over her shoulder, would be more accurate), and posting for about a week. I just wanted to say, that I think you're doing a fine job. There's a sharp difference between opinion and fact, but sometimes the former stirs the cranial juices just as much as the latter. I find that even the ones who think the Grey/Green Men are in charge, provide food for thought...besides I've seen whackier things come to pass. Who could have predicted Beanie Babies?

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), August 13, 1999.

Honest, Chuck, I tried to be good the last couple of weeks, but the last couple of days I just could not hold back any longer. And what the heck else do you call someone, if they repeatedly ask the same question again, just slightly re-phrased, over a course of MONTHS? How do you refrain from calling a spot a spot as it were -- I mean, if some people are not just "dumb", they must surely be brain dead. OR, more than likely, just engaging in a more "advanced" state of troll warfare.

Un-civil remarks at least have the excuse of being at the end of one's rope. Deliberately inflammatory posts designed to provoke and bring out those remarks is another story.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 13, 1999.

King of Spain:

You said: "And what the heck else do you call someone, if they repeatedly ask the same question again, just slightly re-phrased, over a course of MONTHS? How do you refrain from calling a spot a spot as it were -- I mean, if some people are not just "dumb", they must surely be brain dead. OR, more than likely, just engaging in a more "advanced" state of troll warfare."

Would this question resemble "______,do you like to mudwrestle?" or "______are you receiving renumeration to post on this forum?"

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), August 13, 1999.

Anita: Touche! (with a thingy on the "e")

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 15, 1999.

Chuck, some words of wisdom about the opposing ends of the spectrum.

"The biggest cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid people are so sure about things and the intelligent folks are so full of doubts."

Bertram Russell

-- MoVe Immediate (MVI@yepimhere.com), August 15, 1999.

Chuck --

Humor. Creativity. Energy.

We're VERY lucky to have you, going into September, 1999!

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), August 15, 1999.