looking for comet lee--Is Nostradamus a religion?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Anyone seen a loose comet today? I went outside to see the eclipse and the comet, but we were having a lightning storm, so I couldn't see either one.

Of course, I live on the west coast of the us, so that might be part of the problem. Did anyone over in Great Britain see the comet?

And is believing the predictions by Nostradamus a form of religion?


-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 11, 1999


Absolutely. Adherents squabble over translations and the placement of commas just like every other religion. There are even devotees of individual translators and those who look for meaning in the alliterations and symbolism-I once read a lengthy discourse on why a certain prophecy obviously meant THIS rather than that because the "rose" mentioned would be fully in bloom at the time that the prophecy was scheduled and thus couldn't mean what everyone else thought. Then there are those who concentrate on French. 17th Century French differs, obviously from modern French. But it also has regional variants and geographical influences. I put it somewhere between a cult religion and a bunch of rabid stamp collectors.

-- Greg Lawrence (greg@speakeasy.org), August 11, 1999.

Apparently, of late the Japanese have been totally obsessed with the predictions.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWAyne@aol.com), August 11, 1999.

Well, yeah, but did comet lee appear "from behind the eclipped sun?"


-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 11, 1999.

The "eclipped" sun is a modern American English variation of the older word "eclipsed".

An "eclipped" sun is when a web designer alters a digitized solar image to produce the desired effect.

Now you know...

-- Randolph (dinosaur@williams-net.com), August 11, 1999.

IMHO terming someone giving credence in Nostradamus' predictions (to the point of changing their behavior based on them) would most usefully be termed superstition. Any system of belief that involves considerable amount of circular reasoning and/or magical thinking could likely qualify. Carl Sagan wrote a really good piece on logical fallacies before he died that I read on a site somewhere on the Web a few months ago. (Do not remember where I saw it). Anyone who finds it, please post it, as it is a good summary of common flaws in thinking, probably fairly applicable to understanding DWGI mental activities at this time.

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com (newly updated)

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), August 11, 1999.

Interesting that Mr. Segan would write about logical falacies. Did anyone here witness the solar eclipse either live, on tv or over the net

-- Typhonblue (typhonblue@hotmail.com), August 11, 1999.

Religion? In the time when Nostradamus was alive he correspond with the King and the church but they didn't worship him.

Remember, this guy didn't live in a time of instant news like we do today.

Also, should you ever put your faith in a psychic?

This should help you focus a little more:

From sightings.com

What does the famous '1999' prophecy (X.72) say?

Century 10, Quatrain 72 "L'an mil neuf cens nonante neuf sept mois, Du ciel viendra vn grand Roy deffraieur: Resusciter le grand Roy d'Angolmois, Auant apres Mars regner par bon-heur."


John Hogue (Nostradamus and the Millennium): "In the year 1999 and seven months The Great King of Terror will come from the Sky He will ressurect Ghengis Khan Before and after war rules happily"

Erika Cheetham (The Final Prophecies of Nostradamus): "In the year 1999, and seven months from the sky will come the great King of Terror. He will bring to life the great king of the Mongols. Before and after war reigns happily"

Leoni (source: Michael Jordan (Nostradamus and the new millennium): "In July 1999, a great and terrifying ruler will come from the skies and revive the great king of the Angoulmois before and after which Mars will rule with good fortune."

Stefan Palus (Nostradamus 2000): "The year 1999, the seventh month, From the sky will come a great King of Terror: Resuscitating the great King of the Mongols, Before and after Mars to reign happily."

Alef (A.P.N. newsgroup): The year nine hundred ninety nine seven month, From sky will come one grand King of fright: Resurrect the grand King of Angolmois, Before after Mars reign by good-luck.

It should be noted there is some small confusion over the presence of an apostrophe and one or two commentators have presented a contrary translation for line two. For example:

Peter Lemesurier (A.P.N. Alternate FAQ) "When 1999 is seven months o'er Shall Heaven's great Ruler, anxious to appease, Stir up the Mongol-Lombard king once more And war reign haply where it once did cease."

Two distinguished posters, with exemplary French knowledge, present the counter argument to this case:

Alef (a.p.n) comments "There is no such word as ( deffrayeur )in the French language. However the said word, is a look alike of the word ( defrayer ) which some have for the sake of supporting a story invented, a word which is not in the dictionary ( defraie ) and given it a logical meaning. Than pushing this idea to the limit of argumentation. However the word ( effrayeur ) is found as such and is clearly expressing a ( fright ) the ( d' ) is a preposition to explicit the connection between the previous word and the following ( d' ) for " of " in this case. In English we say ' of fright'. " He further comments on the issue of apostrophe/ no apostrophe as follows:

"...the word still means ( fright ). Paying a dept write with only one ( f ) as ( defraie ). and the verbs in this case is not in French dictionaries, write as ( defrayer ) to defray, is been the subject of a dept pay off. The word ( defray ) is not in context with the text of quatrain 10.72. The word can be found in the complete guide to conjugation 12000 French verbs By Bescherelle Hurtubise hmn."

Claude Latremouille (a.p.n), although considering the quatrains were written to be decrypted not interpreted, agrees that the "deffraieur" means "d'effraieur". He notes on this matter: 'The two French words "de effraieur" become "d'effraieur" and are printed as "deffraieur" in X-72. They mean "of great fear". In modern French, they would be written: "de frayeur".(another justification: Nostradamus uses "l effrayeur" in the Letter to Henry and never uses "le deffraieur" to his knowledge).'

So, it is fair to say that the "King of Terror/ fright/ great fear" is the overall consensus view which has stood the test of time and is shared by most commentators.

What interpretations have been put forward?

Once the correct translation has been established, we next look at the meaning and possible interpretation. We have some event occurring in the seventh month of 1999 (line 1). Firstly, the seventh month may mean:

1. July

2. July 14th - Aug 13th (seventh month in Nostradamus' Julian calendar)

3. September (sept = seven in French)

4. The seventh month in the Hebrew calendar, Ethanim--"Tishri" in the Hebrew civil calendar--which begins September 11, 1999 and runs to Sunday, October 10 (till sunset).

This event will cause great terror and come from the sky (line 2). It's effect is to revive or bring to prominence an empire/ kingdom in the East (line 3). War will be underway BEFORE and AFTER (line 4). So what is this 'King Of Terror'? Some proposed candidates include a nuclear exchange, an air attack, an alien landing, the Cassini space Probe crashing etc.

Some deep thinking may reveal a little more.

Something 'great' comes from the sky. It is visible for a long enough period of time to create terror (terror take time to develop, unlike fear). The degree and visibility of the event seem to rule out a man-made source, except for nuclear war. However, in the case of nuclear war there would be many 'Kings' (nuclear missiles) and not just one. A Cassini probe crash may also appear to fit the bill - yet it would hardly have time to promote fear, it would simply crash with no warning (and if there were such a warning counter measures could be taken). Both are possibilities, but is there anything else?

Is there a connection with the total solar eclipse visible throughout much of Europe this year? This eclipse occurs on the 11th August, hitting the south-western coast of England at 11.11 am and proceeding through France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria, Hungary, Yugoslavia and Romania, Bugaria, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and India (many other areas will see a Partial Eclipse including eastern North America). The 11th August falls within the seventh month according to the Julian calendar.

How might one interpretation involve a asteroid impact?

A possibility (originally proposed in Charles Berlitz in 'Doomsday 1999 AD' (1981) and taken up by Stefan Paulus in 'Nostradamus 2000 - who will survive' (1996)) is that the King of Terror refers to a comet/ asteroid which will hit the earth causing devastation and a shift of the east/west power balance, enabling the rise of the 3rd Antichrist. Heavenly bodies have been treated in an anthropomorphic fashion throughout history, hence the reference to a King. Most of the rest of this document will explore this possibility.

When would the asteroid first be visible?

Quatrain III.34

Quand le deffaut du Soleil lors sera Sur le plein iour le monstre sera veu: Tout autrement on l'interpretera, Cherte' n'a garde nul n'y aura pourueu.

When the eclipse of the Sun will then be, In broad daylight the monster will be seen Everyone will differ on the interpretation, High price unguarded: none will have prepared.

During the total solar eclipse of August 11th a comet will be seen which is approaching Earth from behind the sun. It will have been invisible upto this point, and will be after (the same happened in 1948 when comet 1948 XI was discovered). People will argue over the significance. Is it a sign (line 3)? Panic buying will ensue (line 4).

What additional justification is there for the hypothesis that this 'monster' is a comet? Johannes Hevelius' book, Cometographia, published in Gdansk (formally Danzig) in 1668, includes drawings of several different cometry forms seen between 1577 and 1652, and several are labelled 'monstriferous'. Two of these comets referred to in such a way have drawings which indicate disconnected gaps in their tails indicating fragmentary cometry pieces.

Hence, Nostradamus is warning this comet will carry one or more asteroids in it's tail, and although the comet itself will miss the earth one of these asteroids will impact.

Are there any quatrains describing the comets approach?


Quatrain V.32 (Cheetham)

When all is good and all abundance, in the Sun and Moon its ruin approaches. It comes from heaven as you boast of your fortune, in the same state as the seventh rock.

Line 1: Conditions are good (consider from Nostradamus' view).

Line 2: From the heavens some ruin approaches.

Line 3: It comes from deep space as many seem content.

Line 4: the comet itself is not the cause, but is in the same 'state' (i.e. appearing together) as the rock. the seven connection relates to the seventh month in X.72.

Quatrain II.46 (Cheetham)

Apres grat troche humain plus grad s'appreste Le grand moteur les siecles renouuelle Pluye, sang, laict, famine, fer & peste, Au ciel veu feu, courant longue estincelle.

After great misery for mankind an even greater one approaches, when the great cycle of the centuries is renewed. It will rain blood, milk, famine, war and disease. In the sky will be seen a fire, dragging a tail of sparks.

Line 1: may refer to the world wars of the century.

Line 2: the millennium is renewed.

Line 3 and 4: the events which will accompany the comet.

Quatrain II.41

(Paulus) The great star for seven days will burn, The cloud will cause two suns to appear: The big mastiff all night will howl, When the great pontiff changes countries.

(Cheetham) The great star will burn for seven days and the cloud will make the sun appear double. The large mastiff will howl all night when the great pontiff changes his abode.

Line 1 & 2: The great star is a comet, and the cloud the coma. The comet will burn so brightly in the sky it appears that we have two suns. (Alternative translation :'The great star for September days will burn'). Since it is visible at the same time as the sun (a daylight comet such as the Great Daylight Comet of 1910) we can conclude it approaches from the sun's sector of the sky. It's brightness indicates a close approach.

Line 3: Nostradamian scholars usually identify the mastiff as representing Britain - so we have a period of national distress in Britain.

Line 4: Events necessitate the Papacy's relocation from Italy. Quatrain VI.6

(Paulus) There will appear towards the North, Not far from Cancer the bearded star: Susa, Siena, Boeotia, Eretria, The great one of Rome will die, the night over.

Line 1: comet more visible from Northen hemisphere

Line 2: Aug 99 sun will be nearly out of Cancer and moving into Leo, so comet is approaching Earth from behind the sun.

Line 3: Seismically active areas

Line 4: Pope will die, along with many.

A6) How big is the asteroid?

Quatrain I.69

La grande mortagne ronde de sept stades, Apres paix, gueere, faim, inondation, Roulera loin abimant grands contrades, Memes antiques, et grande fondation.

The great mountain round of seven stadia, Afterwards peace, war, famine, flood, It will roll far away sinking great countries, Even antiquities, and great foundation.

Line 1: What type of mountain is round? A good reference here is to the burning mountain of Revelations which John describes as being thrown into the oceans - a clear reference to an asteroid or comet [Revelations 8:8]. So it appears we have a meteor or asteroid which AFTER (i.e. the hit) causes war, famines, floods, great countries to be sunk. Seven stadia equals 4,250 feet (a stadion in Greek measurement was 607 feet). So, if this is the circumference (dividing by Pi) gives the diameter - ~1350 feet, slightly more than a quarter of a mile.

Such an asteroid (given an oceanic impact, as line 3 intimates) would impact with the energy of 130,000 Hiroshima-sized bombs (assumptions: perfect sphere, mainly stony asteroid with density 2g per cubic centimetre, 60 km/sec impact speed - see <#palusPaulus for full calculation). As a comparison, this is approximately 600 times the energy of the Tunguska event over Siberia in 1908. However, the impact of 65 million years ago in the Yucatan Peninsula, was likely a body of approximately 6 miles in diameter - having 50,000 times more energy than the postulated asteroid.

As a side note, in his letter to the Governor of Provence concerning the Salon meteorite of 1554 Nostradamus: * Refers to the Meteorite/ comet as 'terrifying' 3 times (cf. X.72).* Uses the 'stadium' measure to indicate breadth in the sky. This refutes some authors insistence that the use of the Greek Stadia MUST indicate Mount Olympus in I.69.

A7) Which quatrains describe the impact and immediate consequences?

Quatrain II.43

(Paulus) During the bearded star's appearance, The three great princes will be made enemies: Hit from the sky, peace earth trembling, Pau, Tiber overflowing, serpent on the brink placed.

(Cheetham) During the appearance of the bearded star, the three great princes will be made enemies. The tremulous peace on earth will be struck from the skies; the Po, the winding Tiber, a serpent on the shore

Line 1: Comets were called bearded stars.

Line 2: Three great nations - only 3 possible major powers are USA, China and Russia. So they are possible candidates

Line 3: A strike from the sky shatters peace (asteroid in comets tail)

Line 4: Earthquakes in Italy/ France resulting from impact causing flooding.

Quatrain II.70

(Cheetham) The arrow from heaven will make it's journey. Dead while speaking; a great execution. The stone in the tree, the pond nation brought down. The rumour of a human monster, purge and expiation.

Line 1: The asteroid approaches from the heavens like an arrow.

Line 2: The death toll of the impact - people die unexpectedly.

Line 3: stone is the asteroid, pond nation probably England/ Britain (see next quatrain)

Line 4: May possibly refer to the Anti- Christ

Quatrain II.62

Mabus will soon die and there will happen a dreadful destruction of people and animals. Suddenly, vengeance will appear, a hundred hands, thirst and hunger, when the comet passes.

Line 1: The identity of Mabus is still unclear. He is not necessarily the AntiChrist. One strong candidate is Saddam Hussein (invert his first name in a mirror, by which he is universally known).

Line 2: The effects of the impact

Line 3: Note the use of suddenly

Line 4: The comet PASSING is the cause of the turmoil and misery.

Quatrain III.70

(Cheetham) The whole of Great Britain, including England, will be covered by very deep floods. The new league in Ausonne will declare war so that they will ally against them.

Line 1 & 2: Continuing the theme, Britain will suffer flooding from the impact.

Line 2 & 4: Italy (Ausonne in south of Italy, stand for whole) involved in war.

Where would the asteroid strike?

Briefly, the probable location is: Atlantic Ocean, east of Mid-Atlantic Rise (near junction of African and European tectonic plates).

What is the justification? First, a note that the exact location is not specifically given. However, there are several clues.

* Britain seems to be affected especially (II.41, II.70, III.70)

* Italy suffers badly with earthquakes, with the papacy relocating. (II.41)

* Other quatrains (along with Revelations and other sources) indicate oceanic impact (I.69, II.43, letter to Cesar etc.)

* The general trend of the Arab invasian of Europe indicates a weakening of the European powers, especially the western nations.

Another quatrain ties all these points together:

Quatrain IX.31

"The trembling of land at Mortara, Tin St, George half sunk, Peace drowsy the war will awaken, In the temple at Easter abysses open."

Line 1: Mortara in northern Italy, 35 miles SW of Milan (located on African- European plate border).

Line 2: St. George refers to England, also 'Tin' refers to Scilly Islands, off the coast of England, also called Tin Islands Nostradamus is here adding together an earthquake in Italy, and a flooding of half of England (note that England, unlike Scotland and Wales, is mainly near sea level). So the likely ocean for impact is the Atlantic, near the undersea border of the European and African plates, hence setting off quakes on the boundary in Italy and surroundings. The tsunami floods more than half of England.

Line 3: After mankind being fairly drowsy with peace, major war will start up.

Line 4: The following Easter sees another major earthchange.

We should consider, however, that an impact in the Pacific Ocean could also be a possibility. Since Nostradamus wrote from a very Europecentric view, he would concentrate on the effects upon England, Italy, France etc.


Does Nostradamus give any other clues about the eclipse and the asteroid?

Nostradamus gives the signs to watch for in a letter to Henri II of France:

"There will be a solar eclipse more dark and gloomy than any since the creation of the world, except after the death of Christ. And it shall be in the month of October that a great movement of the globe will happen, and it will be such that one will think the gravity of the earth has lost its natural balance and that it will be plunged into the abyss and perpetual blackness of space. There will be portents and signs in the spring, extreme changes, nations overthrown and mighty earthquakes."

Hence, we have a VERY clear description here: Nostradamus evidently considered it important enough to spell out in plain language. That being the case, should we expect one or more quatrains to refer to this sequence of events, and give a clue to the year? YES!

The central marker is X.72. In X.72 the King of Terror event is slated for "The year 1999, the seventh month". Now in Nostradamus' Julian Calendar, the seventh month period runs July 14th - Aug 13th i.e. it includes the date of the eclipse - surely not a coincidence. However, we must also note all possible interpretations of "the seventh month" to give an overall time window of July 1st to October 10th for the "King of Terror" (See A2 for specifics) .

Note also III.34 referring to a "monster" being seen at the time of an eclipse. The spring which is mentioned would seem to be Spring 2000 (since the events are listed Eclipse, October, Spring). The only possible events for spring 1999 were:

* Kosovo conflict (started in Spring)

* Tornadoes of 3/5

* Earthquake South Central Mexico 16/6 6.7 Richter Scale

However, these do not seem to match up to the events described. Note that Spring 2000, includes the event of May 5th 2000, when the new moon aligns with the Earth, Mercury, Mars, Venus, Jupiter and Saturn, a conjunction which only occurs approximately every 6000 years. Some have postulated a pole shift and/ or violent seismic activity at this time (see the work of Gribben and Plagemann, Tomaschek and others). Interestingly, this conjunction was even commented on by Berossus, a Babylonian astrologer who lived more than 2,300 years ago who, as the Roman poet Seneca recounts 300 years later, predicated that an inundation would take place 'when the planets coincided in the sign of Cancer, and be placed that a straight line could pass directly through all their orbs'.

Timeline (1999 - 2000)

July 1st King of Terror window opens

August 11th Total Solar Eclipse

October 10th King of Terror window closes

October Movement of globe etc.

Spring 2000 Portents (May 5th Alignment) Escalation of war. Earthquakes

Now, the October event can only really be explained in two ways:

1. Cataclysmic earthquake(s) (10/11 Richter scale)

2. Pole Shift

(Of course an event which would trigger one or both of these is an asteroid impact)

Nostradamus writes, in a letter of dedication written to his son, Cesar on March 1 1555:

"Before the universal conflagration there shall happen so many inundations that there shall scarce be any land that shall not be covered by water..."

In the same letter he seems to indicate the present millennium as an end to this 'revolution' (or cycle) for humanity:

"We are now in the seventh millinary which ends all and brings us near the eighth which is where the great God shall make an end of this revolution.."

(this figure comes from 5000 years between Biblical Creation and the birth of Christ, and 2000 years since)

He also adds:

"I find that so many deluges and such deep floods shall befall the world before the universal conflagration that there shall be scarcely any land that is not covered by water: and for a long time things shall be such that, were it not for written accounts of peoples and countries, all would be lost. Moreover, both before and after these floods, the rains in many countries shall be so slight, and so much fire and so many meteorites shall fall from the sky, that nothing shall remain that is not consumed. And all this is to occur, in brief, before the final conflagration."

We have a clear and concise description of the passing comets effects here: flooding and possible pole shift (October), as well as the accompanying meteorites as the comets tail is passed through. This to occur before the conflagration (the rise and war of the 3rd Anti Christ).

A date proposed for the impact event by Stefan Paulus is September 23rd. He refers to X.71:

Quatrain X.71

(Paulus) The earth and air will freeze so much water, When they come for Thursday worship: That will be will nor ever be as fair as it was, From the four parts they come to honour it.

No existing religion has it's day of worship on Thursday (Christians on Sunday, Jews on Saturday, Moslems on Friday). Cheetham postulates that perhaps this quatrain refers to the third Antichrist who sets up a new day of worship.

But Paulus interprets:

Line 1: Bitter winters following impact

Line 2: Commemoration of impact day/ obscure reference to Thor (thunderbolt from heaven)

Line 3: Life will not be as luxurious for a time after the impact.

Line 4: All parts of the globe will remember (and have been affected by) the impact.

September 23rd is a Thursday, and about the time of a full moon (see the opening of the sixth seal in Revelations). I

-- for your (info@only.ok?), August 11, 1999.

September 23rd is a Thursday, and about the time of a full moon (see the opening of the sixth seal in Revelations). It should be noted the dating of the impact is a difficult task, and the quatrains and pointers are tenuous at best. Our best time marker is X.72.

*********************end www.sightings.com*************************

so there you have it

-- for your (info@continued.com), August 11, 1999.

Foryour: what a lengthy work you presented us! Whyever have you gone to so much trouble? I'm impressed. Thank you for the info.

Did anyone see the comet during the eclipse?


-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 12, 1999.

The short answer is: no. There was none to be seen.

Sorry guys.

-- jxd29 (jxd29@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.

Kent Steadman's site has some pics up displaying 'an anomaly'....during the eclipse.


-- Shelia (Shelia@active-stream.com), August 12, 1999.

One more time with feeling . .

It was overcast . . but we saw the net result. Darkness.

Very dull. An eclipse. Goody.

The best real scientific info is on SOHO/LASCO and YOHKOH if you care enough to look for them. (and unless NASA is censoring them again *sigh*)

Predictions of doom tied to comets and eclipses are a legacy of sun worship, the lack of scientific understanding, and (probably) originally some simple neanderthal fear of environmental change.

Y2K, although in some ways very similar, is a more modern variant.

The eclipse is over., So is the planetary alignment. The comet is a long way way still. You can safely return to worrying about rollover dates and GPS . . at least they havent totally failed to bring about the end of civilisation yet.

(But give them time)




-- W0lv3r1n3 (W0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

Went over and took a look at some of the eclipse photos, and some of the mass ejection photos. Suddenly realized why a few get nervous about them. They do look big and solid, don't they? Actually, there is more matter in a cup of air than in a dozen cubic miles of one of those things. Think of the gas in a neon sign - it looks like a lot, but really isn't much of anything.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), August 12, 1999.

Paul, two things...recently heard that one of the important things that scientist are researching is the answer to "why are those gases in coronal mass so much hotter than the central mass?" ... also if the solar flares are just so much pretty fluff with no effect, why does NASA put out alerts to FAA so those solid airplanes won't get confused ... why did electric companies spend fortunes protecting their lines from just such emissions? It's not something to add onto one's fuel of paranoia, but it's also not myth or airy mists. These are real physical phenomena with real physical effects for us here on earth; it is for that reason so many scientists study the sun, and multi-million dollar telescopes are poised to observe the flares/mass ejections/and magnetic fluxuations of the sun.

-- Shelia (Shelia@active-stream.com), August 12, 1999.

Of course its a religion! How ELSE could one explain mindless devotion to a man who gets "interpreted" 16 ways from Sunday, has attained a stunning .000% accuracy rating and has folks spending hours of research arguing over individual letters and/or words?

Want some clarity? Go to Amazon.com - do search for "Mask of Nostrodamus" by James Randi. Excellent book BTW.

Got credibility?

-- JCL Jockey (WeThrive@OnStress.com), August 12, 1999.

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